High Power RocketCam Videos 264
HaveNoMouth writes "What happens when the founder of Xircom and his brother bolt a DV Camcorder to the side of a 200 lb. model rocket and press the red button? The incredible movies (with sound!) at Gates Bros. Rocketry tell the tale. The quality of these movies is by far the best I've seen from the "strap a camera to a flying toy" community. They have a nice gallery of still photos too.
If only everyone named Gates did stuff this cool."
What happens (Score:5, Funny)
Tens of thousands of USD is blown up in the air and converted into a couple of movies which can be shown on Slashdot so that we can make insightful comments like this?
Re:What happens (Score:3, Funny)
I was totally impressed by the quality of the movies and photos! but for some reason they all look the same to me. The movie is on repeat and keeps playing "503 Service Unavailable
The requested URL Bandwidth is temporarily unavailable." Gets kind of boring after watching it for 30 minutes.
Re:What happens (Score:3, Interesting)
; )
In the late 80's I was working in electronic weapons. Homing anti aircraft missiles had their internal electronics placed carefully and then covered in resin, due to the fact that when these incredible machines launched, large'ish unprotected components (electrolytic caps for eg) would generally rip right off the PCB's or otherwise be damaged. Sending the missle anywhere but where it was supposed to go.
Even cables would be tied into bundles, bolted down and resin'ed into place.
Ship mounted missles, like the "standard anti aircraft", would strip the on deck "grip paint" back to bare aluminium after just one launch, from the rocket blast.
I can't get to the site, it's
Re:Nah. This is what *really* happens... (Score:5, Funny)
If only everyone named Gates could create a web server that could take a slashdotting.
if only... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:if only... (Score:5, Funny)
That's Interesting! (Score:3, Interesting)
You know, since Carmack shares a love of the same hobby as these gentlemen, I wonder if this would interest him? I would say it might. And being that it might, I wonder if he would code a mini-cam for the Rocket Launcher in Doom III? Bullet-time eat your heart out!
Re:That's Interesting! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:That's Interesting! (Score:2)
You're right! Silly me, thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten about that! I rarely played UT, but when I did, I prefered the Strangelove mod. =)
Re:That's Interesting! (Score:2)
Re:That's Interesting! (Score:2)
Must be from Melbourne, Australia right?
SiN had this, as did Tribes (Score:3, Informative)
There was also a Tribes 1 mod that allowed you to deploy a base station which you could load with various missle types (my favorite was the one that exploded in poison gas) and then fly them around the map. You had to put them on the ground or on a structure, and you could only carry one missle ata time, so they had to be near an inventory station. My brother and I found a bug which allowed you to delpoy them on these floating, mid-air platforms with inventory stations. He'd fly a bomber waaaay up into the sky, I'd jump out, deploy the platform, fall to my death. He'd fly above the platform, jump out onto it, then set up a transporter. I'd respawn in the base, set up the other transporter, and wind up on the base in the sky. Then we'd set up missle stations and fly around destroying things. The best was when you had a missle in the air and you saw a scout car (really fast one-man vehicles). They were the same speed as the missles (except for one type) and catching them was a challenge. Occasionally, we'd get three people flying missles around. It took about 4 minutes to gain air superiority over most of the map. It took about 8 minutes for the other team to find our base in the sky and blow it up (or try, we'd defend it pretty well).
Anyway, flying missles around is great in CTF-type FPS games, especially when they have ultra-large, indoor/outdoor maps like in Tribes -- it gives the game a "Gulf War" flavor.
-B
Re:That's Interesting! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:That's Interesting! (Score:2)
Thank you for the correction! I've not the system yet to run that game, so I've not been exposed to its coolness yet. Hopefully I'll get to see people die up close and personal after the Holidays.
Well... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Not that I can tell you what's in the footage of the rocket.....
Isn't that just the way... (Score:4, Funny)
Don't know if I have the nerve to sacrifice a DV camera...but maybe someone else's camera would be ok
Re:Isn't that just the way... (Score:5, Interesting)
The solution would be to have a pipe around the rocket, by the time the rocket exits the pipe full thrust would be generated, and before that the pipe would keep it more or less straigt. Or if you can have such a motor design which can go to full thurst in minimal time it would be great, but that is expensive.
