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Communications Businesses Technology

Verizon Central Office Heist Spoiled By 911 Outage 199

Qbans writes with a link the NYTimes story on a foiled robbery attempt at a Verizon Central Office in White Plains, New York, snipping "The plan seemed simple enough. The building had been cased and the burglars knew exactly what they wanted - advanced computer circuit panels that could be sold on the black market for hundreds of thousands of dollars." Qbans points out that this story parallels a previous story on how equipment was (successfully) stolen last May. Update: 11/27 22:01 GMT by T : Reader Dave C contributes a link to coverage at the registration-free JournalNews.com.
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Verizon Central Office Heist Spoiled By 911 Outage

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  • by fishwallop ( 792972 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:16PM (#10933047)
    someone is stealing my telephone equipment!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:17PM (#10933060)
    And they would have got away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling kids!
  • blackmarket? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by qwp ( 694253 )
    blackmarket == ebay??
  • Catch me once... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FiReaNGeL ( 312636 ) <.fireang3l. .at. .hotmail.com.> on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:19PM (#10933079) Homepage
    So they tried to steal the same exact stuff at the same exact location, twice? Catch me once, shame on you... catch me twice, shame on me! Glad they caught them...
    • better mess their database with a form-with-crap-filler [majcher.com] or use bugmenot.com [bugmenot.com]
    • Tip: Save time by hitting the return key instead of clicking on "search"

      Sorry, no information is available for the URL www.nytimes.com/2004/11/27/nyregion/27theft.html

      If the URL is valid, try visiting that web page by clicking on the following link: www.nytimes.com/2004/11/27/nyregion/27theft.html
      Find web pages that contain the term "www.nytimes.com/2004/11/27/nyregion/27theft.html"

      (Yeah, I didn't feel like checking my post either)
  • ARTICLE TEXT: (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:22PM (#10933094)
    The plan seemed simple enough. The building had been cased and the burglars knew exactly what they wanted - advanced computer circuit panels that could be sold on the black market for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    The night before Thanksgiving, about 8 p.m., they entered the Verizon building in White Plains undetected and set to work.

    But as the criminals removed the panels, they soon triggered problems across Westchester County. Most problematic, 911 systems across the region began to crash. By the time some 150 panels were removed, roughly 25,000 people had lost 911 service.

    At 9:51 p.m., the White Plains Police received a call alerting them to the fact that there might be a problem at the Verizon building. Still unaware that burglars were at work inside, a patrol car rolled up to the site, according to Inspector Daniel Jackson.

    "Literally, the two guys were walking out the door," Mr. Jackson said. They were carrying two large boxes when the officer shouted for them to stop. The men dropped the stolen boxes, fled on foot and were eventually run down by the officer and arrested, Mr. Jackson said.

    The two men were identified in a criminal complaint as Larry D. Davis, 43, of Brooklyn, and Gailican Phillips, 34 of Manhattan.

    They have been charged with conspiracy to commit interstate shipment of stolen property, a federal crime with a maximum sentence of five years in jail, according to the complaint.

    Mr. Jackson said that the burglary itself was not as disturbing as the widespread effect it had on the 911 system.

    The police are working with the F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security on the case. Terrorism has been ruled out as a possible motive.

    Although the burglary occurred in the Verizon building, the stolen equipment belonged to some half-dozen other telecommunications companies that use the premises to house part of their operations. No Verizon customers were affected, a company official said.

    Dan Diaz Zapata, a spokesman for Verizon, said the building had many levels of security - from video cameras to security badges to on-site guards - and that the company was cooperating with local and federal authorities. Mr. Zapata said that Verizon had redundancy capabilities built into its system that would have prevented a theft of their own equipment from having such a wide impact.

    Mr. Jackson said that there had been a theft at the building once before, in 2003, and the police had reason to believe one of the two men involved Wednesday also took part in that operation. He would not elaborate on other details in that case. However, much less was stolen then.

    According to the complaint filed in Southern District of New York, the circuit boards ranged in value from $5,000 to $70,000 each and, all told, were worth in excess of $1 million. The plan was to deliver them to an unnamed co-conspirator who, in turn, planned to sell them to an unnamed company in California, according to the complaint.

