Beware the Haunted Cordless keyboard 291
dr. greenthumb writes "The norwegian newspaper Aftenposten reports about an incident where a computer suddenly seemed to develop a life of its own. A game which the user could not remember using that day suddenly appeared on the screen. When he went over to shut it off the screen displayed a message asking him if he "really wanted to delete this file?"
His computer was receiving keystrokes from another computer (with the same type of wireless keyboard) 150 metres away!
Check out the full story and a follow-up, where experts warns against using wireless keyboards." /me plans to destroy Hemos' sanity...
see why... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:see why... (Score:3, Funny)
On a side note, maybe now my roomate will stop suggesting that we go wireless. I think the stuff sucks mostly because of needing to by batteries for something as basic as a keyboard seems really off the wall to me.
Re:see why... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:see why... (Score:3, Funny)
Forward men, we must kill the noobs!
Errrr (Score:2)
They are wireless to a base connected by cables to the mouse/kb mini-dins or to usb.
That is, unless you have a blootooth-enabled motherboard and a BT kb & mouse
Re:see why... (Score:5, Informative)
Don't place too much confidence in the security of your keyboard, someone might slip one of these [thinkgeek.com] on.
Re:see why... (Score:2)
Batteries (Score:2)
...in the landfill, that is (Score:2)
Re:see why... (Score:2)
Re:see why... (Score:3, Funny)
256 channels??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:256 channels??? (Score:2)
It's probably not any high-powered military strength security or anything, but I'm sure it's sufficient for my purposes.
Re:256 channels??? (Score:2)
I really don't care if someone watches the keystrokes on that machine.
Then again, I use one at work too to write emails and the like. I'm not particularly concerned, if someone thinks the stuff I write about at work is interesting enough to snoop my keyboard for, I pity da foo.
Re:256 channels??? (Score:2)
Re:256 channels??? (Score:2, Insightful)
The "256 channels" isn't for their existing wireless keyboards, it's for their "next generation" models.
A bit shy of cryptographically secure, I'd say. Credit card numbers and personal information aren't all that's at stake; think about your passwords, PGP passphrases, etc.
'across the neighborhood' (Score:2)
Re:'across the neighborhood' (Score:2)
FCC wont let me be (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:FCC wont let me be (Score:2, Informative)
Re:FCC wont let me be (Score:5, Informative)
That means that if your device is hurting my ham radio operations on 146.880 MHz, then I sic the FCC on you, but if I interfere with you, I have primary user rights, so you're outta luck.
The primary, secondary, etc. system is just a pecking order for RF users. You can interfere with those with higer priority all you want, but Part 15 is always at the bottom.
SecurityFocus Discussed This (Score:5, Informative)
150 meters ? (Score:2)
I guess you might have a wireless presentation mouse, i have a gyromouse too, but i find it unlikely that 2 are used in the same office simultaneously.
TV remotes do this too! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:TV remotes do this too! (Score:2, Funny)
Just a little difficult to explain why watching "Secrets of the Third Reich" gave you a hardon.
Re:TV remotes do this too! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:TV remotes do this too! (Score:2)
Or, um, just watching it at all really.
Re:TV remotes do this too! (Score:2)
This is only the beginning (Score:5, Insightful)
I know there are security and other settings that when properly configured will help prevent these mistakes, but just look at the number of unsecured business wireless networks out there that don't even have WEP turned on. Its going to be nasty.
Re:This is only the beginning (Score:3, Interesting)
I would be much more worried to someone "stealing" my emails/contacts from my bluetooth pda, using my cellphone to dial out, and eavesdropping on my conversations, than messing up presentations
Re:This is only the beginning (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is only the beginning (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that, in offices, floors and ceilings are covered with cables for telephone & networking and electricity. Which also helps to cut down on the range.
Re:This is only the beginning (Score:2)
Could someone really get into a device over bluetooth without authorization? Aren't there passwords or signed ID or something that prevent this? Or at least an "OK" key on devices to confirm a link?
It's that sort of thing that convinces me we are a bit ahead of ourselves at all times...
Bluetooth is much better (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bluetooth is much better (Score:4, Funny)
Muwahahahahaha!!!
LUser: "My handheld called me an idiot then shut itself off."
Re:This is only the beginning (Score:2)
Although bluetooth is going to be a wireless technology, it does not compare to anything else we have right now. It is designed with reasonable security in mind.
Think of it like your garage-door opener. The idea is that you type in your password on each of your bluetooth devices, then only devices with the same password can communicate. Now, it is up to the manufacturers to impliment this security however they see fit, but you can still bet it will be far better than our current wireless keyboards, mice, remotes, etc.
