Japan Takes A Look At Open Source Software 298
irish_spic writes " Accorting to this AP story (in yahoo news), the public management ministry is setting up a panel of scholars and computer experts, including Microsoft officials in order to study the use of Open Source software in the government. The article cites concerns about costs and security as the reason for the study. Me wonders if they are serious or just trying to get discounts from MS."
Haha!!! (Score:2, Funny)
Japan takes a look at open source software (Score:5, Funny)
Japan calls Microsoft instead.
The end.
this isn't a Haiku (Score:2, Funny)
Re:this isn't a Haiku (Score:4, Funny)
Japan calls microsoft in
Microsoft gets raped.
Japan really does see /.! (Score:2)
Re:HAHAHA YOU FUNNY YEAH FLIED LICE (Score:2, Insightful)
Microsoft? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ya'll do NOT get it. The panel shouldn't contain OSS partisans NOR M$ lackeys. It should contain ONLY individuals capable of running an OBJECTIVE study one way or another. All you get with this nonsense are two opposing sides calling each other names (metaphorically speaking). It is a foregone conclusion that the OSS people will push the great benefits of OSS while the M$ clown will spout how great M$-crap is, blah, blah. No objectivity anywhere to be seen.
An objective panel made up of objective individuals who run a faithful study on total costs, and benefits, top to bottom, money-wise and moral/political/freedom-wise.
Anything else is bullcrap.
Re:Microsoft? (Score:2, Insightful)
objectivity itself is a nice idea, but, like platos ideal forms, is simply a figment - it doesnt actually exist anywhere. the only people who would truly be neutral are people outside the industry who dont work with computers. and they wouldnt be knowledgeable enough.
Re:Microsoft? (Score:2)
I am not a computer "scientist" nor economist, blah, blah, so I am not one to actually DO such a study but...though I use and love Linux, I absolutely could be objective. Howso? I am a SCIENTIST. I only give a crap about reality. It doesn't matter what my personal conceits or preferences, if the data doesn't support my personal preference for the answer, then that is that. One MUST accept reality. I would be quite happy on several levels if the result did favor my personal biases and preferences, iceing on the cake, but I am certainly capable of conducting an OBJECTIVE study no matter my biases.
The data is the data, the results the results, it doesn't matter one way or another if they are to my liking or not, they would be reality. They would be fact.
If I can do it, then anyone else can do it too. But this panel isn't setup to be this way. It is setup for partisans pushing partisan agendas with no desire for a true and faithful study.
Re:Microsoft? (Score:2)
Now that you brought it up...our justice system is CRAP. It isn't about truth, it is about the APPEARANCE of truth and trickery. It is all about manipulating individuals rather than presenting the facts (ALL the facts) and letting the conclusion practically make itself.
In a correct and better justice system, there wouldn't be a prosecuter and a defense mutually trying to nail the accused regardless of FACTS or save the accused regardless of FACTS. Also, valid, real FACTS would not be tossed out, ever.
If police come by facts in an unacceptable manner, don't punish society by tossing the data out, punish those who collected the data in an unacceptable manner, from the Police Commish down to the officers. Make it a PERSONAL interest for them to not act inappropriately. As it is in the US, a person who clearly murdered someone could get off free because of a police evidence collection mistake, regardless of the FACT that the evidence clearly proves (scientifically speaking) that the individual did it. No. Not acceptable. You punish the victims family and society for a mistake of a few specific individuals. KEEP the evidence but punish those who collected it.
Next, the lawyers should be scientifically trained and be objective. The court should consider the available data and make a conclusion based ONLY on that and not allow showmanship, histrionics, spurious arguments, etc, to cloud what is a simple question: did the person here do what he/she is accused of doing? It should NOT be based on whether the defense or prosecution put on a better show.
Scientific questions aren't answered on the basis of grandstanding, showmanship, and subjective nonsense above all else. A conclusion stands or falls on the evidence/data. ALL the available data. Simply because a bit of otherwise valid data was collected in an unConstitutional manner doesn't make it magically turn into invalid data. It is what it is. The unConstitutional part is merely a play on emotion and things totally unrelated to whether the accused did what he is accused of doing. It should be addressed in a different manner and forum (nail the police investigators, the department, etc).
Re:Microsoft? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, even OSS advocates can have economic factors driving their beliefs.
