Blogging and Sponsorship and Openness 293
Jane_the_Great writes "In an article in the Wall Street Journal it is "revealed" that during the 2004 primaries, the Howard Dean campaign hired bloggers hoping that positive things would be said of Dean in the blogs. The news is from the horse's mouth." It's hard to believe that the WSJ is equating prominently disclosed campaign consulting with secret payments from the U.S. Government treasury to TV personalities in order to promote Republican policies, but they are. (Obeying media rule #1, "Both sides are equally bad", even if they aren't.) Nevertheless, there's an interesting, deeper issue: how transparent should blogging (and all media) be? How could transparency possibly be enforced?
Very transparent. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Very transparent. (Score:2)
Heh. Ya think?
Was he hired from Kuro5hin or something?
no (Score:2)
Re:no (Score:2)
Ah, gotcha... The whole "users moderate the content" thing. It does have it's uses.
Re:Very transparent. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Very transparent. (Score:2)
Are you listening, michael???
journalistic standards (Score:4, Interesting)
Why not criticise People magazine, or the Enquirer? Same thing, I think. Even Jon Stewart of the Daily Show calls his show "fake news".
You think those bloggers might have responded yet? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:You think those bloggers might have responded y (Score:2)
You think it's just a coincindence that KOS is backing Dean for DNC chair, don't you?
Re:journalistic standards (Score:2)
I would hope bloggers are never held down to journalistic standards. You really can't go any lower. At least bloggers are typically honest about their motivations. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion, so its much better to have the bias be obvious instead of sneaky. I've never seen a journalistic article that didn't reek of opinion. Even when relating nothing but the facts, they usually manage through which facts they report.
The only way to arrive close to "transparency" that I could even im
Blogging doesn't need to be transparent. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Blogging doesn't need to be transparent. (Score:2, Insightful)
Nope, liars and opionists flourish in our society, they just have to be entertaining. Blogs that are full of lies and factless opinions will flourish if they present their case with flare and if their conclusions (logical or otherwise) are inline with the beliefs of the people reading the blog. Most people have lost their ability and desire to destinguish a valid argument and would prefer to b
Re:Blogging doesn't need to be transparent. (Score:2)
Re:Blogging doesn't need to be transparent. (Score:2, Interesting)
I hold out CBS, Fox News and Michael Moore documentaries as examples that prove you wrong.
CBS did a story that was proven wrong. They apologized. The left still loves them, the right hates them now.
Fox News. Need I say more. The left still hates them, the right still loves them.
Michael Moore is really just in he
Re:Blogging doesn't need to be transparent. (Score:2)
I'm assuming you're talking about the Forged Memo they put up. If they apologised, I don't recall seeing it. Dan Rather says that there's no evidence to say that those memos are forged.
http://www.rathergate.com/index.php?p=454
The Thornburgh-Boc
au contraire (Score:2)
Re:au contraire (Score:2)
perhaps (Score:2)
(Although of those two DailyKos is, IMO, somewhat more analytical, but you still know before reading any article on there which side it's going to take.)
Re:au contraire (Score:2)
There may be conclusions that you disagree with but everything written there is far more honest,insightful, and truthful than any of the nonsense coming out of the NYT/WashPo/WashTimes/WSJ editorial pages.
Re:Blogging doesn't need to be transparent. (Score:2)
Wow... it happens on both sides (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow... it happens on both sides (Score:3, Funny)
Wow! A thread about political backstabbing, and it's taken as many as four posts to invoke Godwin's Law...
It was transparent (Score:5, Informative)
He was transparent about it and kept a constant reminder about it at the top of the page. Hardly close to the Williams scandal.
Re:It was transparent (Score:2)
Financial compensation by a political organization gives the appearance of being a puppet. I have no doubt that Kos and Rowan Williams sincerely hold their opinions. But once any kind of compensation is involved, the objectivity of the
Re:It was transparent (Score:4, Insightful)
That's miles away from the scandal, and it's just plain disingenuous of the WSJ to make it seem otherwise. I've always liked their paper (but not the editorial page); I'm appalled and depressed by the way they're using the news section to editorialize here. Boo!
