Low Emission Cars Continue to Gain Popularity 744
Rio writes "A company may soon offer American motorists a new option to save on high gas prices -- vehicles powered by lithium batteries. From the article: 'Just plug in these cars for about five hours or so and you'll get about 300 miles on a single charge.' The vehicles cost about $35,000 or about double what buyers would pay for a gas-powered model." Relatedly acidrain writes to tell us The BBC is reporting that a prototype of the new "Clever car" (Compact Low Emission Vehicle for Urban Transport) is starting to make the rounds on European test tracks. The car is one meter wide and less polluting than normal vehicles. It has a top speed of 100 km/h (60mph) and uses a novel tilting chassis to make it safe and maneuverable.
BMW C-1 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Insightful)
a) you don't act like a fucking idiot
b) soccer moms in behemoth SUVs stop talking on their phones long enough to see you.
A is probably easier than b though...at least if you live in the states.
And Smart cars can get up to 60 mpg on regular unleaded(though YMMV). These kinds of vehicles just seem like an odd crossover between motorcycles and smart cars.
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:5, Insightful)
He went on to explain that he had been riding bikes for 20+ years, and had never been in an accident. When you think about it, it rings true.
I have explained this to my children, but have expanded it to be inclusive of all motor vehicle activity. Never assume that the other person on the road can see you. Do the thinking for every driver within your range of vision, and you will be much safer.
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Insightful)
My version is assume they are all out to kill you.
It is quite scary they way a car driver can pull up at the stop sign on the side road, look directly at you then continue through the stop sign cutting you off. Headlight off, headlight on, dark coloured clothes, light coloured clothes the cars drivers just don't see you.
But then look at the number of car drivers pull out in front on a semi because they did not see it. If they don't even see large trucks what chance do motorcycles have?
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Funny)
You're right. Even after adding loud pipes and bright paint to the list.
That's why I resorted to hanging carnival lights all around my bike and playing loud circus music from PA horns mounted on the handlebars (think trombones and sousaphones). If that don't get their attention, I'll probably have to resort to putting on the clown suit next.....
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Funny)
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:5, Funny)
So, you're saying motorcycles are safe provided their riders never make mistakes and provided that all other drivers on the road start behaving sensibly. Well, neither is gonna happen, which means that motorcycles remain risky.
Munich for breakfast, Tokyo for lunch, NYC for dinner.
You're... Godzilla?
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Funny)
Whilst driving to Guildford from Kingston yesterday morning, on the A3, I was being tailed by a large people carrier with a "lady" holding a mobile (cell) phone to her ear. I indicated that I had seen her vehicular faux pax in the usual way (pretended to hold a phone to my ear, etc).
She pulled up along side me and wound down her window to harange me whilst we were both driving along in heavy traffic at 30 or 40 MPH. Apparently, it's none of my "f***ing" business what the numb-nuts in the vehicle behind is doing and I should, apparently, mind my own "f***ing" business (now you know why I put "lady" in quotes!).
It was at this point that I noticed the small and frightened looking, girl in the front passenger seat.
With people like this on the road I think I'll stick to cars thanks very much!
Interestingly, there was just the psycho-mom and the small girl in the 7 seater people carrier too ... so, two stereotypes for the price of one! Best value on the A3 today! Get 'em while they're hot, they're lovely!
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Informative)
In the UK (where this incident took place) using a mobile 'phone while driving is illegal. If she were caught she would be subject to a £30 fixed penalty (or a fine of up to £1000 if she took it to court). There are currently proposals to increase the fixed penalty to £60 and three license points (if you get 12 points you lose your license).
A polite warning that you are doing something illegal is generally considered helpful. Personally, I would just have noted her registration and got a passenger to call it in to the police, but then I'm probably more of a bastard than the original poster.
Re:BMW C-1 (Score:4, Interesting)
as are 20% of road fatalities.
Done before (20 years ago!) (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.sinclairc5.com.nyud.net:8080/ [nyud.net]
I'd be terrified of being smushed by a truck while driving one.
Re:Done before (20 years ago!) (Score:5, Funny)
Which is why every American feels the need to own a car that's bigger than the median car on the road. I say seatbelts should be forbidden on SUVs, while Hummer-type vehicles should be required to have a blade coming out of the steering wheel. Now, *that* would even the chance in case of a crash.