That said, I know far too much about batteries (esp. rechargables), to use them unless necessecary... So, I'll be sticking to wired keyboards and mice wherever possible.
Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:5, Funny)
VNC in an office environemnt is a lot of fun with all the Windows users that never notice the little VNC server icon in the 'systray' - right next to their Gator and Bonzi Buddy icons.
I've got the keystrokes down just right
[Ctrl]+[Esc] -> r -> notepad -> Do you want to live, human? -> [F4]
under a second. Leaves the poor things troubeled. Confused. Hungering for the sweet realse of alcohol or a shotgun.
Or just move the mouse subtely when they go to click on somthing.
Of course, don't forget to tell them that it could be Bill Gates fucking with their computer - he's mad that they diden't forward the Windows 95 Beta email. He really wanted to give them $1000 and he's pissed his knickers.
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:2)
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:2)
It *is* quite fun to know the WAN-wide VNC password.
*evil grin*
No, I wasn't responsible for that little detail.
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:3, Interesting)
That's the nice thing about the open VNC apps, you can't run them without some password and if you try to brute force it (at least in tightVNC) it locks you out for x amount of time. Not to mention its free. Yes, I know there's no built in encryption, but that's besides the point.
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:3, Funny)
A frend of mine had @home - I spent a fun-filled evening attaching to pepoples printers and printing out porn, Jack Chick tracks [chick.com], Gynocology Doctor remonder notices for their 8am discharge examination, and a 'turn you fscking Windows sharing off' how-too's. Annoying and yet, informative.
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:2, Funny)
Being the nice guy I am, I made up an instruction sheet detailing how to fix the problem, and printed it to whatever shared printers existed.
It's no wonder that 11 year olds are so able to DoS whatever they want. The truely scary thing is that one of the computers was property of my ISP.
Re:Not quite as fun as VNC (Score:2, Funny)
under a second. Leaves the poor things troubeled. Confused. Hungering for the sweet realse of alcohol or a shotgun.
This reminds me of something, once I was using VNC to connect to my home's win98 machine. You see, my funny little brother was using the computer at the same time, and when he saw all this windows pop-up automatically and shut-down...he literally went nuts. Lo and behold, he thought the computer had a virus and shut the computer off right way.
Boy was I pissed when I lost my VNC connection; right about when I was ready to download "my stuff" queue on fridays.
Latest hacking fad. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Latest hacking fad. (Score:2)
Re:Latest hacking fad. (Score:5, Funny)
Crtl + Alt + Del. Wait a few minutes.
Crtl + Alt + Del. Wait a few minutes.
Laugh maniacally. Repeat.
-SheWhoWalksWithToesLikeCobras
Re:Latest hacking fad. (Score:5, Funny)
Crtl + Alt + Del. Wait a few minutes.
Crtl + Alt + Del. Wait a few minutes.
And this differes from normal use how?
Re:Latest hacking fad. (Score:3, Funny)
Usually when you use windows it's -
Ctrl + Alt +Del. Wait a few minutes.
Crtl + Alt + Del. Wait a few minutes.
Crtl + Alt + Del. Wait a few minutes.
grab an axe, start laughing psychotically, scream "HERE'S JOHNNY!" and tear that piece of crap to shreads.
Re:Latest hacking fad. (Score:3, Funny)
Don't Wxorry about this. (Score:5, Funny)
It wasn't me... (Score:5, Funny)
This is just funny... (Score:2)
The guy has just probably been netbus'ed, back orificed, etc, or someone's playing pranks on him...
Re:This is just funny... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is just funny... (Score:2)
Re:This is just funny... (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, almost any car can be unlocked by a slim jim anyway, so it's not worth worrying about. If you want your car to not be stolen, you need either to disable it (What I do.), or put a lowjack in it.
It's usually not that hard to kept your car from running. If someone tries to steal my car, they'll find the ignition can be hotwired like normal, but for some odd reason it won't shift out of park...and no, I won't tell you why that is.
Re:This is just funny... (Score:2)
According to the manual of my car, I can open some garage doors simply by revving my car's engine. I've not tried it, though.
Re:This is just funny... (Score:2, Informative)
You are a bit to confident:
Re:This is just funny... (Score:2)
Happens toH EmeY all the time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Happens toH EmeY all the time (Score:3, Funny)
Not as bad as the haunted mouse... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've witnessed it twice
It's great fun to explain that the problem is the mouse and not your app to a room full of speculative non-technical people.
