'Hot Coffee' Scandal Officially Resolved 189
kukyfrope writes "Take-Two Interactive today announced that the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) inquiry concerning hidden sexual content in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has formally closed. All outstanding matters pending before the FTC have been settled and no penalties or fines have been assessed. Although Take-Two was not fined, the company will be subject to civil penalties of $11,000 for future violations. 'We look forward to putting this behind us and focusing on what we do best - creating videogames,' said Take-Two President and Chief Executive Officer Paul Eibeler."
Hot Coffee Dissolved... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:ATTENTION SLASHDOT (Score:2)
Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Insightful)
Any kid who's not able to handle the hot coffee is too young to handle the rest of the game. Not to mention, they'll find more explicit porn just looking for the patch to unlock it.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:4, Insightful)
I know you're trolling, but to a certain extent it is your right to raise your children however you want. It certainly shouldn't be the government's job! Just don't try to tell a libby that.
Nope, never crossed your, lack of, mind. Keep up the fight to make sure we're all ignorant and polarized against one another so we can be distracted from the real problems that do NOT involve political affiliations.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly. If people want to know how liberals truly think, look no further than 1890-1920, the progressive era.
Yeah, there was stupid shit, like Prohibition that was the last gasp of the movement as it died. But, actually, Prohibition has an interesting story.
What people don't realize is that prohibition wasn't intended to protect people from themselves, it was intended to prevent a common problem in those days: Men who wouldn't support their families, spend all their money on drink, and absure their wive
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Funny)
No one wants the internet to raise their child... that's what the TV is for.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
I would agree with you, except for the little nagging fact that your trusting a body of people to do the 'judging' for you. Meaning, the rating on the outside of the box. Your trusting some other people to decide what your child is ready to see or not.
So basically your saying, "Ok. The ESRB says that this game is Mature. T
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
I applaud you for completely changing the subject under debate. Truthful advertising is the same thing as killing hookers, right?
But I suppose you would just shrugs your shoulders when you got sold a box that said it had a 40
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:3, Funny)
You know what would be awesome? If you had to get a license before you were allowed to use anologies.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Huh? I was comparing killing hookers in a game to a crappy porn-like minigame. I think the target audience for both is pretty much the same.
Uh, no. A better analogy would be if you were sold a 40" HDTV and actually go
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2, Insightful)
I call BS. Said content wasn't even part of the game, and should not have been considered. Even so, GTA is sufficiently notorious that parents should've known what they were getting their kids into. If they didn't, the giant "M" on the cover was a not-so-subtle hint that this game may not be appropriate for Little
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:4, Insightful)
I just don't see why it was that big of a deal.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
I personally don't see the content as being a "big deal" because as you have indicated, the game is already for a mature audience. The problem I do have is the m
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2, Insightful)
This is the same
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
I've responded to comments
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Thank you, you just provided me with a name for my first child!
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs
I think after reading that, the hot coffee scene wouldn't seem too out of line, even if it could be stumbled upon without installing a patch.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
I can understand that. But, in the game (without hot coffee), you can have sex with hookers, and then kill them for your money back. I think that might hurt their developing concepts of healthy sexuality. Also, the game lists "Strong Sexual Content" in the content description on the back. Wouldn't that raise a warning flag to a parent who is concerned about games
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Insightful)
From esrb.org:
MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.
So, parents bought San Andreas for their 17-year-old kids, thinking it contained sexual content, but not graphic sexual content...? Or perhaps they bought it for their 12-year-old kids, not giving a damn what it contained as long as it shut the little sods up for a while? How many parents actually know what the little symbols on the game mean anyway?
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course they know what those letters mean. They are review scores. Apparently out of 17 because why else would the children ask for games with a 17 and dismiss games with e.g. a 6?
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2, Insightful)
Bullsh*t! It was NOT a violation of ANYTHING! (Score:5, Interesting)
The segment in question was included but was never meant to be accessed! It took someone else's hack, which might or might not have been in violation of the game's EULA, to release it. Therefore, the accessibility to that whole section of code was not authorized by Take Two or Rockstar. Yet they were made the scapegoat in nothing more that a politically-charged witch hunt. There was abosultely NO REASON for Take Two/Rockstar to disclose that information because they had NO EXPECTATION that it would ever been seen by any customer.
For example, let's say that I included the following type of code in a huge program that I'm writing. (No comments about the Perl. I'm just making an example.)
