Pen-Based PDA Market on Death Bed 281
An anonymous reader writes "The traditional pen-based PDA market is destined to evaporate within the next four years, according to HP, and it will be focusing its handheld efforts on converged smart phone devices, such as its latest BlackBerry rivals unveiled this week -- the iPAQ rw6800 and the iPAQ hw6900." From the article: "This won't come as a surprise to many, as HP hasn't given its traditional pen-based product line a refresh since the launch of the iPAQ hx4700 towards the middle of 2004. It released the iPAQ rx1950 in September of last year, but this was very much an entry-level product and made few waves among the high-end, tech-savvy consumers that dominate the PDA segment."
Tablet PCs (Score:4, Insightful)
I am not sure why they have not caught on a lot more, they offer tons on functionality, and decent uptimes.
Take handwritten notes and have them stored in digital format stored immediately?
Why not?
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:4, Insightful)
- small enough to stick in a pants pocket
- that doesn't need charging every 4 hours
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen it at CompUSA, and it is very sleek! It is horizontally oriented and sits comfortably into my hand.
The only problem is that it lacks apps. I think partly because it was designed as a web browsing device, and partly because Nokia thought it would fail, there were no apps built for it. However, since it runs the somewhat open-source Maemo platform, there is a lot of opportunity for community development.
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2)
There were a couple of things that I really want a tablet computer for -- an animation app, a calendar app, and a chinese character learning app.
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd say 3 hours is about what I'd expect with WiFi on, and maybe playing music. For reading an ebook or browsing off-line, I get a lot more.
There are lots of third-party apps available (cf http://maemo.or [maemo.org]
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:5, Interesting)
I am not sure why they have not caught on a lot more,
Because people don't want them. In fact, the same dynamic is at work in replacing the pen-based PDA with keyboard-based models. You may not understand it (hey, even unpopular ideas have at least a few fans), but I think the market has proven time and time again that people want keyboard-based input.
Those who argue in favor of pen-based input always talk about how "intuitive" it is, but I think that's a misnomer. Is it more intuitive to jot something down that even you yourself can barely read and that is poorly recognized by the PC than it is to simply type something that everybody can understand? Is it any faster? (The answer to that is clearly no; you can test that yourself.)
Pen-based PDA's are on the way out and so are tablet PC's, except for those certain market segments (medical professionals, construction, etc.) that can benefit from them. But they are not suitable as general purpose machines; not as suitable as PC's with keyboards, anyway.
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2)
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2)
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2)
To my horror virtually everyone who tried it would get about 45-50% recognition. That meant I had to stand there like an idiot explaining and demonstrating how good it was at reading MY handwriting even though it thought THEIR handwriting was pretty much random scratchings.
Evidently I just happen to
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2)
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2, Interesting)
I bought a Palm a few years ago and used it actively for probably a couple of months. Then I just stopped. It just wasn't convenient to carry my cell phone and my PDA. The problem wasn't the pen, the problem was the extra device.
As I had to recently decide what kind of phone I was going t
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2)
the same dynamic is at work in replacing the pen-based PDA with keyboard-based models
I've been using PDAs for years- first a Palm V, then a Tungsten T. I switched to a Treo a few months ago and I've found the mini keyboard to be a much more efficient method for using the device. It's a pleasure to use in comparison, quite frankly. I've rarely used the stylus on my Treo, although I probably would use it more if it still included the Note Pad application.
However, I wouldn't like to see the touch-sensiti
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:2, Interesting)
Having switched a year ago from a Grafitti-based Palm to a keyboard-based one (the Treo 650), I firmly believe the keyboard is worse. I suspect raw character entry speed is about the same for me, but now I have to switch back and forth betwee
Keyboards MIGHT be a problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Answer this wrong, and you fail to get the customer on the all important upgrade treadmill.
Keyboards are a trade off. What you give up is the ratio of PDA size to screen. A PDA that is smaller is better. A PDA with a bigger screen is better. It therefore follows that the ideal PDA is all screen, and a keyboard PDA will never be ideal.
