Implants for Sensing Magnetic Fields 238
Okian Warrior writes "Wired is running a story about people who have magnets implanted in their fingertips. As a result they can sense ambient magnetic fields, including whether AC wires are carrying current. From the article: 'The fingertip was chosen because of the high nerve density, and because the hands are constantly interacting with the environment, increasing the chances of sensing electromagnetism in the world.'"
Yeah, but.... (Score:5, Funny)
Wait (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wait (Score:5, Informative)
I think this is actually similar to the active detection of electrical fields that many fish can do. Sharks have these "Ampules of Lorenzini" that they use to zero in on their pre from a distance by detecting the electrical signature of muscle contractions in a prey animal.
Re:Wait (Score:4, Funny)
Fish have built-in magnets?
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? As in, buying a huge neodymium magnet and goin' fishing?
Humans have them as well (Score:2, Interesting)
I believe the original source for my knowledge of this was some television program, but to save you some Go
I think I speak for all of us when I say... (Score:2)
Re:Humans have them as well (Score:3, Interesting)
Two questions:
1. If I put a supermagnet right next to my head, am I piersing microscopic holes through my brain? There should be some effect even with trace amounts, I suppose, even if not that drastic.
2. Where did this magnetite come from? I think my mother's diet didn't include magnetite, nor did mine. I suppose the organism will have to metabolise in a truly peculiar way to start with organic proteins and end with magnetite as well
Even worse (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wait (Score:2)
Also, in my article, the author mentioned how erie it was when he was able to detect the location of the motor in his electric can opener.
i can only ass
Re:Wait (Score:3, Interesting)
um.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:um.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:um.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Where's North? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know about you, but if I smash my fingers with a hammer it wouldn't be the chunks of metal that are on my mind.
Re:Where's North? (Score:2)
Magnetic tape backups? That's another story.
Goodbye Finger (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:3, Insightful)
I become slightly phobic of magnetic resonance imaging machines. The superpowerful electromagnets used in medical imaging can make metal fly across a room and stick, often for the hours it takes to power down the magnets. A person with an embedded magnet runs the risk of having their implant ripped out of their body.
So, I would imagine, um, that sort of thing, basically.
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:2)
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:4, Informative)
-nB
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:2, Interesting)
(The last part was added with a pen by some technician)
My ex-girlfriend had her head examined there, so I talked to a tech while she was in the scanner. He told me that it just takes ages to power it up again. And gave me a complimentary copy of a MRI image of my ex-girlfriends brain.
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:3, Interesting)
I was under the impression that an MRI machine can be shut down more or less instantly, and a series of emergency stop buttons are placed around it for precisely this reason. IIRC, an emergency shutdown runs the risk of damage to the machine, as all the coolant boils off, which is why medical staff presumably leave it energised and try to pry off it
Heh heh....wow I'm a geek. (Score:2)
Magneto: *bzzt* Now you don't.
Wolverine: Don't knock me out, I'll be knocked out enough when I hit the big sleep (bleeds everwhere).
LATER...
Woverine: *splurch* Hey bub, I got bone claws...
*snap* now you don't...
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:3, Funny)
Tell ME about it. Mine were adamantium!
Sincerely,
Wolverine.
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:2)
Re:Goodbye Finger (Score:3, Interesting)
There are so many problems with this idea it's hard to know where to start. Just think about those magnets in hard drives... I let two of them come together from about 1/4" away from each other, they pinched the skin on my finger, took a piece of it with them, and chipped themselves. If you get one of those stuck to your finger, expect severe injury. First of all, the polarity of a magnet that strong will be enough to make that little grain of magnet rotate in your finger immediately, that's going to feel
Imagine the possibilities... (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, and going through an MRI might be a little painful.
Re:Imagine the possibilities... (Score:3, Insightful)
A few days old - still interesting (Score:2)
Interesting, but creepy.
Re:A few days old - still interesting (Score:2)
Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:5, Funny)
Walk into the doctor's office wherever you are, just walk in, say "Doc -- you can mod any parts you want at Cyberdyne Restaurant" -- and walk out.
You know, if one Slashdotter, just one Slashdotter does it, they may think he's really sick and they won't take him.
And if two Slashdotters do it -- in harmony -- they may think that they're both TROLLIN' and they won't take either of them.
And if THREE Slashdotters do it! Can you imagine three Slashdotters walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Cyberdyne Restaurant" and walkin' out? They might think it's a HACKER CONSPIRACY.
