Sony Pushes Back Release For Blu-Ray Players 262
Sony has announced that their first model of Blu-Ray player will release in August, not later this month as originally announced. The BDP-SP1, retailing for $1000, will now ship on or about August 15th. Bad news for fans of the new format, and even worse news for the PS3. Since Sony's lackluster E3 showing, a string of bad news has seemed to conspire against the company's next-gen console. From the Gamers with Jobs article: "With the PS3's high-end model coming it at a whopping $400.00 less than a stand-alone Blu-Ray player, Sony needs to release these players as soon as possible. If they wait too long, the PS3 will begin looming on the horizon, causing even devout early adopters to question the intelligence of buying a stand-alone Blu-Ray unit. Sony also needs the largest possible installed base, come launch-time for the PS3. For the Blu-Ray player to be the PS3's version of the PS2's DVD player, casual technophiles need to be able to see the virtues of the Blu-Ray format. If there are few players, and few titles, this might not happen."
Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:5, Insightful)
My friend bought a first generation DVD player and it's still functioning to this day. I think it even has some of the codecs built into it (MP3, AVIs, etc.). His PS2's DVD functionality went out long ago. And that was after he participated in the first recall [megagames.com].
Buy a game console for its games. Buy a media player for its media playing abilities. Let's stop encouraging the console makers to bloat their consoles. Concentrate on one thing and--for the love of the game--get it right!
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2, Interesting)
While this seems apparent to you or I, for some reason those in the marketing departments of major companies really do think that more is more. I agree with your sentiment, and will second the right is better notion.
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Take Nintendo for example -- they went with their own proprietary mini-disc format... and look where it got them: the bottom of the console market. I think the PS3 would be much more attractive if they went with a DVD drive, like the Xbox 360... but I'm sure eventually the BR capacity will be used (pr0n?).
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
You probably mean next gen optical media, since DVD's was first gen digital video and I don't remember consoles running on VHS.
Also when you say they "keep doing it" it's worth noting that neither Wii nor XBOX360 actually did it.
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:4, Funny)
Except for Laserdisc.
and VCD.
and digital tape.
But other than that, you're absolutely right!
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Concentrate on one thing and--for the love of the game--get it right!
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I have to disagree. I love my PSP. I can surf the web for downloads, watching movies (UMD and ripped DVD's), listening to streaming audio, listening to my MP3's at work, and even playing a game occasionally. It's the only portable device I own other than my cell phone and I think it works great. It satisfies my needs perfectly. The wireless gaming is especially addictive, and I'm really getting hooked by Force Commander's play-by-email because I can keep the game going while satisfying my wife's nagging requests. As for media centers, I realize the niceness of a receiver to organize your devices, but I really yearn to take all of my machines and consolidate them into one. Do I really need 6 boxes sitting next to my television? Cable, DVR, DVD, VCR, Xbox/PS3/Wii/whatever, and then the receiver, plus speakers and the television? How large does my media cabinet have to be?
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
Flame On!
So all-in-one capabilities are great for you, fine, think about the people who are addicted to cable nests! What would they do without 16 different media players! I mean where will they go, if your Media Center future takes the cake, and ruins the component model forever?
I can see it now Datacenters nation wide announcing 'cable nesting' for the cablenestless.
In all seriousness though there is room for the ease of use media center concept, and the component mode
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
-matthew
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
Cellphones need to be rugged enough to take with you all the time (no hard drives or large fragile screens allowed), and should be as small as practical, also to have with you all the time.
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not get a computer to do both. .
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
It was 4-5 years after the first DVD players became available before MP3/AVI decoding was available.
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
Sony isn't holding this back for 'technical' reasons, Blu-ray have been selling in japan for a while now. http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,109617,0 0.asp [pcworld.com]
The problem is that Sony needed time to improve their fabrication process to keep foriegn buyers from shelling out $1,000 for a player that might have had a defective chip in it. While I guess you could call that a 'technical' problem, it's that you ne
Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though? (Score:2)
sniff sniff (Score:5, Funny)
Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:3, Insightful)
With the XBox 360 out and doing well and Nintendo realeasing soon with a great prices... will Sony recover from this? I just don't see any excitement around the next Playstation... all I hear is bad news.