Re:Done before (20 years ago!) (Score:5, Interesting)
The Hummer chassis is incapable of absorbing its own impact energy after a crash. Making a car very big does not necessarily make it safe and vice versa. The Hummer has not been formally tested to EURONCAP, but it is likely to have a lower safety score than nearly all cars on the EU market. I have seen a hummer smashed at 30mph into a rock wall and it looks pretty much like this: http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/de
A selfrespecting moderately safe car should look at least like this: http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/de
or like this:http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratin
Re:Done before (20 years ago!) (Score:3, Insightful)
Not quite. While I agree that this class of vehicle is more dangerous in itself (not colliding with other cars), the thing is that in a collision between a Hummer and a car, the car will still suffer most of the damage. Vehicles like that and even "regular" SUVs are a real danger on the roads. The whole thing has become a sort of arms race about whoever can feel the safest by knowing they'll "win" in the event of a collision.
Re:Done before (20 years ago!) (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.lotpro.com/cars/2006/hummer/h3/safety/ [lotpro.com]
The NHTSA gives the H3 4 to 5 stars for front and side impacts.. 5 starts being the best in that vehicle class.
The front impact looks like it takes most the abuse: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/3682.html [dot.gov]
Maybe your aricles are a little "anti" sided perhaps? Of course.. you only said "Hummer" so maybe you mean the orignal.. these are H3 numbers.
Re:Done before (20 years ago!) (Score:3, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer [wikipedia.org]
In 1991, AM General began selling a civilian version of the M998 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV or Hum-Vee) vehicle to the public under the brand name Hummer.
Wondeful days / Sky Blue (Score:3, Interesting)
Why do people and specially americans always think that "bigger" always means "more secure" ?
and... (Score:5, Insightful)
What is this going to do to the power grid which has been known to collapse, famously with the northeast blackout and the rolling blackouts in California?
How about the transmission line waste? What if I let my car sit for a week or two?
Aren't these the batteries that tend to explode if you look at them funny?
Just what does battery production do to the environment? How about leaks and recycling?
Re:and... (Score:3, Insightful)
Any new system will have problems, but this sounds like a step in the right direction.
Sadly, its always the extreme versions like this that get the PR. I wouldnt have bought a C5, and I wouldnt drive this, or even a Smart Car, but given a choice betw
Re:and... (Score:2)
Who modded this insightful? Can somebody please point out the insight for me?
You've answered not one of the concerns raised about electric cars. Please explain how an electric car can take energy from chemical to kinetic to electric to chemical to electric to kinetic and possibly be more efficient or cleaner for the environment than a gas car. There is absolutely no way that this is a step in the right direction until we h
Re:and... (Score:3, Interesting)
-Solar
-Hydroelectric
-Wind
-Tidal
-Bio-fuels (I know..right now they burn as much energy in production as you get out of the final product)
-Nuclear (In some countries)
Re:and... (Score:3, Insightful)
Electric cars don't burn energy while sitting at traffic lights.
Re:and... (Score:3, Interesting)
CCGT (>50% thermal-electrial efficiency)
Peak efficiency of IC auto engines is pretty irrelevant in real world use. Expect to see less than 15 percent efficiency for normal driving.
Regenerative braking (yeah, hybrids do this too, but still suffer from the above disadvantages).
The disadvantage of highly efficient vehicles (electric and others), is you then start having to be 'inefficient' with energy use
Re:and... (Score:5, Insightful)
So its a step in the right direction.
Re:and... (Score:3, Interesting)
As for efficiency. Gasoline powered cars are in overall about 15% efficient.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml [fueleconomy.gov]
The electricity tranportation is over 98% efficient. The electrical engines are over 90% efficient, and can be done without gearbox and regenerate at braking. And the batteries have upto 95% efficiency.
So with fossile fuel plants that are in range of 600MW can get efficiency of 60% . There is big difference here.
So its basicly
It's simple (Score:5, Funny)
You get yourself a backup diesel generator.
Re:and... (Score:5, Informative)
Known to collapse during the day, when the ACs are cranked. If the electric cars start causing the power companies problems they just move their off-peak rate breaks to the morning, and the owners just install a timer (actually with cars like this the timer is usually built into the charging station) Then they can recharge using all that extra baseload capacity that ends up going to waste because we can't just shut down coal and nuke plants when we aren't using them, unlike combined cycle spinning reserve.
> How about the transmission line waste?
Yep that's waste, for sure.
> What if I let my car sit for a week or two?
Lithium batteries are famous for not self-discharging very fast. It's NiMH that do that, and even then it takes more than a week or two to lose very large amounts of power.