On the other hand, a keyboarded PDA has the following advantage: it'
Re:Tablet PCs (Score:3, Insightful)
I am not sure why they have not caught on a lot more, they offer tons on functionality, and decent uptimes.
Take handwritten notes and have them stored in digital format stored immediately?
===
Well, my employer (a K-12 school) pushed me to introduce the iPaq handhelds two years ago. After a lot of poor trial results (dead batteries, cracked screens, difficulty of interface, inferior software to the Palm, etc...) I let the project die like a dinosaur in a
I don't think so. (Score:3, Insightful)
It is more true that PDAs are losing to converged devices, but I think that's only half the story. What I think really is happening is that PDAs are being bracketed by laptops on one end and converged/feature rich phones on the other. Everybody who might use a PDA is almost certainly carrying a laptop and a phone that if it isn't "converged", it is practically so in all but name.
Personally, I don't think either fits the true PDA niche,
Re:I don't think so. (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember the rumors recently that the current "iPod Video" is not what Apple really had in mind for the iPod video and that the next generation would have a screen the size of the device, and move the controls to a touch sensitive screen.
If this is true (and I think it likely), then it would also be a perfect opportunity for Apple to upgrade the PDA functions already in the iPod by including better text entry (a soft keyboard, and/or a stylus of some sort?).
Re:I don't think so. (Score:2)
The essence of the iPod strategy AFAIK is this:
(1) Create a highly desirable product
(2) Price it high enough to be a luxury, but low enough indulgent people will treat themselves
(3) Chiivy the customers onto the upgrade treadmill.
Of course there's the music store. This is a master stroke; it increases the perceived value of the device while offsetting its costs. I'm not sure whether that is graftable onto a PDA st
Well this sucks (Score:2)
So why av
Stylus is dead... (Score:2)
Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:5, Informative)
I've long held the opinion that if you gave one of these things to one of the homeless guys who stand on the street and talk to unseen people, they would cease to look crazy, but rather "productive". Go figure.
New Federal Mental Health Initiative (Score:2)
Washington, D.C. - Today the Bush administration announced the first major increase in public spending for the mentally ill since Ronald Reagan slashed psychiatric care for indigents in the 1980s. Under the new program, Medicare will be expanded such that every American who is diagnosed with schizophrenia will be issued with a Bluetooth headset to allow them to speak
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
(BTW, I totally agree with you)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2, Informative)
I was amazed how bright that sucker is in my Plantronics 640 when it strobed as I walked through a dark hallway.
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Where do I carry a headset? In my pocket? Works, but I'd forget to use it. (And probably lose it, since I'd never use it.) On my ear? Great, walk around all the time with something strapped to my ear for
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
A smartphone concentrates to much on the phone. Which to me is really irrelevent.
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
1. I can't use a thumb-board. Sorry.
2. It's not a convient phone. Not that I use the phone much, but be a good phone.
3. It's still clunkier than a stand alone PDA for PDA functions.
4. I'd have to switch cell phone companies. I don't see why that should be relevent to my PDA choice.
(I have no idea on battery life, but I've been known to drain a Palm's battery in less than a day because of constant use.)
The point is my PDA is my PDA, not my phone. I don't use it as
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
-N
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Won't SOMEBODY give the market what it wants? (Score:2)
I also want bluetooth.
I call Verizon - "can I have a bluetooth phone without a camera?" "No - the cell phone people won't provide them, but we have lots of engineers and lots of lawyers who want one". I call Motorola - "can I have a bluetooth phone without a camera?" "
Re:Won't SOMEBODY give the market what it wants? (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:3, Interesting)
With sony out and palm going downhill, where will I get my next PDA?
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
So get a bluetooth ear piece. You can talk on the phone while looking at it to make notes, while driving down the freeway, eating a donut, drinking a Starbucks coffee. Just make sure to have 911 on speed dial, you will need it after the crash.