$ESRB = "Neutral";
if ($ESRB eq "Evil") {
print "The ESRB is a bunch of fucking, holier-than-thou, moralistic morons.\n";
print "And you're mother's ugly, too.\n";
}
Obviously, that code is never meant to be seen because $ESRB is being explicity set to bypass the if statement. So, I compile the whole program, with the code that was never meant to be seen, get a "T" rating for the whole program, and release the program. In my EULA is an explicit statement that no one is allowed to modify the code.
Then some moron sees it in the compiled code and releases an unauthorized hack to change $ESRB to "Evil". Suddenly, there's a big bruhaha because it should have been "M" due to the language of the code.
Now the ESRB and Thompson are on my case for not revealing the code that was in there. WHY? The code was never meant to be seen - not even as an Easter egg. There is no reasonable expectation of me letting the ESRB know that the code was in there because there was no reasonable expectation that it would ever be seen. Someone went in without my permission and modified the code to see something that was never meant to be seen.
There is no reason why Take Two/Rockstar should be held accountable for the release of something that was never meant to be available in the first place. This was nothing close to a "truth-in-labeling" violation. It was a do-gooder, "for the sake of the children", witch hunt. Rockstar took the high road and just let it slide, which was probably the best PR they could have done, but they were nothing more than a scapegoat.
Re:Bullsh*t! It was NOT a violation of ANYTHING! (Score:2)
I take exception to only one sentence you wrote: It was a do-gooder, "for the sake of the children", witch hunt.
The witch hunters were not do-gooders. They were witch hunters, pure, simple and 100% evil. There was nothing good in what they did, there were no children "protected", there were no parents enlightened. They grabbed their immoral viewpoint (hey, I have morals and they're nothing like what these idiots espouse) and dragged it into a courtroom, where they confused a judge int
Witch hunt? (Score:2)
Historically, the witches being hunted were usually spinsters, desperately poor and quite often schizophrenic or some similar affliction.
Comparing a modestly successful video game company (or a prominent politician as you usually here) being dragged through entirely nonviolent proceedings to a witch being pressed [wikipedia.org] for a confession is as ridiculous as calling someone a pirate for downloading an MP3.
Definition of "witch hunt" is 100% accurate. (Score:3, Informative)
From Answers.com [answers.com] (emphasis mine):
witch-hunt also witch hunt (wch'hnt') n.
An investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover subversive activities but actually used to harass and undermine those with differing views.
witchhunter witch'-hunt'er n.
witchhunting witch'-hunt'ing adj. & n.
Mind telling again me how this is not an accurate term?
Take Two *investors* had a *right* to know ... (Score:2)
Sorry, the truth is that things are more complicated than you are aware of. Take Two is a publicly traded company. Federal law requires that Take Two inform *investors* of the risks that face the company. If Hot Coffee was intentional, a marketing gimmick, then Take Two had a legal responsibility to inform investors that its marketing strategy could result in product recalls, no charge replacements, loss of retail outlets, etc. The FTC had e
Re:Bullsh*t! It was NOT a violation of ANYTHING! (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow, that's naive in the extreme. "never meant to be available". Er, yeah, right!
Take Two: Like, ooh darn-it how did we accidentally develop and leave in all those extra bits and then get our friends to release a patch making us ten times more money than we would have made. Shucks, best not do that again.
Goverment: We'll fine you $11k if you
Re:Bullsh*t! It was NOT a violation of ANYTHING! (Score:3, Insightful)
They got "their friends" to release a patch eh? - the PC gaming guys trawled through the data files looking for stuff and found this, once discovered I beleive it was then attempted on the consoles with a gameshark device and also found.
As for increased sales due this, L.O.L indeed - rockstar get an obscene (note the pun) amount of sales with or without some shitty little porn section of the game.
Think befo
Uhhh except all games do that (Score:5, Insightful)
My bet is they made the Hot Coffee game, realised it'd get them an AO rating, and so cut it. Pure and simple.
You can see a similar thing with Civ 4. There's mods that will add some "lost wonders." These are wonders with full videos, info and everything, they are fully produced. Basically, Firaxis planned on using them, but then cut them later, I believe for game balance reasons. However they didn't bother to remove the assets so witha bit of XML and LUA modificaiton, they can go back in the game.
