Sun Opens Modeling Tools

twofish writes "According to the Register, Sun is set to open source a few modeling tools, including their UML modeler, XML infrastructure and visual editing tools, and BPEL tools. The software, part of the planned Java Studio Enterprise 9.0, will made available for download as part of Sun's NetBeans Enterprise Pack." From the article: "By open sourcing its UML tools Sun is continuing its push against the rival Eclipse open source tools framework. The Eclipse Foundation has pushed UML and model-driven architectures for some time via the Eclipse Tools Project. The project encompasses an open source implementation of UML, called UML2, and a modeling framework and code-generation facility to build tools and applications that use a structured data model - called the Eclipse Modeling Framework (EMF)."

EMF?

[nganju]

EMF? You're unbelievable!

Unfair

[bobintetley]

For the benefit of the grouchy mod that didn't find this funny, EMF were a UK band who had a chart-topping hit - "Unbelievable".

Made me laugh anyway - sorry, no mod points today.

Re:Unfair

[FerretFrottage]

Some people are just Unbelievable...Ohh

Re:EMF?

[FerretFrottage]

Humm, I would expect most /.er's to associate EMF with Electromagnetic {Field|Force}....you must be from digg.com ;)

Re:EMF?

[ToasterofDOOM]

Actually it stands for electromotive force, forgive me but it's been pounded into my head preparing for the AP test for Physics

Re:EMF?

[FerretFrottage]

you are correct, but you'll see that as you go onto (if you go into) higher engineering classes that the term becomes interchangable even if not entirely correct. This is normally because of the use of electromagnetic induction as one way to produce emf. But Maxwell and his equations did refer to it as electromotive force IIRC (my professor would be happy if you just got electric field out of all of it).

Re:EMF?

[TheNetAvenger]

And yet no one went for the Enhance MetaFile format from the Windows GDI32/GDI+.

I thought people would be scared for Sun that MS might sue them or some flame at least.

LOL

What about the XML tools?

[bartash]

I see there are some XML tools included in this offering. I haven't been able to find out if there is a decent XML Schema editor included. I would really like to get a free XML Schema editor that is as good as XMLSpy.

Re:What about the XML tools?

[charlesnw]

Um.... no. Have you ever done any XML editing? xmlspy is actually really really nice.

Re:What about the XML tools?

[peter_gzowski]

Eclipse [eclipse.org] + Web Tools Platform [eclipse.org]. It contains a graphical XML Schema editor which is similar to XMLSpy's.

Re:What about the XML tools?

[bartash]

Thanks, I tried it. Very impressive for a free tool. Not as good as XMLSpy though :-(

Re:What about the XML tools?

[owlstead]

Hey, it's not that old, wait for it to improve. Or maybe help a little. I think it does most things pretty good, but the performance can be a bit lacking, mostly due to the way the schema's are checked. Sometimes Eclipse tends to rebuild a bit too much. That is a long standing issue. I think it is already pretty cool, and beats a lot of XML editors out there. Try the Ant XML build file support as well, including code completion (!).

Re:What about the XML tools?

[eric2hill]

The oXygen XML [oxygenxml.com] editor is as capable as XMLSpy, but costs considerably less at $180 or $230 with maintenance and is fully cross-platform.

I know it's not free, but for the price, it's an excellent tool.

Re:What about the XML tools?

[EvanED]

I don't know what you mean by "free", but just in case you don't know, there's a free-as-in-beer version for non-commercial use. I don't know what features it's missing, but with the little that I've done I haven't encountered any.

Anyone who's doing XML work should check it out.

Re:What about the XML tools?

[bartash]

Good point, I should have mentioned this. The XMLSpy home edition is free, as in, er, I can never get that bit right. It is great, and for many .xsd editing jobs it is all you need. But it doesn't support 'import' in its visual editor, for that you have to pay the big bucks. And that is what I want.

Re:What about the XML tools?