Re:It was transparent (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It was transparent (Score:2)
that doesn't seem to be the case (Score:2)
So not unethical on his point of view if he didn't realize that was the goal, but it does seem to be influence-buying under the guise of hiring a technical consultant.
Don't forget Thune (Score:4, Informative)
They don't equate them (Score:5, Insightful)
So that's a big difference in the conduct of the payers: one used tax money and the other used political contributions. But it makes little or no difference in the ethical lapse of the payees - people who represent themselves as presenting their honest opinion and who are taking money from one of the parties about whom they opine.
We wouldn't think a stock analyst could be unbiased if he was on the payroll of one of the companies he reviewed, even if he'd been favorable before he got on the payroll and continued to be so afterwards. Why is Markos any different? A political opinion writer secretly on the payroll of a campaign is an ethical problem, slice it however you want.
Re:They don't equate them (Score:5, Informative)
Re:They don't equate them (Score:4, Interesting)
Still pales in comparison to what Armstrong did.
Re:They don't equate them (Score:3, Insightful)
And yeah, it still pales in comparison to taking government money to support a government viewpoint, and not admitting to any of it.
Re:They don't equate them (Score:3, Insightful)
However, it is also made clear that there was no actual transaction or quid pro quo. They simply hoped that as a result of working for them, he would be more positively disposed toward them.
Re:They don't equate them (Score:3, Informative)
Mr. Moulitsas said they were paid $3,000 a month for four months and he noted that he had posted a disclosure near the top of his daily blog that he worked for the Dean campaign doing "technical consulting." Mr. Armstrong said he shut down his site when he went to work for the campaign, then resumed posting after his contract ended.
Re:They don't equate them (Score:2)
what really worries me is that the dude thinks he didn't do anything wrong.
Re:They don't equate them (Score:2)
They are in favor of lay-offs and Unemployment - "Good for business".
not about result but motives (Score:3, Informative)
For those who think the issues with the Dept. of Education paying off a journalist are new, it was actually more common under the Clinton administration, and equally bad.
Re:not about result but motives (Score:4, Insightful)
I hadn't heard this before - do you have any news links about it? That's not intended as disbelief or criticism, I seriously would like to read more about it.
Politics (Score:4, Interesting)
Why can't the same be done for liberal-biased articles from the NY Times that get posted on Slashdot? Or why can't Michael Moore writeups highlight his twisting of the truth?
Yes this is flamebait, but so is the article writeup.
Document one instance (Score:2)
Show me one documented instance (pointing to a blog is not documentation) where Michael Moore has twisted the truth.
Like him or not his material is thoroughly researched and he's got the documentation to back it up. But I can see why people desperately want to think he doesn't tell the truth. I mean, if he's telling the truth, then you're living a lie and not any smarter than a common dupe.
So, yeah, it's perfectly understandable
Re:Document one instance (Score:2)
Two points:
-If this site doesn't count, then what does?
-If half the discrepancies are true, that is still significant. In my opinion, I feel assured that more than half of the claims are true.
Re:Politics (Score:2)
Pardon my comments if you were really being sarcastic.
Biased Bias (Score:5, Insightful)
What appears to be evolving in the crucible of American politics is a startling robust form of doublethink. Conservatives have unquestionably mastered it; it's not clear if other political groups are for the moment less able or less willing.
Fox News is a propaganda organization; it is so biased as to basically redefine the concept of bias in the U.S. media. But how does it defend itself? By exclaiming that it is the most fair, and the most balanced. In fact, by going even further accusing everyone else of bias.
This kind of audacity is more associated with religious figureheads and communist states. But regardless of who is using it most effectively this week (and believe me, I am cynical about all American professional politicians, regardless of professed ideology), the problem is that the approach is sound, and based on good cognitive psych. It exploits a weakness in the way people think and reason. In layman's terms, it short-circuits the brain. Sadly, vehemence and a threatening posture do figure deeply into the calculus of our decision-making.
