Sun Opens OpenSolaris.Org 357
An anonymous reader writes "Sun has launched the first version of opensolaris.org, featuring a small initial drop of source code. The idea is to make a display of good faith to the Solaris community while the rest of the source code due diligence is completed. The source code for Dynamic Tracing (DTrace) is available for download under the terms of the newly OSI-approved CDDL license."
Now that's a concept (Score:5, Funny)
Sun really seems to like the Open-.org naming convention. They are probably trying to oppose Steve Jobs' iNaming.
Re:Now that's a concept (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Now that's a concept (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Now that's a concept Uh oh (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't like this one bit. Why this emphasis on Netbeans, OpenThis, OpenThat if these programs run on any hardware? Hardware that is normally cheaper than Sun(although admitedly not as cool)?
If every Sun software became open then Sun, the hardware company, will go the way of VA-Linux.
Have they given up and are now willing to die shooting (at Microsoft)? What is left in their magic hats now that Solaris is free?
Re:Now that's a concept Uh oh (Score:5, Interesting)
Though Sun's definition of "Open" has traditionally been "open standards", as opposed to the F/OSS definition which I believe to be "open implementations".
Re:Now that's a concept (Score:2)
Actually, now that you mentionned it, I'm surprised no one actually claimed patent rights on file > Open...
Hot-Swappable (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:5, Insightful)
On the bright side, hot swappable processors, memory and pci cards are already in linux. enjoy!
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2, Funny)
write from scratch? Are you mad? lets just copy it over like we did with all that stuff from sco
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2, Interesting)
If not then doesn't that mean that sun are
deliberetely trying to sobotache GNU/Linux from
the inside out by having people peruse the solaris code and then later cry foul when similar code or features creep into GNU/Linux ?
Perhaps I'm just paranoid.
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2)
http://www.opensolaris.org/license/cddl_license.h
And it looks to me as if it would be as easy/hard to put OpenSolaris bits into GNU/Linux as it would to do the reverse.
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2)
Of course, there are other hardware brands that do this as well, but the one for Solaris is likely to be written specifically for Sun hardware, and none other.
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2)
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:2, Interesting)
I just hope Solaris doesn't end up being competition to opensouce, Linux or BSD's (Some recent articles are claiming so) but instead just provides to the community like using either Linux or Freebsd, both providing the same tools to use and all of them having their uses.
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:3, Insightful)
The only thing you need the Linux "emulator" for is Linux *binaries*. If the code is Free Software and isn't kernel specific, just port it instead of emulating it. In reality it's only there for proprietary software like Oracle and Acrobat.
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:5, Insightful)
I can take a device driver written for Solaris version X, and chances are pretty good that it "will just work" on Solaris X+1 and maybe even X+2. (heck, I've even seen a single device driver module "supported" on multiple versions by a HW vendor) The only real requirement is that the module be built for the same architecture as the kernel (i.e. a 32-bit module won't work on a 64-bit kernel, and vice versa).
Re:Hot-Swappable (Score:3, Insightful)
It is also to discourage binary modules, as they impossible to debug if they cause the kernel to crash.
What the parent said, without the flying spittle (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a big world out there, and not one solution is always right for everything.
Outside of the knee-jerk reactions on /. , the whole world should not switch overnight to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP. Sometimes, other systems are the right answer, for many complex reasons.
I happen to have a particular fondness for Solaris, having been a fan of their hardware for the last 15 years. It's the Devil I know, and I'm comfortable dancing with him.
I think it's amusingly disingenuous of the slashdot Linux-s
Re:What the parent said, without the flying spittl (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because it's all labeled linux doesn't mean it's all the same. If there are two opposing camps who disagree on how a component is best designed BOTH will be written and available for compilation. There isn't one linux, there are hundreds of linuxes. It may have the same name, but the linux you run on a wristwatch is NOT
Dynamic Tracing (Score:2)
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:2)
I would guess not. Most of those weird-named technologies are only useful on multi-processor systems and servers where CPU cycles are really an issue.
If I had more cycles I could probably do more posting on Slashdot...
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:2)
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:3, Informative)
False. DTrace can be used to analyze the operation of any system that runs Solaris 10, from 1 CPU to 100+. It can tell you useful information about a single thread's interaction with the system or 1000 threads' interactions with each other. It can even tell you about things that have nothing to do with either the number of CPUs or the number of threads.