    "There apparently is a strong, robust black market for this stuff," said a federal law enforcement official, who insisted on anonymity for fear of saying something that would compromise the investigation.

    There have been two other similar burglaries in New York City and New Jersey in recent years, according to Mr. Jackson. Those thefts were much smaller in scale.

    National Infrastructure Coordination Center of the Department of Homeland Security is also working with local police because of concern that the 911 system could be relatively easily compromised.

    After arresting the two men and photographing the stolen circuit panels, the police returned them to the companies that owned them. Once reinstalled, the 911 problems ended, and by 7 a.m. the system was back to normal, Mr. Jackson said.

    Police said the panels that were stolen were each about the size of a legal pad and are used by telecommunications companies to transmit data and connect calls. There is an industry standard for the panels and they can easily be transferred from one computer to another.

    Potential buyers of the panels on the black market range from small telecommunications companies to overseas clients, the police said.
    • Run down: (Score:5, Funny)

      by reality-bytes ( 119275 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @05:32PM (#10933463) Homepage


      The men dropped the stolen boxes, fled on foot and were eventually run down by the officer and arrested, Mr. Jackson said.


      I know its an American saying but in (British) English, that would imply mowing them down with the patrol-car.

      I'd have to say 'Fair Play' to that ;)
    • Re:ARTICLE TEXT: (Score:5, Insightful)

      by legirons ( 809082 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @05:40PM (#10933511)
      "They have been charged with conspiracy to commit interstate shipment of stolen property"

      Otherwise known as "whatever's necessary to make it a federal issue"?
      • As opposed to the felony grand larceny and felony computer tampering charges they had already received?
        The fact that those charges were added later by the judge could mean a couple of things:
        1) They did the math and realized that there weren't anywhere near enough small startup telco's in NY to use all the parts
        2) More evidence was found showing that they had planned to sell it to a certain location, ie email, letters, whatever seized durting a search (that would have almost assuredly happened in a crime th
    • These guys were caught because of stupidity and greed.

      They were in the building, pulling cards that were in active use, for about TWO HOURS. According to the article they arrived around 8pm, and the police didn't get a report that there might be a problem at that building until 9:51. Sometime after that, the police car arrived at the building, where they caught the guys walking out.

      It makes me wonder about how much more successful an intelligent thief could be -- these guys made an earlier hit on the sa
  • by mikael ( 484 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:25PM (#10933110)
    For any telecommunications equipment used by the government and connected to the public telephone network, I would expect each component to have a network requestable serial number. That would quickly reduce the black market value for such components in a way similar to mobile phones [thesite.org]
    • rubbish. do you think third world countries care? the black market doesn't exist in US for such products but in africa, asia and some parts of europe.

    • by PornMaster ( 749461 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:28PM (#10933128) Homepage
      The entire SS7 switching infrastructure would have to be updated to support directly addressing individual boards. Not likely to happen.

      I'm still curious as to how they got past the guards, unless they had ID showing them to be from one of the telecoms colocating equipment there.
      • I don't think it takes much. I have heard so many stories, from reputable sources, of people just having Dell shirts on and saying they were here to remove some equipment for servicing, of course everyone who works there is more then happy to help. I've also seen equipment mysteriously disappear as if it sprouted legs of its own and walked out.

        Bottom line is that most 'secure' installations for networking/communications/IT equipment is secure in name only. Its just not all that hard to remove it.
      • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @06:33PM (#10933827)
        About 10 years ago I got a tour of the Tellus facility in Alberta, at that time Alberta Government Telephone. My uncle was one of the senior telcom engineers there so he arranged the whole thing. Security was fairly impressive going through the front, getting checked in and our visitor badges and everything. However, as we were walking around, he opened a door to the alley and noted often people would prop it open so they could duck out and back in.

        This i, unfortunately, often the case. Security is well intentioned, but isn't completely thought through and has holes in it. Also, you'd be amazed what social engineering and some confidence can get you. If you act like you are supposed to be somewhere, it's amazing how peopel will just assume you are.

