WinOS+QEMU+Knoppix 3.8 = WinKnoppix! 356
chronicon writes "As reported earlier Knoppix 3.8 was presented and CD's distributed at CeBIT recently. For those of us who were not able to attend, some kind folks have posted a torrent for all to enjoy.
Now, here's where it really gets interesting. Using QEMU (processor emulator) chris-uk has posted a modified version of Knoppix 3.8 that will run under Windows if auto-played, or if you wish, you can boot the CD for normal Knoppix. You can find the torrent here."
Yes, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:3, Funny)
I think my brain just exploded.
Re:Yes, but... (Score:2)
From penny arcade:
"I call it the eternal jackass. There were levels of meaning there I couldn't even begin to comprehend."
Re:Yes, but... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:2)
Metaphor (Score:2)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:3, Funny)
Off topic, but VPC (Score:2)
Those programmers DO have a sense of humor after all!
(I wanted to see OS X run Windows to run Linux
Re:Off topic, but VPC (Score:2)
Mac OS -> Virtual PC -> Windows ->VMware -> Linux -> PearPC -> Mac OS X (repeat ad infinitum)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, it can.
I tried the simplest application I could think of: Putty. And it worked. I ran Putty within Wine within X-windows within Knoppix within QEMU within WinXP. I wonder how much further I could take it...
By the way, I am posting this message within Konqueror within X-windows within Knoppix within QEMU within WinXP.
- pi
So in otherwords. . . (Score:2, Interesting)
Umm (Score:5, Funny)
now all they need to do.... (Score:5, Funny)
my granny.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:They have something better: (Score:3, Funny)
That's ok, I'm gay.
Re:OT: www.oliverthered.f2s.com (Score:2)
I can't live without ActiveX.... just kidding! hmm.... I'm kinda used to the IE interface - habit I guess. Been using it for years, since I never liked Netscape. Also, Firefox doesn't *seem* as snappy. On slower machines it takes ages to start up.
Re:OT: www.oliverthered.f2s.com (Score:2)
WinKnoppix! (Score:5, Funny)
hope for good performance (Score:4, Insightful)
on top of qemu comes the fact, that the whole system runs from a cd, which by itself has bad seek times.
i hope that people won't get false implessions, because they will get that 'linux runs slower than windows' feeling.
Re:hope for good performance (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:hope for good performance (Score:4, Informative)
Time to try Linux (again) (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux has been a frustration of mine for the past 4 years. I know a smattering of Unix commands and even armed with that I still can't ever seem to get a program downloaded and working like I can with windows. I'm looking forward to trying it again before I make the
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:2)
Debian and enough HE can solve all of lifes problems.
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:2)
Audio Linux ((Time to try Linux (again)) (Score:2, Informative)
I'm hoping they will release it as an installable distro at some point. The demo scripts worked great for patching different applications through jackd w/ ALSA. Very cool.
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:2)
Before the knee-jerk reaction, try looking around a little. Agnula [agnula.org] has both Debian and Redhat based live CDs loaded with professional audio applications, which work out of the box.
Also, the results you get using JACK + Ardour + Hydrogen + Jamin are comperable, if not superior, to available commercial solutions. (Well, assuming that you're using professional hardware ... )
Re:Time to try Linux (again) (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.dynebolic.org/
it's a linux live cd that comes with audacity and other tools for multimedia editing/broadcasting etc.
Unless your hardware is exotic, you should just be able to boot and use the software you're interested in.
Be warned that it comes with a more lightweight desktop, but it's probably the easiest way to try out audacity yourself, IMHO.
what about coLinux? (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, it's difficult to deny the power of running a gameboy emulator on a GBA emulator on a Linux emulator on a Windows emulator on your Mac...
Re:what about coLinux? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure, even when you restrict it to the presently relevant set of cases (x86/Linux inside x86/Win32): coLinux has no (non-experimental) framebuffer support; the experimental version that does exist has its performance measured in seconds per frame. The only way to run X is by having an X server on your Windows box, and you can't run Qt/E or GtkFB or such at all. If you want to do embedded systems development, this can be a substantial issue.