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:2)
A normal user wouldn't use it directly, but a normal user would benefit from its use.
It's a very powerful debugging tool. It'll help programmers debug programs.
Then again, considering how many programmers don't even bother fixing compiler warnings ("eh, it compiles and runs, good enough for me"), it remains to be seen whether or not developers would actually use it.
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:5, Informative)
From it, I shamelessly lifted the following brief synopsis:
Q. What is DTrace?
Q. What are the benefits of DTrace?
Q. What are the key highlights of DTrace?
Q. What is the performance overhead of DTrace?
Q. How does Sun's DTrace compare with competitive offerings?
Q. Can DTrace be used without knowing the D language?
Re:Dynamic Tracing (Score:5, Interesting)
It lets you track/compare/analyze users and processes in real-time to basicly tell you what your computer is really doing and lets you pinpoint who/why it is doing it, system wide, without configuration changes or restarts..
Look forward to a lot of REALLY powerful scripts coming from this(there is an experimental rootkit coming out even, that used dtrace to sniff out passwords in system memory, etc). Very powerful, very dangerous.
Too busy to post (Score:4, Funny)
Shocking, I tell you.
Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be nice to see some Slashdotters give Sun their well deserved props for a change, instead of ripping on them.
"What? You gave us OpenOffice? That's not good enough..." I hoping this thread doesn't turn into another Sun bash fest because this time they deserve a little respect for giving away what I see as the crown jewels of their company.
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:5, Informative)
That's not a question; it is not compatible.
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
If you want to stay clean for Linux, I would not even read about OpenSolaris.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider the following:
One Upmanship ? (Score:2)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:3, Informative)
From my understanding it is similar (identical) in spirit, but not compatible, as each license enforces derived works under its own license, with no mixing of licenses allowed.
Points where GPL and CDDL seem similar in spirit:
* All source (changed and unchanged) must remain
available under the license (GPL#2, CDDL#3.1)
* Any modification must happen under the original
license (GPL#2b, CDDL #3.2).
My personal concern is that
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft doesn't have any control over Sun at all. You might have thought this because MS paid Sun $2 billion as part of a settlement agreement, but really, they did this because they had to and because Sun was willing to do them a favor and let them off easy. If Sun had wanted to keep fighting that fight forever, they could have, and probably would have ended up with more cash, although they might have gone out of business before any damages were won.
Believe me, folks at Sun dislike MS business tactics as much as you do.
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:3, Insightful)
No. They didn't explictly done this to prove anything. Without
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
However, it is possible to create a productive, cohesive community that can benifit Sun manyfold without trust?
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:5, Interesting)
On a personal level, I agree. On an investor level, your comment scares me a bit. Sun still makes up for a decent percentage of my tech portfolio. I would like to understand what Sun is hoping to achieve through this investment.
They are continuing to face declining market shares. They could have used the money to build better hardware and marketing campaigns. They could have also provided enhancements to the existing Linux infrastructure to be better compatible with their hardware.
Still, the geek in me is happy with Sun and I guess that's a start.
--Discount Cartridges [gatewayink.com]
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
We recently looked into getting a support contract from Sun at my place of work, and they quoted us $750,000 for 1 year of bronze support, for a modestly sized lab (probably around 100 machines, half of which are V100's/Netra T105's).
That is for a small lab... I don't want to imagine what bigger labs are paying for their support contracts. I know this doesn't directly address your concern, but I hope it does give you an idea on how much money they are bringing in.
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
A virtual elmination of software piracy as a concern, and serious respect from the high-skill section of the current and potential userbase.
Not to mention an apple-like refocusing of their company.
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
"What?"
"He says they've already got one."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes. It's very nice."
Solaris may be the thing they have of the most value to them, but it's not like the OSS community is sorely lacking in Unix-style operating systems. Even if Solaris were better than any previously-available OSS operating system (which is debateable), it wouldn't be better for developers by the amount necessary to make learning a new set of kernel internals. So this isn't a gift to the OSS community. It is,
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Thank you to the folks at Sun... (Score:2)
1,600 patents (Score:3, Informative)
Their press release at sun.com said OpenSolaris via the CDDL will make 1,600 patents available to open source.