... in the same sentence? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:... in the same sentence? (Score:5, Insightful)
When you study things, you find pros and cons. Is there any better way to see two sides of a story than invite both advocates and opponents of a given issue? If Open Source is indeed superior, it will be shown through discussions from both sides. If the presence of MS representatives is sufficient to show disuade Japan from adopting Open Source, then there are obviously faults that need to be fixed.
You don't study technology by gathering together a bunch of advocates: you study technology by pitting advocates against opponents.
Hope they see past the FUD (Score:3, Funny)
Of course here in the US we can easily discern whether this is the case: Just check to see if their lips are moving.
Ironic.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ironic.. (Score:4, Funny)
But Japan the most closed society? I mean, come on! Isn't the national mascot an Italian Plumber?
he was.... (Score:2)
nbfn
Re:Ironic.. (Score:2)
They don't even like Koreans, who look (don't tell them this) exactly like they do.
And you certainly don't want to tell them that they are likely descended from Koreans.
Re:Ironic.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Coming from a marine, this is disgusting. Especially the bit about looking exactly the same. Could you tell a Spanish person from a French person from a German person? Hell yeah. If you were born and raised in a Japanese society, you would feel this way, too. And plus, the island of Okinawa is extremely isolated. What do you expect? Japan is a homogenious culture. Don't confused homogeniety with racism.
And what does the fact that you're African-American have to do with anything? I get the feeling that you're 'playing the race card,' although I can't figure out why.
I must also ask, what were the pretenses of you being stationed on Okinawa? If it was because of World War II, then I'd say you're completely oblivious. Obviously they will be angry at people who are occupying their land and who are killing their people. If not, I'm interested, why were you there?
And please come forward, don't be an anonymous coward when you don't need to be.
Re:Ironic.. (Score:2)
I love Japan. I am also aware that many older Japanese are very racist (particularly against blacks), classist, and sexist. Try looking up the expression "Office Lady" or burakumin and you will see what I mean. Of course, things are changing and they are becoming less isolationist and are gradually picking up a lot of foreign culture (ie/ see the rise of the use of Janglish in Japan
BTW, Japanese people don't look the same as Koreans or Chinese either (hell, a lot of chinese look totally different, depending on their origin). Koreans are darker and Japanese are yellower, for example. That's like saying that all black people look the same (which is funny given the original poster's self-identification as african-american).
Keep in mind I am no expert on this subject (just a healthy interest in Japan and friends from Japan, China, and Korea that have filled me in on their part of the world) so if someone can give more accurate examples (ie/ someone from Japan
Amusing note on Japanese sexism (Score:2)
404 Not Found
(BTW, I like Japan as well. Don't think I'm trying to condemn an entire nation because they have some social problems. All nations have problems to deal with, and Japan is no exception. Clearly, there'd be no reason to bother discussing these issues if it were not already a great nation in many other respects)
Re:Ironic.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly my point. They're not different "races," they're the same, just with a different culture. So saying Japanese look like Koreans (or vice versa) is absolutely true.
That their culture, but it certainly is not racism.
Calling something "culture" does not automatically make it okay. It used to be American "culture" that whites should not marry blacks. That was unbelievably racist. How is this different? In many ways, the Japanese still have an "ubermensch" mentality, because unlike the Nazis, they weren't made to feel ashamed for the atrocities they committed. Indeed, America takes more heat for having dropped the A-bombs than Japan takes for the rape and enslavement of large portions of Asia. Ever hear of the "Rape of Nanking [tribo.org]?" A quote from that link:
Between December 1937 and March 1938 at least 369,366 Chinese civilians and prisoners of war were slaughtered by the invading troops. An estimated 80,000 women and girls were raped; many of them were then mutilated or murdered.
For comparison purposes, only 150,000 people were killed outright in the dropping of the two atomic weapons. Perhaps that many again had their lives substantially shortened by radiation, still fewer than the number of Chinese killed in early 1938, to say nothing of the subsequent years, and the other invaded nations. Even if you still think America was somehow at fault for the war, I've never heard an American say that we shouldn't marry German people, because of WWII. And the Japanese don't just say "don't marry Americans," they say "don't marry non-Japanese." Again, it's like the Nazis wanting to keep the purity of the Aryan race. Simply disgusting.
Oh, by the way, it's spelled "emperor." Just a tip.
overly simplistic (Score:2)
I have a friend who lived outside of Japan for most of her life, received an American education (in Germany) from 5th grade through high school and went on to collge in the US. While in the US, she dated a few non-Japanese guys, but she could never tell her parents about it because they insisted that she date and marry a Japanese guy.
