Microsoft Funded Study Cinches 10yr Deal 517
Genevish writes "According to an article in the Register, Microsoft and the Newham Council in London have signed an agreement making Microsoft the preferred vendor for the council, instead of the original hybrid MS / Open Source plan. The council was very careful in choosing Microsoft, having an independent study done and all.
The only problem is that the study was, you guessed it, not independent at all but funded by Microsoft. Their decision even had the journalists at the press conference laughing."
Dang... (Score:5, Funny)
umm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Dang... (Score:5, Funny)
Frothing at the mouth and convulsing is more likely. Good thing I'm so apathetic.
Re:Dang... (Score:5, Funny)
Coffee in through the nose is not good coffee.
Re:Dang... (Score:5, Funny)
Coffee in through the nose is not good coffee.
No, but it's an amazing away to maximize enjoyment of the aroma...
Re:Dang... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Dang... (Score:5, Funny)
How can MS keep a straight face when it says this? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not talking about home desktops which frankly they would be lying through their teeth if they actually tried to pull that one out saying they're cheaper. But I'm talking about large corporations with IT departments.
IT wouldn't be spending yearly cash on service contracts and the like with open source, wouldn't they instead just HIRE their support? Hire IT pros that KNOW how to program and configure and support and fix the open source servers/databases? You pay for the IT people anyway, why pay in addition to that for service contracts?
You have company X. They need a new server infrastructure. They hire the people that will build the system from the ground up with open source solutions. They don't buy any software, not even Redhat. They use open source, build the databases, the os, the web server etc etc. The only they they buy is the hardware to run it on.
After they build it, you keep them as your IT department to maintain everything. No service contracts...not even to Redhat or SUSE or anyone. Now, how is that more expensive than the MS solution?
I obviously am out of my league here and have no idea how any of this works, I'm just wondering. Can anyone set me straight here?
Begin it now. (Score:3, Insightful)
Until one is committed, there is hesitancy.
the chance to draw back,
always ineffectiveness concerning all acts of
initiative (and creation).
There is one elemental truth,
the ignornance of which kills countless ideas
and splendid plans---
that the moment one definitely commits oneself,
then Providence moves all.
All sorts of things occur to help one
that would never otherwise have occurred.
A whole stream of events issue from the decision,
raising in one's favor all
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:5, Insightful)
* A generic company's IT staff probably (maybe?) is not competent enough to support adequately a company-wide Open Source initiative.
* Said staff is not going to support an Open Source intiative that will put them out of a job.
* Company's generally like having third-party support contracts. That means it's someone else's fault, and they can sue said someone if they f*** up. At most, a company can only fire an individual employee if they make a config change that destroys a database, say.
* What happens if an employee can't figure it out? One of these support contractors will either: not take a contract, or double their rates, if they're expected to come in, figure out what someone else hacked up, and solve that problem. This increases the overall cost because you just hired admins at 80g+ and helpdesk at 50g+, and then you have to pay out for a support contract anyway.
The sad truth is there are so many mediocre admins/contractors/etc that get by with a "good enough" attitude, that it doesn't surprise me if some companys decide Win32 is cheaper.
In the same breath, if a company does it right, trains their staff (or pays for their training), and has foresight enough to see through a project like an Open Source conversion, then they will come out on top, IMO. In addition, they will be much more nimble, technology-wise, because of their more advanced and competent IT staff.
This is, of course, all pure speculation and opinion on my part, but this is /. so this is no surprise.
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:4, Informative)
AAAARGHH!!!! [angryflower.com]
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at all the bone-headed moves done by my own government in Puerto Rico. Buying laptops for all the public school teachers while paying them $13,000 a year. $40 million to MS for site licensing, MS's biggest customer in the Caribbean, yet if we were a US state, we'd rank considerably lower than Mississipi (like half). *shakes head* Buy stuff to be successful. Stupid.
I tell you, technology doesn't do shit, just like a hammer doesn't do shit. In the hands of a trained, educated carpenter though, they are a means to fabulous ends.
Open Source allows carpenters to freely train in their trade, exchange ideas, collaborate, and become masters of their profession, instead of glorified assemblers. Instead of assembling other people's mass producted widgets, you get to create wealth for your local culture, area, neighborhood whatever.
