Israel's Finance Ministry To Distribute OpenOffice 521
dudeman2 writes "Israel National News reports that The Israel Finance Ministry said Sunday it will begin distributing Open Office for free as of next week. The ministry said that it would begin to distribute thousands of Open Office CD-ROMs at public computer centers and later on at community centers throughout the country, 'in a bid to reduce the technological gap between the rich and poor in Israel'."
Fantastic! (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to the start a flamewar on the subject of Arab-Israeli relations, but just imagine the impact if the U.S. gov't did this! I'd start getting .sxc as attachments instead of .doc! Then, the economically challenged could buy a cheap PC, or get one used from a church or something, and immediately make it more useful!
Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Fantastic! (Score:2)
Don't wait for the gubmint. Take care of it yourself. [moore4yates.org]
Hey, just an idea that is taking off. We closed the digital divide by 6 computers this last weekend, and have about 80 more in the wings...and some private funding upwards of 5 figures to help smooth out the process. And this is soley from word of mouth and friends, part time over a couple of months.
And yes, we p
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Informative)
SXC? (Score:2)
I already distribute
Oh well. The price you pay for being enlig
Re:SXC? (Score:2)
How about a program that adds an entry to the right-click context menu that can convert SXW files into DOC and convert DOC into SXW?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Informative)
But the Israeli's have always been ahead of the curve technologically. I could be wrong, but wearen't they evaluating openoffice as part of a plan to migrate to Linux?
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Interesting)
that's the impression I got;
my experience is OO for Win32 is an equivalent install to any other Win32 software. Additionaly
Try this experiment with SXC and SXW (Score:5, Informative)
Now open it.
It opens as a Writer document just fine.
All OOo documents use the same XML structure. Based on some information in the META-INF directory, OOo is able to deduce that the top level of the document should open in Writer.
What do I mean by all this META-INF nonsense? Try this experiment: take any OOo document and rename it's extension (from SXC, SXW, etc.) to ZIP. Now unzip it. You get a Content.xml file, a META-INF folder, and other goodies if your document contained embedded pictures, etc.
Re:Try this experiment with SXC and SXW (Score:2)
Re:Fantastic! (Score:5, Informative)
Or state that the file is in OpenOffice format. Mailing documents to people without telling them what to use is somewhat rude, even if it is a common document. There are plenty of people out there who don't have ANY Office software, and/or even know what a ZIP file is.
Get in the habit. A simple "Here's your document is OpenOffice format" goes a lot farther than "Here's your document."
OpenOffice Authority (Score:2)
I always thought that the name OpenOffice was a bit too generic, but now when I saw your comment above, it actually adds some Authority to the application.
Someone who does not know what it is, will not just dismiss it as it sounds like "Hej this is legitimate and I better find out what it is so as not to look stupid" kind of thing.
Second. Once the penetration of OOo is above 10%-15%
Bush's chances... (Score:2)
Free software doesn't have to mean 'broken economy'.
Re:Bush's chances... (Score:2)
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think either are acceptable and all need to move to another line of work, and/or adapt. Just because something lines our pocketbooks doesn't mean we should promote or endorse it.
Just offhand (as my son and I were watching C.S. Lewis' _Voyage of the Dawn Treder_ last night), I believe slavery was a big money maker, and illicit drugs still are. Of course, many ways of handling the last, but
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is a better scenario...
A) Where everyone has in the country pays $100 for software, generating a $30,000,000,000/yr industry.
B) Everyone in the country gets $100 worth of software for free, destroying a $30,000,000,000 industry.
Is it just the change from one to another that is the problem? Or is there some hidden danger from everyone on the planet being born with 'rights' to software that used to cost $1,000 a seat?
I mean, sheesh, that's like $6,000,000,000,000 a
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Insightful)
So I'm curous how such things would look to an economist.
Re:Fantastic! (Score:3, Insightful)
Short term, maybe. Long term, it's absolutely a good thing. Each consumer who would otherwise have paid $100 for the software instead uses it on her next preferred alternative, which she otherwise wouldn't have been able to obtain, so clearly she's better off.