> Aren't these the batteries that tend to explode if you look at them funny?
Li-Poly are touchy, however the new Li metal phosphate batteries are very stable, and considering their superior performance they will likely supplant Li-poly for this application very rapidly.
> Just what does battery production do to the environment? How about leaks and recycling?
Well, to answer the second question first, normal lead-acid car batteries are one of the biggest success stories in recycling ever. When you own a battery pack that large, you're damn sure going to recycle it because the scrap value is pretty high. These aren't camera batteries you don't just throw them out.
As to the "leaks" concern, modern non-lead-acid batteries rarely "leak" -- their insides aren't liquid in the first place and they tend to be in hermetically sealed metal cylinders. It takes a lot of effort to get them to spill their guts. I suppose if you make a habit of parking your dead cars on your lawn and allowing the body to rust such that the batteries get a bath every time it rains, in a decade or so you might actually manage to generate an evironmental hazard. People that do that are pretty rare though, especially when the salvage value of the battery is so high, and for the most part the neighbors will complain before that happens.
The fabrication is not especially environmentally destructive. Li is mined from some of the most barren areas on the planet (dry lakebeds in South America.) The rest of the chemicals and materials are fairly common and probably even have a market surplus problem as is. There is some concern in that the supply of minable Li is limited, but by the time it is exhausted decades will have passed and we'll be onto the next battery tech or fuel cell or whatnot.
Anyway, pure EVs and PHEVs (where fuel use is low enough to consider biofuel without too much inconvenience) are an important first step, not necessarily because they will be cleaner on face value, but because they open up the owner's option. The owner could buy renewable energy credits from the power company, or they could charge from solar panels, or like I said for PHEVs they could use biofuels since they don't have to fill up much/often. It's that flexibility that will finally put the automobile owner in control of their own energy choices. That's a heck of a lot better of a situation than we have now.
Re:and... (Score:3, Informative)
Li in any shape or form is toxic noxious substance and getting it out of the old batteries into new ones is going to defeat most of the environmental advantages of electrical and hybrid cards in the long term.
I would much rather look into getting more suitable storage options for hydrogen, biofuels or biofuel derivatives.
Re:and... (Score:2)
Re:and... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, by all accounts- much less. Electricity doesn't have the insane levels of taxes gasolene and diesel do (this is the primary reason it costs a fortune to fill up at the pump.) Even home heating oil (which is basically diesel) isn't taxed, and they dye diesel so anyone can inspect what's in the tank (or a piece of clear tubing installed just for this purpose- I kid you not, it's on ever VW TDI) and see if you're using home heating oil and avoiding taxes.
What is this going to do to the power grid which has been known to collapse, famously with the northeast blackout and the rolling blackouts in California?
Rolling blackouts in California were not caused by lack of generation capacity. They were caused by Enron calling up plant operators and saying "Hey. Shut down for maintenance. Find an excuse. Any excuse." Watch "Enron, The Smartest Guys In The Room"...they have tape recordings of the traders calling up grids and plant.
Also, right now, we've got gas shortages throughout the country because the EPA mandates MTBE (a known carcinogen, by the way) be in summer fuel, so all the refineries supposedly have to essentially "re-tool" for summer fuel. They happen to also go down for maintenance in "preparation" for the summer driving "season."
So in short- gasolene isn't without its problems as well.
How about the transmission line waste?
Probably compares to the waste in transporting gasolene or diesel.
What if I let my car sit for a week or two?
Lithium batteries don't self-discharge as badly as other battery technologies (mainly lead acid.)
Aren't these the batteries that tend to explode if you look at them funny?
Sort of. "Normal" lithium ion cells catch fire or explode if overcharged, discharged too quickly, charged too quickly, punctured, and so on. They vary greatly in what their discharge rating is (ie 5C,= 5 x capacity in Amp-Hours). There's a company in Japan that seems to have solved most of these problems with stability; I forget how. There's a Massachusetts startup that designed the packs in one of the tool manufacturer's new lithium ion construction tools; they claim insane recharge rates, and more safety as well (and using more common raw materials.)
As to your other questions, no idea. But I will tell you that for a few years, EMTs and firefighters were pissed as hell that Toyota and Honda didn't have a clue as to accident procedures involving hybrids with high voltage packs...ie what was safe to cut with a buzz-saw or jaws of life (ie roof pillars and such), where the cables were, how the battery pack contactors worked, and so on. For a while, departments had a "don't approach the vehicle if..." policies in place.