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the answer is most. It seems that the least tech-ignorant member of staff is often elevated to the status of admin after demonstrating the skills required to change the resolution on the desktop, or clicking the buttons on a pdc's dialog boxes without screwing it up (too much). I ad
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:3, Informative)
It is pretty easy to say that when you look at the total cost of ownership (TCO). For software, expecially on a network, the price of the software is maybe 1/3 of the total cost to use it. Note the difference in words: price vs. cost. Price is how much money is spent to buy something. Cost is how much money is spent to use it. Part of the cost is t
Re:Cost of Training? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did all of these employees go to training classes on MS Office?
Probably not.
So saying that switching to OOo always requires training is a bit of FUD.
Re:Cost of Training? (Score:5, Informative)
Just recently, I installed OOo on one of our computers at home. My wife works with Excel every day at work--a lot of crunching numbers, auditing, complex formulas. I turned her loose on the spreadsheet app and watched as she ran it through a test. She put in some sample data and then entered a formula to do a VLOOKUP on some of the data. This is a basic formula she uses every day at work. OOo has a VLOOKUP function, but it just barfed and reported an error for the value in that cell. We looked up the parameters for that function in Open Office, and it did have one more parameter to enter, but we filled in that extra value and tried the thing several different ways and couldn't get it to report anything other than an error.
Second story. A friend of ours had to use our computer to do some stuff with an Excel file (list of about 1,000 contacts--name, address, etc.) before merging into Publisher to print postcards to these people. He didn't need any formulas; just needed to sort the contacts--by zip code or by name or whatever. He ran the sort he wanted, and it seemed good, except as he was getting through the output, he found that it had barfed on even that. It had partially sorted the list, but a lot of it was still random and there were parts of the list that hadn't been sorted at all, so he had to go through manually sorting a bunch of them.
So, from personal experience, if you are just going to look at static data in a spreadsheet and not do anything to it, OOo might be fine, but to...I don't know...actually USE it, OOo just doesn't work. Not something you can just teach people in a one-day training course. So how are companies supposed to switch to all open source applications when some won't even do the job needed? Maybe they could go with Linux and Crossover Office in this case, but keep a sense of reality people.
I did get to use the word processing app, and that worked fine--didn't run into any weird problems there, but the spreadsheet app was garbage.
I'm not trolling or flaming on this. I like open source and really wanted Open Office to work. I'll keep using open source programs where they are effective, but it has to pass that functional test.
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:5, Insightful)
Where MS does have an arguement is small business. Many small business owners cannot afford to hire a competent IT staff. It is about total value, you're right about that, but don't be so short term, look down the road, past that initial change over for a large corp, what's your cost analysis then?
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:3, Informative)
Farming out support to an organisation that has varied skillsets with people in dif
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:5, Interesting)
Hell, a little Pre-press shop I was in had an IT staff. Why pay for the staff AND a service contract on top of that?
So yeah, 80 grand a year isn't that far off and you would still save money.
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:5, Funny)
What's wrong with monkeys? I like monkeys.
The pet store was selling them for five cents a piece. I thought that odd since they were normally a couple thousand each. I decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth. I bought 200. I like monkeys.
I took my 200 monkeys home. I have a big car. I let one drive. His name was Sigmund. He was retarded. In fact, none of them were really bright. They kept punching themselves in their genitals. I laughed. Then they punched my genitals. I stopped laughing.
I herded them into my room. They didn't adapt very well to their new environment. They would screech, hurl themselves off of the couch at high speeds and slam into the wall. Although humorous at first, the spectacle lost its novelty halfway into its third hour.
Two hours later I found out why all the monkeys were so inexpensive: they all died. No apparent reason. They all just sorta' dropped dead. Kinda' like when you buy a goldfish and it dies five hours later. Damn cheap monkeys.
I didn't know what to do. There were 200 dead monkeys lying all over my room, on the bed, in the dresser, hanging from my bookcase. It looked like I had 200 throw rugs.