Does she see it as racism? Sort of. But it's part of how cultures with long histories (that excludes the US) work. Whether it's Japanese, Arabic, Korean, or whatever. Preservation is one of the purposes of all cultures, and you can't deny an aspect of it by simply saying "it's racist."
American society inherently prefers mixing. But then, I also know a lot of Japanese-American friends who don't speak Japanese. They've become successful Americans, but didn't they lose something? They are now trying to learn Japanese as adults, but had American culture allowed them to respect their heritage, they might have been more inclined to learn Japanese when they were children (which would have been much easier).
Re:overly simplistic (Score:2)
Smoking a bit too much crack, are we? Of course it's fucking racist! That's pretty much the goddamn definition of racism right there. Arguing that it's just a way to 'preserve the culture' or some such crap doesn't in any way, shape or form justify the behavior. The behavior itself is despicable regardless.
Nothing on God's green Earth can excuse racism or the notion of racial superiority. Dressing it up as a 'cultural difference' is little more than apologia. Although I'm sure more than one white supremacist group would love to have you as a member (assuming you're racially pure, of course).
Max
Re:Ironic.. (Score:2)
Citizenship by ethnicity seems to be a pretty archaic idea, maybe these countries should reconsider.
This was already posted on Saturday... (Score:5, Informative)
Shhhhh... (Score:5, Funny)
Shhh!
I get all my karma by reposting all the (Score:5) comments on repeat stories.
Re:Shhhhh... (Score:5, Funny)
Shhhhh... (Score:2, Funny)
I get my karma by posting recursive paradoxing posts about repostings.
Re:This was already posted on Saturday... (Score:2)
Well, the leftist paper was citing a big Japanese newspaper. The only difference now is that it's the Associated Press reporting the same thing.
Re:This was already posted on Saturday... (Score:2)
Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it really matter? The end result is more press, more mindshare and for them to come right out and say that they are concerned about security is just... excellent. Soon the rest of the worlds governments will all be running Linux and the US will become a technological backwater. I guess if I want to stay employed here, I should start working on that law degree.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2, Funny)
I think a few nations have been watching that recently.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Well, with the rampant corruption at high levels in Japan, I think that people will take the Japanese governments eventual pro-MS decision with Cayman Island bank accounts in mind.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft has got the world to lose. If Free Software gets passed over this time, then it simply waits until the next round of upgrades. Three years from now when [insert country here] takes a look at upgrades GNU/Linux will still be there, and it will be better than ever (and still just as Free).
With all of the countries taking a serious look at Linux it is bound to make some progress. More importantly, Free Software keeps Microsoft honest. All of a sudden they aren't the only game in town. If they push their luck too hard then folks will switch. This gives people the leverage they need to actually negotiate with Microsoft.
Not completed related, but (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft (or BSA, anyhow) seem to be spending a lot (i mean a LOT) more money here on "anti-piracy" campains than in the US.
Trains are usually littered with BSA (piracy is crime) posters, and they have a HUGE (like maybe 40 feet across) sign in front of Shinjuku station (you know, downtown tokyo and all).
At the same time, I havn't seen free-software related stuff at all since I have been here. It might be the language barrier, but ancedotally speaking, I don't think I am seeing the same % of shelf space devoted to linux than in the US.
Re:Not completed related, but (Score:3, Insightful)
Regarding Free Software in Japan.. At the Japanese bookstores in San Fran and San Jose (Kinokuniya), there are translations of the O'Rielly books available. Plenty of stuff on Linux and Unix as otherwise as well. The material is available. Perhaps not the mindshare.
I wonder what slashdot.jp [slashdot.jp] has to say about all this.
Re:Not completed related, but (Score:2, Informative)
Every company I'been at here has a major piracy problem - from the OS to applications. It's not condoned, but there's a 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' atmosphere that makes it easy to turn a blind eye.
By the way, if you want to see free-software related 'stuff' here, go to a bookstore. Currently, the following magazines dealing with free software are widely available:
Software Design
Linux Magazine
Nikkei Linux
BSD Magazine
FreeBSD Press
How many does the US have? Linux Journal, ummm....
if you want to buy a distribution, Laox Computer-kan in Akihabara has a fairly good selection.
