China To Launch $40 Billion State Fund To Boost Chip Industry

An anonymous reader shares a report: China is set to launch a new state-backed investment fund that aims to raise about $40 billion for its semiconductor sector, two people familiar with the matter said, as the country ramps up efforts to catch up with the U.S. and other rivals. It is likely to be the biggest of three funds launched by the China Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund, also known as the Big Fund. Its target of 300 billion yuan ($41 billion) outdoes similar funds in 2014 and 2019, which according to government reports, raised 138.7 billion yuan and 200 billion yuan respectively. One main area of investment will be equipment for chip manufacturing, said one of the two people and a third person familiar with the matter. President Xi Jinping has long stressed the need for China to achieve self-sufficiency in semiconductors.

The time to do that has passed

[RobinH]

The time for China to catch up was when the west was giving them unfettered access to all the technology and the semiconductor industry feed-stocks that China doesn't produce. The time for that is gone. They're now dealing with a massive gender imbalance due to the one-child policy, 21% youth unemployment, a real estate crash (in a country where real estate is the only thing people invest in) and years of whipping up the population into a nationalist frenzy about "one China." Xi is sitting there with a stick of dynamite in his hand and he's already lit the fuse. He knows he can't catch up in semiconductors, and he knows the most advanced semi-conductor technology is a short hop across the straight. Even if he's only 33% sure he can pull it off, he's going to invade Taiwan because letting millions of Chinese men sink to the bottom of the straight or die on the beaches of Taiwan still solves many of his internal problems.

Re:

[sinij]

Yes, they will have hard time catching up. Still, I don't think you have to be at the cutting age of fab size to survive in case of sanctions. I don't see why a decade-old tech, say 22nm process, implemented as a strategic backup would not be sufficient to maintain working society.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

I don't see why a decade-old tech, say 22nm process, implemented as a strategic backup would not be sufficient to maintain working society.

Because their working society is predicated upon income from exports that depend upon higher-technology parts that they now cannot get.

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[AmiMoJo]

Chinese fabs are already mass producing 7nm chips.

Re:

[RobinH]

Only at an estimated 50% yield, and they're not expected to be able to improve that much under the sanctions regime.

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[AmiMoJo]

Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure this time the sanctions will work.

They are already shipping consumer products with 7nm parts.

Re:

[RobinH]

Keep telling yourself that a country with almost nothing going for it is going to conquer the world.

Re: The time to do that has passed

[SuperDre]

They already have 7nm, but not yet available for large quantities as with 'larger' sizes, but that will soon be fixed. People really underestimate the chinese, they are one of the fast growing technology countries in the world, they are surpassing the US in other fields like medical. It's because China is advancing so fast that the US has put the sanctions in place.

Re:

[slashdot_commentator]

It's because China is advancing so fast that the US has put the sanctions in place.

Wrong. Its because Xi is such a jackass, he has to go threatening war with its neighbors, while featuring a "high tech" military and "world leading tech manufacture capability" it didn't possess. The US "permitted" Taiwan's TSMC to take the lead in chip substrate manufacture, which now companies like Intel are attempting to catch up. Because US leaders are capable of seeing ahead more moves than Xi, the Biden administration decided to throw a spanner to the Chinese "march to world hegemony".

What people a

Re:

[SuperDre]

Oh please get your head out of your ass. The US doesn't give a damn about what Xi does in his own country. And US leaders are a joke, Biden is merely a dummy, and not even a good one.

If you look at a lot of technology developed, you'll see that it actually are asians who are responsible for the bulk of it, yeah a lot of times working for US companies.

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[RobinH]

Apparently you're on the Chinese payroll because you have a high UID, you're trying to shove a wedge into the US culture war, and everything you've said about China simply isn't based on any facts, except the ones you'd get from a state run television channel in Beijing.

Re:

[jon3k]

I hear this argument a lot. And for the average desktop computer, I totally agree with you.

But that's not the concern. The concern is cloud, AI, etc. Massive compute requirements. TSMC began mass production of a 22nm node nine years ago. It's going to require many, many times more power and cooling to operate at the same levels of performance as modern 7, 5, 4 and even 3nm node sizes. This is a truly massive disadvantage. And while China has proven they can produce chips using a 7nm node size, it

Re:

[sinij]

From the point of realpolitik, cloud, AI do not yet matter. We can look at the war in Ukraine as an example, Ukraine has access to all the modern technology and Russia is fighting them with 80s era, mostly analog Soviet tech and it is a stalemate. Similarly, in a cold or hot conflict with China, it won't matter if Chinese suicide drones use 22nm or 3nm tech.

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[jon3k]

You seem to be only thinking about this from a military perspective and today. Sure, military weapons today can use node sizes that are literally 10x larger (or more) than 22nm. But I think you discount the short term use of AI in the very near term [thehill.com] and how important massive amounts of compute will be. It's absolutely the future of warfare I don't think anyone doubts that. China can't compete against the US in a kinetic conflict today and that will just get progressively worse as the west invests in mas

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[Anonyrnous]

Now, they can pretty much throw their weight around militarily, and do what they do best... hand weapons to countries that are fighting the west in proxy battles, such as sending munitions to Russia

So what you're saying is that China is using Russia in a proxy war with the West? Those sneaky fucks. We all thought America was using Ukraine in a proxy war with Russia (you know, because dozens of senators have directly admitted it) but you've seen through to the truth that it was China pulling the string all along. Well done sir!