Re:Uhhh except all games do that (Score:2)
I think a better analogy would be if somebody wrote a horrificly violent book, perhaps even a comic, and some joker decided to scribble crude pornographic drawings in the margins in invisible ink. Now let's assume that in order to make this in
Almost Plausable Deniability... (Score:2)
However, while it's easy to give them the benefit of the doubt that they left in executable code that wasn't intended to be accessed, doesn't it seem strange that they left in the animation data for the Hot Coffee sequence?
If they hadn't included those files on the disc, the game would probably have just crashed when it was hacked.
Re:Bullsh*t! It was NOT a violation of ANYTHING! (Score:2)
Don't be naive. Of course it was ment to be accessed. Ant it was. And the segment in question worked like it was supposed to: people started to talk about Grand Theft Auto and Take-Two. And I think that even a few teenagers bought the game to see the "hot coffee".
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:5, Funny)
That's the type of analogy that assumes that the non-"Hot Coffee" content was wonderful and very different from the "Hot Coffee" content. How about an analogy where you buy a candy bar labelled "Loaded with Mouse Feces" and complain because you find a hamster-turd in it?
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
That's actually an excellent point, and your point is made even more excellent by the fact that I had mis-remembered the facts in this particular case. I'd forgotten that in this case you needed a third-party mod to see the "nekkid people." My bad, someone please mod down my original post. You can't blame the original producer for something that a third-party did.
My bad.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Clearly I need to do my research before posting about video games that I don't play. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Seriously, you were relatively nice to me even when my post was completely clueless.
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Actually, it's more like the folks at Mars replaced the proteins in the peanuts with a kind that could be converted to a toxin (not that pornography is toxic) and then the customer performed that conversion deliberately, then complained that their Snickers bar was tox
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Did any parents whose kids performed the mod actually complain? I'm pretty sure it was all conservative groups who wouldn't have bought the unChristian game to begin with?
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
I think I'm going to have to coin a new name, it will be called drink's law, and it will read something to the effect that "no matter what the conversation, someone will say something stupid in it if it's on slashdot." The McDonald's jokes would be a lot funnier if McDonald's wasn't clearly culpable for the woman's burns due to the fact that they wer
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:3, Funny)
Does this mean I should complain if I found real meat inside one of my favorite pickled sausage snacks?
Re:Wow, you wildly misinterpreted the situation (Score:1)
We both know that it is the smut that drove the whole thing and made the controversy. There'd have been nothing like this if the mislabelling was over something more substantial (such as a label that says Mac Compatible and it won't play on Macs).
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
Re:Problems like this are easily solved (Score:2)
If your babysitter can masturbate with your hardbrush, do you need to hide it whenever she comes over? Hey, we should SUE the manufacturer, because NOWHERE on the box does it say that this item can be used as a
they do that best? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:they do that best? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why not just rate every damn thing 'AO'? Certainly in the UK, GTA and similar games are rated '18' just for the violence, so 'Hot Coffee' wasn't a problem. Had it been included fully in the game, it would still have been an '18'.
There's no way a GTA game should be aimed at children. What's the quarrel between an 'M', which I gather means '17', and an 'AO' which means '18'? Shame to lose out on the seventeen-year-old market, I suppose, but it would free Rockstar to put what the hell they liked into the game without worrying about whether some deleted scene will resurface and cause trouble.
Re:they do that best? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:they do that best? (Score:2)
They would not forgo the massive profits a game like GTA gives them morality or not
Re:they do that best? (Score:2)
I got my copy of San Andreas at Wal-Mart. On sale.
Yes, but was it the M rated version? Not saying it wasn't, just wondering.
Re:they do that best? (Score:5, Funny)
My wife sometimes wonders if she's a bad parent because she would prefer her son to be surfing porn than sites like this [stickdeath.com]. Personally, I think seeing sex is a whole lot heathier than violence. Hmm, in that light, the 'Hot Coffee' is the most acceptable part of that game
Re:they do that best? (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm. Interesting.
Very well... when the time comes to release GTA: TOKYO 2050 or whatever the next version might be, release the FULL-BLOODED version which Rockstar actually want to put out, and also the PARENT-SAFE version for Wal-Mart, in which we replace all the sex scenes with, oh, our hero dancing happily with Barney the Dinosaur or something like that.
Then put up the patch to convert PARENT-SAFE up to FULL-BLOODED on ftp. Like the Carmageddon guys did back in the day, when censors forced them to replace pedestrians with green-blooded zombies. Back then, every PC games magazine put the Carmageddon blood patch on every cover disk for months, for the benefit of non-wired readers. I'm quite sure the same would happen with GTA.