If you don't restrict yourself to that subset of cases, then QEMU wins on account of having support for far more than just a custom build of the Linux kernel. (Want to play with FreeDOS? Test your new build of of GRUB? Run through the SLES9 installer? The first two of these simply aren't possible in coLinux, and the 3rd one requires a lot of work to make it happen).
Also, COFS is so experimental/unstable I'm not sure I'd claim it as a feature yet.
Re:what about coLinux? (Score:2)
use coLinux+VNC (Score:2)
CoLinux works like a charm using VNC: you run a VNC server on the Linux side and a VNC client on the Windows side. A side-benefit is that you can actually disconnect from the coLinux process and reconnect later.
As far as I'm concerned, coLinux is the only way to go for running Linux under Windows these days; it is superior in just about every way to any of the commercial or free solutions.
If you don't restrict yourself to that subset o
Re:use coLinux+VNC (Score:3, Insightful)
VNC is not exactly fast or efficient -- being a local display mechanism isn't what it's designed for, and it shows.
I know that. That's why I addressed "the presently relevant set of cases" and a more general situation independantly.
Every post in this thread I've written from Firefo
OP has a torrent (Score:5, Insightful)
Now only if others would follow.
Re:OP has a torrent (Score:2)
Once multiple seeds exist things will pick up consideribly.
Re:OP has a torrent (Score:2)
VMWare (Score:4, Funny)
Re:VMWare (Score:3, Interesting)
Mirrors (Score:2, Informative)
What about CoLinux? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.colinux.org [colinux.org]
You can use it to run linux from some other partition too. It comes with a version of debian built it, but there are other packages for other distros.
You can also try topologilinux.
http://wwwtopologilinux.com [wwwtopologilinux.com]
It's a bundled installation of coLinux and slackware with all bells and whistles.
Torrent... (Score:2)
Re:Torrent... (Score:2)
Just like with http, you need a strong enough server. If you have your tracker on a dsl line running on a via c3, not even bittorrent will be able to help you.
This allows dual-use of both Windows and KNOPPIX (Score:3, Interesting)
It is, after all, emulation, so don't expect to break speed records with it. Also that IP connection limitation in XP won't be broken by running KNOPPIX in an emulator.
Now KNOPPIX can join the ranks of MacOS 8.1 (BasiliskII), AmigaOS 3.1 (Amiga Forever), as yet another OS emulated under Windows.
The advantage I see for this is that web developers will finally be able to check how their web pages look under different browsers and operating systems without having to reboot Windows each time they want to look how it looks under Linux.
The next step is to make KNOPPIX run AntiVirus, AntiSpyware, AntiAdware, and AntiTrojan removal programs and make any FAT32, FAT16, or NTFS partition as read/write so the Malware can be removed. Yet what is the point when you can run the KNOPPIX HD Install script and get rid of Windows and all of its flaws that allow Malware to be installed in the first place.
P.S. I am moving to KANOTIX now, it seems to be a bit better than KNOPPIX.
Are they insane? (Score:4, Insightful)
They're going to end up convincing dumb windows users that Linux is slow as hell!
Before you say anything, keep in mind that they are running QEMU on windows, and the QEMU virtualizer is closed-source and linux only. So they can ONLY do full emulation.
Re:Are they insane? (Score:5, Insightful)
b) QEMU is the fastest (99%) Free emulator, and QEMU is getting faster all the time. There is a strong emphasis on speed by Fabrice
c) Yes Knoppix will run slower under emulation than natively, and Knoppix doesn't run as fast as a native Linux install. But there are obvious speedups laying around. This looks like a first cut by some developer.
But I think there is one obvious case where this can be useful, in the particular situation where a machine is locked down so that you can't boot install CDs without a password, and the user does not have admin priveleges. Also, it may be useful for users who aren't willing to boot a Linux CD since they are afraid that it will wipe something out.
Re:Are they insane? (Score:2)
Re:Are they insane? (Score:3, Informative)
QEMU has the right emphasis from the beginning. To make something that is fast and usable.