If you want a safer demo of this you can try this. Take the ordinary fireworks rocket, the small one with the long stick which you put in a bottle and then ignote the fuse. You will see that the rocket goes quite save. Next take a smaller bottle and place the rocket so that the bottom of the stick is very near to top of botle. you will see that the initial thrust will have the rocket out of the bottle, but since the thrust is not enough yet the rocket will begin to fall sideways and by the time it falls power is max and you have a SSM!Re:Isn't that just the way... (Score:2)
This is the same poor logic as when he told me to load a small firecracker into a plastic pill bottle, and then light it and cap it and toss it into a bucket of water. I was sure it wouldn't explode...I still have the scar in my left eyeball from the debris. I was bleeding, naturally, and by the time our Mom saw me she thought he'd stuck it in my mouth....oops.
Re:Isn't that just the way... (Score:5, Interesting)
What you need to do is to read this web page on how to design a stable rocket [nasa.gov] before you build one. Basically it all comes down to the last paragraph on the web page, which tells you to make sure you have the center of gravity closer to the nose than the center of pressure.
What you probably needed was to have more weight in the nose of the rocket and/or to use larger fins on the rocket. More weight in the nose would move the center of gravity toward the nose, larger fins would move the center of pressure toward the motor. If you had done this then the drag on the rocket from the air passing over it would have kept it straight up until it lost all upward velocity. Thus it would have not wobbled during the small delay between the first motor ending and the second motor getting up to speed.
Re:Isn't that just the way... (Score:2)
The errant rocket was properly designed and assembled up until just before launch...errr, I mean just before the second primary motor was added.
I've built and sucessfully flown many, many rockets, including single and multi-stage. This particular launch was the single most entertaining off pad failure I can recall, and it's retold here just to share the stupidity of the last minute 'modification', suggested by a known troublemaker and implemented by yours truly with the excuse of just being curious
What was needed was a deft ear to the launch crew...oh well. That reminds me...I owe him one.
Re:Isn't that just the way... (Score:2)
My worst rocketry accident occurred when I built a model SR-71 Blackbird. It was a beautiful model rocket and it took me a long time to get just right. I put it on the launch pad and everything was going ok until I hit the ignition button. The rocket got about 1/2 way up the launch rod and then it stuck. The force of the engine caused the rocket to tip over the pad and then it freed itself and went shooting off at about 2 feet off the ground. The damn rocket slammed into the ground nose first, jammed on, and then the ejection charge fired and lit the rocket on fire.
Many hours of work down the drain in 10 seconds. Amazing. It turned out that the 2 sections of the launch rod had gotten turned and, since they are designed to only line up a certain way, they were off center from each other. The rocket jammed on this and well...
Cool! (Score:2, Interesting)
What happens? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What happens? (Score:2)
Shock certified camcorders! (Score:3, Interesting)
For one, JVC and Canon camcorder models mentioned in the site get shock certified at 0.6 Mach speed, with forces exceeding 1G. Wow!
Re:Shock certified camcorders! (Score:4, Funny)
The speed is impressive, but I certainly hope it could handle more than 1G. Otherwise, you couldn't pick it up off a table without breaking it.
Cheap shots... again. (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it really really neccessary to have a cheap shot at MS no matter how little the post might be related? Why don't we just have a default sig "Windoze sucks, Linux rulez."?
Just in case the posters read the comments: Please lash out at MS and other scapegoats ONLY when it is justified. (not too optimistic, since not all posters proofread the submissions or even read the articles, it seems... sigh...)
Re:Cheap shots... again. (Score:5, Funny)
yes.
Why don't we just have a default sig "Windoze sucks, Linux rulez."?
we do.
---
Windoze sucks, Linux rulez.
Re:Cheap shots... again. (Score:2)
It's plain that this site is run by, read by and posted to by cry-babies. One gets the impression that all of Open Source and Linux is a giant playpen full of brats.