When you see through it, you realize it's an extraordinarily cynical trick. The problem is that many, many people are confused by it. In fact, much as Orwell observed, the lie is embraced especially well by people who know it is a lie. These are the people who, for instance, engage in revert wars in Wikipedia over the Fox News entry.
It is the human's great strenght and weakness: we are fully capable of lively psychological engagement with paradoxes and contradictions.
In order to prevent societal free-fall, it will be necessary for each of us to learn to see through this kind of technique, call a spade a spade. To not be confused or intimidated by hypocrisy, in other words.
"the media"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"the media"? (Score:2)
I certainly do--but then I feel the same way about Dan Rather.
Let's face it, somebody who is getting enough readership so that he is running advertisements is part of "the media," even if it is on the "small press" end of things.
but *very* small press (Score:2)
Hell, The Nation has orders of magnitude more readers than DailyKos.
Re:but *very* small press (Score:2)
I don't think it is solely attributable to novelty. I think that it is a combination of immediacy and the ability to link to other sources. This was really evident in the "Rathergate" affair, in which bloggers were able to display and debate the key features that demonstrated that the memos were forgeries. The whole argument played out and a clear conclusion emerged in a matter of a few days, while the major media continued
I'm Shocked! (Score:2, Insightful)
guy with the ink/camera/microphone/blog
gets to write whatever he pleases.... including
what will make him some $$?
That's the beauty of the first amendment.
Sounds good to me! (Score:3, Insightful)
Provided I'm the one being paid, of course...
Anybody who thinks weblogs, in general, convey useful information is an idiot; they're like newspaper columns with no editors.
Not from the horse's mouth. (Score:2)
Ok, here it goes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Kos and Jerome run MyDD. Endorses and is are VERY avid supporters of Dean.
Dean's campaign hires MyDD to do various technical consulting of various types.
Jerome, who starts to blog for Dean stops his own site. Everybody pretty much goes over to Kos' site, and Kos lets it well known that he does consulting for Dean. Nobody in the community (and DailyKos is a political version of Slashdot. It's a community site) cares.
Skip ahead a year and a half.
Zephyr Teachout (lead blogger for the old Dean campaign) is upset that the ethical people are taking all the money and bribe taking out of political blogging and writes a slash piece in the WSJ accusing Kos and Jerome of not being corrupt ENOUGH.
What Kos and Jerome did is basically equivilent to what Gabe and Tycho do over at PA, getting paid for various side projects, a lot of whom they endorse/give good reviews/whatever. Is there any problem with that?
Of course not.
Re:Ok, here it goes. (Score:2)
Re:Ok, here it goes. (Score:3, Interesting)
If you have any evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested in s
Re:Ok, here it goes. (Score:2)
Which is kind of weird because the message predated any money. That's what you're missing. What..you expected him to completly stop talking about the primary campaign? I mean geez...DailyKos was primary CENTRAL during the Democratic primary campaign.
In other words, if there was no payment, would there have been any different content? Nope. There wouldn't have been.
Re:Ok, here it goes. (Score:2)
Then why make the payment? Otherwise you've just proved the Dean campaign to be much stupider than even his best critics thought. $12,000 to buy what he already had?
Did Kos switch from supporting Clark to supporting Dean in the time before the payment?
but I don't get my news from Penny Arcade (Score:2)
Re:but I don't get my news from Penny Arcade (Score:2)
I understand what you're saying. That money for you would be an issue, and you wouldn't be able to maintain your objective opinion. And that's fine.
Actually, what PA does..I barely even look at the webcomics, is that it's a great op-ed for the gaming world. A fantastic one actually. And yeah, it's biased. But do I feel as though money comes into it? Not at all.