Re:Not completed related, but (Score:4, Informative)
Its like having a cigarette company decide if toba (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Its like having a cigarette company decide if t (Score:5, Insightful)
FreeBSD? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:FreeBSD? (Score:4, Insightful)
Rising sun economy going down (Score:2)
SP3 and DRM sucks.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Open Source in government (Score:2)
However, I'm concerned with issues regarding security. We have all heard the old saw regarding closed source vs. open source: 'Security through obscurity doesn't do the job', however this begs the following question: when does handing the enemy a blueprint of the fortress make guarding the castle easier? With Open Source, I'm concerned that not only are hackers being issued a blueprint for an attack, but that they can also build flaws into the system before it is even implemented!
Irregardless of the benefits Open Source can bestow on the government, it brings with it a flaw of extraordinary magnitude. Witness the problems caused when the latest flaw is discovered in BIND or ftpd, or when a trojan is actually placed in the software people use to protect their system (tcpdump)! Maybe the Japanese are just trying to wrangle a better price out of Microsoft, but I think it's possible they don't want to be left unguarded a couple of months whence after picking the cheaper solution.
Open Source is a bargain that offers far more than what you pay for; however, its track record with security is spotty, and who do you sue when things go wrong?
Re:Open Source in government (Score:5, Insightful)
is it just me, or is this one of those really, really american things to say? just that when something goes wrong, it's not "What went wrong and how can we fix it so it doesnt happen again" but "It went wrong, sue the fuckers!" (Insert rant about responisbility, parents, and Columbine here). Why is it that people cant possibly say, "oh, I fucked up, because i didnt read the freely accessible instructions, but instead have to blame someone else? just my $0.02.....
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Open Source in government (Score:5, Insightful)
Also note how quickly trojans slipped into major OS software are discovered, usually very quickly (matter of hours?) of the trojaned software being posted. Specifically, compare that to the (lack of [days, weeks, never]) speed with which M$ updates major security holes in thier products.
Re:Open Source in government (Score:2, Insightful)
Read your Microsoft EULA lately? Whom do you sue when Windows goes wrong?
Re:Open Source in government (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a risk regardless (as opposed to irregardless, which is not a word) of the openness of the source. Which MS product shipped with the "Netscapeengineers are weenies" backdoor password?
I assume you mean "Regardless" (without regard or without regarding) instead of "Irregardless". (It's not a real word, but it would mean the opposotie of the sense youwere trying for if it was a real word.)
OpenSource will almost definately get you faster patches (at least compared to MicroSoft's security-though-denial strategy). Also, remember when MS shipped a CD with a virus-infected product? (Does someone want to find me the /. story or another link?) You can manuallycheck for all known types of flaws/malicious modifications with OpenSource. With closed source you can run virus checks, but it's usually infeasable to decompile and look for back doors.
Who do you give thr death penalty after a suicide attack? If you fall back on the legal system or the prison system, you've got problems. When was the last time a customer sucessfully sued MS for damages due to faulty products or neglegent design/coding practices? Spotty scurity is usually better than rock-steady-awful security. There's also a lot to be said for being about to do your own audts instead of having to trust the vendor.
Re:Open Source in government (Score:2)
What are they thinking? (Score:2, Redundant)
Lots of press surrounding us
Big discount from MS
In other news.... (Score:5, Funny)
In other news, the farmer has invited a group of forest critters, including some foxes, to guard his hen-house.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Japan should know better by now... (Score:2)
BRAVO (Score:3, Insightful)
For years companies have been pitting competitor against competitor until in the end, the customer gets the right bang for the right buck.
Too many times I see Slashdot going on about how evil Microsoft and how great open source is, now thanks to Japan, we have a Showcase for PROOF POSITIVE what the world at large wants to know.
Microsoft or Open Source?
You don't think this is a testbed for something better?
Committee Meeting, Day 1 9:00am
MS: OpenSource Bad
OS: Microsoft Bad
Japan: Why?
MS&OS: Shit good question.
Justification is the key, and when spending money the way the Government does, getting 3, 4, 10 different companies via'ing for the business all leads to better justification.
OS or MS: We Won the Bid/Implementation because Japan wanted this this and this, we proved we had it, they didn't.
You get the picture
Yo Grark
-Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Re:BRAVO (Score:3, Informative)
> OS: Microsoft Bad
> Japan: Why?
> MS&OS: Shit good question.
Actually, I think the OS response would be: see here [linuxtoday.com] (the open letter from the Peruvian Congressman). And MS will probably have some dubious claims about how untrained monkeys can't necessarily administer linux/bsd boxes.