I tried to flush one down the toilet. It didn't work. It got stuck. Then I had one dead, wet monkey and 199 dead, dry monkeys.
I tried pretending that they were just stuffed animals. That worked for a while, that is until they began to decompose. It started to smell real bad.
I had to pee but there was a dead monkey in the toilet and I didn't want to call the plumber. I was embarrassed.
I tried to slow down the decomposition by freezing them. Unfortunately there was only enough room for two monkeys at a time so I had to change them every 30 seconds. I also had to eat all the food in the freezer so it didn't all go bad.
I tried burning them. Little did I know my bed was flammable. I had to extinguish the fire.
Then I had one dead, wet monkey in my toilet, two dead, frozen monkeys in my freezer, and 197 dead, charred monkeys in a pile on my bed. The odor wasn't improving.
I became agitated at my inability to dispose of my monkeys and to use the bathroom. I severely beat one of my monkeys. I felt better.
I tried throwing them way but the garbage man said that the city wasn't allowed to dispose of charred primates. I told him that I had a wet one. He couldn't take that one either. I didn't bother asking about the frozen ones.
I finally arrived at a solution. I gave them out as Christmas gifts. My friends didn't know quite what to say. They pretended that they like them but I could tell they were lying. Ingrates. So I punched them in the genitals.
If you're going to post someone else's joke... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:How can MS keep a straight face when it says th (Score:3, Informative)
An anon coward post:
An allegory is a story with two meanings, a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning.
In this case, I'm obviously playing off of the parent post's use of the term "retarded monkeys". The deeper message is you get what you pay for: nickle monkeys die, and in this case the so-called "cheaper" software sucks.
Re: Dang... (Score:3, Funny)
I read it on the Register on Monday. But I have to say, I first heard about the Reg from all the stories /. recycles from them.
Groklaw, a day late (Score:4, Informative)
I think the shark Slashdot jumped a while ago must have died and left its rotting, stinking carcass somewhere....
A bit sad... (Score:5, Funny)
the real study is... (Score:5, Insightful)
i have no vested interest in getting linux or microsoft onto desktops or servers, but all i've seen is microsoft spreading propaganda and other FUD about linux and open source.
remind me again, how you save money going ms office instead of open office?
every government has corruption and greased palms, this is just another example.
Re:the real study is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course that's based on the incorrect assumption that most users actually USE many of the features of MS Office. Most typical office drones could use Wordpad and never know the difference (between MS Office), except that Wordpad wouldn't do wacky automatic shit to them that they'd have to keep manually undoing.
Even the MS argument, valid as it may be for their twisted scenario, would break down after one upgrade cycle. OO license savings + retraining cost might theoretically be > than MS Office license cost, but come next upgrade cycle, there will no longer be a retraining issue. So then it will simply be a question of Free versus $$.
It all reminds me of the illogical (but hopeful) arguments a child will give for why they must have something, or why they must not do something. It's somewhat comical when it's a child, but it's really sad and embarassing when it's an "adult" corporation. Something about it reminds me of politics too...
Re:the real study is... (Score:4, Funny)
Of course that's based on the incorrect assumption that most users actually USE many of the features of MS Office.
But what about Clippy? Surely people can't do without Clippy!
Re:the real study is... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:the real study is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you miss the part of the article where they mentioned the 100 custom office-based applications that they would need to port?
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Interesting)
Whatever. Some ambitious intern wrote some VBA macros. I'm sure he'll be happy to port them to javascript or whatever OOo uses now for automation.
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was like you and didn't realize people use all that built in crap until I saw a business dev guy creating a excel spreedsheet. He's memorized every hotkey, he doesn't even touch the mouse. I asked whe
Re:the real study is... (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, one of the few occassions that OpenOffice did crash on me, it recovered gracefully on the next startup. MS Office seems to have gotten better in 2k/XP with that, but 97 was pretty bad (which was what I replaced with OO). Also, I love the fact that OO is 100 mb download, versus the 3-4 CDs that MS Office takes.
The only thing I'm missing is an Access-replacement - a nice lightweight database for doing stuff like address books, that doesn't require a full MySQL server, but is painful to do in a spreadsheet.