        A couple years ago I was working for network operations on campus and we were upgrading the speed of building links, which involved a swap of the media converters. Most buildings we just go and get access to the room with our keys, since it's a dedicated room. However for the campus police, it's back in the 911 room with the other equipment. So when we went the staff member (I was a student) had his telcom ID and we both had university ID and driver licenses. The manager was by the phone if a verification call was needed.

        We walked into the lobby, and it looked to be quite a secure location. All the doors were locked, all the glass was bulletproof. We went over to the window for the 911 call centre and told them we were form telecom and needed to get at the network gear. They said "ok" and let us in, took us to the closet, let us in there, and left us alone with all the 911 gear (and our switch). No ID was checked.
    • Depends on who their customers are. If their customers are legitamate businesses, then yes it will have an effect, however the article does not elaborate on who they were planning to sell them to, just "an unnamed company in California". They never really explain what the "circuit boards" even do really, other than they are used for some type of telecommunications. Maybe the thieves customers weren't exactly a legal company to begin with, or maybe they were not planning on using them but planning on sel
    • Yes, boards generally have serial numbers and on all modern equipment (and even not-so-modern equipment of the carrier-class variety) it can be retrieved over the network management channels.

      ... by someone at the company using the stolen boards.

      No sane company allows outside access to their network management channels. So unless the serial numbers were kept on file by the victim (which isn't always the case, sometimes docs fall behind quite badly) and those serial numbers were published so publicly and
      • The manufacturer keeps the serial numbers. When I worked for Lucent installing equipment like this, all the boards had serial numbers.

        Anything purchased thru legit channels had the serial numbers recorded not only by the sales dept, but by the installing tech.

        Cards purchased thru E-Bay were most likely registered to someone else.

        There is a big market for older switching equipment components (ATM, Frame Relay, SS7, etc.) in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America. What is obsolete or close to ob
  • by frugle ( 769095 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:26PM (#10933120) Homepage
    roughly 25,000 people had lost 911 service.

    ...are there really that many calls for emergency assistance, or are they basing it on a people-per-exchange basis?

    and WHO do you call when 911 don't respond?

    • Ghostbusters!
    • by richie2000 ( 159732 ) <rickard.olsson@gmail.com> on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:35PM (#10933164) Homepage Journal
      WHO do you call when 911 don't respond?

      Ghostbusters!

    • losing service in telephone terms does not mean that they're all calling at once. Probably an estimate based on the effected exchanges.

      When 911 is doWn, you just call your local police station - they do have a phone there after all. There was life before 911 - young whipper snapper
      • When 911 is doWn, you just call your local police station - they do have a phone there after all.

        They may have a phone, but they often won't pick it up. In my city (New York City), very few precincts will answer their phones; they simply don't have the available manpower to answer repititive mundane questions. They will, however, respond to questions asked in person, but most people aren't willing to invest 10 or 15 minutes of their time to go out to the precinct.

        Serious emergencies are all dealt with t
        • I didn't say 911 wasn't important, but merely pointed out that there was another way, in a joking manner. You know that "whipper snapper" in my post? Kids these days, once upon a time we used 300 baud modems - and we liked it!

          "small town centric"? How about your NYC centric? I've lived in both small towns and cities w/o 311, in the slums, and out. Being a Navy brat, then finally having the Chief retiring can do that to you. If you want to tell them 911 is down, then there is another way. You ever try to
    • That's how many people lost service, not how many calls were lost.

      25 000 people would have been unable to call 911 had they needed to; the article doesn't seem to say if/how many actual calls were missed.
    • Local police stations have individual normal phone numbers, and some districts have 311 for nonemergency police. All they had to do was call the local station, have them get out there.
      • Which is almost impossible in Minneapolis. I needed to call the police for something (a lock being broken on my house when I was gone). It wasn't an emergency, so I didn't want to call 911. I finally found the number to the police dept, got transferred a bunch of times via an automated phone system, and the person I finally go ahold of after 15 mins told me to just call 911.

        I think the best thing to do if 911 went away would be to call the operator. They at least have some access to do funky things to
    • and WHO do you call when 911 don't respond?