You can have my Tungsten C (Score:2)
When the batteries quit charging or
When it breaks and Palm charges exhorbitantly to replace it, assuming of course, you can actually get a hold of Palm tech support, or,
After I through it against the wall in frustration after (yet again) being unable to browse the Palm's own web site because of "unsupported download type".
I've owned a Palm since The Beginning but the Tungsten C is my last one. To big, too short of battery life, terrible software. No F
I'm with you (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
I want my tools to do their jobs well. I don't want a screwdriver on the side of my wrench. I don't want my coffee c
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Just as long as not everyone believes them.... (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
At the very least, the built-in recargable battery has a limited life. I've had one PDA die that way so far. Another fell in a lake with me. Another had a hinge wear out. (Sony flip Clie: the hinge wore out and the screen stopped working.)
And of course there is the whole thing about being able to sync to my computer, which means software updates as my OS updates.
PDA's wear out, and need replacement, even if you don't need/want new features.
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
You know... (Score:5, Insightful)
You've got this all wrong. (Score:2)
I want everything to be able to do everything, but each should also do one thing well.
That way, if one of them breaks, I can use the other one...kinda.
My PDA is my bookreader, and my phone is my mp3 player but in a pinch either will do the other thing. It's just that the phone has an understandably small screen, and the PDA has an understandab
Just replaced my palm with a treo phone (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Just replaced my palm with a treo phone (Score:2)
Well, the Treo's keyboard is uncomfortably small, for me at least, but many people seem ok with it. My handheld device, a T-mobile sidekick, has a very comfortable keyboard and I find that I can type nearly as fast (with software key shortcuts (i.
Re:Just replaced my palm with a treo phone (Score:2)
I almost never use the stylus on my Treo. Only on poorly designed websites, and games. Everything else is well mapped to keys.
I loved my standalone palm, but now that I've had the Treo, I wouldn't trade the phone integration for anything.
Herded like sheep (Score:2)
I went from Palm to Treo to BlackBerry. Which is from Stylus for everything to Stylus for selection and keyb for rest, to keyboard and thumbwheel. Each was a step down in user interaction. A smart phone would be yet another step down. Palm leadership is inc
I hope not (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I hope not (Score:2)
Pricing matters (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus many modern PDAs cost almost as much as a small / low budget laptop. Why bother buying an expensive gizmo if you can the real thing for a bit more? Also subsidized smart phones from network operators will always be cheaper as 'unconnected' PDAs.
So in the future we will only have even smarter phones and mini notebooks. PDAs will be gone - they were an evolutionary step to the new offsprings.
Re:Pricing matters (Score:2)
Because you look a complete tool trying to shove a laptop in your pocket.
Re:Pricing matters (Score:2)
My phone on the other hand, I want it to act like a phone (and contact phone list). That's it. no games, no web browsing, no fansy smancy battery draining crap. If my MP3 player dies, I'm fine. If my digital camera dies, my life will continue. But if I'm stuck on the side of
Re:Pricing matters (Score:2)
No, I imagine they perform very similarly when being used only for phone service. But how long does your phone battery hold up on a call when you've already used your phone as an MP3 player for 8 hours that day? And how much performance can be eeked out of that 'more efficient' processor? I have some Pocket PC apps that are heavily optimized to get sub second responses in heavy data manipulation on a 400mhz ARM p
Re:Pricing matters (Score:2)
Having attempted to use both the calendar and addressbook in my cell phone (which is, granted, the cheapest phone my carrier offered), I am fairly certain anyone that utters this kind of nonsense has never used a PDA for more than a few minutes at a time.
Re:Pricing matters (Score:2)
I also use it to test wifi strength around buildings and to sniff out open access points. Oh, and of course it syncs with my desktop calendar.
My iPAQ fits easily into a trouser or suit pocket. On phones the screen is too small and I don't want a phone with a large scr
Re:Pricing matters (Score:2)
I have a few portable devices Nokia Phone, Orange M2000 (PDA with GPRS) and a Dell Axim.