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:5, Interesting)
You put way too much value in the PS name. Nintendo made the same mistake with the N64, and look what happened. THe big dog can lose. Meanwhile, SOny is now putting out a $600 console. You're right- kids are one of the drivers for games. No parent is going to pay $600 for a gaming console. Even the 360 at $400 is high priced. At 1/3 the cost of the PS3, the Wii is going to wipe the floor with Sony.
Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:2)
Maybe not, but as time goes by, the price will fall.
I think that the PS3 will do just fine. Maybe not right away, but
that same technology that makes it initially so expensive will give
the console longer legs. 4 years from now, once developers have
really learned how to get the most out of the hardware of each of
the consoles, the PS3 will shine. And by that time, the price will
come down to a more reasonable level.
Or at least that's the reasoning that Sony is
Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:2)
Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:2)
Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:4, Insightful)
The writing was on the wall: No matter how 'elite' the PS3 is they were going to lose market position because the competition is strong this time around instead of the limp wristed toss outs Nintendo and Microsoft threw last time. The only thing Sony could do is try to lead which means going out on the limb. They are way out on a thin branch where it might pay off or it might come crashing down.
As many who are going "ha ha!" at Sony's seemingly consistent knack for steping on all of the landmines, no one should relish a gaming world where Microsoft and Sony switch places. Do many of you think Microsoft will treat you better than Sony did if they dominate the space? I guarentee if Microsoft runs away with the market and crushes Sony we'll be back to same quite pace we've seen in the last few years. No thanks...I'll gladly take the three way race.
Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:4, Insightful)
And my major beef is that the "pushing the technology envelope" syndrome is idiotic. There is no need for Blu-Ray, except to force a fake tech trend, and make all of us go by new hardware for massive cash. I know people who have just finally upgraded to DVD, and why ever would they want to spend more on something that is pretty much a DVD?
Also, it seems that the PS3 is pretty much nothing but paperware right now, I wouldn't be suprised if they released a C-64 in a pretty case instead of whatever they are promising today (as opposed to yesterday).
Unlike the last console release war, Sony has no buzz. Last time they were the winner before all 3 were released even, now I think they might be taking the (underestimated) Gamecube's place in the market. Not that I really care that much, I'm just going to buy a Revoltion (or the *shudder* Wii), since buying Nintendo at least guarantees fun and innovative games with little hastle.
Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't want them destroyed. I want them humbled. I want them to learn their BetaMax/ATRAC/UMD lesson for good. I want this arrogant zaibatsu to know it's mortal.
I own a PS2, I like the PS2, but after the conduct of Sony these past couple years, with their new price tags adding even more insult, they've lost me as a customer. Not my devotion or fandom or loyalty -- no one has that, it's just consumer electronics after all -- but just me as a customer. Sony has become synonymous with screwing their own customers, and I don't feel like bending over for the PS3.
Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:2)
Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:2)
Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:3)
That said, a quick search for Sony in the
I don't care how many of your buddies are making games for the PS3. We've got other options if we decide to take our money somewhere else be
Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony? (Score:2)
The Playstation led the way. It just kicked the competition all over the place, frankly, and I'm glad I bought one.
The PS2 was good. It's backwards compatibility with the previous generation, rocked. However, it was not as powerful as the XBox, IMHO (and I have both). Sure, it didn't involve pouring money down the drain to produce them, but they weren't as powerful.
The PS3 is a freakish processor that no-one seems to like, glued onto the latest NVidia PC chip, with a few tweaks, and a
Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:2)
I do have to say that there has been a lot of bad press going around about the PS3 these days, but you would be surprised to know what's happening outside of the gaming press and Slashdot.
I know a few people who are most definitely shameless Sony/PlayStation fanboys. Although Sony, in my opinion, is horrible (probably an understatement), there were some fun games to be played on their first two consoles. With the upcom
Re:Can Sony survive this easily? (Score:2)
If you've seen political elections develop you recognize it's too early to call. The big branding and advertising campaign of PS3 has not yet began.
They might have lost some geeks, but the hardcore gamers that will see the hyper-cool PS3:
- ads on TV
- posters in the city
- banners in Internet
- promos and demo
Who cares? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Funny)
What did you do to make Sony's period late?
Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Interesting)
http://fuckbluray.com/ [fuckbluray.com]
http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/ [eff.org]
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114850,
I stopped buying Sony's crap after discovering that a normal memory stick (which was a STUPID, unnecessary format to begin with) wasn't good enough for my sony mp3 player, I needed a more expensive, DRM encumbered 'magic gate' stick. I also had no choice but to use Sony's buggy software to put music on the darn thing.