Re:and... (Score:3, Informative)
And not a single prosection. Caught red-handed enacting possibly one of the largest, most ongoing acts of economic sabotage in world history and they got away scott free. Big companies truel
Re:and... (Score:3, Interesting)
No one's been charged for deliberate economic sabotage to the businesses and private citizens of California. Essentially, they're getting away scott free on this issue, which I think is perhaps more sinister. Read more quotes [alternet.org] from the case and note how the Guvernator didn't take them to task for blatant screwing over of California.
Gray Davis lost his election over the energy crisis, and Schwartzenegger does nothing to punish the parties responsible. I
Puhleeze. (Score:5, Informative)
Both Toyota and Honda were and are exquisitely well-aware of accident procedures involving their cars; that's why the high-voltage lines in the Prius are armored International Orange cables isolated from the ground of the chassis, surrounded by identified conduit, and centered under the car floor, where the jaws of life and other EMT tools are least likely to be used. The battery itself is placed in the statistically safest place in the car (just over the rear axle), and protects first responders by an accelerometer-based circuit breaker, a Ground Fault Interrupter, and interlocks. Criminy, what do you want?
Re:and... (Score:3, Informative)
That's BS, they do not. MTBE is not even allowed to be used, sold, or imported into NY state. I am pretty sure Connecticut is the same way, not sure of any others. http://www.pcnr.com/News/2000/0531/Front_Page/may 3 1Front_Page5670.html [pcnr.com] If you live in a state which still allows MTBE maybe you should contact your legislators and push them to stop!
From http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm [epa.gov]:
The Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 (CAA) require
Re:and... (Score:3, Informative)
An EV on the highway uses about 20KW of electric power. 300 miles at 60MPH is about 5 hours. Simple math says about 20KW X 5 = 100 KWH. A KWH in many palces is about 15 cents in the US. 100 X $0.15 is about $15. It seems to be less than a tank of gas by quite a bit.
What is this going to do to the power grid which has been known to collapse, famously with the northeast blackout and the rolling blackouts in California?
As with any unstable power source having a redundant st
Re:and... (Score:3, Interesting)
The lithium bateries that have been exploding are cheap Asian garbage batteries that people have been buying off of Ebay for $2 instead of the OEM ones for $40
Finally if lithium battery production becomes much like lead acid batteries is currently, the recycle rate will hit near 90% after only a few years.
New exciting developments in transportation (Score:3, Funny)
Re:and... (Score:2)
Compared to Coal and Hydro plants oil fired plants generate very little electrical power. With the possible arrival of
Re:and... (Score:2)
(Not to take away from your main point, though, which is that natural gas is indeed a fossil fuel, and non (or not easily) renewable.)
BTW, the second vehicle in the summary, the Clever, runs on pressurized natural gas. Top speed of 60 mph and 0-40 mph in seven seconds. Pretty lousy performance in my opinion. I'll stick with my 250cc motorcycle, which tops out around 75 mph, and gets over 50 mph. I don't know what the acceleration is, alth
Re:and... (Score:2)
I've never known a battery that didn't lose the charge after a while. That counts against the efficiency. Here in the USA, many people have "extra" cars that are rarely used. What is it going to take to keep them topped off? The gasoline cars don't normally leak fuel, and we get them repaired when they do.
Re:and... (Score:2)
Those are cute... maybe too cute. (Score:3, Informative)
Conflicting Information (Score:2)
Also, while I appreciate the clever name, isn't this more than an Low Emission Car? Isn't it entirely electric?
Re:Conflicting Information (Score:3, Funny)
It must have been designed by NASA. I see stuff like this all the time in their specs for craft to be sent to Mars.
Your clever car ran out of gas? (Score:2)
The second car, the Clever, runs on pressurized natural gas. Therefore, low emissions.
Battery Disposal? (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Battery Disposal? (Score:3, Informative)
Car or... (Score:2, Insightful)
Judging from the photos, doesn't look like this thing has ANY trunk/passenger/leg/head space. Other than that, it looks great and I can't wait to buy one[/sarcasm]
Re:Car or... (Score:2)
Here in Vancouver the Swatch/Mercedes Smart Car seems to be selling briskly. While I noticed a few in truck-happy Alberta, there're all over the place in the GVRD.
A lot of businesses use them as company cars and them seem to hold their own during rush hour traffic. Of course parking is a breeze too.