I _always_ have the phone with me, whereas the other bulky items might be left at home or the office. The major problem as I see it with Smart Phones is that the battery life isn't good enough, particularly if you start using data services.
My phone is always charged
Origami will probably replace PDAs (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Origami will probably replace PDAs (Score:3, Insightful)
My ppc plays videos and music (via a 1 gig sd card). I also have bluetooth (used mostly for DUN) - Wifi. I can do basical word processing and spreadsheet functions - surf the web, read ebooks, play games, skype, instant message... just a wide range of things at a cost on par with and in some instances below the cost of an IPOD.
Origami is going to need cool factor and the right price
Going the way of the pager (Score:3, Insightful)
As soon as you have devices that do everything a PDA does, but better and still cheap, the PDA as it is now will disappear. The problem is a lot of these devices now try to do everything, but don't do anything well (and they're expensive). Once that begins to change, it will be no surprise.
That's what i thought the origami was going to be. Why not have a blackberry-type device which is super easy to use, works perfectly with Exchange, and has all the cool pen-based pda functionality. As long as they could pull it off without being cumbersome, i think it would work. Thats why some devices succeed and some fail: crappy ones are too cumbersome to actually use.
Re:Going the way of the pager (Score:2)
Re:Going the way of the pager (Score:2)
Modern PDAs have more horsepower than desktop PCs ten years ago. There is nothing really new or innovative about the new "Origami" device, the market is simply following the logical conlcusion of having faster and cheaper hardware available. It is no longer necessary to use highly specialized embedded technology to produce PDAs. So they are not going away, it's just that th
Re:Going the way of the pager (Score:2)
I and a lot of people that manage our schedules with a PDA don't have time or patience to do the same with a UI limited 'smart' phone. I also do not want a mini-laptop. I want a reliable handspring Treo. But because there is more money in smart phones due to the payment scheme, everyone is abandoning the PDA.
Once you add a phone onto a PDA the PDA companies flip the fuck out and start trying to get subscription money by acting like its a phone.
Looks like Bla
Re:Going the way of the pager (Score:2)
What are you talking about? The pager is the ultimate in quick and dirty: Your pager beeps, you look at the screen, it shows you the number which called you. Pretty fast. The thing is, with cell phones so small/cheap/easy, you might as well just answer the call instead of having to go find a phone and call back the person that paged you. That's the point: cell phones do everything a pager did, only better and cheaper. There's no downsides.
You're right ab
Expensive toys (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you mean the early adopters who are willing to spend way to much on a piece of kit so they can flaunt their technical superiority? I wear a watch, I carry a planner and I have a pen. My watch is self winding (yes, it is even an analog watch), I recharge my planner once a year (calendar refils) and a pen is always at hand. I guess that just leaves the effort of finding the correct date and writing something down. Oh, and manually checking the schedule.
T-Mobile MDA (Score:2)
I think HP just doesn't like that their stuff isn't innovative anymore(neither is T-Mobile, it's just a rebranded HTC Wizard or Qtek 9100 or I-Mate something or other, I forget who the actual manufacturer is, but...) whereas HP has released the same old stuff for as long as I can rememb
Some people like PDAs (Score:2)
I don't think that the PDA will go away as long as the PDA's power/speed increases and the price stays low.
How "pen-based" are we talking about? (Score:2)
Re:How "pen-based" are we talking about? (Score:2)
Death of PDA (Score:2, Insightful)
Tried it, don't use it (Score:2)
to quote the kids, 'omg! rofl!' (Score:2)
why, with your airtight reputation for being able to spot (and drive!) trends, i'd say this is pretty much guaranteed to be a spot-on prediction. particularly if the prediction was made in 1999.
i'm just happening that someone, somewhere, manages to save the trademark 'zire'. that is a precious word, and one that we can't take for granted.