[cheezit]

XMLSpy isn't as good as XMLSpy used to be about 2 years ago...I don't know what they did to that poor app, but it's half as useful to me now.

Extensibility

[smittyoneeach]

Very intriguing.

As a starving non-pro, my exposure to UML has been the MS Visio implementation.

Visio is a great tool, up until you'd like to do something with the UML that wasn't intended by the authors, like writing a custom report against the model. Then you get that sad "I am baked" feeling.

A robust, open tool would be welcome.

Re:Extensibility

[gstoddart]

Then you get that sad "I am baked" feeling.

I never feel sad when I get than feeling. ;-)

Re:Extensibility

[Chr0nik]

Yeah, that's more of a pizza and xbox feeling to me... Not sad.

Re:Extensibility

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Ack, Visio is awful for UML.

But then again I have yet to find a really good UML modeler.

Re:Extensibility

[metachimp]

I like Poseidon, from Gentleware. There's a free Community Edition available and it works pretty well...

Re:Extensibility

[dartarrow]

Actually DIA [gnome.org] works well too. Its free in both sense of the word. Works as well as Visio.

Re:Extensibility

[smittyoneeach]

Thanks! Quite an interesting emerge.

I'm interested in exploring the python programmability.

Enterprise Architect

[madth3]

I support the second idea. We've been using Enterprise Architect [sparxsystems.com.au] for two years and a half and we're pretty satisfied about it.

• Affordable
• It covers all of our UML needs (not only class diagrams)
• Connects pretty well with Oracle or PostgreSQL
• Powerful report generation
• Support replicas for distributed work
• ... more features I haven't used

UML2

[notestein]

Sadly there is no visual component to this. It's simply the framework. I'm still using Argo. http://argouml.tigris.org/ [tigris.org]

Re:UML2

[ivar]

the screenshot [sun.com] linked from the info page [sun.com] would indicate otherwise....

Re:UML2

[JakusMinimus]

given the title, i am pretty sure the gp was referring to UML2 http://www.eclipse.org/uml2/ [eclipse.org]

Re:UML2

[niskel]

Thats where GMF [eclipse.org] comes in.

Re:Too little momentum

[CastrTroy]

Eclipse may have a lot of momentum, but I still think Netbeans is a better tool. I haven't really used either extensively, but from what I've seen, I like Netbeans a lot more. There's room for more than 1 IDE in the world, just like there's room for Gnome and KDE. Remember, MS Office has a lot of momentum too, but that doens't mean Sun should abandon star/open office.

Re:Too little momentum

[Decaff]

I realized why the the hell would I program anything in Java if the premier IDE for it, written in java, was such a dog. I stopped going after that.

Eclipse should not take that long to start up on any reasonably configured modern machine. If it takes more than 20-30 seconds, something is seriously wrong.

But there is another point - IDEs are among the most complex applications - they include plug-in tools, application servers, debuggers and so on. Such tools can be 'dogs' no matter what language they are w

Re:Too little momentum

[Decaff]

There's no such thing as a small and fast Java application. Unless you happen to be talking about hello world, and ignore the size of the JVM/class libraries.

The JVM is tiny, and Java typically only loads the individual classes it needs as it needs them. This means you can ignore the size of the class libraries. Java is the language of choice for mobile devices because it can be so small.

As for Jedit... I'd say 5 seconds... and that's for a *fucking* text editor.

On the same machine the Kate KDE text edit

Re:Too little momentum

[jekewa]

NetBeans is a fine tool for getting the job done.

Eclipse is not what you may think it is. Eclipse is the community front-end for the expensive IBM WSAD environment. Most of the places I've worked that use Eclipse do so because they see it as an alternative to the WSAD tools, and they're using WebSphere as the eventual platform; which is truly irrelevant if the software is written corectly.

