Sky's Botched Google Migration In the UK 101
An anonymous reader writes "Rupert Murdoch-owned British ISP Sky is migrating their customers to the Google Apps platform, and the customer experience is terrible. Their 1 million customers were told that they need to change their client settings to enable SMTP Authentication and other settings on a certain date — but not to do it before then or their e-mail would break; but if you don't do it on the date your e-mail will also break. Oh, and if you're a POP user you also need to enable that manually in the 'Skoogle' interface, as seemingly they chose not to run a system-wide command to allow it for all users. In addition, if you want help then you're pretty much on your own. One user has made 7 support calls and still not been able to access his e-mail since the migration. Hardly surprising that the story has made the papers with their help-desk in meltdown. It does make you wonder why they simply didn't put proxy servers in place to proxy the new service by modifying the old settings in the network and give their customers time to switch over without their e-mail breaking in the meantime. Or even a simple ActiveX tool to help out the less technical users."
ActiveX??? (Score:5, Interesting)
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What about those who are less technical on a mac ? Are they just stuck as well ?
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Therefore, simple instructions are a must. These people set up their POP3 once, they can do it again. The lack of a proxy server, however, is rather surprising and disappointing.
mad? No, practical. (Score:1)
People running Linux, FF on Windows or even reading
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The article summary seems to be overblowing the problems to me. Having email "broken" isn't even an accurate way to put things; it just means your email temporarily doesn't work.
Actually, it's worse than that. (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Mention of Google Apps, a product that competes with Microsoft.
2. Mention of something being "broken."
A couple of important notes about that:
2.1. The thing with a potential issue, E-mail sending, has nothing to do with Google Apps, however it's mentioned to create a negative association with them.
2.2. The potential issue is exaggeration to the point of idiocy. Nothing actually gets broken; you just have to change a certain setting on a certain date, and if you don't, it's not like your house catches fire or anything. OR MAYBE IT DOES?!?!?! WHO CAN BE SURE?
And then, the coup de grace:
3. Mention of a Microsoft proprietary technology as a solution.
And of course, can't let that go by without adding:
3.1. A technology that forces everyone into vendor lock-in with the Microsoft Way Of Doing Things, and
3.2. A cure that is far worse than a disease, a technology that opens your system up to all kinds of hacks and attacks for the sake of preventing something that Grandma can easily be walked through fixing. (If you don't believe me, look at all the Grandmas who are walked through setting up their Email by Apple tech help and Evolution e-mail wizards every day.)
In other words, ladies and gentlemen, the summary above has all the hallmarks of a professionally-written Microsoft FUD-job.
Someone was paid to write this article and submit it to Slashdot so that all of our geeky eyes can see it and wonder, "Oh, the horrors of Google Apps! They should have gone with Microsoft," when not only do Google Apps have nothing to do with the problem, the problem itself would have been made worse by the proposed solution.
And they would have gotten away with it if it hadn't 've been for you kids!
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- Yeah Chief, take it easy. All the guy was suggesting was to create a custom ActiveX to help them out. You make it sound as if that suggestion means
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What has Linux to do with this? (Score:3, Informative)
"You can dual boot your computer with Linux, but if you don't defrag and partition the HDD, you'll lose all your data."
Hi there, Mr. Ballmer!
To begin with, your post is wildly off-topic, and that's generally disliked by the moderators here, I suppose that's why you posted AC.
Second, 1997 called and they want your "defrag and partition" statement back. Oh wait, is that still needed with a Microsoft Windows install? Certainly not with Linux. Unless you want to specif
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PS nutcase AC, your statement makes no sense. Defragging a drive to be partitioned will not ensure data integrity. Like me trying to explain this to you, it's a futile effort with no measurable gains.
i'll bite (Score:2)
And fuck knows what the hell they need that horrible ActiveX shit for (and they probably don
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Any modern Linux distro does it like this: Insert CD > turn computer on > click on "install" > type your name > type your password > click "next" a few times for the defaults, or click on the other options if you do not want the defaults. Follow? Resizing and repartitioning is entirely automatic if you are satisfied with the defaults, or either you can choose your own partition set if you know what you are doing.
the average *nix
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Irrelevant. You're talking about installing Linux on a blank machine. I'll requote what you yourself quoted, since you obviously forgot 2 seconds afterwards: "You can dual boot your computer with Linux, but if you don't defrag and partition the HDD,
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Maybe true in the days when 9x ruled the roost. Nowadays the windows defragmenter is useless for this sort of thing anyway and the writers of partitioning tools have had to deal with the issue of moving data out of the way themselves.
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general result of change for the sake of progress (Score:4, Insightful)
I would not thoroughly enjoy following those instructions, and I'm quite certain it terrifies at least 15% of their customer base.