Re:Not as bad as the haunted mouse... (Score:2)
Re:Not as bad as the haunted mouse... (Score:2)
I have one of these keyboards (Score:2, Funny)
150 meters? no problem. (Score:5, Funny)
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
One Question (Score:3, Funny)
Re:One Question (Score:3, Funny)
A meter is something that measures - eg water meter, odometer, thermometer. Commonly confused with metre which is the SI unit of distance.
For americans:
A meter is either something that measures (see above) or a weird unit of distance only used by scientists and geeks. It is commonly confused with a metre, which is a conspiracy by the europeans to make everything two thirds smaller. They don't need double garages, because their car fits in one!
Re:One Question (Score:2)
It's metre, you insensitive clod!
Re:One Question (Score:2, Informative)
A meter is a tool for measuring something.
A metre is the length travelled by light in vacuum in 1/299 792 458 of a second. This is approximately the side length of a cube containing one ton (1000 kg) of water. Also, a litre is defined as 0.1^3 metres (same as one kg of water).
The metre,kg and litre are part of the metric system, which is the standard in all civilized and most uncivilized countries.
I've heard tales of a big country across the Atlantic, where they still measure stuff in units like feet, stones, pounds, gallons and grandfathers-length-when-he-died, but I have a hope that we someday will manage to teach them the metric standard, how to read and how to elect sane presidents.
Re:One Question (Score:4, Funny)
You mean metre. It's a measuring unit used by NASA about half the time.
Re:Forget that.... (Score:2)
metre - unit of length
meter - device for measuring
In US english
gee they're the same
I'm using a Wireless keyboard (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, though. I've been using Logitech cordless desktops for years - I've had four in my apartment in close proximity with no problem, and used several at work as well. If a mouse or keyboard syncs with a base unit, it syncs to *that* unit. You can sync multiple devices to a base unit, but I have never seen a device sync to multiple base units. A nice little thing about Logitech's system is that they are all compatable - I like the simple diamond mouse and a keyboard without extra multimedia buttons, and detest the ergonomic "crashing wave" mouse. I can pick and choose my keyboard and mouse, walk over to a computer, hit the sync button and start using it at that terminal. The only problem I've ever had was when the living room computer was next to the multimedia computer and you sometimes synced to the wrong one... so you'd check before typing willy-nilly. :)
Wireless keyboards and mouses are great - I swear by them. I change batteries maybe once every 4 to 6 months, and don't ever have to worry about cables. At home I type in my lap, and can have my phone right against the top of my mousepad, my monitor to the left, and a glass of tea to the right and not worry about the cord catching the phone cord or knocking over the tea.
Now, I *would* like an encrypted signal, sure... but gimmie a break... who the hell cares to capture a few hours of my posting to Slashdot and writing rough drafts of lyrics? Certainly not *my* neighbors. Still, I ssh to my servers, and it would be really nice to have a secure connection to my keyboard. If I was really paranoid, I'd stick my monitors in a Faraday cage to prevent the video signal from being broadcast... everybody is sending *that* out (where everybody = really close to 100% of all computers).
--
Evan
Re:I'm using a Wireless keyboard (Score:2)
--
Evan
hmmm (Score:2)
Has anyone considered selling wireless hardware that would let me generate my own keys. Then let me install my own keys in my own hardware.
Preferrably with the option of selecting the encryption standard.
securing wireless technologies... (Score:5, Funny)
We should also make sure that these "tubes" are shielded in some way - with maybe a suple rubber coating.
Then the wireless signals could travel through this "tube" from the keyboard to the computer - thus rendering them safe from nasty hackers that may be listening.
Re:securing wireless technologies... (Score:2)
Quick! - patent it as a "secure form of wireless telecommunications"
Re:securing wireless technologies... (Score:2)
These things _have_ encryption (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in a dorm situation, so it is very possible kids who are nearbye will interfere/send keystrokes/recieve keystrokes from my computer. However, Logitech promises Cordless freedom through multi-channel digital radio technology with secure encryption [logitech.com].
Loitech assures us that the kind of stuff mentioned in the article cannot happen [logitech.com]:
But I can't find any more details about this technology. So some logitech keyboard have encryption, some don't. I wonder how easy it is to add encryption to these thigns without latency. I don't want to press "a" and wait 2 seconds while the signal decrpyts for the a to appear on my screen. I wonder how simple or complex the encryption is on my cordless access keyboard. Is it a simple XOR like the AIM passwords or is it real encryption? I don't know. But frankly, I am not worried.Bottom Line: zero encryption with 12-but ID codes is good enough for me. If someone really wanted to get at my credit card numbers, they would probobly come into my unlocked room and find my wallet with my credit card in it instead of building a device to pick up the radio signals from my keyboard. Logitech claims a .25% chance of interference, and as long as my keyboard work, that is also good enough for me.
