Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Check out the new SourceForge HTML5 internet speed test! No Flash necessary and runs on all devices. ×

Konqueror Passes the Acid2 Test Too 372

An anonymous reader writes "A month after Safari , and after a lot of controversy, Allan Sandfeld Jensen announced today that Konqueror passes the Acid2 test too. Half of the patches could be merged from Apple's Webcore, the rest needed to be rewritten from scratch."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Konqueror Passes the Acid2 Test Too

Comments Filter:
  • Acid2 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BibelBiber ( 557179 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:41AM (#12723562)
    Sorry, dont know what that is. Could someone post a link...
    • Re:Acid2 (Score:5, Funny)

      by minionman ( 643063 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:46AM (#12723593)
    • Re:Acid2 (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:51AM (#12723634)
      http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/ [webstandards.org]

      basically it's a rigorous test that ensures that a browser has all the goodies that web developers have been lusting after forever.
      • basically it's a rigorous test that ensures that a browser has all the goodies that web developers have been lusting after forever.

        I wouldn't say that much... Gecko renders the smiley face pretty shoddily but copes with almost all web pages fine, for example. If you look at the source, the acid2 test uses bizarre things like PNG images in the source, negative height values, clear float elements, and so on - things that should work, but aren't likely to come up on many web pages any time soon.

        Although, it
        • Re:Acid2 (Score:4, Interesting)

          by bunratty ( 545641 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @11:36AM (#12723930)
          Of course those features won't be used on web pages until web browsers implement them. That's the whole purpose of Acid2 -- to break the chicken-and-egg deadlock. Web developers don't use these features because web browsers don't support them, and web browsers don't bother supporting them because web developers don't use them.

          When all popular web browsers do a decent job of rendering Acid2, web developers can use the features that have been promised for years, but have never been delivered by browser makers. Having Safari and Konqueror display Acid2 correctly gives the other browser manufacturers added incentive to implement the needed CSS2 features.

          • Re:Acid2 (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 04, 2005 @12:22PM (#12724198)
            When IE does a decent job web developers can use the features that have been promised for years. It is IE that is holding back so many nice CSS features that are supported else where.
        • Progress? It's all smoke and screenshots. There are no releases of Konqueror or Safari that pass this test. Mozilla and Microsoft might as well go ahead and announce that hey, they pass it too!
      • Re:Acid2 (Score:2, Informative)

        by WiKKeSH ( 543962 )
        Actually, rather than testin gfor full CSS compatibality, the ACID test makes sure that when broken CSS is put into a CSS document, it breaks correctly.
    • Re:Acid2 (Score:5, Funny)

      by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:52AM (#12723645)
      Its the exciting sequel to Acid1, The Dissolving. In the sequel the hero struggles valiantly with acid indigestion as he battles to save the world.
  • Glad to see it... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jsight ( 8987 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:44AM (#12723583) Homepage
    I for one am very glad that the Gecko/Mozill engine is not our only choice in free software based renderers. There is some security in seeing that we have at least two projects with excellent browsers available for the community.

    Congrats Konqueror team!

    I wonder if anyone is working on a Windows port of this?
  • Konqueror (Score:2, Redundant)

    by bcmm ( 768152 )
    I have been using Konqueror a bit more that usual recently because it loads quicker that Firefox, and I still find myself switching to Fx for pages that render wrong
    • I still find myself switching to Fx for pages that render wrong

      This could be because the page itself is broken but it works in IE. Being standards compliant is very different from being able to render the same as in IE. Firefox has probably spent a little more effort on mimicking IE's quirks and less on standards compliancy.

      It's good to have both browsers to choose from.
    • I have been using Konqueror a bit more that usual recently because it loads quicker that Firefox, and I still find myself switching to Fx for pages that render wrong

      Care to paste the URLs or are you simply on a rant?

    • I usually do the opposite. newegg renders badly in firefox by default unless I adjust font sizes, so I usually go to it in konq. Even more strange, neither of them can render circuitcity.com correctly, but netscape 7 can (but that's under Windows at my job, haven't tried it in linux), go figure.

      I find myself going back to firefox because konq tends to pause a bit on some sites (especially flash and animated gif heavy sites) before rendering the page. To be truthful, the actual time I wait to get a page I
      • What problems do you have with circuitcity.com? I just checked in Konqueror (3.4.1) and it rendered fine for me. Is it a subpage and not just the main page? If your not running KDE 3.4.1 (released tuesday) then upgrading to the newest version may fix whatever problems you have.
        • Sweet, didn't know there was a new KDE out :). Usually /. will post new about it. In 3.4.0 the middle tab bar at the top will overrun the other two between in, as well as overlap some of the text above it. It doesn't affect functionality, but it bugs me. I'll got download and install 3.4.1 now :)
    • Konqueror is usually a better, faster, lighter browser than firefox, but is less stable and still has some weird rendering bugs.