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[slashdot_commentator]

China would have been able to annex Taiwan in a bloodless move, similar to Hong Kong

Hardly. The Hong Kong populace did not "willing" agree to surrender its rights and "permit" autocratic control of its city. It was done with the divisions of the PLA, which Hong Kong did not have a local force (or foreign military allies) capable of resisting. But subjugating Hong Kong and violating its treaty with the UK concerning the 1998 Hong Kong handover provided the Taiwanese people with a blueprint of what CCP controlled life would look like.

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[jon3k]

Yes, China does have 7nm fabs, and they have the "national chip of China"... i.e. Via/Centaur's x86 design. However, it is going to take them a while to go from 2018 tech to the latest and greatest, and as the world pushes on all fronts, the gap with AI is going to become wider as more process nodes come online.

I'll add and clarify a couple things. One, AMD was producing 7nm CPUs for retail sale at volume in 2017. Second, those 7nm CPU China is producing are ASIC and not general x86 CPU. Analysts don't even believe that's possible for them today at all. And they aren't even producing simple 7nm ASIC at significant scale yet.

Compound that with the fact that this is the end of the road node size they can produce using DUV equipment and you really see the terrible position China is in. They have to perform a

Re:

[Local ID10T]

Even if he's only 33% sure he can pull it off, he's going to invade Taiwan because letting millions of Chinese men sink to the bottom of the straight or die on the beaches of Taiwan still solves many of his internal problems.

This will not happen.

China can destroy Taiwan, but they cannot take Taiwan.

Taiwan is very heavily armed, with gun and missile emplacements aimed at the mainland. The range of these armaments is up to 200miles. The straight is as narrow as 100miles.

It is a Mutually Assured Destruction situation. An invasion attempt will trigger a wave of retaliatory fire which would destroy a swath of cities along the coast of China.

In order to succeed, an attack would have to destroy Taiwan's armaments before they can be

Re:

[RobinH]

If I thought Xi was trying the make the best choice for the benefit of his country, then I'd absolutely agree with you. However, I think that, like Putin, he's only making choices based on sustaining his own regime. On top of that, I believe anyone who would ever tell him the truth has been removed from the ruling elite in the country and he's surrounded himself with useless "yes men." Therefore I don't think he has an accurate picture, and I don't think he cares about the Chinese people. It's a very da

Re:

[slashdot_commentator]

He knows he can't catch up in semiconductors, and he knows the most advanced semi-conductor technology is a short hop across the straight. Even if he's only 33% sure he can pull it off, he's going to invade Taiwan because letting millions of Chinese men sink to the bottom of the straight or die on the beaches of Taiwan still solves many of his internal problems.

You have an extremely distorted understanding of China's semiconductor issue.

Invading Taiwan will not resolve China's semiconductor issues. The missile bombardment will probably result in collateral damage to the factory and support infrastructure. The real issue is how much of the specialist worker base the CCP will be able retain after a "successful" invasion (also pie in the sky, IMHO).

Before 2020, no nation had unilateral independence in semiconductor manufacture, and that includes Taiwan. What makes

Re: The time to do that has passed

[Grokew]

China: 104.6 males for every 100 females. USA 97.5 males for every 100 females. They could send 75 men for every 1000 American women, and we would get a perfect 1:1 ratio.

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[Tablizer]

Then tax the fucking rich. You don't need 50 mansions to be "motivated".

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[ranton]

[The CHIPS Act was] Just more spending that inflates currency with tax money funneled from blue collar workers to the executive suites.

The CHIPS Act is funded by the federal budget, which is hardly funded by blue collar workers. Blue collar workers fund less than 5% of the federal budget, almost entirely from their Social Security and Medicare contributions. The bulk of federal income comes from the professional class, which includes the executive suites. They are primarily paying for the CHIPS Act. Arguably it would be more accurate to say future generations of the professional class will be paying for it considering how large the deficit

Take note UK

[Gravis Zero]

This is what a serious investment in semiconductors looks like. The UK couldn't even give a billion and then slashed the budget. Who are they trying to fool?

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[groobly]

But Turing invented computers on a shoestring. Rule Brittania!

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[Gravis Zero]

No, Turing formalized the concepts of computing. Concepts are cheap to make.

$39 billion

[groobly]

$39 billion of the fund is earmarked for industrial espionage.

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[sapgau]

And... a good part of that will be lost by corruption. This is measured by the amount of property bought by chinese nationals all over the world.

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[Areyoukiddingme]

And... a good part of that will be lost by corruption.

Just like the last two tries.

Money can't buy happiness... and isn't guaranteed to buy competent engineers. Or China would have a state of the art chip industry and Blue Origin would have an orbital-class rocket.

Re: $39 billion

[SuperDre]

What bullshit. People seem to think China can only advance due to Industrial espionage, but in reality that's not true, and industrial espionage is just as much done by the US.