This isn't FUD, Sony just keeps shafting and screwing customers when it comes to the content market. They've been doing it for years, and will continue to do so.
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)
There is a lot to dislike about Sony's strategy at the moment. The main thing dissuading me from buying a PS3 is the price. I just won't buy it at the announced price. I don't play games enough to jus
Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have a Sony DVD player that won't
The Blu-Ray curse (Score:3, Insightful)
Do the right thing Sony. If you want the PS3 to thrive, cut the price in half and let the lower-end model use Dual-Layer discs.
Gamers don't care about blu-ray, home theater enthusiasts will buy a professional player. Ditch it. No way I'm buying a PS3 for the price of a 360, a Wii, and games.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2, Insightful)
well, that's misinformation right there. pc games have been doing this but after you install a game off 3 cd's it takes up more than 3cd's worth of room because of compression.
Warning: rant inside. (Score:2)
I've done this for everything I've got and I don't feel bad about it not one b
Re:Warning: rant inside. (Score:2)
But yes, no-cd patches are my favorite thing.
Barring that, I make a virtual image of the CD. (Apparently, having only a firewire dvd drive and no internal drives confuses just about every CD copy protection with the bonus of being easy to reach.)
Re:Warning: rant inside. (Score:2)
Since when did a publishing executive know the first thing about programming such a thing? They're not the ones who put it there.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:3, Informative)
Psssh... NOT IN ALL CASES. Unreal Tournament GOTY is exactly the same size on CD as it is on hard disk. The only thing that happens is file renaming and some registry editing, and you're done. Almost the same case with most id software games as well, up until Doom 3. Note I said ALMOST.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
If the game fits on one disk, there is no reason to compress it. If the game takes up more than that, you probably want to compress it. GPP spoke of a multi-disk game.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
That's true, however gpp was talking about multi-disc games.
Also he was talking about 1080p games which do need more room for all the stuff.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2, Insightful)
Several 1080p games can fit on a single floppy (Minesweeper, solitaire, etc). Unless there is pre-recorded full-motion video involved, there is *no* connection between data storage format and a game's output resolution.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
Mine sweeper has no hi-res textures which in fact do correlate disk size to output resolution. FMV are one portion of what makes a game require a large amoutn of space on disk. The other factor is Textures and 3d models. 3d models tend to be trivial but textures are immense.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
This isn't an option for Sony. The primary purpose of having Blu-Ray on the PS3 is to get the format into consumers' hands. Without the monopoly of Blu-Ray on the PS3, the head start HD-DVD has on it will make it all but impossible for Sony to get anywhere with Blu-Ray. Even if they drop Blu-Ray from only the cheaper PS3, they might as well officially raise the white flag in the next-gen DVD format wars.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
This is the point. Blu-Ray is looking poorly, even before it's out the door. It would be a pity to see them lose the console war as well, because they can't accept most of their players don't care about a Blu-Ray drive.
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
Re:The Blu-Ray curse (Score:2)
For the
Not the only manufacturer of Blu-Ray players (Score:5, Insightful)
Panasonic has one coming in September. Sony's lateness is not the sole barometer for the standard's success or failure.
How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if Blu-Ray drives themselves cause the PS3 delivery date to be pushed back, that would actually be a problem. When we see that news the headlined may apply. Until then, this is just more sensationalist FUD about Sony who has become Zonk's favorite whipping boy.
Re:How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:3, Informative)
On the contrary.
This is the company that thought it was acceptable to install rootkits on peoples' computers, as if the computers belonged to them, all in the name of preventing imagined losses that are their own faults for bad treatment of customers and for selling inferior products.
The faster they die the happier we should be.
Re:How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:2)
Re:How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:2)
Re:How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:2)
As for copying from GPU memory to main memory:
I'll quote myself from an ealier post abo
Re:How is that bad for the PS3? (Score:2)
Sony is EVIL (Score:2, Insightful)
What comes around, well, comes around.
Marketing? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Marketing? (Score:2)
Hm - looks like my plans to sell a PS3 on eBay this Christmas are going to be very profitable indeed....
Re:Marketing? (Score:2)
Re:Marketing? (Score:2)
The problem with this is simple: what percentage of potential Blu-ray purchasers are not going to be elitist?
