DirectX 9 Finally Out 227
T-Kir writes "Microsoft has finally released DirectX 9... although we'll have to wait until the games that fully exploit it are released, at least those with high end cards (aka Radeon 9700+) will be able to unlock more of the advanced features. Now all we have to wait for is OpenGL 2.0!"
Old card support? (Score:1)
btw 1st post.
Re:Old card support? (Score:3, Interesting)
You got an expensive doorstop there.
I couldn't get Tombraider Chronicles to run on my Voodoo 3, so I don't think it is very likely you are going to find Direct X 9 support from anywhere. OK you might get something to run, but you can be certain Lara hasn't tested it.
However, if you could afford one of the cutting edge 3dfx cards when they were new you can certainly afford a replacement nvidia board of the same vintage, they have them at frys for $50. OK so they won't run as fast as the latest GForce but neither would the Voodoo.
Incidentally, I discovered that the chronic unreliability problem of my '98 machine went away as soon as I swapped out the voodoo for a GForce...
Re:Old card support? (Score:2)
Re:Old card support? (Score:5, Informative)
So, assuming that there aren't any bugs in the new version of DX, upgrading isn't harmful. And no, the Voodoo 3, 4, and 5 aren't going to support many of the new features in hardware. But that doesn't mean you can't install and play DX9 games -- it just means they'd run like ass.
Re:Old card support? (Score:5, Funny)
That sounds like one of those "In Soviet Russia..." jokes.
Re:Old card support? (Score:4, Informative)
So if you want to upgrade to DX 9 I'd say hit up Voodoo Files first. By that token though, I don't think DX 9 will go any faster for you and you in all likelihood won't be able to run any of the "new" features, but it's better than nothing. Might help put off that upgrade for a little while.
I'd love to know how people are making these new drivers, though.
Re:Old card support? (Score:2)
It saved my ass last time DX corrupted my system.
Re:Old card support? (Score:2)
Well in Soviet Russia, Direct X supports the cards.
(I have an impending sense of being modded down for another tired Soviet Union joke, but i couldn't resist)
Re:Old card support? (Score:4, Funny)
Does it support cdrs?
(for those who read slashdot daily... yes, I did indeed rip off that lame attempt from humor from a post a day or two ago)
=)
Re:Old card support? (Score:2)
Hmm... well, I knew that, but I guess some people might not... Thanks for clarifying!
Re:Old card support? (Score:2)
Also, the demos could simply refuse to run on the HEL. Dunno... haven't checked.
Re:Old card support? (Score:2)
-dk
Re: (Score:1)
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Re:radeon AIW 7500 (Score:5, Informative)
You need a card that takes full advantage of DirectX 9.0; the ATI Radeon 9500/9500Pro (just released) and Radeon 9700/9700 Pro (which has been around for a couple of months) will fully take advantage of DirectX 9.0, especially if you install ATI's CATALYST 3.0 display driver that works with Windows Me, Windows 2000 and Windows XP.
Unfortunately, nVidia's GeForce4 Ti4xxx series chipsets won't take advantage of DirectX 9.0 features; that will have to wait for the GeForce FX that will ship in the first quarter of 2003.
ATI and naming conventions (Score:3, Informative)
Although I can't be bothered to search for the link (it was on Anandtech or Toms Hardware), but apparently the ATI cards incorporate the DirectX version in their names.. hence the 9xxx cards were designed with DirectX 9.x in mind (hardware manufacturers have had the spec for months), and the Radeon 8xxx series was designed with DirectX 8.x... etc.
nVidia on the other hand started messing things up with the MX's, Ti's and Pure versions (let alone the FX, what next? FX2 or FX Part Deux?)... let alone any correlation to new or existing graphics technologies... i.e. they're just there to confuse Joe Public into thinking a GeForce 4 MX is better than a GeForce 3 etc.
Re:radeon AIW 7500 (Score:2)
I believe the problem is that the 7500 doesn't use the Radeon chipset, rather it's a Rage 128 that's been relabeled (that's my understanding -- I could easily be mistaken).
So I finally broke down and got the ti4600, and am extremely happy with it (I run two monitors, so replacing two Voodoo3's with one new card was pretty neat). Of course now my CPU seems just that much slower, not to mention I now have almost as much video RAM as system RAM...
Wow, two releases in one day (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow, two releases in one day (Score:5, Funny)
Spyware, modified EULAs et al (Score:3, Insightful)
Are there any bombs in the EULA? Or the latest version of Magic Lantern?
EULA- can't "Accept" (Score:5, Funny)
"Accept" is greyed out! While it may be true that a sane person might sometimes query accepting Microsoft's terms, it does seem a bit rich that you can't download the patch even if you do. Also the license includes Javascript and HTML as text. I wonder if this is due to a hypothetical previous patch turning stuff off for safety? Can I be bothered tracking it down at this time of year, when there is such wonderful televi... hmm.