      So very obvious. You call the operator. Now, the operator will do whatever is necessary to put you through, and at the same time, you've notified the local phone company that 911 service isn't working.
      • So very obvious. You call the operator. Now, the operator will do whatever is necessary to put you through, and at the same time, you've notified the local phone company that 911 service isn't working.

        I don't suppose you've tried to call the operator any time in the last 10 years or so... because if you had you would have realized that dialing 0 doesn't get you a person... It usually gets you a pre-recorded message that basically says "bugger off"... I suppose all of the operators were downsized years a
        • I don't suppose you've tried to call the operator any time in the last 10 years or so... because if you had you would have realized that dialing 0 doesn't get you a person...

          It hasn't been long since I last dialed the operator, and I still get a person. Where are you trying this exactly?
  • The old masters (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stimpleton ( 732392 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:31PM (#10933144)

    Interesting that someone wishes to steal this stuff.
    Doubly interesting that theres obviously a market for this equipment.
    Is it analgous to the theft of The Scream? Authorities must have a fair idea of the potential recipients from the get go. Be it international or not.
  • by wol ( 10606 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:34PM (#10933160)
    "Although the burglary occurred in the Verizon building, the stolen equipment belonged to some half-dozen other telecommunications companies that use the premises to house part of their operations. No Verizon customers were affected, a company official said."

    Does this mean that the telecommunications companies using the Verizon premises are not Verizon customers? Is that what it says on the rent check?

    • Yes ... according to current law telecom companies are required to open their circuits to competition. That's how DSL gets provided from organizations other than your local Baby Bell. The Bells hate that, of course, because they really don't see why they shouldn't have sole control of their lines. And I suppose that wouldn't be a problem if they didn't invariably abuse that control to the consumer's detriment. I live in an area "serviced" by SBC, arguably the worse Baby Bell in existence, and until Comca
  • by mc6809e ( 214243 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:49PM (#10933248)

    If someone died as a result of not having 911 services, these guys could be in even bigger trouble.

    • Hopefully not murder.

      You could then say that if someone in the office spilled a drink on the board, fried it knocking out 911, that they were now subject to murder charges.

      Of course, my counter argument would be that if 911 was so important, why didn't the government protect it better? Come on, putting it all in one office? Unmanned?
      • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @06:28PM (#10933799)
        The reason they could be hit with murder charges is that, if in the comission of a felony someone dies as a result, you are guilty of murder. So if you rob a store with guns, the police show up and shoot your partner, you are guilty of murder since your comission of the felony was the proximate cause of the death.

        Not all states have laws like that, but many do. Since they were comitting a felony, they could be charged.

        Now someone who spills coffee on the boards by accident isn't comitting a felony, they are making a mistake. The most they could be charged with is manslaghuter for gross neglience (since there is no situation where liquids should be anywhere near the equipment) however in all likelyhood they'd not be charged, just fired by the company and sued by the victim's family.
        • Why is it, then, that when a police officer murders someone, in the line of duty, and it turns out they shouldn't have (and perhaps shouldn't have even been raiding that building or whatever), they're not guilty of murder?
          • Already covered in the post.

            Now someone who spills coffee on the boards by accident isn't comitting a felony, they are making a mistake. The most they could be charged with is manslaghuter for gross neglience (since there is no situation where liquids should be anywhere near the equipment) however in all likelyhood they'd not be charged, just fired by the company and sued by the victim's family.

            If the cops accidentially raid the wrong building, it's a mistake, not a felony.
          • by Dun Malg ( 230075 )
            Why is it, then, that when a police officer murders someone, in the line of duty, and it turns out they shouldn't have (and perhaps shouldn't have even been raiding that building or whatever), they're not guilty of murder?

            You don't quite seem to understand the definition of "murder". Murder is the unlawful taking of a human life. Police are authorized to use deadly force if the situation warrants, therefore it isn't automatically "murder" just because someone died. If they kill someone in a situation wher

            • That's not the situation I'm thinking of. The particular situation I'm thinking of is when the police shot a man who was walking away from them, not threatening them. Walking, facing away, didn't turn around or anything. How is that not murder? (Someone videotaped it happening, but I can't find the video at the moment)
              • That's not the situation I'm thinking of. The particular situation I'm thinking of is when the police shot a man who was walking away from them, not threatening them. Walking, facing away, didn't turn around or anything. How is that not murder?