Re:Fantastic! (Score:2)
economics is about supply and demand; software has a nearly infinite supply, shipping a copy doesn't deplete the source of the copies. therefore software is essentialy valueless.
commercial software companies maintain an artifical scarity to stay in bussiness.
long answer yes packaging, distribution, programmers labeor has value, but less than you'd imagine.
The MS war chest is still part of the economy. (Score:2)
Actually, I remember a
A similar thing happens when regular people put money into a bank. The bank doesn't put the money into a small box with your name on it. It lends it out to others as loans, an
Distributed by CDR Copies (Score:5, Funny)
And in a similar move City Officials in Hong Kong announced plans to widely distribute illegal CD-R cracked copies of Micrsoft Office 2003.
oh yeah, wait, that's already being done without a government sanction.
Re:Distributed by CDR Copies (Score:3, Interesting)
PLA (Score:2)
Re:Distributed by CDR Copies (Score:2)
Is free cheap enough? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is free cheap enough? (Score:5, Funny)
Two questions. (Score:4, Insightful)
If there is a Hebrew localization of Office, what is to stop a zillion people from pirating it? (like everywhere else)
Re:Two questions. (Score:5, Informative)
This is where the Office monopoly started to look sour, it looked like MS was not going to do a Hebrew Mac Office "just because. Buy Windows." This demonstrated the effects of monopoly lock in and led to the search for alternatives.
Re:Two questions. (Score:2)
Mellel (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Two questions. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Two questions. (Score:2)
Re:Two questions. (Score:2, Informative)
Which is a lie, since Israeli copyright law dos not hold for private, none-profit use.
If you want protection from that, you have to sell your program as a product, not as a "creation".
But then you can't sell it without a decent warenty
So It appears that the ad strategy has backfired.
Re:Two questions. (Score:2)
"what is to stop a zillion people from pirating it?"
Nothing does! Office is warezed all around the country.
To tell you the truth, the reason why their started distributing OO and OSS is because the following story:
The treasury department had a couple of badly licensed machines, M$ then got pissed and made unreasonable claim
yep (Score:3, Interesting)
several characters didn't get displayed properly on my english edition PC and i went back & forth w/ the translation service and the file cre
Installation Costs? (Score:5, Interesting)
The ministry is aware that despite the substantial savings accrued by not buying Microsoft licenses, there would also be considerable installment costs.
I have installed Open Office, Star Office, Word Perfect Office and Microsoft Office for various clients over the past two years. Maybe I'm missing something about a large scale deploy, but they all seem about the same for installation. I can even use SMS to drop the package automatically. Any idea what they are talking about?
Re:Installation Costs? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, he may be thinking that someone has to go to each desktop rather than letting the users install.
All of that is just guessing and I have not used Open Office yet.
Re:Installation Costs? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Installation Costs? (Score:2)
Re:Installation Costs? (Score:5, Informative)
When we moved our administration/secretarial staff onto OpenOffice it took about half an hour per worker to get them familiar with the basic differences. It also degraded productivity significantly for a couple of days as each worker got used to the different ways of doing things.
Many of these more experienced users also used some Macros and links to Access databases which entailed some time and effort to work around.The process was quicker for workers with less experience with MS Office, but then those users were much less productive when it comes to word-processing etc. so it was difficult to tell if they were having any additional problems with OpenOffice.
Our move entailed a half an hours workplace training, which meant half an hours of the trainers time and half an hour of the admin worker's time, plus an unquantified loss of efficiency for a couple of days.
On our salary scales it would come to a minimum cost of 10 pounds per worker, although with loss of productivity it could easily be 50 pounds depending on how slow the worker was to adapt. If you scale these kinds of costs up for thousands of users then you have a significant issue.
We made the move in order to stop using unauthorised copies, so it was cheaper than going legit by buying the correct MS Licenses, but if the Isreali Government already has the correct Licenses then there may be minimal short term savings, indeed there is probably a significant short term cost to be justified.
Re:Installation Costs? (Score:2)
Re:Installation Costs? (Score:3, Funny)
You're forgetting... (Score:4, Informative)
The Scots got there first...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34593.html [theregister.co.uk]
But You're forgetting... (Score:2)
The technological gap is a wealth gap (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The technological gap is a wealth gap (Score:2)
Once you have free gasoline, when you do decide to buy a car you'll have to pay less..