Re:EULA- can't "Accept" (Score:3, Informative)
Just look at where the form submits to and right your own basic form that will do the same thing, their site doesn't check referrer strings for submitting forms
Re:EULA- can't "Accept" (Score:3, Informative)
Some of them require that you read the whole thing too (i.e. page down to the bottom).
Re:EULA- can't "Accept" (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Spyware, modified EULAs et al (Score:2, Informative)
As to spyware, it's not exactly like any software house has to be complicit to get it on your system if you use the Internet and download programs. Read here [securityfocus.com] for details.
Re:Spyware, modified EULAs et al (Score:2)
Unless you encase your computer room in conductive, charged, chickenwire a'la Faraday.
Re:Spyware, modified EULAs et al (Score:2)
Properly tuned and filtered signals from photomultipliers can now reproduce what is on your CRT merely by catching a ray of light emitted from your room.
Time to either move underground, and/or line your walls and windows with aluminum foil =)
Optical Time-Domain Eavesdropping Risks of CRT Displays [cam.ac.uk]
This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the reason why Windows and DirectX will always have a huge advantage over every independent implementation, be it MesaGL or something else. Programmers can be sure that MS will implement every new interesting feature of coming graphics hardware quickly, so that they can make use of it. Therefore, DirectX is the obvious choice.
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:5, Informative)
Hmm... The major Hardware manufacturors (and software developers) are members of the OpenGL ARB :
http://www.opengl.org/developers/about/arb.html
The OpenGL Architecture Review Board (ARB), an independent consortium formed in 1992, governs the OpenGL specification. Composed of many of the industry's leading graphics vendors, the ARB defines conformance tests and approves new OpenGL features and extensions. As of June 2002, voting members of the ARB include 3Dlabs, Apple, ATI, Dell Computer, Evans & Sutherland, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, Matrox, NVIDIA, Microsoft, SGI, Sun. Other companies and organizations are encouraged to join the ARB as non-voting participants by signing the ARB Participant Undertaking (PDF, Word format, Postscript format), so they are covered by participation and disclosure terms similar to the ARB member agreement signed by voting Members. Prospective participants should talk with the OpenGL ARB Secretary (email to arb-secretary 'at' sgi.com) to discuss their reasons for joining and their projected level of committment to the group, and to find out how to submit the Participant Undertaking. Participants may apply for ARB membership when new slots are opened up. A partial list of participants includes Alt.software, Crytek GmbH, Discreet, Empire Interactive, Ensemble Studios, Epic Games, GLSetup, Id Software, Imagination Technologies (PowerVR), Intelligraphics, Micron, NEC, Obsession Development, Quantum3D, RAD Game Tools, Raven Software, S3/Diamond Multimedia, SiS, Spinor GmbH, Tungsten Graphics, University of Central Florida, Verant Interactive, and Xi Graphics.
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2)
Maybe we can find a country where a developer can legally ignore the NDA he signed.
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2)
Says who? When did this rule get invented?
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand... (Score:2)
Really, that's the issue, here. Who's in the driver's seat. If you're *just* DirectX, then Microsoft is in the driver's seat, and you're maybe in the passenger's seat or back seat, but maybe you're back in the trunk or the trailer. Right now ATI and nVidia get to ride in the car with the driver, and they have some say about the hardware features that DirectX expresses.
Playing nicely with OpenGL and Open Source gives graphics makers a chance to differentiate their product. Maybe it's an extension, not OpenGL base, but at least OpenGL has the extension mechanism, and you're not petitioning Microsoft to grant your feature. Open source is not even a bad move, for some niche products, since many of those run on Unix/Linux, anyway.
Of course a graphics maker must play ball with Microsoft these days. But there are good business reasons to also keep a finger in the Open Source corner, too.
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2, Insightful)
Really dan? Show me the "something else". Mesa is practically the OpenGL standard on Linux/BSD and it would take any group many years to create something with all the capabilities of Mesa. I'm not aware of any other Open Source alternatives, and some quick googling doesn't show up anything. I gather that even the recent DRI framework added to Xfree86/Linux used Mesa as a part of its OpenGL rendering.
Sorry dan, but this and the "page on sourceforge" comments are just FUD. You have a point about the situation with hardware manufaturers, but you may be surprised at how organized a lot of Open Source projects are.
Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2, Insightful)
and
It's the standard on RedHat, which is pretty damn mainstream for anyone running Linux.
Where is the big difference? As a hardware maker I still wouldn't care.