Depends on how you look at what constitutes a PDA (Score:5, Interesting)
I just splurged and dropped ~$20 on a new PDA. This PDA [hipsterpda.com] I purchased is great! The batteries never run out, it is almost totally immune to shock from being dropped, I can transfer data easily between home and office, and the format is universal so I never have to worry about incompatibilities, and it is so fast and easy to use that even my parents can understand it. I went ahead and purchased an add-on module [tinyurl.com] for it so I could have the advanced calendaring to track my gigs and rehearsals. Luckily, I already had a docking station [leedsworld.com] for it with extra storage capacity as well as a variety of other add-ons, so it fit right into my daily routine.
I consider it one of the best investments I've made in years. Spending $20 to successfully replace a $300 device may not sound realistic, but I've never been more organized than I am now. All I had to do that I got rid of my old PDA systems (Palm OS based devices) and find something that fit better with my new filing system. [43folders.com]
Re:Depends on how you look at what constitutes a P (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Depends on how you look at what constitutes a P (Score:2, Insightful)
I liked the templates I found referenced at
Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
Some people just don't want a PDA with a monthly subscription fee attached.
My only want? (Score:3, Interesting)
They haven't caught on because the interface sucks (Score:3, Informative)
You want a serious computer, today, it *must* have a keyboard, otherwise it's a data display device.
For those who don't want to carry a PDA, camera, a laptop and a phone, Nokia have the Communicator devices, everything in one.
Big:
http://www.europe.nokia.com/nokia/0,,54106,00.htm
Small:
http://www.europe.nokia.com/nokia/0,6771,77854,00
Data input was easy on the Newton (Score:2)
That's the Palm legacy for you. Palm kicked Newton ass partly because they used a 'good enough' handwriting technology that resulted in a MUCH cheaper device because it didn't require the massive computing power that Rosetta did. While this was appropriate at the time it's now a legacy anchor holding back a major portion of the PDA marketplace.
Yes, there are better handwriting recognition engines on some PDA's, but those devices tend to be coupled with
Let's design ou dream device (Score:2)
- Small factor that I could carry with me in my pocket. Pants pocket preferred, but I could settle for belt or jacket.
- Cell phone with high speed wireless access (GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, etc...)
- Possibility to be ONLINE, connected AND one or more phone conversation simultaneously.
- VoIP client integrated to it.
- form factor with small keyboard for basic on the go work.
- OS should be easily upgradable
- sensitive screen so I can take notes on it with an integrated pen.
- Blue tooth, w
Pen based (Score:2)
All thumbs! (Score:2)
-Rick
I love my PDA (Score:2, Informative)
I will be upgrading when im inclined (to a model around $500-$600 CAD), and i guess with HP going out, that is one less model i need to be concerned with researching w
And HP helped kill it. (Score:2)
Seems like only yesterday ... (Score:2)
I wonder how many people blew their $$$ chasing that fad?
Nokia 770 (Score:2)
Word for Windows for Workgroups for Pen Computing (Score:2)
Penpads have the opportunity to make most interfaces to info
Something, just evolved (Score:2)
On another note, I've always enjoyed messing with HP stuff - it's generally interesting and sometimes even esoteric... BUT... If I were trying to get my product into the world's consciousness, I wouldn't name it iPaq xr4900Bni6lQwlTurbo2.0
Which product is "on it's death bed?" (Score:3, Insightful)
But when devices converge, and you get one thing that is a cell phone, and a camera, and an MP3 player, and a GPS/mapping/directions device, and it manages and hotsyncs your email and address book and lets you edit them, then how can you really say which category of device "won" and which ones "died?" Is it based on the existence of a pen for input that truly defines the PDA? Is it based on whether you end up buying the device at an office supply store or a cell-phone store? Is it based on which predecessor device the new device looks the most like?
I don't think PDA functionality is going away, it's either being subsumed or else subsuming the functions of other devices. I think that when functionality is integrated, arguing over which previously separate set of functionality "won" and which "died" is just pointless semantic quibbling.
about damn time (Score:3)
Re:Dieing? (Score:2, Funny)
An Itanic Response (Score:2)