And can you imagine FIFTY Slashdotters a day? I said FIFTY Slashdotters a day -- walkin' in, singin ' a bar of "Cyberdyne Restaruant" and walkin' out? Friends, they may think it's a movement, and that's what it is.
The Cyberdyne Systems T-800 Model 101 Trans-Humanist Movement!
And all you gotta do to join it is to mod me (+1, Funny) the next time the mod points come 'round on the thread view. With feelin'.
Re:Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:5, Funny)
Most Slashdotters are too young to know what a movement is.
-
Re:Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, though, most Slashdotters are probably too young to know Alice's Restaurant [wikipedia.org]
Re:Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:2)
KILL! KILL!
Re:Cyberdyne Restaurant (Score:2, Insightful)
Ouch (Score:3, Interesting)
-Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
Why implants? (Score:2, Interesting)
Great idea (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Great idea (Score:2)
Why they didn't think of pulling it out with another magnet I wouldn't know. After all, that's the big fear with having them near an operating MRI, right?
Anyway, even if I could power small electronic devices by repeatedly shoving my magnet-embedded finger in and out of a copper coil (electromagnetic induction), I'd still
Captain Cyborg will be furious (Score:2)
Augmenting our senses is nothing new. Pigeons can sense magnetic fields, so why not us?
Duh (Score:2)
And you didn't think to get really, really drunk before why...?
-Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
Re:Duh (Score:2)
Re:Duh (Score:2)
Lust! (Score:2)
Got two steel bars in my back already - shame I don't get any extra sensory information from them, apart from "hey, your back aches!"
Re:Lust! (Score:4, Funny)
Are you in Cirque Du Soleil?
Re:Lust! (Score:2)
Might be somewhat limiting in other ways... (Score:2, Interesting)
You might erase your credit cards everytime you hand one to someone.
And you'll never get rid of those damn iron filings.
G.
Re:Might be somewhat limiting in other ways... (Score:2)
Actually, instead of ripping you across the room, I think the MRI would do exactely this.
It'll just kinda ignore the tissue inbetween or any pain that tissue might experience upon being ripped apart.
Re: (Score:2)
Places you couldn't go (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and no MRIs either.
So in terms of implants... (Score:2, Funny)
magnetic implants meet silicon implants... (Score:3, Funny)
Hey, baby, wanna see my magnet? (Score:2)
If only chicks were made of metal...
Re:Hey, baby, wanna see my magnet? (Score:2)
They are (Score:3, Funny)
Oh yeah? (Score:3, Insightful)
And how many superpowers do you have Zonk? If it could be made safer (I'm a science teacher and have a few magnets in the lab that could rip this out of my finger) I'd get one in a second.
-Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
As if.... (Score:2, Funny)
Oh well, at least then I would have an excuse
Scientific approach (Score:2)
Jarrell puts it more bluntly, writing about the procedure in a BMEZine article from March: "'If you had to lose or seriously damage one of your fingers, which would it be?' This was our answer." But nobody's finger fell off, and Huffman's results were better than they'd imagined.
Other scientists should really learn from those guys.
Re:Scientific approach (Score:2)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:3, Insightful)
In case this sounds like a good idea... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:In case this sounds like a good idea... (Score:2)
Personally, I do think it's a good idea, and can't wait for the day that it is considered safe enough for a majority of people. I would try to be amongst the first to implant this.
Re:In case this sounds like a good idea... (Score:2)
It will NEVER be safe. If you have metallic implants, especially magnets, you can never get a CAT scan again. Woe betide you if you are unconscious when they bring you in, and they decide to scan you to find out if you've got internal injuries, because if you don't already, you certainly will then.
It is never acceptable to have magnetically sensitive materials (whether that's a magnet, or something that can be magnetized) implanted anywhere in the body - it's just completely wrongheaded.
Of course, yo
Re:In case this sounds like a good idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
I just had to reply to this thread after reading the bmezine article.
Here's the summary of my opinion: "Children do not try this at home. Hell, don't even try this at your good friends home like the original idiot did."
Frankly, this guy is an idiot. The first thing that came to my mind when seeing his fingertip was: Blood infection. Bright red, vascular looking, painful... blood infection. This is NOT something you should take to your "body-mod" friend to be "fixed". This is flat out an emergency room visit. I'm not a medical doctor but if this is a blood infection it has the ability to travel quickly, infect organs and cause death in a surprisingly rapid fashion.