And to the previous comment of "active x - are you mad?" I would add a "me too", for reasons too numerous to get into here.
This is the kind of thing I'd expect to find on an install CD from an ISP, that configures your computer for their service when you insert the CD. Setups like that are either provided on disc or are a "deliver and setup" option for ISPs when they have this level of setup required. Expecting Joe User to do this is just plain crazy.
I bet their phone support is buried for quite some time to come.
Re:general result of change for the sake of progre (Score:4, Insightful)
Running a responsive e-mail server has always been expensive. Now that google has set people's expectations at 2+GB quotas, it is just ridiculous.
Google used their massive infrastructure to make scalability affordable, and ISPs can't compete. Most of their customers probably already use gmail, so why continue offering the service?
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At least among the technically inexperienced, Gmail usage isn't all that high in the UK. Even looking at my college IT class, most of whom were geeks of some description, it was mostly Hotmail or Yahoo.
Of course this is anecdotal evidence, but still...
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As an aside, Google should begin advertising their new IMAP service more, as it allows people to use t
Re:general result of change for the sake of progre (Score:2, Informative)
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Re:general result of change for the sake of progre (Score:3, Funny)
I had a quick look at the PDF, and I'll agree that while it's not pretty on-screen, reading a printed copy wouldn't be too bad. At least no more onerous than browsing the brochure-type instructions you get with many consumer products (Linksys routers, for example).
For comparison's sake, the similar changeover by ATT for their customers was handled by a Yahoo-bot (I'm not making that up) email advisory:
Re:general result of change for the sake of progre (Score:2)
this is missing the point (Score:2)
We were hit with this: first an email advising that we needed to change the settings on a certain day. Did this, didn't work. Phoned sky on a non-free number, was on hold for an hour, was eventually advised that their entire mail infrastructure was out of action for the week: try later. This wasn't communicated to anyone - Sky support are appalling.
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Software development is just a bunch of guesswork. (Score:1)
Re:Software development is just a bunch of guesswo (Score:2)
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"um", "ahm", "uh", "am", "eh"
BTInternet (Score:1)
ActiveX to migrate Google? (Score:1, Redundant)
Wow... now I've seen everything. I mean, granted it was a kdawson post, but still... someone suggesting using ActiveX to help a Google migration... talk about crazy.
</troll>
Risk Trifecta (Score:4, Insightful)
2. Having less technical users handle the changes without ramping up the help desk. Risky.
3. Breaking peoples' email. You're a bloody idiot. I used to be able to break almost anything and people could deal with it, but break the phones or the email and things get very bad, very fast.
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Test on Development System (while you are at it, bring some of the worker bees over to try it.
Sort out the problems (there will *always* be some).
Rinse and Repeat as necessary.
Final QA on Development System.
Back up Production System.
Install on Production System.
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Yes, most of us have, especially those of us in IT. The problem is we have Murdoch's crap (Sky) with their don't give a shit attitude, Beardy Branson's Virgin Media (the name says it all) and Tiscali (Italian for crap) to choose from, along with the monopoly telco BT's offerings which, although they were haemorrhaging customers right, left and centre a few years ago, seem to have come out as the best of a bad bunch. The UK is very cost conscious (we're tight bastard
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Near the start of the year my ex moved out, and so one of the many things that had to be changed was the BT phone line - it was in her name, so I needed to change it to mine. BT couldn't just change the name on the account; oh no, they had to close the
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Yes, Eclipse here as well. I only stated I know categorically that Zen follow procedure because I know someone who works in the NOC. With Eclipse I've had three periods of downtime in the last three years, two of which were BT issues with the local MUX
Here is a simple answer (Score:2)
It does make you wonder why they simply didn't put proxy servers in place to proxy the new service by modifying the old settings in the network and give their customers time to switch over without their e-mail breaking in the meantime. Or even a simple ActiveX tool to help out the less technical users."
Its because they are incompetent or they want the whole project to fail. I'd put more faith in the first reason. You see, I have seen more incompetent "computer gurus" in the past few years than one can imagine.
It's a support problem, not a Google Docs issue (Score:2, Insightful)
It's a migration problem (Score:2)
As a systems manager, in my experience any set of instructions which is longer than one page including screenshots is too complicated and liable to all sorts of breakage. If your process requires much more than that, it needs simplifying if you are to have a hope of it being followed properly.
There are a few exceptions to this, but most of them concern systems which do something of a specialist nature, and you're describing it to an audience which will understand what the system is tryi
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This explains a few things (Score:2, Informative)
I told him, if you haven't changed anything and its been going on for a day or two give em a ring. So he did. Got through all the usual stuff. Only on the fourth call did they inform him he needed to change his settings. The guy didn't elaborate, but I wasn't that interesting.