Last plead of Solaris to the OpenSource community (Score:2, Insightful)
I am not sure about you but I
Re:Last plead of Solaris to the OpenSource communi (Score:2)
UNIX was open source long before Linux ever came around. Then things changed and all UNIX was closed source for a while. Now it will be open again. Linux may have affected timing, but hackers and open source would have come around eventually, no matter what.
I am not sure about you but I am not buying this half-hearted OpenSolaris movement.
You won't have to buy it--it will be free!
Re:Last plead of Solaris to the OpenSource communi (Score:2)
I certainly hope this all succeeds. The more competitors in the market, the better their products will become. But Linux's real strength is the community.
Really need... (Score:2)
What I really need, and haven't yet found is a nice overall summary of the key licensing points behind the CDDL from someone who isn't Sun.
Anyone?
Thanks in advance!
Re:Really need... (Score:2, Informative)
There's a FAQ on the new OpenSolaris site about licensing here:
http://www.opensolaris.org/faq/licensing_faq.html [opensolaris.org]
Along with a summary of the changes from the Mozilla license:
http://www.sun.com/cddl/CDDL_why_summary.html [sun.com]
And a redlined diff of what exactly has changed between the MPL and the CDDL (in a pdf file):
http://www.sun.com/cddl/CDDL_MPL_redline.pdf [sun.com]
Re:Really need... (Score:2)
webpage running on linux? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:webpage running on linux? (Score:4, Informative)
Server: Sun-ONE-Web-Server/6.1
Re:webpage running on linux? (Score:2, Informative)
--00:32:30-- http://opensolaris.org/
=> `index.html'
Resolving opensolaris.org... done.
Connecting to opensolaris.org[209.249.116.220]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
1 HTTP/1.1 200 OK
2 Server: Sun-ONE-Web-Server/6.1
3 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:32:31 GMT
4 Content-length: 12972
5 Content-type: text/html
6 Last-modified: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:46:16 GMT
7 Accept-ranges: bytes
8 Connection: keep-alive
200 OK
Re:webpage running on linux? (Score:3, Informative)
nmap -O reports:
OS details: Sun Solaris 9 with TCP_STRONG_ISS set to 2
Dtrace and Linux vs Solaris argument (Score:2)
Re:Dtrace and Linux vs Solaris argument (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:More than 1,600 patents (Score:2)
Now if you want to use dtrace, you have to patch the kernel. Just wondering if both sides are opensourced, since one without the other is useless.
Well, there's a little problem with those patents. (Score:5, Insightful)
They can be enforced against GPL software including the Linux kernel.
Bruce
Re:Well, there's a little problem with those paten (Score:5, Insightful)
Bruce
Re:Well, there's a little problem with those paten (Score:3, Insightful)
Note also that IBM's grant came just in time to drown o
Re:More than 1,600 patents (Score:2)
This is the reason for the continuing criticism of Sun in the F/OSS community. They don't understand the meaning of "free" as in speach. Given this is the philosophy that underpins the entire movement it is hardly surprising Sun's moves are not as appreciated as they would like.
The fifth board member... (Score:2)
FTA: However, a source close to Open Source Risk Management (OSRM), which commissioned Ravicher's review, claimed to know what the Jan. 25 announcement was and told NewsForge that it had nothing to do with Ravicher's study.
So, come on Bruce... what's the announcement. We know they meant you! Spill it baby
Blogs on souce code and DTrace (Score:5, Informative)
82678 lines of C were made public. No registration, no click through license before download. The OpenSolaris FAQ is pretty good [opensolaris.org] btw, and there's also a roadmap page [opensolaris.org].
According to this blog [cuddletech.com] (the entry dated 15:43), those in the pilot program (more than 100 developers out side of Sun) have today gotten access to the entire Solaris source base, and have already built their own version - screen shot [cuddletech.com].
Re:Blogs on souce code and DTrace (Score:2)
Sun press releases (Score:2)
D-Trace Questions. (Score:2)
1. Why has Sun open sourced this of all things?
2. It seems very similar to gdb in role. Is this assumption correct? Does it compare favorably?
3. Is a Linux/BSD/whatever port of this desirable/attainable? Or does it rely to much on the guts of SunOS? Do we have better tools already on those OS's?