The word "professional" is truly not in the vocabulary here. And that is a huge shame.
Yes it is necessary. (Score:2)
As he is an active
But Bill's shooting for Jupiter (Score:2)
Microsoft Corp will today announce further details of its Jupiter project to componentize and integrate its e-business server family, including Content Management Server 2002, Commerce Server 2002, and BizTalk Server 2002.
"by far the best I've seen" (Score:5, Funny)
Combine the best of both. (Score:2, Funny)
Get the best of both, people freaking out hilariously and lots of h4w7 n3kk1d gur1z 8-). You could even have it blow up afterward, but that would ruin the whole video thing.
On the subject of 'Gates' (Score:3, Interesting)
Does the guy code?
Does he have other geek hobbies?
I mean, seriously. I think this is fascinating stuff. Whether we like it or not, HE'S ONE OF US (but maybe with a different economic perspective). Wouldn't it be interesting to get to know the other Bill Gates?
Re:On the subject of 'Gates' (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps a slashdot interview -- with the restriction that nothing can be about anything MS related (ie: "Do you think DRM in windows... etc" is a no-no, but "How often do you blow shit up in your microwave? Do you have a warehouse full of microwave ovens?" yes-yes") would be a good idea.
Perhaps we could even get him to admit that he's been contributing to the apach project under a psuedonym for the past three years...
-your mother
Re:On the subject of 'Gates' (Score:5, Interesting)
Bill went from being a (perhaps upper-) middle-class Harvard student to the richest person on the planet in the space of fifteen years or so. That *had* to involve a large lifestyle change. While I'm not at all interested in his present personal affairs, I am interested in how he handled the transition from college drop-out to industry icon. I'd like to ask:
-How did you handle the transition from handling your own personal affairs (going down to the dealer to by a car, buying your own Pepsi and Fritos at the grocery, etc.) to having assistants and minions perform all these functions for you? When did this transition occur? At the time, did you view the transition positively or negatively (i.e., as one of the benefits of success, or one of the banes)?
-When was the last time you drove yourself to work on public roads, or flew on a commercial airline flight? When the transition to limousines and personal aircraft occurred, what was the rationalization (e.g., more time available for work, increased prestige, etc.) for their use?
-When did you first feel the need for 24x7 personal security? How did having people around you constantly affect your lifestyle? (Personally, I'd find it pretty creepy to have people monitoring me all the time--but even more creepy to realize that they were needed.)
-You were single a relatively long time, then married a woman who worked at your office. As the richest bachelor on the continent, I can imagine that the competition among the single women at MS for your attentions must have made Machiavelli look like a Sunday-school teacher. Were you aware of this? If so, how did you address the resulting problems with office politics? Did you suffer from the insecurity, so common among the wealthy and powerful, that everyone that meets you is more interested in your money and power than in you?
Just post the above in the "unavailable for comment" file....
Re:On the subject of 'Gates' (Score:3, Interesting)
See here [greenspun.com] for a concise biography of Gates, in particular the history of the wealth of the Gates family of Washington State. Summarizing he's always been upper class, he was already from one of the wealthiest families in Washington State at birth. As an aside many "entrepreneurs" came from upper class backgrounds: the Walton family (yeah Sam started off running a mom and pop grocery but it's been growing exponentially since the early 70's, by the time Wal-Marts started popping up like dandelions Walton was already among the wealthiest people in Arkansas) and Donald Trump (second generation scion of a New York real estate millionaire) and Ted Turner (he bet the already considerable family fortune on cable television in the early 70's).
Really there are two kinds of "entrepreneur" those who entered the world without access to significant capital (Larry Ellison, don't know about Jobs, Mark Cuban) and those who risked significant personal wealth (Turner, Gates et al.) to move from being merely very wealthy (as in top1 or 2% of the population) to extremely wealthy (as in the number of individuals with similar wealth on the entire planet numbers less than 1000). Given that the very wealthy can afford to make great sacrifices (gamble) because often they will still be very wealthy even if they fail it's really not that remarkable that sometimes they succeed. For example Gates sacrificed a Harvard degree (and the concommitant access it provides) to move to New Mexico where all he had to fall back on was a $1 million trust fund ($1 million in 1979 remember, invested conservatively at 6% that's $3.8 million today a far cry from $1 billion but I'm sure Bill would find a way to survive on it).