Re:the real study is... (Score:5, Interesting)
So I guess that's probably my issue with all of this. Each "study" takes the black and white approach. You do all Linux, or you do all MS... never seems to be much about stuff like running MS software off of a postgres database and the like.
And I don't know if Munich will have a lower TCO or not. But they'll probably give less money to MS and spend more money on their own staff, so that's a win in it's own right.
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Insightful)
No one knows what the long term cost will be, because not
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Organizations don't get the option of using something for free with NO VENDOR SUPPORT rather than paying a fee and getting a fully supported product.
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Assuming that Microsoft won't use every method it can to prevent this happening. The last thing they would want is any real data. Which would tend to show that TCO studies are academic exercised. Even if those carrying out the study do make an attempt to carry out a total cost of ownership study.
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Interesting)
I use OpenOffice.org on my Debian Linux (Sarge) box at home, and find it quite capable at replacing Microsoft Office. Hell, I even run OOo on my Mac (OS X 10.3) off of the Linux box through the network (X does have some good qualities after all!), and the speed is still more than acceptable for me.
By the way, my Debian Linux box is a 1.7GHz Celeron with 512 MB of RAM.
I also run OOo on my Slackware 10.0 notebook.
Re:the real study is... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ever been to a press conference? (Score:5, Insightful)
dear god keep me from busting up here... (Score:5, Interesting)
As if I weren't chuckling a little throughout the article, I almost wet my pants on that line. Sure Microsoft is serious about addressing the security concerns, but there's JUST SO DAMN MANY!!! Finding all those security holes would be a computing task akin to solving RC-72 [distributed.net] only difference is, in 300,000 days RC-72 will be solved and MS will probably STILL have security holes in whatever OS is running then.
Re:dear god keep me from busting up here... (Score:3, Insightful)
Just like everyone remember Microsoft about 2-3 years back saying they are now (then) becoming serious about security and it'll show very soon. Those 2-3 years have passed and what have changed? Not much.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:dear god keep me from busting up here... (Score:4, Insightful)
Read the EULA. You can't sue them. If it makes your computer burst into flame instead of word processing you *still* can't sue them. If you can prove that they *intentionally* coded it that way, you still can't sue them except *maybe* on false advertising but even *then* the EULA has something to say on the matter and it sure as hell isn't in your favor.
Just because the MS name is stamped on it does *not* mean you can sue them when something goes wrong. Users, companies and governments have fallen for this crock. You can't sue MS any more than you can sue "Open Source".
Ultimately you have *no* guarantee that it works or that it will be fixed in a timely manner. The guarantee that Open Source gives you is that if it comes down to fixing it yourself or hiring someone to fix it, you're free to do so. With MS your *only* option is to hope and wait for your issue to become a priority for MS and there are no competitive bids to fix your problem.
Re:dear god keep me from busting up here... (Score:5, Insightful)
-
Administrators! (Score:5, Funny)
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, administrate.
I think that sums it up...
Simon.
For a Brief Shining Moment... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:For a Brief Shining Moment... (Score:3, Funny)
Here they are (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.newham.gov.uk [newham.gov.uk]
Josh
Contact and Meeting Minutes from Newham (Score:5, Interesting)
Isn't this illegal? If this is classed as consultation I am sure that there is somethign to stop conflicts of interest.
The guy responsible is Contact: Richard Steel, Head of ICT Tel 020 8430 4301 richard.steel@newham.gov.uk.
richard.steel@newham.gov.uk You can petition here sensibly.
Details of the settlement from the minutes of the council: http://moderngov.newham.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.As
From the Newham Council website (where you can http://www.newham.gov.uk/content/Environment/aban
(what happened to this stoy on
Re:Contact and Meeting Minutes from Newham (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Contact and Meeting Minutes from Newham (Score:3, Informative)
This is too good.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Open source vendors are currently experiencing more vulnerabilities and receiving more security advisories than Microsoft
Let me get this straight.... because OSS publishes and fixes their bugs, rather than MS' security through obsecurity (don't publish security advisories), OSS gets docked more points??!
Re:This is too good.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Take the numbers out of context and they really lose all of their meaning. Hence, the study comes to its conclusions with a lot more spin than relevant fact.