NetBeans is much more like it looks. Formerly it was the community front-end for Sun's expensive Forte environment, but Sun has since abandoned that for truly the community-driven IDE, backing it with every visit to the JDK download page. And it works just fine with all of the Java application/servlet environments, whether Sun released them or not.

NetBeans is also pure Java, written on Swing, while Eclipse uses its proprietary SWT, which uses native calls to get its GUI work done. You can take the same archive of NetBeans to any J2SE-enabled desktop and it'll work. Not so with Eclipse. Because of this, it's easier to adopt new releases and plug-ins in NetBeans than it is for Eclipse. Many of the third-party add-ons for Eclipse assume or require Windows, and therefore don't work on LINUX, Solaris, Mac, or any of the other envornments. Not so with NetBeans; the plug-ins are also Java, so they work everywhere NetBeans does.

I was a long-time advocate of NetBeans before Eclipse came in to dominate the workplace. Eclipse does win some robustness categories, and its rapid-development bits are a little better (auto-complete/suggest kicks over NetBeans), but both are modular and extendable, and NetBeans has usually come with the tools needed to get the job done before Eclipse has (early GUI editor, and built-in Tomcat, Ant, JUnit...).

And, yes, I do most of my development in Eclipse, but I check out each release of NetBeans, and even try to continue to evangelize it.

Try not to be one who thinks that everyone should just join the "leader" as it often stifles competition, advances, and options. Someday Eclipse will catch up and have a GUI editor, BEPL and UML GUI tools, and some of the other flexibilites that NetBeans 5.5 [netbeans.info] has now.

Re:Too little momentum

[SlowMovingTarget]

There are many more upgrade paths from the Eclipse IDE than WSAD. But buying the for-pay IDE atop Eclipse isn't actually the point. Look at the technology underneath Eclipse: dynamic extensible plug-ins and OSGi service bundles. It is a platform where one tool can easily extend and integrate with others.

Yes, you can take the same NetBeans jar file and run the installer on Linux and Windows with equal ease. So what? I can download the correct Eclipse SDK for either of those platforms just like you'd ha

Re:Too little momentum

[mypalmike]

Eclipse is not what you may think it is. Eclipse is the community front-end for the expensive IBM WSAD environment.

I find your definition odd. Eclipse is an IDE for Java development. My team and I use it to develop server applications, JBoss services, and SWT - based GUIs. At a previous job, I worked with people who were using it as a C++ development environment. I actually had to google for "WSAD" to even know what you were even talking about.

Re:Too little momentum

[L7_]

You aren't getting it then. Eclipse is the framework that IBM is building thier premiere office interactivity client Lotus Notes on. It is the framework: Lotus Notes will be an Eclipse plugin exported as an executable (on every platform x,y,z that eclipse runs on) that will run as a native application.

Eclipse is more than an IDE. In fact, I am pretty sure that the IDE is just another plugin that runs inside the framework to allow you to edit java code. Eclipse is an application framework that makes developi

Re:Too little momentum

[mypalmike]

You aren't getting it then.
What's this "it" that I don't get? I was simply saying that Eclipse is an IDE for Java development. I was responding to someone who seemed to think it was primarily a "gateway drug" to WSAD. None of the developers I've worked with see it this way.

Eclipse is an application framework that makes developing applications (I mean complete end to end applications) much easier.
Indeed. We use the Eclipse framework for our GUI applications. Like you said, not WSAD applications. But wh

Re:Too little momentum

[EvanED]

NetBeans is also pure Java, written on Swing, while Eclipse uses its proprietary SWT, which uses native calls to get its GUI work done.

This is a *good* thing, and one of the main reasons I used Eclipse instead of NetBeans for my last Java product.

First, calling SWT proprietary is disingenuous; it's still open source, no? Or am I just horribly misinformed?

If anything, it's Swing and Java itself that's proprietary.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of native widgets. It's somewhat superficial, but one of the big reasons I

Re:Too little momentum

[Decaff]

NetBeans is also pure Java, written on Swing, while Eclipse uses its proprietary SWT, which uses native calls to get its GUI work done.