I'd imagine even something like a souped-up go-kart would have a lot of appeal among the granola types here
Anything not in "mobile coffin/underpowered" size? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not all of us care to drive something that would result in a guaranteed pre-packaged closed casket burial in the event of the Absolutely Unavoidable Collision- especially if such vehicle performs in a manner that would predispose it to being a 5'x8'x5' object with relative ease in ordinary operation.
Re:Citroen Stop & Start for example (Score:3, Interesting)
Valuable Lithion-Ion Batteries = Bigger Theft Risk (Score:3, Insightful)
Not unlike Star Trak era Lithium Crystals, I suspect that
crim's will go after such vehicles for their energy banks.
More value also pushes up the cost of insurance for them.
How do fuel-cell technologies work in this app'n domain?
What do Toyota Priams run on, Lithium Cells or Fuel Cells?
Re:Valuable Lithion-Ion Batteries = Bigger Theft R (Score:2)
Don't you know that this is slashdot? Geeks hang out here.
It's Dilithium [wikipedia.org], bitch!
LK
Re:Valuable Lithion-Ion Batteries = Bigger Theft R (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Valuable Lithion-Ion Batteries = Bigger Theft R (Score:2)
If the Li-ion batteries last as long as the Prius batteries (>200,000 miles in severe real world service) there won't be much of a black market.
If there's a significant black market, then the chop shop operators will end up either educated or dead. A battery pack suitable for running a normal-sized car can deliver more current at higher voltage than the service entrance to your house. We're not talking jolts here, we're ta
Car that lasts about 150 days (Score:3, Insightful)
Would you buy a car that would only last you 150 days before very costly repairs? QED
Scylla and Charybdis (Score:2)
I get different estimates running the arithmetic differently. If the range on "a charge" is 300 miles, then 100 cycles is 30,000 miles. There's some Toshiba vaporware [dpreview.com] which is supposedly good for a thousand cycles. That would mean 300,000 miles, during which you'd be exempt from replacing the head gasket, the alternator, the starter, the cataly
Mwahaha ! (Score:5, Funny)
too slow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:too slow (Score:2)
Re:too slow (Score:3, Funny)
You think that's bad!
I had to drive home at 60mph, in an electric car, wearing sandles, put the car on the charger when I got home, harvest some hemp and weave my own supper before going to bed in a hammock with my hairy wife ... er ... on the central reservation ... er ... red wine or something ...
Is that the method of transport for it? (Score:4, Funny)
Is that part of the name or an instruction for fellow drivers on what to do to a low-emissions vehicle?
"Relatedly" is NOT a word (Score:3, Insightful)
</language nazi>
Re:"Relatedly" is NOT a word (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"Relatedly" is NOT a word (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Relatedly" is NOT a word (Score:3, Insightful)
Better luck next rant!
Top Speed (Score:3, Informative)
Don't Forget (Score:3, Insightful)
This would be perfectly fabulous if there were federal regulations on vehicle sizes permitted in urban or other zones, but it sounds like a logistic nightmare for lawmakers to get a gradual migration to this going at any level that would prove effective. It's not really a phased migration thing. You can't put such a small car on roads with normal compact and larger cars. It's a safety nightmare. You can't really build a whole additional set of roads for these things other since municipalities like mine are already looking at $700 million dollar annual deficits.
Time to visit Europe!
Odd (Score:3, Insightful)
Secondly,
Clever Car = Carver (Score:4, Informative)
Drivetrain asside, the vehicle is effectively a clone the dutch-designed Carver http://www.carver-europe.com/ [carver-europe.com].
So, why am I accusing that BBC journalist of being lazy? Well, the Carver has appeared on the BBC excellent flagship car show Top Gear http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog19/carver.shtml>
Re:Clever Car = Carver (Score:2)
It is really sad that they claim this is innovative when it is Carver that had a working design first.
doing my part (Score:4, Funny)
Re:doing my part (Score:2)
Well duh. Hybrids still swallow less energy in use than normal cars (or SUVs, for that matter). The creation of both hybrids and normal gas guzzlers probably takes as much energy, so there is a difference. We aren't going to get cars built with zero energy any time soon, anyway.
From an extreme environmentalist's point of view the only solution would be to dump car
Re:doing my part (Score:5, Informative)
According to Toyota - and the company is commendably frank about its car's environmental equations - Prius doesn't even begin to break even on greenhouse gas emissions until it's been driven around 20,000km. This is because extracting and manufacturing the raw materials to make a Prius consumes more energy than a conventional car. The extra energy required means more carbon dioxide is emitted to make a Prius than a conventional technology car.