Re:This is too good.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Some OSS vendors do this too, but not to the same extent.
Riight... (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows is too complex to fix in in it's current incarnation. With COM/DCOM, ActiveX, band-aids piled on top of band-aids instead of fixing things right the first time, it's amazing that XP even WORKS let alone is as "secure" as it currently is (It's the most robust and secure OS from MS to date and it's still got the holes of a seive...).
Sure security is their top priority- but after the fact is the worst possible time to be worrying about that sort of thing. It's just NOT going to happen the way you're claiming- it's a sysiphean task to begin with and adding the problems of not breaking everything that wasn't designed with security in mind just makes it ten times worse.
This happens every day (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is the business planning? (Score:5, Interesting)
Where is the business sense? Very serious about addressing security concerns? You don't select a product to run your production apps based on someone being very serious. When it comes to security concerns, you select a product based on the product's track record with security.
I don't care if you like MS products or not; the statement above is not gounds for any business decision. When will people learn to evaluate products correctly. If MS wins on security, then say they win on security. If they don't, don't say they are very serious about getting there. Tell them they haven't done a good enough job yet and they need to prove it first.
There is no business planning in IT purchasing (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is the business sense? Very serious about addressing security concerns? You don't select a product to run your production apps based on someone being very serious. When it comes to security concerns, you select a product based on the product's track record with security.
CIOs unfortunately have no business sense, when it comes to evaluating when to use open vs. closed source.
The problem is that a purchasing process that (presumably) makes sense when you are buying widgets or consumables breaks down when applied to software. If there is no vendor to make a pitch for it, (or if the vendors that do exist aren't huge money vacuums, beacuse they sell expertise instead of binaries) then it doesn't get considered properly.
High level managers understand contracts, quantities, maintenance contracts. They don't understand software. But they make the decisions.
The council never intended to go OSS (Score:5, Interesting)
They've set the new template for Microsoft negotiations. Of course, if they actually cared about the community they supposedly represent, they'd have actually followed through with the initial suggestion. But that's asking way too much.
Re:The council never intended to go OSS (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds to me like two villains each presented their best shot, and Newham decided which one to go with.
The original consultants were brought in ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The Microsoft-funded analysts on the other hand found any use of non-Microsoft software would be both insecure and expensive. They even suggested IE as the browser of choice "because Microsoft is very serious about addressing security concerns". In a world where "Internet Explorer" and security are intrinsically oppositional terms, that is clearly villainous behavior.
Mod 'em down (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft was laughing too... (Score:4, Funny)
Competitive Pressure (Score:5, Insightful)
Poor Microsoft. They've never really been exposed to competitve pressures before.
The 3 lies for the current millenium (Score:5, Funny)
2) Damned Lies
3) Microsoft Funded TCO studies
Cheaper and More Secure??? (Score:3)
Re:Cheaper and More Secure??? (Score:3, Interesting)
My wife works for Expedia (which is a huge Windows shop) and she always comments that their machines running IIS constantly crash
Why am I not surprised? (Score:3, Interesting)
You know, the funny thing is that if they had gone with Linux (RH, Suse/Novell, etc) they'd get a new, updated OS every 2 to 3 years if they wanted it. With the 10 year MS deal, they'll get Longhorn (maybe), but nothing else most likely. So at the end of the deal, they'll be like all those NT4 users were a few months back. Sad...
Re:Why am I not surprised? (Score:4, Interesting)
So if you were being sarcastic... yes, Linux users *can* get updates every day. And that *is* good for TCO since you can get most of the patches for vulnerabilities almost immediately, which means you are less susceptible to break-ins by tools from script kiddies, which means less downtime, which speaks well for TCO. Further, most Linux updates patch a single piece or app and unless you're dealing with the kernel aren't likely to render a system unbootable... if anything, only the service itself fails. Compare this to the current average of 2 in 10 MS systems with XP SP2 not coming back online. Again, this speaks wonders for Linux TCO.
Of course, if you weren't being sarcastic, but actually meant what you said to be taken at face value, then again, yes, that is awesome for TCO for all the reasons listed above and more.