Re:The technological gap is a wealth gap (Score:3, Interesting)
Right now, MS Windows + Office costs almost as much as computer does. Since an OS and office suite is pretty much required for a computer to be usefull, this is the same as giving them a $300 dollar discount on the computer, which lowers the barrier for entry significantly. In a few years, a computer will not be an economic burden for anyone living in a first world country.
$500 Decent Computer
$200 Decent Monitor
$200 MS Windows XP Home Editi
Re:The technological gap is a wealth gap (Score:2)
Actually, it's worse: gasoline at least has resale value.
Consider The Source (Score:5, Interesting)
This is most definitely a good thing.
Negotiation tactic (Score:2, Informative)
Sounds to me like Isreal is just trying to force Microsoft into giving them a price break on Office.
Misleading name? (Score:5, Informative)
More details here [haaretz.com]
It's an odd source for tech news.
Re:Misleading name? (Score:2)
Did Arutz Sheva even TRY to get legal permission to broadcast?
Re:Misleading name? (Score:2)
I beg to differ, but you strike me as someone on whom words will be wasted. You could correct the impression, of course, but tossing insults around is easier and more fun, isn't it?
Re:Misleading name? (Score:2)
You seem to be spouting quite a bit of unbased propoganda yourself.
Re:Misleading name? (Score:3, Insightful)
To present just one data point, opinion polls consistently show that the Israeli population overwhelmingly supports the formation of a Palestinian state (around a 60% majority), an
Re:Israeli government is left-wing (Score:2)
Just to get back on topic..... (Score:3, Insightful)
First, there are still compatibility issues. Although OpenOffice is a great office suite as is it still has problems converting from other formats. Therefore, even though it is free, government agencies that MUST access historical files in the original form do incur further expense in making an accurate file conversion.
Second, when you have a government agency that requires certain forms to be filled out electronically you have to make sure that the people filling out those forms have access to the programs to do this. This problem is exacerbated by the first concern previously mentioned.
Israel seems to have thought this through. That's why they're giving the disks away and also why they're biting the bullet and paying for properly converting the files (part of the installation process).
If OS software is going to ever really make any imprint in the government or any other institution we're going to have to be honest. OS may be cheap, but nothings truly free.
Re:Just to get back on topic..... (Score:2, Insightful)
The focus of the article should not be "Israel has done something" but that "some place has chosen OpenOffice over Microsoft Office".
For example, in the "UK approves 5.8Ghz for broadband", I think the majority would have considered people to be trolling if there were posts about the UK going to war in Iraq, looking for WMDs, etc.
While the stuff may have been sensible (just like pro-/anti-Israel posts), it would still be trolling. Similarly, posting about a highly
Ironically OT (Score:2)
There are those who wish for an end to the Israel-Palestine conflict who also believe that the current policy of the Israeli government is folly.
I'm sure there are, in fact, those of Jewish descent or faith who believe this.
Criticism of a government is nowhere close to hatred of a nation. These two are too often directly linked.
Issues (Score:2)
If the decision is carried out, the government will save millions of shekels a year in licenses, but could face much higher costs in other areas.
I'm largely technology agnostic, but I think a large chunk of the savings would be a one-term investment. For example, the need to train and familiarize people with Linux and the setting up of support centers would need to be taken care of. Also, the need to establish a solid base of Linux usage, complete with folks for Linux administration a
Re:Issues (Score:2)
Re:Issues (Score:2)
Open Office suite includes all the functions supplied by Microsoft Office - a word processing program, a spreadsheet program, and a presentation manager similar to PowerPoint. The programs can be downloaded for free at www.openoffice.co.il. The programs are for use on the Linux operating system, which is a free alternative to the Windows operating system.
Hence, my comment on Linux usage
Re:Issues (Score:2)
Threat or Real? (Score:4, Interesting)
If they actually distribute the CDs, is there a difference?
I consider this a followup on this story at Linux Today [linuxtoday.com] about their threat to use Linux instead of MS-Windows.
As such, we are definitely seeing the economics of competition and choice re-enter the marketplace, and no matter how you look at it, this is a GOOD THING.