So no, hybrid cars don't grow on trees, but they do win in the end on total emission. Toyota cars are known for their reliability (the main German automobile organization have found toyota to be the top reliable car for years in a row already), so expect them to overcome this 20.000 km barrier many, many times over. (estimated battery life seems to be about 160.000km [wikipedia.org] at minimum).
Re:doing my part (Score:3, Interesting)
Very funny - but the whole point is about shifting the pollution out of the CBD and shifting the power consumption to the middle of the night when those base load stations are still running (hot things that take hours to cool down) but not much power is being consumed.
The first hybrid car I saw was to be used in a lead mine - fuel outside and electric undergro
People want ordinary cars... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think these special vehicles like TFA car will achieve any real commercial success. Most people want a safe, comfortable and practical car. And you most certainly don't want anybody to laugh at you while riding it...
No, I believe the future (until fuel cells are available) lays in hybrids [hybridcars.com], like the Toyota Prius, even though they're still not completely environmental friendly - fuel consumption is not better than most diesel powered cars. But battery powered only cars have their problems as well, darn expensive, well you have to plan your trips carefully, batteries have a limited life span and probably more important batteries are not environmental friendly.
Here [autoblog.com] is an interesting hybrid from Saab, running on 100% ethanol and batteries. It's a good looking convertible, and runs 0-100 km/h in just 6.9 seconds, not very bad from a fossil fuel-free car. Only problem is that 1) you can't buy the car yet 2) you can't buy 100% ethanol (and producing large amounts of ethanol is also a problem).
Screw that... (Score:2)
Its engine is the Honda 2.0 litre Vtec engine. Fast _and_ economical (It's a 4 banger, after all). If I was to blow an equivalent wad of cash on an impractical car like that mentioned in TFA that has half its value in the silly _battery pack_, I'd much rather spend it on something _fun_ and impractical.
--
BMO
Re:Screw that... (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a bike. My argument was that if I was going to blow the thousands on a so-called green car (which really only just moves the pollution back to the generating facility, most likely meaning you're burning dead dinosaurs anyway), which is almost as expensive as the Ariel, I'd take the Ariel and the horsepower of a 4 banger Honda engine. TYVM.
I do have a bicycle, btw. Cannondale 800 Flat Bar. Egg beaters. Ksyrium Elite wheels. Brooks Pro saddl
Give me an Ariel Atom... (Score:2)
It would still be virtually zero emission, and go like hell.
Or (Score:2)
Not so clever -- where's the trunk? (Score:5, Insightful)
Having spent most of last year living carless in the big city, I'm here to tell you that personal cargo capacity is very important factor in designing an efficient and useful low-emissions vehicle for urban transport, a factor that the 'clever' car designers seem to have ignored. Where am I going to store my groceries in this thing? I suppose the passenger seat might do the trick, but with that kind of limited space, why am I driving a car anyway? I can take a taxi just as easily, or even a bus. Hell -- maybe I could even buy a bike, which might help reduce both my fat ass and be good for the environment. What's the use in owning a car that costs twice as much as a regular car, but which has no room to transport me and the occasional junk I buy at the store?
As I see it, no urban vehicle is going to catch on with buyers unless it has some, even if limited, cargo carrying capacity. Small size is great -- especially when you consider the parking situation in most cities -- and fuel efficiency is wonderful, but if it doesn't move both me *and* my stuff, what good is it?
these are just first steps (Score:3, Insightful)
It should be noted that first gas cars where also hobists' toys, inefficient, unreliable, short radius authonomy and explosion-prone, but all the problems where gradually solved, one step a time. OTOH, internal combustion engine cars had no viable competition at the time (if we exclude trains, which were constrained to
Now, it is all like a sumo match - if you press hard enaugh, you will get what you want. If we are determined to press the electric cars, people will find it worthwile to spend some effort inventing solutions for its' present problems. You have noticed that Lithium batteries are response to problem of heaviweightness and bulkiness of acid-lead batteries, but instantly there comes the next problem - endurance of these new batteries. There is a number of other problems, such as recharging time, authonomy, scaleability (you cannot go to nearest battery station and buy just a little "juice" to get car there, or carry small canister in luggage compartment), that may need complete change of viewing point (micro or nano capsulled batteries,
Perhaps new cars will have modular engines, that would allow us to reconfigure and equip them differently for different uses, i.e. when commuting between work and home, use electric subsystem, but when you go on intercity trip, swap it with internal combustion module. Or, even better, make complete powertrain electrical and just swap main battery block with electric generator(, or fuel cell), depending on intended use or personal preference. Of course, there is downside: this would require you to own a garage, or else pay for changing services and rent-a-module.