      For example, this site i developed [ica.org.ve] can't center the table properly, with valid css code. On firefox it works fine.
      • Konqueror 3.3.1 (Mandrake Linux 10.1), tables on that page are all centred ferpectly [sic]. On the few sites where I cared to check, 3.4.1 renders quirks much more competently than 3.3.1, and AFAICT it will only get better when these patches are integrated.
  • by MarkByers ( 770551 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:47AM (#12723607) Homepage Journal
    Both Safari and Konqueror have improved because of Open Source. Even though the two teams worked independently, they benefited from having access to the other's code.

    Does it really matter what Apple's motivations were? The end result is that Open Source development has helped both products.
    • by IamTheRealMike ( 537420 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @11:14AM (#12723782)
      Even though the two teams worked independently, they benefited from having access to the other's code.

      The Konqueror team don't have access to the Safari code, at least not in a form they can use. Apple do have access to the KHTML code in a usable form though, the KDE guys make sure it's available in the right way for everybody.

      Does it really matter what Apple's motivations were? The end result is that Open Source development has helped both products.

      Clearly it does matter what their motivations are, this always matters. It means in future open source projects will know what's coming when Apple decide to get "involved".

      As to whether it helped both products, well of that I'm sceptical. A key KDE developer has very publically burnt out on KHTML because of Apples actions and worse, because of the community of Apple fanboys who switched the blame around onto the KDE people. After starting out optimistic he's now bitter. I'd say that's a pretty huge loss.

      Meanwhile, Apple got the code to a rendering engine for free and gave back little to nothing. It's like TransGaming all over again.

      • The Konqueror team don't have access to the Safari code, at least not in a form they can use.

        The fact that they were able to use ha;f the patches says otehrwise. They may not have access to ALL the code. But they do have access to at least some of it as demonstrated by the FACT that they used it.

        As to whether it helped both products, well of that I'm sceptical.

        Well is passes Acid2 now. Something is better. You're just trying to paint the worst face possible on something that is a mixture of good a
      • The Konqueror team don't have access to the Safari code, at least not in a form they can use.

        Apple's doing the minimum stated in the license... if the Konqueror team doesn't like this, they used the wrong license.

      • The Konqueror team don't have access to the Safari code, at least not in a form they can use.

        According the the summary, half of the patches were taken from Apple. They might not have access in ideal form, but it's better than nothing.

        It means in future open source projects will know what's coming when Apple decide to get "involved".

        If Apple didn't base Safari on KHTML, Konqueror wouldn't be Acid2 compliant now. From TFA:

        All in all not a bad reuse of code, allthough slow.

        The developers understand t
      • I'm really not certain I comprehend this. Apple wrote code which they contributed to KHTML, and this is bad. What's more, Apple wrote code which BURNED OUT KHTML DEVELOPERS!

        Strangely, I feel no sympathy for a developer who gets burned out when a big company writes code for them...

        "Meanwhile, Apple got the code to a rendering engine for free and gave back little to nothing."

        This is an obscene bit of rhetorical hopscotch. Apple did exactly what companies SHOULD be doing. They took advantage of open source
      • by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @12:25PM (#12724227)
        The Konqueror team don't have access to the Safari code, at least not in a form they can use.

        Actions speak otherwise- half the patches integrated according to the article.

        It means in future open source projects will know what's coming when Apple decide to get "involved".

        Yes. They can expect to get regular tarballs, participation of senior team leaders, active dialog on public mailing lists, and assistance of Apple engineers in interpreting the tarballs.

        (No, seriously. Go read the archives and look at the discussion that follows when Apple sends in a code base. The "burnt out guy" whines. Another developer or two actually get to work and look at the code, start talking to Apple engineers, etc. An Apple engineer says "let me take a look at that" and a little bit later, comes back as promised with an answer and help.)

        After starting out optimistic he's now bitter.

        Optimistic is a funny word. He seemed under the impression that Apple was obligated to provide changelogs, access to internal revision control systems, etc. He also got upset when he realized that Apple had forked code. It sounds like he had unreasonable expectations, and when Apple said "I'm sorry, we can't do that" or "I'm sorry, we're not allowed to do that", he threw a hissy fit.

        The Konqueror developer in question also used a logical fallacy called "Stacking the deck", a kind of fallacy-by-omission. He did not discuss any of Apple's assistance provided to developers on the mailing list, and repeatedly asserted that Apple was meeting "minimum" requirements of the LGPL, when in fact Apple was doing more.

        That is why he got burned. Not because of actions on Apple's part- and your insinuation that Apple is to blame for the actions of its "Apple fanboys" is absurd. You're distracting from the core issue- that the developer used fallacies to promote his version of the facts. Sadly, few people bothered to actually read the mailing list exchanges.