What a mess.
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What could the technical problem be? (Score:4, Interesting)
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They're also committing the cardinal sin of giving users options that they're not going to understand:
Choose what you woul
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As everybody got home from work to find that to even read their email, let alone change settings to allow POP, they had to login via Skys site - which just couldn't take it.
I wasn't able to change my settings until about 6 hours after I got home. It wasn't a snappy experience, each page took ages to load and often timed out...
Programmers Lament (Score:2)
What does this have to do with google docs? (Score:1)
I see where Sky mentions Google docs in their instructions, however the instructions they gave their users only pertained to changing a few email settings. What does this have to do with Google docs? I use Google docs; is this something different Sky has set up with Google to make their customers think they are getting something special? You know, like AOL use to do with their "free" virus "protection", and their super "fast" dial up, and all their "crappy" adware.
Furthermore, unless Sky is a strange ISP,
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New interface, no problem - getting it into his head that he no longer clicked the little envelope icon... impossible.
Similar experience with my own domain (Score:2)
I had a set of family groups for my dotmac domain and email IDs.
When i moved it to Google Apps i ended up trouble shooting homepage and pages issues so much that i stopped with mail, docs and pages.
The homepage is still hosted by my dotmac.
Secondly google apps personal does not allow you to upload a custom-made homepage.
I use a PDF as a homepage for my family newsletter as it is easier for all browsers
I can't complain... (Score:3, Informative)
Both the householders were completely baffled by this change that they never asked for. I told them both that Sky's helpline must be inundated by people literally crying on the phone, unable to understand what has happened and why their mail client doesn't work any more.
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How many users are really affected? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have my work email for business / high priority stuff and web mail for my personal life, I thought this kind of setup was actually the norm.
Hardly surprising the story has made the papers (Score:3, Funny)
Ownership of Sky (Score:2, Informative)
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SRV Records? Why POP and not IMAP? (Score:2)
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$ORIGIN _tcp.domain.
_imap SRV 0 0 143 mail.domain.
_pop3 SRV 0 0 110 mail.domain.
_smtp SRV 0 0 25 mail.domain.
Like that.
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option pop-server ip-address [, ip-address... ];
The POP3 server option specifies a list of POP3 servers available to
the client. Servers should be listed in order of preference.
and
option smtp-server ip-address [, ip-address... ];
The SMTP server option specifies a list of SMTP servers available to
the client. Servers should be listed in order of preference.
I don't know how well Windows c
How did this make it to execution? (Score:1)
How on Earth did this "plan" make it through to the execution phase? I'm sorry Sky techs, but when I read this, sitting as I am on a Sunday with nothing in particular taking up my sweet time, all I could think was "Ha ha...ha ha haa haaaaaaaa you poor bastards!"
All I can imagine is that nobody who was anywhere near reality was behind this...i.e. consultants. Anyone with a passing regard for humans using computers would have come up with something better.
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Gmail + POP3 + mailing lists = Broken (Score:4, Interesting)
POP3 clients (simple or advanced) do not following this "conversation" paradigm, and by not getting a copy of their own post two things happen: A) You have no confirmation the post made it to the list and B) you break threading on the email client because now people are responding to a message that never made it on my list.
The sad part is attempting to send yourself a copy of the message via CC: or BCC: does not work! Its like Gmail went out of its way to ensure you do not get a copy of your own post. Additionally while Google searching suggests there is an option to get yourself a copy of your own post, I was unable to find it anywhere.
I feel sorry for any of these people who are being switched over to Gmail's POP3 and are on mailing lists.
Others have written about the situation as well: Gmail + POP + mailing lists = broken [playbacktime.com]
Gmail = Broken (Score:2)
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However, there are a couple of caveats:
1) It'll re-download all your mail for the past 30 days, so you'll end up with a bunch of duplicate mail in your POP client which you'll have to delete. This only happens when you change the setting, so you'll only have to deal with it the once.
2) You'll start
I don't get it (Score:1)
Mod parent troll (Score:2)
Bad Migration != Bad Google Service (Score:1)
1 million users???? (Score:1)
Good Lord. I thought we had it rough when the local ISP I work for migrated mail servers internally for 20000+ users this summer. Even shifting people over in small batches and providing instructions for multiple e-mail clients(unlike Sky), we still ended up with about half our userbase calling in over a 2-3 month period as we rolled it out. Regular staff was putting in overtime and some temps* were brought on to help out, but it was still quite the nonstop parade of callers. And of course, they're runn
Erm, is this worse? (Score:1)
Shocking service.
Karem
BBC blames the users (Score:1)
Apps migrations are sometimes tricky, but worth it (Score:1)