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Opossums Overrun Brooklyn, Fail To Eliminate Rats 343

__roo writes "In a bizarre case of life imitates the Simpsons, New York City officials introduced a population of opossums into Brooklyn parks and under the boardwalk at Coney Island, apparently convinced that the opossums would eat all of the rats in the borough and then conveniently die of starvation. Several years later, the opossums have not only failed to eliminate the rat epidemic from New York City, but they have thrived, turning into a sharp-toothed, foul-odored epidemic of their own."

Comment Re:Socrates, not Aristotle (Score 1) 402

Interesting tidbit: The only record of Socrates is in the writings of Plato,

No, Socrates appears as a character in Aristophanes' Clouds (and the whole point behind Attic comedies is to make fun of real people), Plato's contemporary Xenophon wrote a good deal about Socrates, and some sections of Socratic dialogues written by Aeschines of Sphettos still exist. Aristotle was born over a decade after Socrates' death, but that puts him far closer in time than us, and he never questions that Socrates existed.

See? I did actually get something out of my degree in Philosophy.

A little more history of philosophy might have helped.

Comment Re:Riiiiight (Score 1) 402

Thanks for posting this (though why as AC? are you a competing scholar?).

One possibility though, would it make a difference if you excluded/included the names in the dialogue? You know how the dialogue says "Socrates:" and then what Socrates says. Your numbers seem so close...

I'm not the anonymous author of the grandparent post, but I can answer your question: in the Symposium, there are very few such tag lines. The dialogue is embedded in a conversation between two characters (Apollodorus and one of his nameless friends), but the main content (the story of Agathon's "symposium", i.e. drinking party) is related at second hand by Apollodorus (in fact, he reports the whole thing as something someone else told to him, which makes for some interestingly complex Greek grammar).

Comment Re:Riiiiight (Score 1) 402

Total length of dialogue

  • Kennedy's claim (p. 10): 2400 lines.
  • Actual: 2375 lines plus 2 characters (error: -25 lines)

25 lines in 2400 is about 1%. Given the uncertainty in knowing just where Kennedy's breaking the lines, that's pretty close. In fact, I took a few hundred lines from your version and moved the line breaks so that they always occured at a syllable (so that no line is over 35 characters, though many are less), and it moved the line count up about 2%. We don't know exactly how Kennedy's handling the line-break problem, so you may both be right, given your ways of counting lines. We also don't know what conventions Kennedy's following about breaking when a new character takes over (the Symposium is in a sort of embedded oratio obliqua, with two characters doing the talking, one of whom (Apollodorus) delivers most of the dialogue as a long indirect-speech report. Is Kennedy breaking where characters change, in either case?

  • Kennedy's claim (p. 7): begins at line 400, lasts 200 lines.
  • Actual: begins at 377 (-23), ends at 599, i.e. lasts 222 lines (+22).

With a 1% shorter line count, we'd expect it to begin at line 396 by your count. 396 - 377 gives 19, or about 5%, though the length variance is still 10%.

Eryximachos' speech

  • Kennedy's claim (p. 7): begins at line 600, lasts 200 lines("including the repartee over Aristophanes' hiccups": cherry-picking?).
  • Actual: speech extends 619-758 (139 lines); repartee extends 599-778, i.e. 179 lines (-21).

The starting-point is within 3%; if we go with 179 for the length, it's again about 10% variance between the two of you.

Aristophanes' speech

  • Kennedy's claim (pp. 7-8): begins at line 800.
  • Actual: begins at 778 (-22).

22 out of 800 is less than 3% variance.

Agathon's speech

  • Kennedy's claim (p. 8): ends at line 1200.
  • Actual: ends at 1180 (-20).

20 off out of 1200 is within 1%.

Socrates' speech

  • Kennedy's claim (p. 8): lasts 600 lines "including his conversations with Agathon and Diotima".
  • Actual: extends lines 1180-1833, i.e. 653 lines (+53).

53 out of 600 (9%), well above the previous variances.

Alcibiades' speech

  • Kennedy's claim (p. 8): lasts 400 lines.
  • Actual: extends lines 1955-2302, i.e. 347 lines (-53).

This is the biggest variation in the list (13%).

So, I think it's too strong to say Kennedy has only found very approximate correlation". We need to know more about just how he's determining his lines.

Comment Re:Completely misses the "News for Nerds" bit (Score 1) 402

It may reveal some details of how Plato himself thought of things, but it's not really any sort philosophical revelation. (From a scientist's point of view, philosophers have an odd fascination with the original sources, of which descendants are treated as degraded versions rather than improvements. Nobody would think to look in Principia or Origin of Species for special clues about the science that only Newton or Darwin would have had.)

Perhaps it's worth pointing out that this is a history of philosophy paper in a history of philosophy journal. I don't know whom you have in mind as philosophers who have an "odd fascination with the original sources", but in my experience (I'm a historian of philosophy by trade), philosophers have a perfectly good grip on the difference between history of philosophy and philosophy, just as scientists have a perfectly good grip on the difference between the history of science and science. And in this particular case, I can't imagine anyone in an academic philosophy department thinking that this paper will lead to great insights about any real philosophical issue: at most, it affects the interpretation of Plato.

Comment Re:Riiiiight (Score 2, Interesting) 402

Your version uses rigid 35-character lines, even when that breaks a word at a place no Greek would have (e.g. your very first line chops off a sigma from ameletêtos and puts it on the next line; a scribe would have broken at a syllabic division, surely). If the 35-character length is taken as a maximum for a line, then allowing for this will make some lines shorter than 35 characters and thus bring down the counts. Of course, you could adjust so as to get an overall average of 35. Either way, you'd need to do a lot of manual work to insert plausible breaks. I have no idea whether this would bring things more into line with Kennedy's data or whether Kennedy is allowing for it as well. It would be useful to have the details of Kennedy's algorithm.

Comment Re:Socrates, not Aristotle (Score 1) 402

Furthermore, as if it weren't wrong enough already, Socrates was not executed for heresy but for corruption of youth.

Actually, the charge appears to have included both of these, to judge by Plato's Apology: corrupting the youth, not worshiping the gods the state worships, worshiping "strange" gods, and for good measure "making the weaker argument the stronger".

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