Re:On the subject of 'Gates' (Score:2)
It's only in the last few years that he finally bit the bullet and got a private jet.
So my guess is that he didn't think much of some of the changes, and was probably forced into them strictly for reasons of privacy.
D
like some pie? (Score:2, Insightful)
I think that we all know when [com.com] that happened.
Dontcha mean.... (Score:2)
Oh, thats right, the whole struggling 'artist' concept applies- it's good to suffer the injustices of the majority for your craft....
Amazing! (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, the videos of the rockets are OK too.
*rimshot*
What happens? (Score:4, Funny)
You prove to NASA that it can be done cheaply? [slashdot.org]
-mo
If only he wanted to see his pastrami in orbit... (Score:2)
Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. (Score:2)
Sigh. It's true. In the TV business the product is not the show that is sold to the viewers; the product is the viewers who are sold to the advertisers.
How did they keep that thing balanced? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How did they keep that thing balanced? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How did they keep that thing balanced? (Score:2)
The problem with losing a fin is not the resultant asymmetry of the rocket, it's that it shifts the center of pressure very far forward - almost always ahead of the center of mass, which then results in, to put it mildly, a "suboptimal" flight pattern. : )
You'd be amazed at some of the amazingly odd designs people come up with that still fly perfectly fine. Take a browse through here [aeroconsystems.com].
steve
Question... (Score:3, Interesting)
Is there some sort of height limit?
What about the UK (where I live)?
Re:Question... (Score:5, Informative)
More info? The leading organization is www.tripoli.org.
Re:Question... (Score:2)
The problem isn't really the US agencies, its the launch detection systems of other countries. You don't want the Russians to think there's an ICBM heading their way when John Carmack sends up his first test rocket, do you?
Re:Question... (Score:3, Informative)
A few years ago my friend bought a model Rocket from Beatties (a toy shop). We went down to a local park which was deserted. Just as we were about to set it up for the third launch we were approached by a local Bobby who told us to stop immediately.
Just found [a href="http://www.gbnet.net/orgs/staar/legal.html"
I wish we could have taped this... (Score:5, Funny)
Piglet was firmly taped to a display firework rocket (one of those damn huge ones), head facing the sky before being fired into the sky. Can you say "Pigs in Spaaaaaaace!" ;) :)
I wish we could have had a Piglets eye view of it, we kept finding bits of piglet in nearby streets for days
Re:I wish we could have taped this... (Score:2, Funny)
That thing starting to come back down way too early - we started to get a bit worried as it started to curve back down, luckily it exploded just high enough so that only a few sparks bounced off our roof!
Shout's of 'Pigs in Space' soon turned to 'Shit, INCOMING!!'
Anyone Thinking of "FoxTrot" (Score:4, Funny)
G-forces on the DV camera (Score:3, Insightful)
I would have at least expected a bit of flicker as the tape strains, or the motor backtracks a little or something...
Very cool.
Re:G-forces on the DV camera (Score:2)
Some time ago, I downloaded all of their movies. in the higher-thrust liftoffs, yet, the G-forces do causes temporary glitches in the video, but they're very minor. However, when the deployment charge goes off and separates the sections, there is a more noticeable dropout in video.
steve
Anybody get a mirror? slashdot should offer! (Score:5, Insightful)
What happens when?... it gets slashdotted! Help them out, slashdot!
Anybody get a mirror? Maybe slashdot should think about providing mirrors of small time operators' sites when an article like this is posted. We all *know* the poor little guy is going to get slashdotted. At best, he can't show his girlfriend/ dad/ best friends what he is up to. At worst, he gets a hefty bandwidth bill from his ISP. Linking to IBM etc is another thing, but surely slashdot could show a bit of community spirit and responsibility and offer a mirror before posting up articles with links to little guys?