Re:These things _have_ encryption (Score:2)
The only problem with this is that it represents the chance that any TWO such mice have the same 12-bit ID.
Have you ever played that game where, in a room of 25 people or more, you proclaim that at least two people have the exact same birthday? The chance of two people sharing a birthday in a room of 22 people is about 50%. The chances get much greater as the number of people increase. You wouldn't think it, because the probability that any two random people share the same birthday is 1/365. But as you increase the number of people, this goes up greatly.
For your mouse, there are 4096 possible combinations. So the probability that any two such mice will share the same ID are 1/4096. But if you have, say, 100 people, then there are 100*99 ~= 10,000 possible pairings. It's been a while since I took statistics, but I can wager that at least two of those people will share the same ID.
Re:These things _have_ encryption (Score:2)
...Yes, it was, wasn't it?
Logitech (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, I really have no clue whether this is just for show of if it actually does something. Does anyone know?
Scary Story... (Score:2, Funny)
Nanite
Alternatives? (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, how about security wireless mice? There's no password-sniffing risk, but I guess somebody could move the cursor around on your PC and delete files etc... not quite as bad as keybpard access though.
Can anyone give any info on available IR mice/keyboards? Most checks in search engines seem to just links about mice using IR for movement detection, not transmission
repeated mistakes (Score:2)
In Related News (Score:3, Funny)
Southern New Jersey police [slashdot.org] dispatchers were wondering why they were receiving requests for New England Patriots, Boston Bruins, and Boston Celtics statistics on their monitors....
Beware the new technologies... (Score:2)
That's one of the first remote control jokes...
beware also... (Score:2, Informative)
My laptop was haunted once, too... (Score:2, Funny)
when suddendly the mouse started to move around horizontally. We stared at it in amazement for a while, then I
moved the mouse and it all stopped. My best guess is induction from a nearby power line, but I don't really know
My experience with this... (Score:2)
Anyway, for about a week straight, every day when I would come in, I would have netscape open, emails open, etc..
I had originally thought that someone was messing with my pc at work when I was gone, but at the end of the week, the offending person was there and used his mouse and it controlled my keyboard... With those first ones we had to, there were only 2 channels you could use, so its a bad idea for any sort of mid-large company..
They are now making bluetooth keyboards / mice and are supporting them there, I don't work there anymore though so don't have much of an idea if it works better...
Logitech Encryption Driver Releases (Score:3, Informative)
Now, will someone please explain to me how updating drivers for a 3 year old wireless keyboard will encrypt the path from the keyboard to the receiver? I'm honestly asking, because I don't get it. Or does it only work for recent revisions of these keyboards? I don't think this wasn't a part of the drivers when I bought it a couple years ago. I tried to ask LISA [logitech.com], their magical online support, but all I got was:
"LISA I found no items pertaining to 'encryption'."
Re:Logitech Encryption Driver Releases (Score:3, Insightful)
There could be a number of legitimate ways this happened:
1. The encryption feature was there all along, but they didn't get around to supporting it in the software until now. This often happens in commercial hardware products, when you hit a deadline and the drivers just aren't ready. Although 3 years does seem a bit excessive.
2. The driver actually downloads code to the controller in the keyboard, thereby "upgrading" it to include encryption.
3. The hardware supported it all along, but they were having trouble getting their government paperwork to ship a product with encryption. So they just yanked the feature out of the driver until such time as the paperwork is done. Now its done so they are shipping the drivers.
same problem with the PCjr a few years ago... (Score:3, Funny)
Reminds me... (Score:3, Funny)
Turns out it fell between two of the couch cushions, which were depressing the "next channel" button...
Re:20 word summary (Score:2)
Three words.... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Three words.... (Score:2)
Re:Keyboards vs RC racers (Score:4, Funny)
Happens that, right after Christmas (or maybe Christmas afternoon, I can't remember) one of the neighbor kids shows up with his shiny new rc-10 (mine was somewhat more scarred - see above). Naturally, I ran inside and got my car out so that we could race. What a disaster - my car did this stuttery thing and ended up in a flowerbed, while my friends' brand-new rc-10 went off full-throttle up our driveway, completely out of control, and then zipped right under the gate and into the waiting fangs beyond. By the time we got the gate undone, it was too late. Yeah, we checked, and yeah, both of us were on the same freq. What a scene - I'll never forget it