So does Swing - this is how the underlying AWT API works.

Re:Too little momentum

[pmike_bauer]

Most of the places I've worked that use Eclipse do so because they see it as an alternative to the WSAD tools, and they're using WebSphere as the eventual platform; which is truly irrelevant if the software is written correctly.

If you how to target WebSphere in an efficient manner without using RAD 6 (successor to WSAD), could you elaborate?

My company has 'standardized' on WebSphere, but my team mates and I would love to use something other than IBM's development tools.

Unfortunately, using another cont

Re:Too little momentum

[aCapitalist]

NetBeans is also pure Java, written on Swing, while Eclipse uses its proprietary SWT, which uses native calls to get its GUI work done.

It's funny how this stupidity continues to get thrown around by Netbeans fanboys. Because we all know that Java-Swing actually uses no native code *rolls-eyes*. I guess that just continues the "fine" McNealy/Sun tradition of saying that "Java is the platform, and the OS is irrelevant". Oh, and nice how SWT is suddenly "proprietary".

Sun must really be getting nervous about

Re:Too little momentum

[jekewa]

Since J2SE1.5, sorry J2SE 5.0, the OS look and feel has been part of the runtime. Yes, the Java runtime does do native calls behind our backs, but that's what the VM is supposed to do. No, I don't want to use layers that limit where I can deploy my software. Perhaps you have the luxury (or would it be drawback?) to develop and deploy on the same OS with the same tools, but some of us have to actually write transportable code; develop on Windows or LINUX, deploy on Solaris, or whatever. Start mixing the real

Re:Too little momentum

[Qbertino]

No.
Eclipse has enough quirks and bugs to justify having Netbeans around. Just have the Netbeans lot decide to support other languages better than Eclipse and integrate jEdit and Netbeans is on top again. I'm currently doing PHP stuff with Eclipse and while it's nice for free it certainly isn't the bar for OSS IDEs. There is plenty of room for Netbeans and I don't see the 'momentum' you're talking about taking any effect on real-world usability of eclipse. They even still don't have a devent FTP connectivity

Netbeans the dark horse

[HampiRocks]

Eclipse is doing another microsft: success on looks and marketing. Netbeans beats eclipse on functionality. Eclipse is nothing more than an advanced editor that provides code completion, integrated debugging and looks good. For any serious JAVA work , e.g., J2EE, J2ME work eclipse is useless. Getting code completion in JSP, and debugging J2EE apps to work is a pain in eclipse. Eclipse lacks the support for template applications that make it so easy to start the work. For all serious JAVA functionality eclip

Re:Netbeans the dark horse

[metachimp]

Eclipse differs from NetBeans in one significant way, which is that Eclipse is not specifically a Java IDE. I'm doing development with J2EE right now, and am aware of two tools that make this pretty easy:
MyEclipse [myeclipseide.com] which costs money, and Eclipse's own WST [eclipse.org]. So yeah, trying to get plain old Eclipse and Java to work well with J2EE stuff is difficult, but the tools I just mentioned are very well supported.

I can just as easily start working in C++ with Eclipse, because it's not designed for any one language. Th

Vehmently disagree

[kaffiene]

I moved to Netbeans from Eclipse. Eclipse *was* the best IDE in existence, bar none. I personally find that since NB4.1, Netbeans is a better IDE - at least for the work I do. I find it much easier to work with.

The fact is that NB has a good chunk of the IDE space and has been trending up recently. It's far from out of the picture.

It's also where innovation has been happening recently - Matisse, the UML and BIPL tools. Eclipse has been positively stagnant by comparison.

Re:Too little momentum

[Decaff]

The NetBeans tools may be great, but NetBeans' time has passed. Eclipse now has very strong momentum.