Like every time before in tech history, military will be judge of what goes and what s(t)inks. When there is mil-grade electric vehicle in comission, there will be cheaper, less robust, fancier versions for civilian use. But, why would military do such thing? Well, for one, transport of energy supplies could potentially be cheaper, faster and more reliable then transport of fuel supplies. I mean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_power_tra
Buy carbon credits instead (Score:5, Interesting)
So buying one of these is like driving a Hummer almost 8 million miles. Doesn't seem so good.
At the more expensive price for European credits ($13 per metric tonne CO2) it's still like driving the Hummer for a million miles.
How can it be that dramatic? The genius of pollution credits is they move the money spent on emissions reduction to where it can be done most efficiently. You can cut emissions by buying an expensive electric car, sure, but somebody else can do it far more cheaply by improving the output of a factory, or putting up a wind farm, or planting a grove of trees -- which are all things that allow people to sell these credits.
Now you may not like the credits, or think the numbers should be different, but the numbers in this case are so off the scale that there's no way that you will do a better job of helping the environment, at least today, with this sort of tech. At best you can feel good while being a gross polluter, and hope you're encouraging a market so that they eventually become cheaper and a thus more efficient way to reduce emissions.
Wrong, Europe signed Kyoto and then promptly (Score:3, Interesting)
Europeans like to play "holier than thou", but in reality, their lower emissions are l
Clever car - targeted at the wrong market (Score:3, Insightful)
would sell by the bucket load as a recreational vehicle for those
who don't want the risks of a motorbike.
But as an everyday enviromental commuting vehicle? Hmm. Not so sure.
Ok , it might have good mileage but having gas cylinders right at
the back of the car where they're a prime target to be hit and crushed?
Not to mention the vehicle itself doesn't exactly look volvo-esque in
its ability to protect its occupants plus its got very little storage
space.
Also at one metre wide its hardly going to be able to squeeze
between traffic like a bike can especially when it leans over hard.
Seems to me its got all the disadvantages of a bike (dangerous, little
storage space) and a car (slow, stuck in traffic) , and none of the
advantages of either.
Its ONLY selling point is its mpg and novelty value. Well sorry, but in
a competitive market you need more than that to sell a vehicle.
Clever Car (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, but it's not such a clevut acronym.
Give me something RWD, compact, ~1.8L, w/ high MPG (Score:3, Informative)
I currently drive a Civic, which is nice, but it's not RWD. Why look for RWD? RWD kind of has gotten bad rap over the years, because it can oversteer in wet/icy conditions, or when gassed too hard - the steering becomes so sensitive that the rear end of the car can slip towards the outside of the turning circle. When done in a controlled manner, this can a lot of fun, the rear end of the car literally steers around you, and you feel the car pivoting around from behind. Steering FWD is boring in comparison, the rear end always follows the front end, up by the hood. Now oversteer does not mean that RWD cars handle poorly, just that they become acutely sensitive to steering when on slippery roads or when gassed hard. A good driver understands that he can use this to his advantage, as the same overly sensitive steering that can throw the car off path can be used to correct it.
Here is a google video demonstrating oversteer -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25708751
Search for oversteer or drift and you will find lots more.
Modern tech could also make such a car more practical. On cars equipped with ABS, which is most models these days, stability control can be added to selectively enable/disable oversteer prevention at the push of a button. Software within the car's computer detects oversteer and cuts engine spark/power and/or hits the brakes on individual wheels (using the ABS hardware) to largely cut out out oversteer. Car review magazines refer to stability control as the "nanny," for good reason. This sort of tech would help make a compact RWD car attractive to a wider range of buyers, who might not want to be so conscientious of their driving all the time, but want to have some fun once in a while.
Another thing that could widen the appeal of such a car would be to make it tweakable, say through adding a USB engine computer interface, or offering an MP3 capable stereo option that has USB inputs for external drives and takes customizable firmware. While this would most definitely appeal to the \. crowd, I think over time the appeal could carry over to a wider audience, as youth today are much more tech saavy and a lot of customizations could be made by third parties. Neither of these options would cost a ton, and could translate into some serious sales.