After doing IT work for 10+ years and working with Linux, Solaris, MS, and Netware, I'm a firm believer that the upfront cost of software, licenses, and installation isn't really related to TCO. The proof of TCO comes over the 3 year period of use after the initial OS installation when you factor in patches, updates, reboots, downtimes, viruses, break-ins, etc.
10 years is a long time ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft must really be begining to feel the heat if they are starting to push for 10 year contracts. I'll concede that a sense of permanance is good in IT (and especially local authority), but 10 years (in any industry) is a very, very, very long time to be betting on one horse.
Just look back at 1994 and see what has changed sense - and what hasn't changed. All the world has changed, except for Microsoft.
I just hope that Newham Council survuve this contract. Repeat after me: Microsoft doesn't scale. There is (believe it or not) a reason why it appears cheaper than all that nice Peoplesoft/Oracle/IBM - its not as good.
OSS as a tool to lower MS prices (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:OSS as a tool to lower MS prices (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone posted in some other forum on this very issue that this is also great for another reason: It proves to everyone looking that Linux is a serious contended worth considering - why else would Microsoft see a need to fund an "independent" study AND massively drop their prices to prevent a move?
So see this as free marketing: Microsoft is telling the world that Linux is good enough for large government deployments.
Taxpayer Dollars (Score:3, Interesting)
If I were a British taxpayer (yes I know the term is redundant), I'd have to think that either:
- Newham knowingly allowed a sales pitch to be used as if it were logical unbiased analysis (in which case they're idiots)
- they didn't know (in which case they're idiots)
- they did know but didn't care (in which case they're not good stewards of the public's money)
- they found out and but didn't demand a greater discount from MS (in which case they're not good stewards of the public's money).
Anyway, I hope other public entities take the proper opportunity to be more aggressive with Microsoft in negotiating lower prices given the new competitive landscape afforded by open source solutions.Security (Score:5, Interesting)
Aren't alot of the security concerns because of IE. That had me laughing. Firefox 5 secuirty issues vs IE 1459879683 security issues and still counting for IE.
A factor... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but from my experience a mediocre UN*X/Linux administrator draws a higher salary than a "expert" Windows administrator. But on the other hand a good UN*X/Linux administrator can do "more", in less time, than the MS Administrators I know...
Re:A factor... (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem I always see with Windows organizations is that they have to make a million compromises to make certain legacy apps work, usually negating most features of their 'advanced' OS. You see places using FAT32 on their
article summary incorrect (Score:5, Interesting)
No one claimed it was independent. There were actually two studies: one by an avowed open source advocacy consulting firm (which was hoping to score a consulting gig charging Newham for 'coverting' to open source) and one by CapGemini, which was indeed openly commissioned by Microsoft.
I'd suggest both studies might have had an ax to grind, making the reality a lot more mundane than the tin-foil-hat-wearing slashdotters would want to acknowledge.
10 year deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
But everyone laughs at Newham anyway! (Score:3, Interesting)
Newham is traditionally one of the UK's 'loony left' local govts -- marxist/socialists who have little knowledge of or interest in government, but a lot of greed and a lot of the kind of ideals and emotions people normally grow out of at age 15. Honestly, if you haven't witnessed UK politics, you really can't imagine it.
It's interesting how the ones with the biggest fanciest and even most seriously-held ideals are often the most corrupt in their actual manner of business... that goes for a lot more than just UK borough councils.
Just a misunderstanding... (Score:3, Funny)
£5m/10 years OR £5m/year for 10 years? (Score:3, Insightful)
If that's only £5m over the 10 year span, then whoopity freaking do. Then they probably only have a handful of file servers and maybe 300 workstations to support.
This smells like a "the sky is falling" bs hype story to me.
If it's £5m/year for 10 years, then it really is a big deal and I'd be very confused by the decision as well. (Well, not really. Graft graft graft)
TCO TCSMOW (Score:5, Insightful)
Newham is one of the poorest boroughs in the UK (Score:5, Informative)
I also work 50% of the time in Newham.