                I couldn't tell you. Without reading the IAD report I don't know the particular circumstances. I do know that police aren't required to let a dangerous felon wander away just because their back is turned and they're not running. They also don't have to wait until th

      • Think of it as the difference between arson on an abandoned warehouse catching the security guard, or the homeless man, versus leaving the stove on by accident. One is an accident, one is a crime. I hope a crime that causes additional harm means more severe charges.
  • dropped boards? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xOleanderx ( 794187 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @04:51PM (#10933256)
    "The men dropped the stolen boxes, fled on foot and were eventually run down by the officer and arrested, Mr. Jackson said." Wait... they had them in boxes and when the officer showed up they dropped them?? It doesnt mention any of them being damaged...
  • by yorkpaddy ( 830859 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @05:00PM (#10933300)
    Dan Diaz Zapata, a spokesman for Verizon, said the building had many levels of security - from video cameras to security badges to on-site guards -
    and a sign that says "hey steal the other TelCo's stuff, we left the door unlocked for you"
  • Links To NYT (Score:2, Insightful)

    by klausner ( 92204 )
    Why does /. even allow links to sites like the NY Times which require PITA registration? A moments search on Google or Google News almost always turns up unrestricted options. Try the NY Post [nypost.com] for this story.
    • Try the NY Post for this story.

      I wouldn't use the Post to wrap a fish. It's an incredibly lousy paper. Hell, even with all the bonehead things the NY Times has done lately, it's still a million times more credible than the Post. And what's the big deal about registering? Do it once, you don't have to give any information, it's not like afterwards the Times editors lurk out behind your house peering in windows.
      • OK, I just chose a source at random. Don't get offended. There are 120 [google.com] others. Take your pick.

        As for registration, can you spell P-R-I-N-C-I-P-A-L? There are enough other annoyances in life. Why put up with the avoidable ones?

    • Bug Me Not [bugmenot.com] should have stopped all this complaining about the NYT and other registrations. The firefox 1.0 plugin is exceptional. You Right click on the user/password field, chose "bug me not" and you are logged in.

      People who don't like having to register should REALLY like this, because it makes it less meaningful for sites to have these stupid registrations. So don't bitch -- use Bug Me Not and fight the system.

  • ho man... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Fishstick ( 150821 )
    Federal conspiracy charges were filed in White Plains yesterday against two men whose alleged attempt to steal 150 circuit boards from a Verizon building Wednesday night disrupted 911 emergency service across the county for about seven hours.

    oops - I'm sure they weren't interested in disrupting 911 service across state lines to make it a Federal "conspiracy" charge. Sounds like they will be made an example of and will likely end up in federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, 2004 @05:22PM (#10933406)
    "There apparently is a strong, robust black market for this stuff," said a federal law enforcement official, who insisted on anonymity for fear of saying something that would compromise the investigation.

    Maybe I'm confused here, but how does giving your name out compromise the investigation? I'm tired of all these federal officials who insist on being anonymous and hidden. Shouldn't LEO's be forthright and honest?
    • I'm pretty sure the official is not afraid that providing its name would compromise the investigation (unless the official in question operated undercover, which is not the impression I got). I'm pretty sure the official is afraid of letting its tonque slip at some point during the interview and did not want its name to be published if it did, thus getting into trouble with superiors. This way, if anything got said that shouldn't have, the AC has a chance at avoiding blame.
  • Most computer items of any price are for sale on ebay (even very expensive network switches and routers). What kind of cards were these and the one in NYC? I assume they are re-selling to other telcos. Wonder why you never see them on ebay.
  • Scary! (Score:4, Informative)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @07:50PM (#10934229) Homepage
    This article scares the hell out of me. Not because some dudes broke into a building and stole some stuff -- that's to be expected. It's because removing a few isolated pieces of equipment managed to paralyze the county's 911 system. Seriously -- do they actually run tests to see what happens if they pull the plug?