I hope Honda will eventually make such a car, perhaps in the same class as it's new budget Fit model, but that doesn't seem likely. If anyone takes the leap I think it will be Nissan, they have been doing more unconvential designs lately, being the underdog. They still don't match the quality of the big two Japanese auto makers, but I would serisouly consider it if such a model arrived.
Re:Give me something RWD, compact, ~1.8L, w/ high (Score:3, Insightful)
Nah, that's too slow (Score:3, Informative)
There's a company called Hybrid technologies that's launching this car, which also run on Lithium-based batteries.
Here's a business week story [businessweek.com] on them. It looks a bit like vaporware though, so a grain of salt is recommended.
How is this low-emission? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll stick with my current car, thank you. It gets better fuel mileage than almost everyone who criticises me for driving a "gas guzzler" (I get 26-27mpg combined, I've gotten 32-33mpg on long trips - when driving like a sane person anyhow, 180mph+ runs on I-70 get crappy mileage
The idea of a hybrid intrigues me, but I'd feel far more guilty about the production costs and toxic waste generated from the battery packs which need to be replaced far too often than I do about driving a conventional car. What would convince me to buy a hybrid is using the hybrid technology in combination with a V8 to enhance performance - there is no reason one can't get 35+mpg normal driving and sub-4.1 second 0-60 times in the same car (obviously you wouldn't get good mileage driving like a bat out of hell). The upcoming Lexus is interesting (and out of my price range right now) but I'd like to see what its specs will be. If the specs are comparable to my car and I can afford it at the time (no way in Hell I can afford it at the moment unless I sell my car which "ain't gonna happen" in my liftime), I might buy it.
Re:60mph (Score:5, Informative)
So to answer your question, haul away, but be prepared to sacrifice range for pulling capacity.
Re:60mph (Score:3, Insightful)
The car companies are finally smarting up and offering hybrids that are not toy eco cars. If you look at the latest models from Accord and Toyota, both have 6 cyclinder engines and both out perform in fuel economy and performance of the standard models.
Re:60mph (Score:4, Informative)
TFA is actually two TFAs merged into one. The 100mph electric car is vapourware, while the 60mph CLEVER car is a prototype that runs on gas (real gas, not gasoline).
The CLEVER looks like fun but is not really a car, more a 3 wheel motorcycle with a suspension which leans into corners. It might appeal to commuters who would be nervous about a real bike or who want a bit more dry storage than a traditional scooter or motorcycle would allow. Sort of like a motorbike for Volvo drivers...
the one good thing (Score:3, Interesting)
Properly done, with 4 fully independant wheels, there would be some traction and handling advantages as well. Differentials are sloppy. Steering on ice would be lots easier if the rear wheels could help out via Segway-style computer-controlled speed differences.
That should be a FAQ (Score:3, Insightful)
The pollution from a power plant, about half the time in the US, is coal smoke. It's CO2 with nasty contaminants. Gasoline smoke would be better, except that the smog controls on a power plant are easier to engineer. They can be big, they can be heavy, and they can require on-site technicians to keep t
Electrical cars are to reduce pollution (Score:5, Informative)
In a lot of cases the issue is whether governments should be co-ordinating transport to cut down on pollution or whether it should be left to private individuals to use vehicles that pollute less or consume less resources. A decent train service can keep thousands of cars off the road for most of the week. An electric train, LPG bus or other forms of mass transit are often a better answer.
Greenhouse gasses have nothing to do with the issue unless you get all your electricity from hydro, geothermal or whatever - so currently in no city anywhere. The nuclear lobby is pushing nuclear generated hydrogen and nuclear supplied electricity to power cars for greenhouse reasons but whatever your feelings that can be considered irrelevant to the issue for the next decade as far as a car purchase is considered (it takes a long time to build a big thermal plant of any kind, much longer for a cutting edge nuclear design).
Re:This is great !!! (Score:3, Insightful)
All 250 Lbs of it.
Check out the size and weight of this briefcase. Also look online for EV recharging stations. Your computer power strip may not be up to the task.
Oh I get it.. imagine..
Re:Low emmisions??? (Score:3, Informative)
Currently, most of the power (where you live) might be generated by burning coal, but large scale power generation is:
- vastly more efficient at turning chemical energy into something usable compared to small scale (small scale being a car engine)
- vastly easier to make clean via scrubbing 'bad stuff' out the exhaust than small scale catalytic converters on cars
An electric car can also get better efficiencies by using things like regenerative braking - instead of jus
La, La, La. (Score:3, Informative)