Re: (Score:2)
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Re:This is the reason for Windows's advantage (Score:2)
Therefore, DirectX is the obvious choice."
ooooh, Shiny! I agree!
ATI (Score:5, Informative)
Re:ATI (Score:2)
Re:ATI (Score:2)
Re:ATI (Score:2)
It means you probably can play with clock settings, more monitor frequency settings, and more manual settings. Good stuffs in general.
I always choose non-WHQL-certified drivers because almost all the time they have more features.
Warning (Score:2, Informative)
After installing the ATI drivers the system restarts...here it hangs. Be careful while doing this...there is some problem with DirectX and ATI Radeon drivers.
If you do have a Radeon 9700... (Score:4, Informative)
More information about Animusic... (Score:2)
New things in DX9 (Score:5, Informative)
It has a language very close to Cg but that is integrated with VS.NET, meaning you can debug it just like C code. Here's a newsgroup thread [google.com] where MS says they are working to keep it close to Cg, but it won't be 100% compatible.
Managed support
If you're programming in C#, Managed C++, or any other managed language, you can now use DirectX 9 directly.
Links
Converting to DirectX 9 [microsoft.com]
DX9 client stand-alone download [microsoft.com]
DX9 SDK download [microsoft.com]
Re:New things in DX9 (Score:2)
Network Setup already bogged down... (Score:5, Informative)
Here [microsoft.com] is a direct link to the redistributable setup file (i.e. the
I'm getting about 100KBps right now. The file is a tad over 30MB. My DL is currently at 99%, so I suppose this is safe to post now
Knunov
Re:Network Setup already bogged down... (Score:2)
Mang they've got big pipes outbound of Redmond.
Re:Network Setup already bogged down... (Score:2)
Is Direct X really better? (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Bad match. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:3, Informative)
opengl, on the other hand, is geared for professional applications especially 3d. look at the pro graphic cards like firegl and quadro, they are supporting opengl. and most pro apps like maya, softimage, and lightwave require opengl and do not support the regular consumer video cards even though it may be faster and supports directx.
so i don't think that directx and opengl are closely matched. they are made for different applications and each is doing very well in their respective fields.
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2)
Yup. DirectX can't handle quads.. only triangles. DirectX can't handle NURBs (although I think that was one if the things DX9 is supposed to remedy). Quads and NURBs are the reasons professional 3d packages use OGL instead of DirectX.
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2)
Don't be a munchkin (Score:2)
And do you say that DirectX sucks because "Direct3D only does 3D"? No. You use a bunch of libraries of varying quality because MS has marketed them under a single name ("DirectX")? I suppose if you use OpenGL, you cannot use OpenAL?
Hell, I can fix that right now. I name the combination of SDL, OpenGL, OpenAL, SDL_ttf, SDLSprite and SDL_image "HyperX". Voila! By your criteria, now HyperX is better, because it does more!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2, Informative)
Comparing Direct3D and OpenGL (which is probably what you want to do): Direct3D is by far much more advanced, supporting more functions + features that OpenGL's out of date API doesn't. Programming-wise, I have no idea how they compare.
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2)
OpenGL is by far much more advanced, suporting more platforms + processors that DirectX's out of date API doesen't.
Call me when Direct3D comes out for somthing other than a x86 pc.
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2)
Re:Is Direct X really better? (Score:2)
In OpenGL games, you have to support OpenGL extensions to get anything that isn't directly supported by the OpenGL spec - which, at this point, is quite a lot. In order to do that, you have to go through the entire list of available extensions, check to see which ones you want, check to see which you have, enable the features that require the extensions you have, and disable the features that require extensions you don't. And if two manufacturers (ATI and NVidia) implement the same thing two different ways, you have to support both extensions to get anything depending on that to work.
As far as programming goes, DirectX used to be horrible, but it is now a lot better, easier to use, and faster to develop, in and of itself. Add in the complexity above, and, well, it's pretty obvious who's winning.
Don't get me wrong, I wish OpenGL would come out on top, but at the moment, DirectX just rocks my boxers, and that's all there is to it.
--Dan
Important for Multiplayer/LAN gamers (Score:5, Informative)
Due to enhancements in the way DirectPlay functions, it is strongly recommended that all users who want to join or host multiplayer games upgrade to DirectX 9.0. A user with earlier versions of DirectX may have trouble joining or hosting games, or my see a significant performance reduction when playing with users who have 9.0 installed.
Re:Important for Multiplayer/LAN gamers (Score:2)
exploit? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:exploit? (Score:2)
ROFL. Thanks for the laugh! :)
Not terribly impressed (Score:4, Insightful)
1) there are DX9 games available
2) a DX9 compat. card can be had without forking over a majority of my month's paycheck
Re:Not terribly impressed (Score:2)
Yea and by that time, you'll have one and want a card that is DX 11 or DX 12 compliant that won't cost a month's paycheck.