    The rule for redundancy is that you've gotta have the equipment in more than one place. The redundant equipment shouldn't have been in the same building, let alone the same town.

    A few years ago, an underground steam explosion knocked out the main phone and power stations for my area (both of which were stupidly placed smack next to each other). Because of the way the network was designed, phone service was not interrupted at all and the power went out for about 10 minutes. This was from an explosion which completely severed the connections to both buildings. THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD WORK.
    • Re:Scary! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @09:09PM (#10934579) Journal
      removing a few isolated pieces of equipment managed to paralyze the county's 911 system.

      Yes, removing 150 pieces of equipment.

      Break-in to a telco center and cut all the wires, you'll get the same effect.

      Hardly surprising.
      • >Break-in to a telco center and cut all the wires, you'll get the same effect.

        Thank God, they STOLE the stuff and proved they were true americans ... just slashing the wires would have gotten then terrorism charges.

      • Ever been in a central office? 150 pieces of equipment is indeed isolated. In my (fairly small town) central office there are probably half a million pieces of equipment. And yes, they leave the back door open sometimes.

        If you can, arrange a tour of your nearest central office. They're hard to get but it can be done. Start counting pieces of equipment. You'll probably lose count somewhere around 37,108 when the tour guide asks you what you're doing staring at the frame.

        • If you are stealing the same component from every different system that you can find, you're guaranteed to defeat all redundancy, and cause a problem.

          If a company has 150 mainframes, and you go around stealing 150 power supplies, well, there's bound to be service outages.
      • Re:Scary! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by moosesocks ( 264553 )
        Yes, but the point of redundancy is not to put the equipment in THE SAME FREAKING ROOM, let alone the same building or town.

        If something happened to that building such as a fire/flood/terrorism (God forbid), the entire county would be screwed.
    • Without knowing the details, I have mixed feelings. Technically by that argument, you'd need redundancy with the cables running into somebody's house, or into each street (however obscure). Otherwise their emergency services might be cut off if someone cut a phone line. It's more of an issue of whereabouts to draw the line on building in redundancy.

      On the more positive side, for instance, the entire country, state or city wasn't cut off --- 25,000 people were. I definitely agree that 25,000 people

  • by telemonster ( 605238 ) on Saturday November 27, 2004 @07:55PM (#10934252) Homepage
    I'd be willing to bet they were stealing line cards from CLEC coloc chassis, which would totally kill the phone/DSL service from the CLEC's clients. Instead of saynig "25,000 people lost phone service" I'm guessing they said "25,000 people lost access to 911, which meant they could have DIED!"

    Too bad there aren't more tech details.

    And I guess the people from NYT haven't tried to sell this type of equipment. Given the gluttony of .bombs, the market is fairly flooded with carrier gear. Unless it's zero day goods, the value on this crap drops like a rock.

    PS: Portmaster 4 for sale, contact me off list.

  • Apparently from the story, one of the criminals was probably involved in a previous heist at the same location. He was so greedy, he had to try and "double dip" and paid the biggest price for it. Now he's caught red handed--I'd like to see him weasel his way out of this.
    • I imagine the "biggest price" would be if the cops had gunned him down. Getting 3 meals a day and free cable for x years can't be too bad, assuming he can make someone else his bitch instead of the other way around.
  • Theser are almost always inside jobs by an employee or ex who knows exactly what it there and what is marketable. Silicon Valley has been plagued by these for decades, particularly in commodity hardware manufacturing. A stick of memory chips can go for several hundred dollars.
  • Terrorism has been ruled out as a possible motive.

    Please, someone tell me you haven't all been indoctrined into the Bush Family Groupthink that every single crime that goes on anywhere in the whole damn country has some sort of terrorist motive? The homeless guy stealing apples from the grocery store isn't a terrorist sleeper agent, the guy behind the counter that short-changes you in Wal-Mart is not an Islamic fundamentalist hell-bent on destroying the West, and two bungling jackasses stealing computer

We don't know one millionth of one percent about anything.

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