If you make it absolutely clear that the patch is AO content and will convert your wholesome, ultra-violent GTA game to a sexually deviant, ultra-violent GTA game, and that it's for those who accidentally bought the wrong version, you should be in the clear. There's no sex on the disk bought by the parents in the shop - so they knew what they were buying. There's plenty of sex on the later download, but hey - if you install AO patches, you expect AO content, right?
That site is hilarious! (Score:2)
Re:they do that best? (Score:5, Funny)
I have one word for you sir, Bukkake.
I'd much, much rather explain to a child why the bad man on TV shot someone than explain why all of those bad men are glunking all over some poor woman's face.
LK
Re:they do that best? (Score:2)
Re:they do that best? (Score:2)
It's only a speeding ticket (Score:1)
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:1)
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2)
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2)
Is it per Hot Coffee, or is it per Hot Coffee sold?
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2)
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2)
If anyone is likely to be damaged by virtual titties, their parents have already failed them long before the game was purchased.
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2)
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2, Interesting)
Which, as I understand it, means San Andreas was originally rated suitable for people aged 17 and up, but with the restoration of the supposedly deleted scene it ought to have been rated only for people aged 18 and up.
Yeah. I can see why this is a major upset. I mean, with the enormous difference between a naive, callow youth of 17 able to deal only with baseball-bat beatings, driv
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:4, Funny)
You mean A rated content hidden within a M rated game. The GTA series is rated M. The beauty of it is that according to the rating system 17 year olds are "mature" enough to deal with beating innocent bystanders to death with a baseball bat but should not be exposed to nudity or sex.
Re:It's only a speeding ticket (Score:2)
The fine is trivial.
Keeping your product on the shelves of the big box retailers is not.
In an election year, social conservatives and Republicans in particular won't be happy to see video game violence and sex back in the news again. The FTC should be least of Rockstar's worries.
bad off topic joke (Score:5, Funny)
They both suck without cream
Re:bad off topic joke (Score:2)
Re:bad off topic joke (Score:2)
How are coffee and Bob Mould alike? They both suck without Husker Du.
Re:bad off topic joke (Score:2)
slap on the wrist (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:2)
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:4, Insightful)
1) They weren't OTA, and they didn't use public resources to distribute their speech.
2) This is the F T C not the FCC.
3) The content in question was not accessible without a DMCA violation.
Why should this have even been an issue for Take 2?
More evidence that sex is expensive (Score:5, Interesting)
From the last line in the article:
The removal of San Andreas from most retailers' shelves followed by a re-rating of the title resulted in a loss of nearly $25 million.
Ouch!
Re:More evidence that sex is expensive (Score:2)
Sales number put GTA:SA on par with the previous GTA releases, so while pulling it back from the shelves for sure costs some money, I can't see how that should go anywhere near that $25mio number.
big deal? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:big deal? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:big deal? (Score:5, Funny)
I hear ya, buddy. I remember when Grand Theft Auto was a family game. We'd all sit around the television, cheering each other on. I remember Gran'pa screaming "Way to go Billy! Twice in the head and drop the gun, that's my boy!"
But after Hot Coffee? I just don't know anymore.
4 responces (Score:2)
- How dare you impune my credibility by pointing out the obvious fact that I'm wrong?
- Can't you see that I'm doing this for the children?
- Goodness, if you won't let me go after Take-Two for this, how can I possibly go after the boobie mods for all the other games out there?!
- It's not like parents should have to take any responsibility for what their children are doing on a computer. That's downright unAmerican.
Choose one & run with it.Re:big deal? (Score:2)
Re:big deal? (Score:2)
Yes but... (Score:2, Funny)
Jack Thompson must be really upset by this..... (Score:2)
$11,000 for future violations (Score:2)
No fine this time and $11,000 in the future? They couldn't buy publicity this cheap! They would be fools not to put something in future releases that was intended to get them fined.
Re:$11,000 for future violations (Score:2)
And behind the curtain... (Score:4, Funny)
God of War (Score:2)
AND NOBODY FREAKIN CARES!
This whole thing about hot coffee is a load of crap. It was self-righteous outrage about something that isn't a problem. I'm glad Take Two got off with what amounts to a speeding ticket.
Hmmm (Score:2)
To Rockstar: I want my money back! (Score:2)
I would sell it on Ebay but last time I checked, they're flooded with other people trying to unload their copy. In turn, i
Re:To Rockstar: I want my money back! (Score:2, Informative)