Re:Not terribly impressed (Score:2)
Re:Not terribly impressed (Score:2)
1. Microsoft's Asheron's Call 2 will be the first game to use DirectX 9.0 features. There are a number of upcoming games that will very likely use DirectX 9.0; I wouldn't be surprised that we see a patch for Neverwinter Nights to include DX9 support and EverQuest 2 will also include DX9 support.
2. The only reasonably-priced card that will support DX9 is are the cards from ATI OEM's that use the Radeon 9500 moniker; ATI's own Radeon 9500 Pro and Radeon 9700 Pro cards will support DX9 if you install the ATI CATALYST 3.0 display driver for Windows Me, Windows 2000 and Windows XP. I think that nVidia will have GeForce FX variants with full DX9 supports from low-cost to top-end models by the late Spring 2003.
Re:Not terribly impressed (Score:2)
dx versus opengl (Score:2, Insightful)
What about 7th Legion? (Score:2)
Considerable understatment (Score:2, Interesting)
Bacteria screensaver?!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Honey-- I told you not to turn off the antivirus autochecker!!
All kidding aside, I downloaded the demos and screensavers (If you upgraded from the DX9 Beta you have to reinstall all the demos), and I for one am astounded! I NEVER use screensavers at home, but will now... with the lights off, and some Pink Floyd...
I wish ATI will release an "aquarium" themed screensaver or demo... something with jellyfish would be awesome! I mean, just replace the bacteria, right?
License Changes? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not intended to start a flame war, I'm just curious.. as the last update of media player we weren't able to install, due to the 'added' bits, as they violated some of our privacy polices.. the license latest service pack for Win2000 is still being evaluated.
In the end, at the rate they are going we may have to go OSS for these reasons alone. ( which is fine by me )
exploit? (Score:5, Funny)
Exploit is an interesting choice of words when used to describe any aspect of Windows...
Perhaps CmdrTaco is hard at word on the DX9 version of CodeRed...
Sure, you might get Rooted, but at least the defacing will look purty.
Is this how MS will forcefeed DRM? (Score:2, Interesting)
Had to uninstall it (Score:2, Informative)
Works good (Score:2, Interesting)
Unreal is definately smoother... No doubt in my mind.
So it works good for me... seems they cleaned up the code or something.
Having a 56K Modem Shouldn't Have to Hurt (Score:2, Informative)
If the download is still a bit daunting head to here [icarusindie.com] and request the DirectX 9 SDK be included on a Content CD which costs only $2 per 650MB plus shipping which is typically less than $2 within the US.
Ben
OpenGL (Score:2, Funny)
DirectX 9 Problems (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:DirectX 9 Problems (Score:2)
2) If you'd read the other posts, you'll notice that BOTH/ALL computers in a networked game need DX9 in order for it to function properly on a network.
Its amazing the crap that gets modded here, especially up to a 4.
DRM? (Score:2)
So We Should Hear About the First Exploit When? (Score:2, Funny)
Gun Metal Demo (Score:2)
Strange, ATI 9700 is the only DX9 card out. Also ATI's Demos and Screen savers will run on any DX9 card. Seems NVIDIA is up to the tricks again.
Bad enough, games come out with "Made to be played on Nvidia" or some other crap.
You really have to wonder. (Score:2)
What happens when I try to run a DOS VGA game? A DOS CGA game? A DX 1 game? Not much...
Microsoft says they've tried to keep things compatible, but I've yet to see Windows DX games which work after multiple DX major version upgrades (3-5+) without some patching. Just another reason to console game
Re:You really have to wonder. (Score:2)
I wouldn't worry about DX games stopping to function as long as they were written correctly.
Death to "rich" (Score:2)
DirectX supports "rich audio". What is THAT?
Re: (Score:2)
Here's why it's a valid Slashdot article. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Here's why it's a valid Slashdot article. (Score:2)
This optimizations may be nvidia-specific stuff, since I never used other 3D hardware than nvidia. But that seems to be the beauty of OpenGL, one can extend it since it is open...
I spoke with one of the higher-ups of hardware development at NVidia recently -- he doesn't like DirectX, as it's a battle to get MS to support each new feature, and in an industry where a six month lead on a new feature is important, that's a big deal. OpenGL has a standard way of supporting new extensions, which he really likes.
Re:Pathetic. (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, believe it or not, geeks actually use MS stuff all the time. And kid, let me suggest that if you're so utterly offended, that you just set your preferences to ignore all MS related articles. You'd think that suck a l33t Linux h4x0r such as yourself would have figured this out already.
Re:ati is only supporter (Score:2)