Not just for Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
OpenOffice is a cross-platform suite. It's not just for Linux. I use the Windows version all the time.
Free software for the win32 platform is (I think) an important front of the F/OSS movement. Most people are unwilling to take the plunge straight into Linux. Using free software on win32 is a way to wade in and test the waters before jumping in. The win32 port of The GIMP was the first thing that got me really excited about free software, and I have since migrated to more free and open source applications and operating systems. For those of you running windows who would like to check out some free software, follow the links below:
Re:Not just for Linux (Score:2)
Oh, ack, just as I was double-checking my facts, I see that GNUWin II updated to OOo 1.1.0 today (Dec/29th), but still, my point is valid if this article was posted yesterday or a new version of OOo came out tomorrow.
I also recommend for Win32 users my own list of [L]GPL [roysdon.net] apps that I
Re:Not just for Linux (Score:2)
Re:And how does this relate to Linux? (Score:2)
Greetings,
Re:And how does this relate to Linux? (Score:2)
(that's what the source is there for)
No. My phone runs Symbian; good luck porting OO to it, source or not. Making something run on any given OS is not the main reason for making something open source; it's not even a particularly compelling one, usually. (More of a nice to have, than something that's actually important, unless you happen to run an obscure OS - but by definition that's not the norm)
Re:My experience as a consultant for the Israelis (Score:5, Funny)
Every word is a lie (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Stop the PC crap already! (Score:2, Interesting)
Because Arabs, Muslims, and the rest of the world didn't give a shit when Palestine was brutally occupied by Jordan and Egypt (holding the West Bank and Gaza Strip respectively).
People didn't complain until the occupation was done by Jews.
Same reason why nobody complains about Turkey's occupation of Cyprus or Syria's occupation of Lebanon. Muslims as the occupiers are acceptable in the UN
Re:Stop the PC crap already! (Score:2)
Dude, where in the USA do you live?
I often see pro-Palestinian student groups holding activities on campus, and nobody calls them anti-Semitic.
Every week someone writes pro-Palestinian and/or anti-Israeli letters to the editor in the New York Times, Boston Globe, as well as the student papers at my university, etc. These authors are never labelled anti-Semitic by a
You say this as if you prefer ms software (Score:2, Insightful)
the question is what does israel want? free software or good software. Do you want microsoft software instead but don't want it because it is too expensive? or do you don't want it because it doesnt meet your requirements? Also how does ms being a monopoly affect your decision since you easily switched to another software without suffering any effects from
Mac OS X 10.3 supports Hebrew (Score:2, Informative)
Re:My experience as a consultant for the Israelis (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:My experience as a consultant for the Israelis (Score:2)
Hardly. About 80% of Israeli citizens are Jews. Approximately 20% are Israeli born native Hebrew speakers (CIA Factbook) [cia.gov]. The rest are imigrants from the US, Europe, Africa and Asia. Of course anyone who wants to do business there needs to be able to write documents in Hebrew.
BTW, if you factor in Palestinians in Israeli occupied territory who do not hold Israeli passports, then the Jewish majority drops to about 53%.
Re:Priorities... (Score:3, Insightful)
Because God knows that if you have troubles with your neighbors you should Immediately cease any attempt at doing silly little things like bettering your information infrastructure or freeing up valuble resources that were previously going to a monopoly that was selling you software that you couldn't use properly.
Re:Priorities... (Score:2)
Re:Priorities... (Score:2)
Re:Priorities... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Correcting false historic claims. (Score:3, Insightful)
Saddam's army attacked US troops, *not* peaceke
Re:You are talking ignorant (Score:2)
you'll just say we planted them.
It's just as well that we don't find them. I don't think they'll grow well in the middle of the desert anyhow.
Bottom Line... (Score:3, Insightful)
Amongst the people in charge there are no innocents, but among the poor everyday commoner who has no beef with anybody, it's a different story. As is always the case in situations like these - guess who suffers more?
Less than full force... What 'force'? (Score:2)
"One other thing seperates us..."
Us? Oh, I'm sorry I was talking about terrorists here. Is that you? So what you're saying is that you are with 'them'?