The elitist group will go with the standalone player because the PS3 looks cheap. The non-elitist group doesn't buy early new technology anyway.
Re:Marketing? (Score:3, Insightful)
Whatever, Zonk (Score:4, Interesting)
Since unlike UMDs and other failed "Sony" formats of the past, Blu-Ray is not propreitary, it doesn't matter when Sony gets their player out. The Blu-Ray does not succeed or fall based on Sony alone; Sony delaying their personal player for six months makes no difference. While surely having two blu-ray players out at format launch would have been better than one from a consumer perspective, Sony's delay means effectively nothing except that early adopters interested in blu-ray will be buying a Samsung instead.
But hey, Zonk's never let little things like facts get in the way of his constant proclamations of doom and death for Sony and everything connected to them. So whatever. Rootkit rootkit rootkit $599 lol.
Re:Proprietary? (Score:2)
Proprietary doesn't mean that other people can't use it. It means that the specification is not an open standard, and must be licensed to be used.
Re: (Score:2)
Let's get it over with (Score:2, Informative)
include the (a) memory stick, (b) the customized (non-standard) firewire port,
(c) the universal
operating system of the AIBO, (d) the minidisc and, of course, (e) betamax. No doubt, there are other I can't think of or don't know about.
In almost every case, they are either failures or (worse) sources of ongoing frustration.
I thought Blu-ray had promise, but not I realize it is another one of these monstrosities. Maybe it had better just d
Not just a Sony format (Score:2)
Do people really want a new format? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Do people really want a new format? (Score:2)
Lets frame this agruement by using it when DVDs came out:
I think Phillip's biggest probl
Is schadenfreude OK? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was offended by Sony's horrible pricing for the PS3, not because the pricing was so high (although that was bad enough) but because of their response when people took issue: "So what? Sony fanboys are going to pay no matter what the price."
I was offended by Sony's blatant plagarism of the Wii controller, not because of the 2nd-rate implementation (although... you get the idea), but because of their flat-out lying about it: "We didn't copy Nintendo. We're the real innovators."
All of these situations have a common thread: arrogance. A cavalier disrespect for the customer. A lack of ethics. There are no laws that say companies must be ethical, or must respect the customer. So I guess we can write off Sony's behavior as "it's just business." But there are also no laws which say I have to buy into it. So I hope that what goes around, comes around.
-Tony
Schadenfreude but with cause: moral indignation? (Score:3, Interesting)
Whenever I've seen it used, "Schadenfreude" has implied pleasure in the suffering (or just difficulties) of others -- independent of whether those others deserved to suffer.
Wanting a company to fail because its actions are objectionable is far less amoral -- uh, more moral? -- than that. We're not rooting against Sony because it'll make us feel better about our own failings if they belly flop. We want them to fail because they're behaving in a way that actually offends our sense of how companies should ac
Where can I game? (Score:2, Interesting)
Not to worry, everyone wants the DRM (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll be using my inexpensive, less than $250 USD Wii, in the meantime, playing all the really cool games that knock my socks off.
But, on a good note, PS2 sales are still beating the xBox and xBox360 combined, after E3.
Much ado about nothing (Score:2)
According to wikipedia among the many horrific things they've done DRM-wise is a change where the keys on players may be dynamically updated once a key has been broken and new media distributed from that point will use new, unbroken keys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Digital_ rights_management
Now I'm not sure how easy it will be for the crackers to get these keys but if it's anything but routine than Linux user
Re:3rd Party Hardware? (Score:2)
Re:High price and delays part of strategy? (Score:2)
Re:High price and delays part of strategy? (Score:2)
Re:High price and delays part of strategy? (Score:2)
Re:High price and delays part of strategy? (Score:4, Insightful)
People buying the PS3 for games see a $500-600 system that's the most expensive "new console" out there. By a lot. Heck, there'll still be PS2 systems sitting on shelves this Christmas, and so now they've got to compare a $129 (if it doesn't drop to $99) system to a $500-600 system? Yah. So it's fair to say that the only section of this market they'll get are the ones that have loads of money to throw away, or Sony fanboys. By any measure, that's a niche portion of the market.