But I agree that it's a good thing that Japan is allowing all interested parties into the debate.
Re:BRAVO (Score:5, Funny)
Committee Meeting, Day 1 6:00pm
OS: If you look to page 3, you'll now see the pie chart showing server breakin percentages. It shows you that running an OS server will mean you have only 10% of the risk of being broken into versus running a MS server product.
MS: You know, it's getting kinda late. It's a tough question which one is better, why don't we discuss it further over dinner and drinks
Committee Meeting, Day 2 9:00am
OS: On page 5 we show a breakdown of virus propagation by operating system. Note how almost all viruses known to man are propagated by MS products [satirewire.com].
MS: Excuse me, after that hard night of booze and broads, I thought everyone might be hungry so I arranged to have some breakfast catered to our session. Why don't we pick up again after we eat?
Committee Meeting, Day 3 9:00am
OS: Now on page 9 we can compare the cost savings of using free and open source products over proprietary ones.
MS: Can I interrupt just a second, I've got an announcement to make. It's come to our attention that Japan is routinely devastated by attacks from Godzilla [gojistomp.org]. Because he's a concerned philanthropist, Bill Gates has decided to donate $100million dollars to Japan towards rebuilding efforts in the aftermath of these tragedies.
Committee Meeting, Day 4 9:00am
OS: On pages 18-26, you'll find a list of technical features that were created by open source products. On pages 27-39 you'll see how Microsoft included those features into their own products and then claimed how innovative their products are.
MS: Japan, I see that times are kind of tough right now so I've gone out on a limb and asked Bill if we can get you a deal on our software. We're going to be able to sell you Windows at $100 a license, that's below our cost to make it [theregister.co.uk], but you can have it if you sign a 5 year maintenance agreement. I'd hate for you to miss out on this offer, because otherwise you'll have to pay the higher prices later. By the way, what's the address of your political committee? I want to make sure to contribute to your reelection campaign [opensecrets.org].
MS: We're happy to report that the Japanese government found our products to be more innovative, secure and cheaper than open source software. This head to head competition was brutal, but we think the better software won out in the end.
Yeah, I'm happy someone's doing it right too.
Simple comparison (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft: expensive, slow development for fixes, laughed-at-by-main-stream-media security, closed source - which further stifles development, foreign, you support a monopoly
Linux: cheap or free, rapid and constant development and bug fixes, industry reknowned security, open source, it is "yours" once you embrace it, you support a grass roots movement of heart felt computer users and developers
It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.
Re:Simple comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm curious why Open Source automagically means "Linux"? Why aren't they looking at FreeBSD? If security and "open" code is their main objective, it's most definately a better value proposition, as it is truly "free". It runs KDE and OpenOffice just as well as Gnu/Linux does, and is more reliable as a server.
Re:Simple comparison (Score:2)
I would be they are... lots and lots and lots of BSD developers in Japan.
Re:Simple comparison (Score:3, Interesting)
Any of the BSD Unicies would also qualify. So would Hurd. And I'm sure that there are others. But Linux distributions are the ones that I know. And they're the ones that I can "sort of" depend on to stay Free Software, rather than being co-opted.
That "sort of" is a nod to Lindows and Xandros and United Linux, who seem to be trying to bury the "Free Software" aspect. Also to various patent lawyers and clerks, who seem willing to let large corporations patent adding 2 and 2 to get 3.9999987, or numbers close to it.
Sounds fair to me... (Score:2)
panel of scholars and computer experts, including Microsoft officials in order to study the use of Open Source software in the government.
On one side you have the scholars and computer experts, and on the other, you have Microsoft.
Why they have MS on the board (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason MS is on the board is simple. As it says in the article, Japan doesn't want to base their (potential) migration on hearsay. Simply put, they want to hear both sides of the story. I know a lot of us have heard the MS side of the story and dismissed it as garbage, but not everyone has.
Why do so many of us critisize somebody for trying to objectively attack a subject like this?
Re:Why they have MS on the board (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see anything wrong with Microsoft telling their side of the story. But the Open Source community doesn't really have that "single front PR department" that MS has. How will the panel hear both sides, if only one side is speaking?
Re:Why they have MS on the board (Score:3, Funny)
And there goes that lack of bias I was trying to have on this subject.