It is mainly crumbling Victorian buildings with streets barely wide enoungh to drive the essential service vehicles (ambulances, refuse trucks, etc) let alone cars, busses and delivery vehicles.
It is also one of the key boroughs in Londons 2012 Olympic bid.
Now rather than spending money on IT why aren't they investing further in the things that the residents need. Repairing the schools, hospitals, policing.
You have to assume that this funding is from central government as the local council taxes wouldn't provide for this and would hopefully see a revolt amongst voters come the local elections (if they ever found out about it). Given it is such a poor and deprived area an OSS it project for the region would have been a superb idea possibly even run as a charity and gaining tax free status.
Hopefully the government audit office will investigate deal as smacks of improprietry.
We all know how these things work! (Score:4, Insightful)
Won de fucking ful (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry but this is out of order. Microsoft is no longer just hurting the software market, it's helping old ladies freeze to death or become seriously ill.
If you're going to bullshit and scam someone go after the stupid, not the people who will have to pass this onto the old ladies who can't help but be in this situation..
I'm going to be writing to the council and to my local council and just point out how pissed off this makes me.
Guess we need a new title for Bill "I kill old ladies" Gates now huh..
If you live in the UK then...... (Score:3, Insightful)
You may feel like saying that anyone who signs a 10 year contract in as volatile a sector as IT is an arsehole and I would whole heartedly agree but there are many other reasons why this arrangement stinks, e.g. depriving the public sector of a valuable study that could provide real long term savings, providing an open standards based infrastructure that could be integrated with any future system specced by the EU etc. so go for it guys and girls, get creative!
I will be starting tonight and unless the brain death victim that signed on the line can prove otherwise it'll be harder to support these sort of actions in future contract negotiations.
Re:politics (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:politics (Score:3, Insightful)
Still why waste the money on such a transparently corrupt "study". Just make the decision in a smokey backroom and move on.
They have to at least go through the motions of doing it legitimately so that the bovine masses don't realise they're being led to the slaughterhouse.
Re:politics (Score:3, Interesting)
One has to wonder if they're actually being serious here.
Re:politics (Score:5, Insightful)
It's like a car salesman saying "I know this model has a bad safety rating but we are very concerned about safety. So go ahead and use it and in some unspecified amount of time we'll make the seat belts work."
Open Source needs groups that can help studies. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd love to try to sell Novell/Mono solutions as well as MSFT/.NET solutions; but the sales staff gets so much more support from Microsoft in making their pitch, it'd be really really really hard to get anywhere going against them.
Is there su
Re:politics (Score:5, Interesting)
You'd be surprised. My Dad told me a story of when he was a kid - Dr Pepper was a relatively new drink at the time, and he and his friends tried it and didn't like it - but his friends kept buying it!
My Dad: "Why do you keep buying that stuff? You said you didn't like it!"
His friends: "Yeah, but you might win a free bottle!"
Basically, his friends kept buying stuff they didn't like because they might win more of it.
Amazing. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not necessarily... (Score:3, Interesting)
Thats not entirely true. That's the big problem with drug studies funded by these companies. When the results dont align, they bury the study.
I have heard the major organizations are trying to get drug companies to announce when said studies begin, that way everyone will be looking for the results, and it will be harder to bury unfavorable ones.
Heard it on a story on NPR.org about 6 months ago.
Re:Why... (Score:3, Informative)
Not to worry! I've saved the original here [slashdot.org]. As for the original headline, I think it was just too fractured and unclear: "MS Funded Study Deciding Factor in 10yr Deal" makes it sound like the study was deciding something.
I also saved the original 11 comments, most of which were asking "where are all the comments?" I suspect a glitch in the system, but I'll leave tha
Re:Bwahahaha (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether that's as far ahead as dumping Microsoft and going with open souce is an entirely different matter. It'll sure be interesting to revisit this in a few years time and compare and contrast Newham with Munich though...
Re:Bwahahaha (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Speechless. (Score:5, Insightful)
When they combine this with a few cosmetic changes in Windows, they have maintained an amazingly high success rate at making people less concerned about Windows security. As you can see from this article concerns about Windows security still seem to have a fairly low frequency among key decision makers. And this is, after all, their main concern about Windows security.