People buying the system for Blu-ray capabilities are going to start off as a small market anyway, as it's a $500-600 movie player. But at that point, you're getting someone who wants a top-end home theatre system, and is willing to throw money at it. Now there'll be $1000 standalone players, and a $500-600 PS3. Does Sony really think that those kind of people are going to be swayed by the "ooh, it's $400 cheaper" argument? Of course not - they spent $1500 on an HDTV with marginal amounts of programming available for it. They'll go after the $1000 Blu-ray player, which will be advertised as a "better player" than the PS3. Hint for any Circuit City employees, it's easy enough to just reference the PS2's disc read error issues as well as the poor quality of the DVD output and the compatibility issues it had with certain DVDs, and you'll get people looking at the Blu-ray player instead. So here, again, they're targeting a niche portion of a small market.
I think describing the PS3 as a "cheap" Blu-ray player is the easiest way to keep videophiles from buying them. They'd be better off with standalone Blu-ray players being $500-600. At $400 less, now they just look like there's something wrong with them.
Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, Microsoft and Nintendo are really screwing up... just ask any Sony fanboy - like, oh, YOU.
Half of the points you made are irrelevant until the consoles have actually been out for a couple years. Look at the first few titles for the GC, and then at the ones that have been coming out recently. MUCH improvement. Personally, I'm not really seeing that with the PS2. In fact, I'm seeing GC games that look better than PS2 gam
Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay (Score:2)
Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay (Score:2)
Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay (Score:5, Interesting)
*Plays 1080p HD BluRay movies over component cables... Until they implement HDCP...
*Plays 1080p games (which has been possible on PC for years)
*All the same exclusive games that 103+ million people bought Playstation 2s for (so why not just play them on that)
*Complate backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation games (when it decideds to work properly)
*Complete backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation 2 games (see above)
*Free online play for all non-MMORPG games. Nothing new here
*Linux. To what end? I'm sure it will be just as huge a success as Linux on PS2 was.......
*Webbrowsing in 1080p on your HD TV monitor and other desktop apps that you run in 1600x1200+ (higher than 1080p) on your PC
*Tilt controller that they copied from Nintendo
Compared to the 200-250 Wii which looks to be fun at parties and can produce graphics that are more than adequate, all the while maintaining an aura of FUN vs just being eye-candy.
Or the XBox 360 which will end up costing you over 700 bucks for the non-worthless version over four to five years, vs a system that will cost you well over $2000 up front to use it to its full potential ($600 for a non-crippled PS3, $200 for a few games, $1200+ on the low end for a TV that supports HDMI so you don't lose 1080p playback when HDCP is implemented). And that doesn't include a keyboard or mouse to actually USE the "other desktop apps" properly. Or the overpriced accessories.
Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay (Score:2)
Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay (Score:2, Interesting)
* Complete backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation games
* Complete backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation 2 games
I fail to see why people tout this as a reason to buy a PS3. Yes, I love my exclusive PS2 games...and I can continue to play them on my PS2, as I do now. That's not going to convince me to buy a PS3. I'm gonna buy a PS3 when there are games out that I want to play enough to justify the price of said ga
Re:logical decision (Score:3, Interesting)
"A few" is more than ZERO releases of BD movies, which I guess doesn't matter since there are ZERO BD players available to consumers for another couple of weeks anyways. Even with all the studios signed up for BD the loss of "first-mover" advantage presents a great challenge, and despite the number of studi
Re:logical decision (Score:2)
I've seen two Toshiba HD-DVD players on the market here (in the US if that is what you mean by 'here'). One is for $499 and the other for $799.
Re:What are they thinking? (Score:2)
You're just seeing the truths that many a young 12 yr old discovered after dishing out $100 for SONY Walkmans that died 4 months later. Just in time for the poor little kids to discover that the warranty had expired!
Re:Naturally (Score:2)
Why... what an original thought!
Yes, yes, you are the only one, because ironically only Mr. Anonymous Coward had the courage to think in such a new paradigm!
Re:Naturally (Score:2)
we're all going to look at the space limitations of the Wii and 360 and
wonder why Nintendo and Microsoft didn't think that a HD-DVD format was
a good idea.
The PS3 won't always be $600. When the price starts falling, the Wii
and 360 won't look like such good deals.
Granted, I'll probably get the Wii 2 years before I get a PS3, but I do
expect the PS3 to come into it's own.
Re:Naturally (Score:3, Insightful)
The flaw in your reasoning is the assumption that the PS3 will fall in price, but its competition won't. All consoles decline in price during their life cycle. The PS3 is more expensive now, and it will still be more expensive after price cuts.