The statistics of IDE use disagree with you. Both Eclipse and NetBeans have very strong momentum. NetBeans use has been increasing dramatically recently. The reason? NetBeans has so much included in the base system, such as J2EE development and GUI designers. With NetBeans 4, powerful refactoring facilities were added (at last!), and with NetBeans 5 there is now one of the best GUI designers (Matisse) ever released.

It is important for the future health of Java development that there should be a choice of quality IDEs. If there is just one, then it can have excessive influence. A recent example of this was Eclipse's late support for Java 1.5. Many developers held back on the use of Java 1.5 because Eclipse did not support it.

Eclipse is the most widely used Java IDE, but NetBeans (and others, such as IntelliJ) are very widely used as well.

Re:Too little momentum

[SlowMovingTarget]

I'm not talking IDE use, I'm talking open source tools platform. While I personally prefer the Eclipse IDE to the NetBeans IDE, having actually coded for each as a platform, I can offer an opinion from experience: the Eclipse programming model makes just makes it easier to get things done. Most vendors seem to agree, which is why, with the exception of Sun, all the major Java vendors are Eclipse Foundation members [eclipse.org] (including my employer--naturally my opinions are my own).

Compare NetBeans [netbeans.org] on this footing

Re:Too little momentum

[Decaff]

I'm not talking IDE use, I'm talking open source tools platform. While I personally prefer the Eclipse IDE to the NetBeans IDE, having actually coded for each as a platform, I can offer an opinion from experience: the Eclipse programming model makes just makes it easier to get things done. Most vendors seem to agree, which is why, with the exception of Sun, all the major Java vendors are Eclipse Foundation members (including my employer--naturally my opinions are my own).

Compare NetBeans on this footing and

why sun spends so much money on software

[u19925]

I am quite surprised that sun is spending so much money on software while its core copetency is in hardware. they paid tons for Forte, Netbeans, Seebeyond, Staroffice and has a huge software group. Other than Java and Solaris-10, not many people pay for any of the Sun software. Oracle, IBM, Microsoft have huge enterprise customer base from where they get majority of the revenue and use this to provide free developer tools and other free goodies, but what does Sun have? I guess, a way for Sun to achieve profitability would be to get rid off all software teams except Solaris, Java and focus on their hardware business. They should at AMD for some guidance. It stuck to its core business and today it is Intel whose stock price is very low while AMD is close to historically high.

Re:why sun spends so much money on software

[SeeMyNuts!]

Solaris and Java need tools to support developers, and those are compilers, IDEs, and sysadmin tools.

StarOffice/OpenOffice.org are mainly a spear in the side of Microsoft.

Their J2EE is the reference implementation others are measured by.

I'm not sure Sun has much superfluous software, outside of a couple projects here and there I haven't really figured out what they are for.

Re:why sun spends so much money on software

[aphaenogaster]

Actually it is sad that this is so surprising. Sun is the only company outside of Apple that I can think of that contributes so much to 'computers' in general (hardware, software, and pure research). Check this out! I was going to submit it to Slashdot, but they never listen to me. To log in just click log in no username or password. https://sgddemo.sun.com/sgd/ [sun.com] For information on what you are doing go here... view this http://webcast-east.sun.com/ramgen/archives/VIP-21 85/VIP-2185_01_300.rm [sun.com] or read this http://www.sun.com/software/sdis/ [sun.com]

Re:why sun spends so much money on software

[Decker-Mage]

Color me impressed! While I wouldn't touch a SunRay with a ten foot pole, this is actually pretty cool and beats the stuffing out of any prior implementation I've run into before that uses Java.

As for the company, well they got the stuffing beat out of them but I feel that they are knocking the dust off their pants and and getting back into the game (same with HP in the server market, IMNSHO). The new hardware is very nice and back on my short list which it hasn't been for a looooong time and while you

Sun spends so much money on wrong software

[master_p]

After all these years, Sun still does not have a programming language that includes function composition, tail call optimization, type deduction, referential transparency, logical types, operator overloading & specification, compile-time/meta programming etc.