Re:Why they have MS on the board (Score:2)
MS Rep: "The TCO of running OSS systems is
[Joe Bursts in]
Joe: "FP!!! Linux Rulz!"
Chair: "Uhh... It's nice to have our OSS representative here, MS Rep please
Joe: "Look, not sure who ask the Devil to be here, but Linux Rox, ok?!"
Chair: "We'll get to your opinion after we hear about the discounts -- I mean -- opinions MS Rep has to offer."
Joe: "Dude, chill out, wagalimasta, k, brutha?"
MS Rep: "As I was saying, running OSS causes you to pay more money to your own people in your own country. You should pay less and only 90% of the gross will go back to Redmond."
Joe: "WTF?"
MS Rep: "Excuse Me?"
Joe: "I just have one question: Can you make a Beowulf out of these so-called products?"
MS Rep: "Uhh..."
Joe: "Look Mr. Chair, they're dead in the water. Isn't the evidence conclusive!?"
[Now the odor eminating from Joe Programmer begins to infiltrate the premises.]
Chair: "Mr Programmer, we're going to have to ask you to leave."
Joe: "Why?! That tramples on my rights! I have the right to be like this okay! This is how I am -- my Genes preprogrammed me, alright! It's all about Globalization and ANIME, okay!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[The members in the meeting room look at each other dazzled as Mr. Joe leaves.]
Re:Why they have MS on the board (Score:2)
Ninety out of 100 techs I know do not want to talk to the customer; and are glad for someone else to do the introductions and teach the software. Except in a few cases, how many instructors do you know also code or work in network operations at the same time? It's my opinion...!!! I know a lot of folks that work all day and teach a college or certification class at night.
Re:Why they have MS on the board (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes. Have you read any of their recent licenses? Have you noticed their "benevolent" contributions to governments, and people who work in them? I can think of no reason to not immediately distrust them, until AFTER they have proven that, in this instance, they were acting honorably. I've notice that perhaps twice in the past three decades. And I haven't been certain about those. (It's hard to be certain just who they are about to ask for what favor.)
MS can be an INTERVIEWEE, so can Red Hat, SuSE... (Score:2)
The very fact that there is more than one person to speak for OSS should be revealing to the Japanese.
The Asahi Shimbun Japanese version of the article (Score:5, Informative)
Who is going to be the MS representative? (Score:4, Funny)
16 Months time (Score:5, Interesting)
Governments when faced with something that they don't like often make it go away by commissioning a study, by the time that it comes out the fuss has died down and everyone has forgotten about it. I hope that that is not what is happening here. If that is the case, this is one 'fuss' where events will overtake the report.
Agh (Score:3, Funny)
Are they going to (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
United States == Open-source? (Score:2, Insightful)
Japan lags behind Germany, the United States, China and other nations looking into or using open-source software such as Linux, which can be used and modified for free.
I've heard about how Germany and China have switched/are switching to alternative operating systems, but since when was the United States using open-source software? The last i checked, even the Navy's fricking BATTLESHIPS ran on Windows 2000.
Am i behind the times, or are these guys on crack?
Mozilla! (Score:3, Funny)
US ahead??? that's a laugh (Score:2)
Last time I looked at the stats for various domains .mil (US MIL) was the only one that I saw where MS had an overwhelming dominance for web servers. (big surprise that they've had hundreds of boxes broken into?). .Gov was almost 50/50 and .us was only slightly better.
If they were talking about the US government being behind Japan, I think that they never bothered to check the statistics.
This is ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't believe how many posts I've seen that go along the lines of:
Micro$oft on the PANEL? ROFLMAO. It's not Objective! They'll never pick OSS! Who puts Micro$oft on a panel about OSS?!?!
Meanwhile, all the posts poiting out how dumb this is havent risen above a 3.
Newsflash zealots, to be "objective" you have to have viewpoints from ALL the sides, not just the one you want to win. The Japanese are doing the perfectly correct, and intelligent thing by including Microsoft on the panel.
Re:This is ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)
No. To be OBJECTIVE does NOT mean what you think it means. You cannot have individuals with a known bias on the panel and call it an objective or reasonable "study". It is already known a priori what "conclusion" the M$ rep will have. It would be just as bogus to have Stallman on the panel.
If you want the panel to come to a reasonable conclusion, then its members must be objective, period. An M$ rep is not objective. This panel is not looking for a real answer, it is looking for India-style "gifts" (that cost big in the not-so-long-run) from M$.