Re:Anybody get a mirror? slashdot should offer! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Anybody get a mirror? slashdot should offer! (Score:2)
You don't understand Slashdot's business model (Score:3, Insightful)
Slashdot's 'content', what people come for, is all hosted by other people. It almost always is full of multimedia. They pay the real bandwidth costs.
In this business, at sufficient scales, bandwidth approaches 100% of the costs, the servers nearly factor out. So, Slashdot offers a service to its readers for almost nothing by passing on the content costs to the sites it links to.
Don't get me wrong, the slashdot infrastructure is well-done, it's highly available and you do need good capacity to handle the user base it has, but it couldn't be profitable if it had to pay for all the bandwidth the 'Slashdot-experience' requires.
Now, if they had caches for 'gold-level' subscribers, that might be profitable, say at a hundred bucks a year.
Re:Anybody get a mirror? slashdot should offer! (Score:2)
I know! I know! Oooh, pick me! *waving hand* (Score:3, Funny)
They have to get a new web hosting provider because the old one gets slashdotted, blames them for the outage, and kicks them out?
You guys should ask permission before hosing them (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You guys should ask permission before hosing th (Score:2)
I'm serious! The lawyer might have a leg to stand on. And I'm sure slashdot doesn't really want to end up spending what meagre money it has on lawyers of it's own.
Not that I or you think that they'd be justified. Put your stuff up in public, no fault of anyone else if an interested crowd shows up. Bah, I'm just trying to scare them into it.
Giving a warning WOULD be a courteous thing to do.
Re:You guys should ask permission before hosing th (Score:2)
Re:You guys should ask permission before hosing th (Score:3, Insightful)
If you DO make it public, and a lot of people suddenly look at it, and as a result you exceed your bandwidth/transfer-limit/server-specs limitations, this means one of two things:
(1) Your site has become, at least temporarily, far more popular than you anticipated! Hooray!! Now to call the ISP...
(2) You can't afford to be popular, so you probably shouldn't have made it so public. You, the server administrator, made a mistake. Perhaps you should have required a password to access the resources.
If someone runs their own web page, like
If someone makes your server so popular that you can't handle it, that's really not their problem.
-=Ivan
This is nothing new... (Score:2, Funny)
Gates (Score:4, Funny)
What? Windows for Warheads?
Not a Model Rocket (Score:2)
Typical Gates baiting........ (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah..... sadly, all Bill Gates does is donate hundreds of millions of dollars to finance vaccinations [bbc.co.uk] for children in third-world countries who otherwise wouldn't receive them. But then again, not everybody named Gates can put their fortunes to such practical use......
</sarcasm>
It has also been done with Low Power Rocketry (Score:2, Informative)
www.videorocketry.com [videorocketry.com]
(videos available Here [dph.com])
One prime candidate for a low power camera is the discontinued Intel Play Digital Movie Creator [intel.com]. You record video onto a chip and upload to your PC via USB. I believe I saw this camera resurface at Toys R Us under the manufacturer name "Digital Blue". Anyone?
Here is an example of the Intel camera at work in an off-the-shelf Estes rocket with a payload bay added [dph.com]
And here is a rocket with Gumby as the pilot [dph.com].
Re:What happens when... (Score:2, Insightful)
They're just asking to be
Are you nuts? (Score:2)
Re:Are you nuts? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Are you nuts? (Score:2)
definitely! (Score:2)
Besides, it landed standing up. How cool is that?