Re:Visual Editor

[Decaff]

Way better than NetBeans Editor

No, it really isn't. NetBeans Matisse GUI editor is recognised as being one of the best ever developed.

Competition: how things should work

[cpu_fusion]

The advances in the Java IDE space over the last four years have been fantastic. Whether you are a fan of Netbeans, Eclipse, another IDE, or even if you don't use Java, this competition should be a nice reminder of how a working market produces innovative products at a nice pace. (AMD vs. Intel is another example.)

It is a sad reminder of Microsoft's (criminal) monopoly, and the governments unwillingness to intervene, that for the vast majority of consumers, there has been very little of this "competitive energy" in the Operating System space. Sure, they can buy an Apple, but even there ... only one manufacturer for OS-X.

I'm running a nice 3-d enhanced desktop (Xgl) in Linux, but I see Windows users have another six months, minimum, to see anything comperable.

Imagine what the tech world would be like if the Operating System market was as competitive as NetBeans vs. Eclipse.

Re:Competition: how things should work

[KarmaMB84]

Cause we really wanted what Microsoft had 2 years ago to have been released at that time... *shudder*

Open Open Development Development

[Doc Ruby]

These are developer tools. Their sourcecode is open. Their consumers are developers.

Where's the adapter code that plugs each development platform's modules into the other's framework? This is the best case for open software discarding arbitrary vendor boundaries I've ever heard.

Great news...

[Kaptain_Korolev]

For anyone who has had the misfortune to use the festival of shit that is Umbrello [sourceforge.net]

A tool, only in the derogatory sense of the word

Thanks

[Polski Radon]

Thank you Sun!

Modelling Tools?

[Aqua_boy17]

So where's my Sun Model Hotties Calendar?

Re:Modelling Tools?

[DrEasy]

LOL He's not kidding! :)

Good thing!

[salapaka]

It is great to see Sun open-sourcing their enterprise IDE ("Sun Java Studio Enterprise"). Now I can design/develop/debug/test my enterprise applications, web services and portal apps all in one environment!

There has always been need for a great open source UML modeling tool, hopefully people will start designing 'more' with tools like this readily available. Other tools experience:

• I used to like Visio for its ease of use to draw up anything but I never liked the fact that it has no support for Java data

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I've used UML on every large project I've worked on since about 1999 and its been absolutely invaluable. Obviously its not the only way of communicating design but it is
a) Understood by most systems designers
b) Under by pretty much every developer I work with
c) Specific enough to be able to communicate fairly complex designs with, generic enough that it lends itself well to things (like distributed asynchronous messaging based systems) that it wasn't designed for.
Beats the hell out of re-inve

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[greg_barton]

It'll be a cold day in hell before Sun releases the source code to any software that people actually use.

You mean like source to the jdk, [java.net] j2ee, [sun.com] and [sun.com] various [sun.com] reference [sun.com] implementations? [sun.com]

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[RPoet]

I believe the GP meant "release the source" as in set it free. That's different from making it available to look at but not touch and not redistribute. Mustang is certainly not free (as in free) or open source.

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[CraigoFL]

It'll be a cold day in hell before Sun releases the source code to any software that people actually use.

Yeah, because *nobody* is using Java [sun.com]. Brr!.

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[Decaff]

It'll be a cold day in hell before Sun releases the source code to any software that people actually use.

You have got to be joking. Apart from the fact that anyone can download the source code for Java, they have open sourced huge amounts. Solaris is very widely used, especially in commercial environments. NetBeans is a very widely used Java IDE, and there is, of course Open Office.

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[htd2]

Apart from OpenOffice, NetBeans, NFS, OpenSolaris big chunks of most Linux distributions (last time anyone counted RedHat contained more source attributed to by Sun than any other entity except FSF), cubic spline, etc etc etc etc.