And it's the same with Kos
Whoa whoa whoa! (Score:3, Insightful)
So let's not blow this out of proportion folks. If they had concealed what they were doing, that would be an entirely different beast. They met the basics of journalistic integrity, revealing that they were in fact being paid for their work.
Read more about it here [salon.com].
is that the case? (Score:2)
Re:is that the case? (Score:2)
You see more than a few journalists being employed by the subject of their reporting, actually. Whenever a MSNBC analyst reports on Microsoft's latest business move, it is appropriate for them to note "MSNBC is part-owned by Microsoft." And generally they do.
"Both Sides are Equally Bad" Cartoon (Score:2)
IMHO disclosure should be law (Score:2)
This isn't intended to start a freedom of speach flame... want that? Don't bother replying. Pure opinion here...
preface
I was asked just today to provide links to a commercial website, who apparantly feels either my google pagerank is beneficial to them, or they feel I get enough traffic to help them. Did I do it? Absolutely not.
I get a few of these.
Why don't I?
I don't think it's ethical. I base my blog on myself. I consider it a reflection of me. Anything I post, I believe
Important distinction. (Score:5, Insightful)
The Bush administration used your money (assuming you're a USian) to pay off Armstrong Williams. Williams didn't disclose a thing.
This whole tempest in a teapot is an attempt by the right to blur the issue by creating some kind of he-said/she-said equivalency.
Don't fall for it.
Re:Important distinction. (Score:2)
Ever hear of "matching funds"? That too is your tax money.
The bloggers fully disclosed the payment.
Did they? Where did Kos say how much the payment was? And he went out of his way to claim it was "technical" and said it was "not policy or strategy" when in fact, it was not anything technical at all and was clearly all message and strategy. That's not a "full disclosure."
Re:Important distinction. (Score:2, Interesting)
Dean didn't accept matching funds. [tinyurl.com]
Uhhh... (Score:2)
Granted, it's not a huge deal, but I imagine liberals would be throwing a tizzyfit if it was Bill O'Reilly consulting the Republicans. I don't really see conservatives giving crap about two bloggers drumming up support for their favorite candidate, who they happened to also work for. The only pe
no different than MSM (Score:2)
Re:no different than MSM (Score:2)
Re:no different than MSM (Score:2)
It's the village green (Score:3, Insightful)
We're all back in the village green. Anybody can yammer.
So, we all have to figure out who's the village idiot and who's the sage. And who's yesterday's sage but now today's idiot.
We all have to think. Shocking, disappointing, I know.
Reputation matters. Those of you with good reputations, please don't pull a Pierre Salinger [cnn.com].
Remember, all your sources of info are biased, somehow. Some grossly, some negligibly. Find the bias, find the reputation, take with a grain of salt.
Just because some taxi driver, somebody you met in a laundromat, your lunatic {right,left}-wing officemate said it, you Read It On The Internet doesn't make it so. Even if it had cool graphics on the page.
Why should the blogsphere be any different? Why should anybody be surprised? Geez.
>:(
John.
There's something more interesting here... (Score:2, Insightful)
I've never liked Markos "screw them" Zuniga, but what you're all focusing on is a non-story. He disclosed to his readers that he was taking money; Williams, who made no disclosure, deserves whatever happens to him.
What interests me is the difference in what those involved thought they were doing:
Zuniga thought he was taking money to be a "consultant" and give advice.
The Dean campaign thought they were paying him to be a shill and say good things about them.
See the difference? I think b
Free Press (Score:2)
It is a bit hard to maintan credibillity when you don't notice the documentation you reproduced as from 1972 was likely the product of Microsoft Word.
WSJ slightly less partisan than al Hayyat (Score:2, Troll)
Does this shock anyone?
What the WSJ really says (Score:2)
michael:
"It's hard to believe that the WSJ is equating prominently disclosed campaign consulting with secret payments from the U.S. Government treasury to TV personalities in order to promote Republican policies, but they are."