And that's what it is, on several platforms. It's got the momentum, why divide up resources? QEMU will run on more platforms, and is getting the same virtualization goodies as Xen. The tiny virtualization kernel is open source but non-free till Fabrice can get some funding, but have some faith based on his entire body of Free software contributions that it will also b
Re:Are they insane? (Score:2)
Also, from a technical perspective, aren't there concerns over how secure [usenix.org] virtualized machines can be on 2004-era x86 machines?
... Slight modifications to the processor would significantly facilitate development of a highly secure
Re:Are they insane? (Score:3, Informative)
But the intent as stated by Fabrice is to get sponsorship so that eventually KQEMU can eventually be Free. So, essentially KQEMU module is a kind of ransomware.
-- John.
Re:Are they insane? (Score:3, Funny)
Of course, Knoppix already did this, because running and booting from a live cd is painfully slow anyhow. So now the slowness will double (unless it just cancels out, such as by the IO delays happening in parrellel with the CPU emulation lag, somehow)
www.knoppix.net (Score:2, Interesting)
Is this this the first time a site has been
I christen it, the slashdot halo effect.
Re:www.knoppix.net (Score:3, Informative)
Knoppix on Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
Discussions ensued about how to make it faster... some patches are available to directly mount the compressed Knoppix volume so that portion doesn't need to be emulated. Also, the SaveVM feature was improved, so rather than boot knoppix, just keep a compressed VM ram image on the Knoppix CD. That makes it boot instantaneously.
QEMU is the fastest thing going as far as Free emulators, given more improvements on the virtualization side, I think this will be *the* way to run Knoppix for Windows users that just want to try it out. The speed will come in time.
Some of us pushed for features like User Mode Networking in QEMU just for this purpose. Windows users in larger corporations often do not have administrator level rights, so they can't install any special drivers. So Knoppix under QEMU can get right to the net on any Windows box that will run a
-- John.
Re:Knoppix on Windows (Score:2)
No, I think the way will be CoLinux, which already runs a lot faster than QEMU, and which will (in upcoming releases) give far better integration with the host OS.
QEMU is useful for lots of purposes, but for running Linux under Windows, coLinux is a better tool in my experienc
URL for "QEMU and coLinux with KNOPPIX" at AIST (Score:2, Informative)
http://unit.aist.go.jp/itri/knoppix/qemu/index-en. html [aist.go.jp]
coLinux with KNOPPIX
http://unit.aist.go.jp/itri/knoppix/colinux/index- en.html [aist.go.jp]
Here is an installer to NTFS of Windows2000/XP.
Install2win
http://unit.aist.go.jp/itri/knoppix/win/index-en.h tml [aist.go.jp]
Getting close... (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Allow people to apt-get packages while the CD is running. Then...
2. Import user files from Win into a Knoppix-side directory. Finally...
3. (this is the important one) Press a button and presto! The system builds an ISO of original winknoppix+packages+userfiles that is a no-fuss super-customized knoppix CD!
If they could make that... then a seamless transition to Linux goodness would finally be within reach for everyone!
Re:Getting close... (Score:2)
Very handy to have. (Score:3, Interesting)
non-torrent? (Score:2)
Is there an FTP or non-P2P method of which I can grab this file?
Does it work? (Score:2, Interesting)
We Are In This Together (Score:2)
Windows to Knoppix: Um, I am carrying you now. I fall, you fall. And my uptime is approaching 24 hours...
Knoppix( aside ) - And I wonder who thought this matchup was a good idea...
bugs.... (Score:2)
everyone overestimate average windows users (Score:2, Insightful)
A quicker way to run QEMU+and your iso on Win (Score:3, Interesting)
Downloaded and ran win version of qemu
Create an image file bigger than your iso using qemu
Point to your ISO
Run! (Knoppix took about 8 mins on old PIII laptop)
Portable Virtual Privacy Machine (Score:5, Informative)
Change Notes? (Score:2)
Re:Great, But... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Great, But... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Great, But... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Great, But... (Score:5, Insightful)
It just removes one more hurdle. People aren't going to wipe out their system just because the local geek said "its ready for the desktop".