This is something that needs professional medical equipment to make sure the damage is repaired properly. He's "guessing" they migrated together... He needs an X-ray, not a guess. He needs this for several reasons. To pinpoint where the damage and pieces are so they can be removed with minimal invasion instead of poking around until you've found it all. He also needs follow-up X-rays to confirm that all pieces were found and removed.
I certainly would not go to my body-mod (oh hell, let's just call a spade a spade... body-hack) for the repair. For best results I would be looking for this to be done by a vascular surgeon or neurologist so that I have the best chance of not loosing any senesitivity in my finger and preventing any vascular damage that could result in necrosis.
He needs this to be done in a sterile environment not on somebody's desk. He risks an equal or worse post-hack infection (that would sort of be like a post-surgical secondary infection but this was NOT surgery; this was an adult being stupid.)
I hope most slashdotters don't think this is cool, cause it's not.
Re:In case this sounds like a good idea... (Score:5, Informative)
Tom Brazda is no "hack". He is one of a handful of people who PIONEERED the modern body modification scene. He invented a lot of the tools and techniques that can be found in any piercing studio on the beach today. He helped push the industry to its limits, while also helping spread word about how to do things as safely and carefully as possible. People like Tom are the reason every respectable studio on the planet has an autoclave.
Second, Shannon Larratt is no idiot. A risk taker, sure. Someone who uses his own body as a testbed for the untried? Absolutely. But an idiot? Not a chance. He knows exactly what he's doing, and he knows the risks. He's written countless articles about the safety aspects of piercings, tattoos, and more extreme body modifications. He's quite well aware of the risks, and indeed most likely purposely chose to have Tom do the removal because that way he could document every step of the process for others to learn.
Third - read the article more carefully. Another person with the same implant went to a doctor to have it removed. The Dr. fucked it up. The local emergency room person may or may not do the same. The problem with Doctors is, just like everything else in the world - there are ones who are good, and there are ones who are not. A perfect example of this is doctors who tell people with an infected piercing to remove it and shoot them up with antibiotics. This can often be a VERY bad idea, because the piercing can no longer be properly cleaned, AND it can no longer drain. You better hope those antibiotics work, because the good Doc has just taken away all but one of your treatment options.
And last but not least - your quip about a sterile environment shows just how clueless you are. Any good quality piercer will have sterility routines that put your average family practice doctor to shame. EVERYTHING is autoclaved, needles are disposed of in proper medical sharps containers, studios are kept immaculately clean and gloves are changed CONSTANTLY during a procedure.
My piercier practices better hygiene than my oral surgeon.
Re:In case this sounds like a good idea... (Score:2, Interesting)
Well (Score:5, Interesting)
1. detect the signal pattern for pain and cancel it out
2. interact with novel gadgets like a magnetic or radio field sensor, or a geiger counter
3. Pick up signals from one part of the body, and transmit them to another chip located in a damaged limb somewhere that the nerves have been cut from
All of this is basic signal processing, simpler than the state of the art in radio by a considerable margin (nerve signals are MUCH, MUCH slower)
I don't understand why this sort of thing isn't routinely done. I know there are implantable nerve stimulators to stop phantom limb pain, I know that surgeons don't need FDA approval to perform trials on gadets like this - they just need a researcher to create a prototype that is appropriately coated with bioneutral materials and sterile, and the surgeon can implant it into any consenting adult. Surgery is not a medical procedure that has to be specifically approved : this is how the variants of the gastic bypass were developed, such as the bands around the stomach approach. A particular surgeon decided to try it, and others adopted it.
Should be a whole thriving industry by now.
better (Score:2)
put a small speaker on the jawbown.. run a wire under the skin to the thigh or armpit..- then a small coil close to the surface of the skin...
now put another coil (transformer) on the outside.. and you have two-way radio with no coil coming out of the ears...
nano-implants? (Score:2)
So imagine a future where nanoscopic coils, or maybe thin-film nanomagnet arrays can be implanted under your skin. Or behind your ears, so you can sense magnetic fields in 3D.
Let's not forget that some animals are sensitive to magnetic fields [uiuc.edu], and others can sense electricity miles away [wikipedia.org].
I think I'd prefer something external... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I think I'd prefer something external... (Score:2)
That's just what I was thinking.