Re:Great movies... (Score:2, Funny)
Mirror of photos (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Mirror of photos (Score:2)
Re:Great movies... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Great movies... (Score:2, Funny)
I'd like to see a camera strapped on the side of one of the cruise missiles. Well, I guess they already have those. Never mind.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Exactly. It is extremely bizarre in cases like this where the thrill is obtained by just burning money and no brains or hack value (which they seem to be hunting for) involved at all. I believe this experiment could have been useful too - but atleast they failed to reveal that on the site. But naturally, it is their money and they can burn it anyway they want. As it must matter for them a lot: hack-value points from the local audience: void.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Beats me ;)
This is just as childish as anyone else who has a hobby on a side note, I saw these guys launch at LDRS in Amarillo, these guys rockets kicked some SERIOUS ass!! and if you happen to watch the video's rarely destroy a rocket
True. I guess it's just too hard to imagine myself in the same league of money wasting. My original point was however, that it would have been interesting to read some bit more analytical results of the experiments. I'm sure these guys have already a lot to share on the subject. Anyway, it was dull whining from me. I guess I am having a bad hair day. :)
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:5, Funny)
No.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:5, Interesting)
BTW, if you had actually RTFA or watched the videos, you would know that they recover the rockets using parachutes - which keeps the camcorders from breaking apart when the rockets reacquaint themselves with terra firma.
If you really believe your own bullshit, what are you doing with a computer and an internet connection? For what you spend every month on your internet connection alone you could feed a starving child in Uganda for a year! I mean, really! Shame on you (and me)!
We should be volunteering at our local soup kitchens and donating all our spare cash to feed those poor starving children in some nameless backwater instead of surfing the web, watching TV, and playing with our modded Xboxes. After all, /. user number 601843 says so!
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:3, Insightful)
And I assume you have the credentials to back up this claim? Please tell me which university has granted you a degree in rocket science or aerospace engineering.
It is quite simple, these people are *burning* money for no other reason than there own individualistic selfish satisfaction.
It's their money to burn. Maybe the people who do these kinds of things also tend to be socially-conscious people who donate a sizeable chunk of time and/or money to the Good Cause Du Jour. Besides, hobbies, individualism and fun are bad because...?
I am merely stating that when you look around at the world (and the Internet has been enormously useful in helping us to do just that) you see repressive states, anti-democractic regimes, torture, poverty, starvation and unhappiness.
And what exactly do you suggest we do about this? I mean it - if you have the solutions to these problems, speak up! People have been trying to solve these problems for literally thousands of years - if you know how to solve them, well...the Nobel Peace Prize awaits!
When you start to think you as a nation have absolutely no responsibilies to the rest of the globe (ie as America so often does)...
You're right. We don't. Since when did the US (or any other nation) become the world's police force/janitors/feeders/saviours? Why should we have to clean up the messes made by others? Everybody bitches when the US doesn't get involved, then they bitch when the US does get involved. Make up your fucking minds already!
...Resentment caused by the US getting involved and trying to help someone somewhere (regardless of whether said attempts to help were unsuccessful and/or directed at the wrong people or places - nobody ever said the US was perfect, at least nobody who's sane).
And if this is allowed to grow unchecked *no* amount of American hegemony or military muscle is going to stop it.
Hear hear! Personally I'd like to see the US withdraw from the UN and tell them to find another country to hold their parties in, then withdraw all military forces to US soil, to be used only to totally annihilate any nation that invades the country or blows up parts of it. Then tell the rest of the world to go clean up their own damn mess.
But then maybe its true that you *really* don't care and don't want to know...
<sarcasm>You're right. I don't care and I don't want to know. I just want to watch cool videos of big penis-shaped rockets being fired into the air, and speculate on how big of a payload they could carry to blow up schools and hospitals in some third-world starving hellhole.</sarcasm>
(jlanthripp, posting anonymously because of the bleeding heart socialists with mod points)
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Damn right. That was not the intent either.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
If you'd have taken the trouble to take a look at the site and the video's, you'd have seen that the object they tried to achieve wasn't blowing up camcorders, it was to send one up in a rocket and bring it down in one piece. Which they did.
As for the "gain" they got out of it... as anyone with a similar hobby knows, it is not about cheap thrills, but about the thrill of personal achievement. And as anyone who has experienced that kind of thrill will attest: it is something worth spending money on.
Charity==good; Sanctimony==bad (Score:2)
Giving liberals a bad name.