Please be gentle.
Re:D-Trace Questions. (Score:2)
Sun Compiler and Tools (Score:3, Interesting)
If it is coming, this is great news. A compiler highly optimized for Sparc may benefit all operating systems that run on it. Who knows, maybe their x86 compiler has some good features too. Sun's libc (probably highly optimized for Sparc) would be a nice thing to have. Anything else?
Re:Sun Compiler and Tools (Score:5, Informative)
CDE? (Score:2)
First look at source... (Score:3, Funny)
Then I realized I opened a C file with Unix returns with notepad.
Oops.
OpenJava.org? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:OpenJava.org? (Score:2)
Quote from the website (Score:2)
Ha! Suck it, SCO!
BEWARE THIS IS SOURCE POISON (Score:3, Informative)
Although the terms of the license would allow you to fork under the gpl or contribute to a gpl'd project sun could still nail you with the patents.
IBM vs. Sun Patent Pledges (Score:4, Informative)
IBM listed a broad range of software licenses, importantly including the GPL, which means linux is covered.
Sun's license so far is limited to Solaris, or at least it looks that way, where they have contributed code under the CDDL. This means if you take a method (or read about a method) that they use in Solaris and apply it elsewhere you can still get slammed.
Not a black and white issue though, as the discerning reader will note that the GPL has not patent clause at all, so the CDDL is stronger in one sense there. Not sure if Linux is any worse off.
But it will be interesting to see how Solaris comes out as open source, incredibly it has gotten to this point for those who remember the Sun of the past (and even some of the current ranting). Losing market share is an incredible motivator it seems
Re:How long... (Score:2)
Is Solaris based on BSD or SysV? (Score:4, Interesting)
If Solaris is based on BSD and has no SCO code in it, I guess that's not an issue. But then why did they take out a SCO license? I imagine some conspiracy theorists will say simply to hurt Linux, but that can't be the whole story, can it?
IBM had a SCO license too, but that's because AIX has SysV code in it. That's not the code they gave to Linux, but if they were to open-source all of AIX and pieces of SCO code migrated to Linux, that would be a problem, no?. So why not with Solaris too?
Re:yay! (Score:2)
Solaris x86 and Solaris SPARC are 90+% the same source code, differing only where porting requires. So, the OS programmers on the SPARC side == the OS programmers on the x86 side.
Re:1600 Patents? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:10 years too late? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe for you - the geek in his parent's basement and a nervous caffine twitch preventing from typing properly - things like a $10k price gap between sun hardware and tigerdirect hardware is an issue. But not for anyone that needs reliability and support.
Yes, things like cooperation are a part of why various open-source based companies are doing well. You know why else they're doing well? They've got sound support, sound development, and a good record to back
Re:Sun just stop! (Score:2)
Re:Sun just stop! (Score:3, Interesting)
Solaris 8 does.
Most x86 hardware doesn't suffer from the transient error bug that the non-ECC cache of the ultrasparcII processor.
Linux works on parking meters.
Solaris doesn't work out of the box with an A1000.
Most quality nics work out of the box with linux.
Most netras and ultras have to either be hardset or vice versa, and won't work the other way.
Don't get me wrong, I like sun hardware (Love LOM), but it and it's software are not perfect.
Re:Sun just stop! (Score:3, Insightful)
Ignoring for a moment the question of whether it's buggy, who gives a damn about Solaris 8? That was the 90s, man. OpenSolaris is based on Solaris 10, the release of which is imminent. It's a boatload of new technology plus two full releases' worth of bug fixes removed from Solaris 8. If you had a bad experience, we're sorry, but please don't continue feeding people misinformation based on a badly outdated release. Should I talk about my exp
Re:Sun just stop! (Score:3, Informative)
There are various types of better. If I have to deploy an e-commerce site that gets thousands of hits a day then perhaps Sun products are better. For anything that isn't scaled on that level the value proposition favors Linux.
Re:This will be great fo the BSDs and gor Solaris (Score:3, Insightful)
The BSDs, however, cannot use any of OpenSolaris' code, because you cannot relicense CDDL code as BSD (if you could, it would be trivial to put it into Linux -- after all, BSD licensed code may be added