Re:Does anyone really use UML?

[rubycodez]

UML use is quite common in the java/j2ee world, though there's like two dozen methodologies that are no better or worse. One problem with UML (that the committee is working on) is it doesn't model parallel or multithreaded processes too well, and a realistic multi-tier architecture probably needs some of that in the model. It's also funny how the disciples think, how can you possibly have a large project without UML (or java/j2ee for that matter). One good thing (or awful thing) about the large UML too

Re:Just wanna make sure...

[JebusIsLord]

pssst... I have a secret for you... companies that do things purely out of altruism don't exist for long. Of course Sun is doing Java to benefit Sun. Otherwise the shareholds sure would be pissed!

Why do some people think that companies trying to make money is a dirty little secret? Its the whole point!

Re:Just wanna make sure...

[Eckzow]

I don't have a problem with a company making money off of a product. I have a problem with a company actively subverting other people's altruism in order to maintain a stranglehold on profit. Don't confuse me with an open-source-only hippie, but at the same time the Eclipse people deserve better than Sun trying to flush them out just to keep Java on a tight leash.

Re:Just wanna make sure...

[Decker-Mage]

but at the same time the Eclipse people deserve better than Sun trying to flush them out just to keep Java on a tight leash.

I'm an outsider here as I don't like Java at all but Sun has forthrightly stated, at least in the software developement publications that I read that this is no way, shape, or form their intent. They (now) openly acknowledge that Eclipse seems to be the framework/IDE of choice of the Java community (at least you people have a by God real community, too!) but they intend to provide t

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:UML, model-driven architectures?

[hguorbray]

Ding Ding - Wrong, but thanks for playing!

Unified Modelling language is used by Analysts, Architects and QA to ensure that an application will support the user or business processes that are required for the organization. It is best if it is used from the Requirements gathering stage onwards.

Use Cases are used to determine Actors (Objects) and Actions (methods) and to identify business rules and requrements which may need to be enforced programmatically. The use cases will result in specifications, which go

Re:UML, model-driven architectures?

[Decker-Mage]

Actually I've been using predicate calculas for this for several decades with good results (zero bugs). UML has it's place for those that are visually oriented (which is something I'm singularly unequipped to do). And yes, almost all my stuff has been user-facing with business-rules or operational function (military). UML is a tool, like any other, that forces a methodology constraint with the hope (in this case closer to a promise) of delivering a product that actually does what it is supposed to do. W

Re:UML, model-driven architectures?

[metamatic]

Wow. I'd love to see you try and get the sales people on my team to read your predicate calculus user requirements. Talk about living in different worlds...

Re:UML, model-driven architectures?

[Decker-Mage]

Well that depends on the sales people. A few of the business rule packages that I came across over the years might as well have been written in predicate calculas ;-). Frankly, they wouldn't have to do the writing, I do that. The chief advantage of this technique, and I've used it for the last 30+ years (even taking class notes in it), is that conflicting cases are immediately obvious if you live and breathe truth-tables, which I do. Then you take the results, put them back into "English" and give that

Re:Sun software tools...

[SeeMyNuts!]

Sorry, they run only on an abacus. Thankfully, UML is 2-D, because the 3-D acceleration routines cause carpal tunnel syndrome after abour four hours of modeling. In 2-D, well trained abacus operators can run at least 12 hours, covering a good work day.

Re:Sun software tools...

[aphaenogaster]

I just don't understand where the anymosity comes from. It's not like sun is out there doing violence to the OSS community or anything.

Re:Sun software tools...

[__aaclcg7560]

No, I was thinking more along the lines of razor blades where the handle is given away for almost nothing. Since Sun now a software company, maybe they should give the hardware away. Seems like every time I come across an older SPARC system, someone is giving them away.

Re:Is it Java?

[toriver]

Great! Now go back to your memory-leaking, buffer overrrun-vulnerable C++ and oh-so-modern CORBA tools.