Probably we're being trolled... (Score:2)
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Ultimately, possesion is what leads to poverty. It also leads to having an economy. If you ask me the jury's still out, but in Western Civilization, inventing shit, finding new ways to do things, and getting rich is "morally right." Cultures that don't hold those values get disappeared by Western Civilization. Our whole "way of life" is in part predicated on greed. It's the Invisible Hand that Adam Smith was all on about.
The problem, though, is how do you get people to share without, well, completely redistributing wealth and resources? And why shouldn't there be poor people? If you're lazy, shouldn't you be poor?
These questions have been debated for centuries, and we still have poverty. We suck.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Have you actually *read* The Wealth of Nations? Do you think that Adam Smith was proposing completely unchecked market economics???
Er... No.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
By the way, it was brilliant how you refuted my arguments simply by positing that I never read the article. And I don't know how you inferred what you did in the part before the ???
For the record, my point is: The same forces which creates so many of the good things in civilization also ensures there will be bad things, and that bad things will happen if an individual sees a compelling enough good to offset the badness.
Take for example that time-bomb oil tanker two miles underwater off the coast of Spain. That's a bad thing. But before it sank, it was good. It would create wealth and add value for so many people along the way, as it gets unloaded, refined, distributed, sold, and combusted.
We all get in our cars in the morning and drive to work, knowing that by doing so, we guarantee that eventually things like this oil tanker disaster-in-the-works are bound to happen. So on the one hand we have the "good thing" of being highly mobile and the freedom that brings. And essentially the Western World has decided that we'd rather have cars and run the risk of a huge ecological disaster than NOT drive cars, and NOT run the risk of a huge ecological disaster.
The ways society justifies or rationalizes that decision-making process are many, but a really important one (possibly paramount) is Capitalism. We do things for no other reason than they will create wealth. They need not perform a useful function, creating wealth is utility in and of itself. It seems innocent enough, but a lot of it has "hidden costs", or at least costs that the capitalist won't have to pay directly, because they'll get some big government bailout or corporate welfare or special law passed, like this thing shielding Eli Lilly from lawsuits because they used mercury in their injections. See, the immunization of children represents a "good thing," they used a mercury preservative because it was cheaper, which had a "hidden cost" that didn't show up on the balance sheet at first. And now society is stepping in, to shield Eli Lilly from paying that hidden cost, because we've decided that we'd rather have Eli Lilly around in the future to create more value than to make them pay for their "oops." Which wasn't really an "oops", except in the sense of "oops, we got caught." Monsanto, GE, the S&L bailout... It's pretty obvious why we have poverty. If I could stop paying to clean up other people's messes, things might change. But that might put thousands of decent, hard-working people out of good-paying American jobs, and we can't have that!
This is all probably nothing new to you, since you've read Adam Smith.
peace bro
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Why are so many slashdotters so seemingly terrified of a critical question about one of the site posts?
Must we really be robots being fed this information or can we actually say something critical occassionally without the need for abuse?
No-one seems to be proposing outlawing hobbies, and frankly I don't propose to, however some hobbies make less sense than others, for example Saddam presumably thinks he has every right to indulge in his 'hobbies' so why are you American's so keen to stop him? Oh right, yeah, because he is a *threat* to the world, he is 'evil'... oh I see claims to a moral position when it suits the *Americans*....
Or would it be ok if he strapped DV cameras to his rockets and posted them to Slashdot?
Does raise the interesting question of this very useful rocket technology information being posted where Saddam can find it easily ...
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:3, Insightful)
Congratulations on resorting to the last refuge of a desperate debater. Only took you 50 minutes from your first post.
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
Yeah lets compare.. with a President who *Stole* the election from the American people...
Yeah interesting eh?
Re:Time to put away childish things... (Score:2)
And as I have said previously, I am not anti-technological nor anti-progess, merely I believe we need to be more sensitive to issues. Rather than, wow a rocket that has a DV camera, gosh, wow, amazing. Yeah right.. amazing waste of money... hardly creative and hardly useful either...
And I have not said stop buying things. The purpose of the post was to raise a dissenting voice and say, hey, maybe this isn't all that great, is that *so* bad??