        Apple got the code to a rendering engine for free and gave back little to nothing

        Again, you're distorting facts. Apple gave back all the code it was obligated to, and participated in an active dialog. If half of Apple's patches were integrated within less than a few months, that's a lot more than "little to nothing". Question- how long would it have taken the KHTML developers to become Acid2 compliant without the contributions by Apple? And if the patches were so worthless, why did they "waste" time and effort if writing their own stuff from scratch would have been more productive, as was implied if not outright stated by khtml developers?

        • by bluGill ( 862 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @12:45PM (#12724344)

          The developer in question was not mad at Apple per say, they were doing what was required. He was mad at people thinking Apple was doing something useful for KDE/khtml. Apple was not making things useful for KDE, but they were fullfilling all their obligations.

          Once he spoke against those non-Apple, non-KDE people, those people tried to deflect the blame to Apple. Apple to their credit realized how the publicity was hurting them and changed their ways.

          Once again, the KDE devs were not mad at Apple. They were disgusted because of being unable to get something useful, but not mad. They were mad at people who thought without checking that Apple was doing something useful.

  • IE, when? (Score:5, Funny)

    by chrysalis ( 50680 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:47AM (#12723612) Homepage
    Now we are waiting for IE to support the ACID2 test.

    And only then, we could design web sites using today's CSS features. Oh, not today's, 5 years ago's but it will still be a revolution.
    • Re:IE, when? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rdc_uk ( 792215 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @10:56AM (#12723676)
      Actually, given the nature of Acid2, it would only allow us to code _broken_ css on these browsers, and have it break _correctly_.

      Acid2 tests a lot of corner-case mis-constructions of CSS, and tests that the browser handles the cock-up in the prescribed manner. It doesn't actually test that _correct_ CSS is handled correctly.

      Its a good test, but its NOT a full CSS compliance test.
      • Re:IE, when? (Score:4, Informative)

        by zxSpectrum ( 129457 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @11:11AM (#12723769) Homepage Journal
        So, then I presume you can point out each and every aspect of Acid2 that violates CSS 2.1.

        We'll also expect you to hold your breath doing this excercise on a live webcam, so we can see you turn blue in the face.

        The acid2 test consists of perfectly valid CSS2.1, HTML 4.01, SGML, RFC 2396 and RFC 2397. It tests some basic, and some not-so-basic aspects of these specs.
        • And, whacking myself with the cluehammer: It does contain invalid statements, but these are not the main point of the test.
      • Acid2 tests a lot of corner-case mis-constructions of CSS, and tests that the browser handles the cock-up in the prescribed manner. It doesn't actually test that _correct_ CSS is handled correctly.

        This is the second or third time I've seen this posted in this article alone. You are completely wrong. You would know this if you had actually read the code or even just the guided tour [webstandards.org].

        The guided tour explains that there are a number of features tested; it lists eleven areas of the specifications th

    • ...just disable the good bits for IE users and leave a link behind to a page explaining their loss and the reason for it and what they can do to fix it (abandon MSIE for something safer and more compliant).
    • Actually, Mozilla doesn't pass the test either.
    • please read this parent post again:

      Now we are waiting for IE to support the ACID2 test.


      It is currently scored "Interesting". Did nobody find the "funny" moderation option or are you taking this serious?
  • I think it's great that the KHTML team have managed to pass the ACID2 test only a month behind Apple. However, I am skeptical if this kind of pace can be continued in the future. Firstly, it looks like the KHTML developers might have been working harder than usual just to pass the test so that they wouldn't lose face. As the two code bases diverge (they only merged half of Apple's patches) it will become increasingly difficult for the KHTML guys to keep up. Webcore is effectively a fork, and there's a dimin
  • That's easy (Score:5, Funny)

    by paul248 ( 536459 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @11:18AM (#12723807) Homepage
    Of course, the final patch looked something like this:
    if (!strcmp(url, "http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/test.html" )) loadUrl("reference.html");
  • by baadger ( 764884 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @11:46AM (#12723991)
    Opera is making excellent progress with Acid2 [opera.com]. Only a few more lines to go. They are treading softly with regression testing.
  • I'm using Safari Version 2.0 (412) right now on Tiger (10.4.1) and the test does not render correctly. Is this some unreleased version they're talking about?
    • Re:Safari does what? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Justin205 ( 662116 )
      In a word, yes. The version of Webcore that renders Acid2 correctly, is not in the released versions of Safari yet. It'll probably come as an update sometime in the next year or so.
  • by Karma Sucks ( 127136 ) on Saturday June 04, 2005 @12:14PM (#12724142)
    In related news: In an effort to open up their development process the developers of the Konqueror components KHTML, KJS and KSVG have launched the open Web portal KHTML.info [khtml.info]. By providing a central contact point and source of information in form of an open Wiki the developers want to promote their work and embrace users and developers from both Open Source as well as commercial environments.

What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.

Working...