People need some proof that it really is better.
Re:Great, But... (Score:2)
Re:Great, But... (Score:2)
Re:Great, But... (Score:2)
Or testing a cross-platform software you're developing... of course, considering an emergency situation where you can't install Linux of course.
Re:Great, But... (Score:3, Insightful)
You're right about Knoppix not needing an installation process, but in the case of naive Windows users, even asking them to reboot can be a scary concept for them.
The other case where I can see this being useful is when you're trying to demonstrate Knoppix to someone and they already have work running on their Windows desktop - spreadsheets, telnet sessions, and things of that nature. If they can see Linux running within a window, they'll be much more likely to play around with it since they know that t
Re:Great, But... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh the horror of rebooting a windows machine!!! I'd say that it's akin to the terror of sleep, but sleep only comes once a day
Re:Great, But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm, I think you're exaggerating a bit... Windows users should (and I'm not even joking) be quite used to booting and rebooting their systems. Even my mom would understand the implications of restarting the computer.
Re:Great, But... (Score:2)
You have GOT to be kidding. Rebooting is the first thing Windows users learn how to do properly!
Re:Great, But... (Score:2)
Actually, it doesn't usually require any interaction on their parts most of the time.
After phoning TechSupp a few times they get the hang of it though =)
Re:Great, But... (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, people are asking why this is scary. Here's why:
You reboot, and suddenly, all this small text in bright colours is crawling across your screen (at least, that's what Knoppix did, the last time I tried it). Your Windows environment is gone. You don't know if it's coming back, or even if it's reformatting your hard drive, that's what it's supposed to look like, right?
Yeah, I know, this crap is irrational. But guess what, if the world was purely rational, Microsoft would have gone out of business ages ago...
Having Knoppix run on the Windows desktop is reassuring. It lets you know that Windows is still there and you can return there at any time, and since all your icons are still on your desktop, your files must therefore be safe. Yeah, more irrational fears, sorry, but that's how many people think.
Re:Great, But... (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree though, Live eval cds are invaluable, and are preferable to running a slower emulated environment, but this cd allows both options, so why not say its a good thing?
Re:Great, But... (Score:2)
(Usually it's to run a disk drive diagnostic though. Those before-mentioned Dells have hard disks that tend to drop like flys)
Re:Great, But... (Score:3, Interesting)
But even above and beyond that, it's nice to know that I have access to a Linux environment without having to do anything but pop in a CD.
Re:I have that, too (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I have that, too (Score:2)
Re:beowulf (Score:2, Interesting)
A side note: being that the poster was smart enough to link to a torrent tracker in the story, I'm interested to see just how big this torrent will get, as i speak, the tracker lists over 800 hosts, 200+ seeds and over 600 leechers. The largest torrent i've ever seen was on bt.etree.org [etree.org] with
Re:beowulf (Score:2)
Re:Woohoo a torrent! (Score:2)
slowness /w BT ~= router lack of configuration (Score:3, Informative)
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
The bigger advantage for users is the number of applications freely available for Linux.
What comes with a new Windows machine? Usually a lot of "lite" versions of various payware. Word processor, maybe. Eventually the system gets hosed and even those may be lost.
I don't think most users have any idea what it's like to thi
Naw... (Score:2, Informative)
Yes, I'm sharing too.. 16KB/s up is my limit for torrents (384K DSL uplink).
Re:Login? Why?-is it illegal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Somebody please explain... (Score:2)
Its not completely useless it would be good for testing cross-platform apps or web pages.
Re:Somebody please explain... (Score:2)
Re:Drivers? (Score:2)
Re:Drivers? (Score:2)
nVidia is the only way to go.
My aunt and KNOPPIX (Score:2)
She refused to run it. She thouth "KNOPPIX" meant "no pics" as in "no graphics."
I explained what it was but she still refused to try it, because all the r4d d00dz on her course told her that Linux was an abomination, unclean, and not to be let near a Windows PC. Windows was the best OS in the world, and that dodgy Linux thing might mess up your PC.
Other attempts at Linu