There is NO explanation for attacks like WTC that is acceptable. Attacks like these do nothing but hurt the cause of your 'people' - if that's what we can call those who would rain fire and death upon thousands.
I always hear the same rhetoric from your side about how you
Re:Ok, I'm trolled. Mod me down if you will... (Score:2)
So bin Laden's objective was to cripple our command and control so that he could then engage the United States in warfare? No. He wanted to kill as many Americans as possible, period. By no stretch of the imagination was the WTC a military target, and even the Pentagon was chosen not for its military but its symbolic value.
The supposed reason we invaded Afghanistan was because Bin Lad
Re:Less than full force... What 'force'? (Score:2)
It's ok to have that bias - but don't try and convince everyone that you are somehow neutral.
Re:The Palestinians keep preventing this (Score:2, Informative)
There is no Israel-Palestinian conflict, it's just the media-friendly face to the same old Arab-Israeli conflict. Arabs refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist, and Israel refuses to cease to exist, a rather simple equation.
And yes, Israel does have the right to claim the moral high g
Re:the violations (Score:4, Insightful)
Numbers like these lead to more donations to Palestine some of which buys more weapons. When Israel does its the same thing - more money to buy weapons. They don't lead to any solutions, only finger pointing, name-calling and more bloodshed.
You know what angers me most? It's my own part in it. The majority of funding for this - both sides of this - comes from the USA. Until a few years ago I contributed to both sides in my charitable giving, and even worse, for a long time I did not take the time to understand the various points of view, and see my own part in it. So yes, I have blood on my hands as well. I often wonder what would happen if the money just stopped flowing.
Before I get off my soapbox, can anyone tell me how much money Israel has spent caring for those Palestinians injured in their various attacks on Palestine? How about telling me how much money Palestine has spent caring for those injured in Israel by suicide Palestinian bombers?
And we are surprised this keeps going on?
Re:the violations (Score:2, Insightful)
For example, Israeli hospitals such as Hadassah, are known for taking in everybody regardless of religion or background, inclu
Hardly Nazis (Score:2)
That view was part of a drive for global conquest and an attempt to build the ultimate society. By contrast, Israel has a MINISCULE little piece of land in the desert (created in a large part to house those Jews that all the other countries so graciously kicked out) surrounded by millions of people who despise them, and it (Israel) wants little more than to live in peace. The "occu
Re: (Score:2)
Re:How does this help the poor? (Score:4, Insightful)
OpenOffice is not a "rudimentary" word processor and spreadsheet. The "rudimentary" stuff you mention is intentionally inadequate for a lot of people.
Can someone say 'I don't need MS Office so take that off my bill." I think we have already tried and failed to get MS to refund licensing costs.
It's much easier to get a PC without paying for Office than to get a PC without paying for Windows.
Is giving away copies of OOo going to reduce the cost of buying a computer so that it is affordable to everyone?
Well, it sure makes a big difference. You can buy a PC for less than the price of MS Office these days. So eliminating MS Office from the package halves the price. I'd say that makes a computer affordable to a lot more people, wouldn't you?
Re:How does this help the poor? (Score:5, Interesting)
As you say, there are lots of people out there with all sorts of software loaded on their machines. But much of it is illegal, so there are hidden costs. People lose respect for copyright laws. The laws themselves become more draconian, in order to crack down on widespread piracy. New players like OO.o are shut out of the market because there is an entire segment of the population where "free as in beer" confers no competitive advantage.
In short, widespread piracy distorts copyright law and locks out competition. Despite the problems with copyright law, we do need it. If a "free as in legal" product can be had that has 90% of the functionality of MS Office, then it is irresponsible to use "closing the digital divide" as an excuse for encouraging piracy.
Especially if half of the remaining 10% is Clippy.
Re:There is such a thing? (Score:2)
Re:GPL (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Fake generosity (Score:2)
How many of the 'poor' have broadband? How much would it cost those that don't to download it (if they even have an Internet connection). How many of them would even know where to look for it?
Re:Now if only ooffice could master... (Score:2)
That sounds pretty rough. You don't mention it's a known bug, so it's a short step to assume you have not searched for and filed a bug report. Too bad... because it sounds like