The Wall Street Journal [wsj.com] Best of the Web [opinionjournal.com] column:
"The Dean campaign, unlike the Education Department, didn't spend tax dollars. But the bloggers who benefited from its largesse appear to be as compromised ethically as Williams."
I could find no statement in the Wall Stre
promimently displayed? not! (Score:2)
paraphrase) 'a bigger role in other campaigns' and that 'I
have none disclosure agreements so can't tell you who they
are'. Right ok. And we are to believe he didn't shill for
them or their issues? Please.
My promise of honesty to you. (Score:2)
Oh, and the Brobdingnagian Bards. Them too. But that's because one of the guys is one of my best friends, and I steal their songs for remixes... not because they pay me.
Re:Sources please? (Score:5, Informative)
USA Today nailing him on it. [usatoday.com]
Washington Post doing the same. [washingtonpost.com]
FCC investigation into Armstrong Williams payola. [bloomberg.com]
Seriously, this is not a conspiracy; it happened. You can argue whether (as USA Today states) he was contractually obligated to be favorable towards vouchers, but he definitely took money to run ads on them... and immediately afterward, wrote columns favorable of the Bush administration's position on the issue. This would be *incredibly* questionable, in and of itself. If he took the money with an additional obligation of running those columns, it is quite possibly illegal.
Re:None of those links prove anything. (Score:2)
As I said - you can argue whether the contract provision reported by USA Today is true, but there is NO QUESTION that he took money to run ads on a subject he then proceeded to write upon, in a manner extremely f
Re:None of those links prove anything. (Score:2)
Re:None of those links prove anything. (Score:2)
If its still a troll after the free one, its either time to flame (i.e. I'm bored) or time to do something productive (i.e. go heatset all the shirts I just finished screening).
Re:Sources please? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sources please? (Score:2)
Gee, capitalization making a difference, who knew?
But what if... (Score:2)
But what if your... well... you know... thingie... leans to the right?
Amen (Score:2)
Amen man, good to see some trut
Clever, but still nonsense. (Score:2, Insightful)
This guy knows that unlike many stifling, practically religious, communities, iconoclasm gets modded highly here, or he wouldn't have penned this screed (who reads zero-level AC's?).
Post the lamest, most obvious, and most unfunny jokes imaginable. They will be modded up "+5 Funn
Re:Manual for the Modern Slashdotter (Score:2)
It's a shame that you will be modded down into oblivion. Squelching dissent is another awful aspect of how Slashdot works here.
Re:Manual for the Modern Slashdotter (Score:2)
Re:Avians of Similar Plumage, and Pink Monkeys (Score:2)
Most of the Linux people I know are Libertarians -- not leftists at all.
Re:How could transparency possibly be enforced? (Score:2, Insightful)
For example, I have in my posession a
Re:Competition (Score:2)
All that having more blogs out there does is makes more places for various nutjobs to hang out.
because every source is biased (Score:2)
The key to finding value in those sources comes from being able to identify the bias and interpret around it.
For example
Re:Michael: (Score:2)
Re:Michael: (Score:2)
Re:Michael: (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong: I'm not offended from an ethics standpoint. I'm simply annoyed with michael, who seems to believe his own little predictable rants are deemed more important than everyone else's, and
Re:The word republican isn't in the article (Score:2)
A few people think free elections are worth more than human life. These people include the president, Benjamin Franklin, and me.
Re:The word republican isn't in the article (Score:2)
You mean like Canada in 1783?
Re:But hang on... (Score:2)
Re:You can't enforce transparancy (Score:2)
If that person brought out proof that Instapundit was being funded, then it be scrutinized, the response of Glenn would be measured, and some would believe and some wouldn't.
That has nothing to do with partisan, that's a rational reaction to the situation.
Re:outrageous (Score:3, Informative)
Furthermore, "reveal" deserved scare quotes around it in that sentence -- given that not only was it something that was public knowledge, but that it was something that the Wall Street Journal had, themselves, mentioned before in articles about both Markos and Jerome.
If I wrote a lead sentence of "