If they truly wanted an objective study, they would have brought in analysts who don't actually give a damn one way or another, but will actually run an objective study without having an inkling as to the way it is "supposed" to come out (in favor of M$ in this case because that is the only reason to include such a person).
You CANNOT have an objective look at the scientific evidence supporting the fact of evolution by including creationists. You cannot have an objective study on whether it is cost effective and good policy in general to use OSS with M$ reps on the "objective" panel.
Re:This is ridiculous (Score:3, Insightful)
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=objective [m-w.com]
"... b of a test : limited to choices of fixed alternatives and reducing subjective factors to a minimum."
Find me two perfectly unbiased analysts to make this decision. You can't, short of people who are completely unbiased because they don't know anything about the topic.
The definition talks about "reducing subjective factors to a minimum" By including Microsoft as well as OSS adovcates they are trying to balance the panel.
I agree with you about Stallman, but if the panel had been made up of just Stallman and the FSF the slashbots probably would be appaulding Japan over their selection of a well-rounded panel.
Since you can't find a truly objective person you have to balance everyone's views. As an old cliche puts it, there are three sides to every story, your side, his side and the truth. Japan wants to find out the truth, not Microsoft's story, and not OSS's story. By putting members of both extremes on the panel they are doing the best possible in the real world to get an objective analysis.
You know... (Score:2, Interesting)
It would be kinda pathetic to see MS stoop as low as to discounting their product just to sell it. Hasn't it always been thought that one must use the best tool for the job?
If MS spent more time trying to make their operating system and other products the best "tool" in the world, then OSS would have no chance.
Than again, it just looks like the nations are playing Microsoft just to save a few bucks.
If they don't Like Linux (Score:2, Funny)
TCO (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:TCO (Score:2)
You implicitly assume that politicians will do what is best for the people they represent. I wish you were right.
In fact, politicians will push public money towards people who "contribute money" to their re-election funds. Doing the right thing for the voters does win a few votes
In this case the "foreign megacorp" (M$) will probably regard a few $million, or even tens of millions, to key Japanese politicians a good investment, since it will make $billions out of a continued monopoly in Japan. This is what really drives political decisions. OS hasn't a chance.
Re:TCO (Score:2)
I think the usual idea is for a government to cut its IT costs so that it can spend the money on other things such as health and education. If the extra cost outweighs the license fees, plus the cost of downtime through inadequate security and viruses, then a government is unlikely to switch (imho)
Phillip.
I have to wonder... (Score:2, Interesting)
My long time student, the Japanese technology advisor to the Thai government, just went back to Japan, where he holds a fairly high position in the ministry there. My interaction with him for many months (on his request) was to bring up timely and interesting technical stories for discussion to help him improve his (already wonderful) English. We did much talking about OSS vs. proprietary software, DRM, etc... He was enormously interested in the uses of OSS in the government. Anyone on the inside know of a Nobuaki involved in this?
There are already studies of Japanese Linux use. (Score:5, Informative)
Cat among the canaries? (Score:2)
I can save them the 50M Yen, the time and tell you the recommendation they'll give. "Throw money at M$"
Japanese are definitely not incoruptible. Just ask the Yakuza.
There'll be kick-back deals happening in the initial process of deciding on where to hold the closed-door meetings and who should cater the meals and "entertainment."
Re:bad Japanese impersonation (Score:2, Informative)
Re:bad Japanese impersonation (Score:2)
It /must/ include MS employees to be objective. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm a major fan of open-source and all that, (using Gentoo as I type this) but there are still bad parts of OSS, like a lack of a really good Office clone, which is very important for businesses. It would be remiss for any organisation to choose OSS over MS based without looking at the (few) things they'll lose by chosing OSS.
Re:It /must/ include MS employees to be objective. (Score:2, Insightful)
We've all seen how the hive mind thinks (ie FUD), which is why I made the sarcastic remark in the first place. I'd expect that whoever is sent to this conference as a "diplomat" will only be there to push the MS agenda, rather than objectively participate in a meaningful discussion.
Re:Microsoft Representative? (Score:2)
This isn't redundant, its different.
I can just picture the Microsoft Reprensting reading off the back of the Windows XP box, or even worst that girl who did the fake Mac-2-XP switch.
Re:Japan just shot themselves in the foot... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say that this is much better than MS being given an opportunity to respond to the report directly to the politicians and in the absense of of those same OS-knowledgeable experts.
Get it straight, it's M¥ (Score:2)