I don't want a magnet *in* my finger, but I'd love a way to sense magnetic fields that was entirely external. I wonder if the nerve endings inside the finger are that much more sensitive that it wouldn't work outside the finger. (/me needs to go find a very small magnet and a piece of Scotch tape.)
Re:I think I'd prefer something external... (Score:2, Interesting)
Interesting uses... (Score:3, Interesting)
So what other kind of input could this give you. If you implanted one in each hand of a def person, might he eventually be able to hear if he put his fingers near to a speaker magnet? If I were def, I'd totally give that a try--you never know! I wonder if such an implant could be placed inside the ear, maybe returning the ability to hear completely (as long as the sound was broadcast via magnetism like if the user was wearing headphones.
How about an extra input from your computer. Placing tiny electro-magnets under some of your keys could allow the keyboard to give you a little buzz that nobody else could perceive.
Any others?
Re:Interesting uses... (Score:2, Insightful)
In almost any case I can think of I do not see any point to
Re:Interesting uses... (Score:3, Informative)
Only Magnetic Fields? (Score:2)
Implant for perfect pitch? (Score:2)
Could this work?
Re:Implant for perfect pitch? (Score:2)
This type of implant doesn't need to be inside the body. You could make the device small and place it on your chin or something. Although the early version would look a lot like a normal headset that gives you some kind of sound cue feedback. Heck, you could do it with a normal headset and a computer program (if the headset were good enough). It would be pretty easy to do. Sounds like a pretty okay way to get
Human Compasses (Score:2, Funny)
"Dammit! I know where we are! We just need to head north, which is
Hoax? (Score:3, Informative)
I still need to install a ceiling lamp in the bedroom. There's no current flowing there now. The electricity company therefore doesn't charge me anything for the power being hooked up there. If there's no current, no magnet will vibrate, because it is the current (in Amperes) that causes the magnetic fields. But the electricity company does deliver me the required power for the lamp. Therefore, the connection has countless electrons waiting charged with anticipation before I poke a screwdriver into the hole. Without telling my magnet that they are so charged with anticipation, they wait for the moment that they can jump onto my well-conducting finger, to run to earth through my body. Free at last!
One slight drawback remains to be mentioned. My iBook has a magnetic detector on the right of the keyboard which detects when the screen is closed. I now have to press "Enter" with my left hand, because approaching the magnet with my right hand puts my iBook to sleep. So while my bionic magnetic finger doesn't detect anything, my iBook does detect it.
Re:Hoax? (Score:2)
Glued. On the outside. I wouldnt call that "tried it out". It's kind of essential that it is a strong magnet surrounded by your nerve endings. Not elasticly bonded to an elastic surface - ie skin. And just to mention it again - strong magnets... neodym or whatever they where called. Not the household 'stick things to your fridge and watch them fall off' kind of things he seemed to be using.
So I wouldnt put much thought into this dudes observations, although I wouldnt recommen
Why implant the device? (Score:3, Interesting)
It works by stimulating via vibration "somatosensory apparatus" (ie touch), which to the best of my knowledge IS available on the outside of the finger -it should work by being strapped to the outside. Albeit it is not as cool and cyberpunk sounding, but it does remove EVERY SINGLE NEGATIVE POINT associated with the device (painful surgery, risk or rejection, no more MRIs, etc)
I can feel magnetic fields without a finger magnet (Score:2)
So... (Score:3, Funny)
Star Trek reference (Score:2)
I tell ya though, we geeks need better options. I mean, suppsoing my hand were to get chopped off tomorrow in a bizzare gardening accident.
Now, I'd want a full set of cybernetic impants - who wouldn't? But if this is the best there is to offer...
Just in time against the Wiretapping Bills (Score:2)
*Feel Feel* *Sense Sense*
Destroying bankcards. (Score:2)
Reminds me of a idea I had a long time ago (Score:2, Interesting)
met Todd (Score:3, Funny)
Some friend of his whose a girl: The magnet in his arm gets him laid all the time, ask him.
Me: So do you get laid a lot because you have the magnet.
Todd: It isn't like I get laid from it everyday, but yeah once in awhile.
All my friends in near unison: I want a magnet in my arm.
hand me that floppy disk.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The Penis is next (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The Penis is next (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The Penis is next (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Thankfully good magnet news..... (Score:2)
Yes! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Just another small step... (Score:2)