BBC Hails "fair" Microsoft XP SP1 472
Richard Bown writes "Continuing their current trend of only giving you half the story the BBC have
this article on how fair and equitable Microsoft are these days. No mention of EULA changes."
No amount of careful planning will ever replace dumb luck.
Karma Whoring (Score:5, Informative)
And, for anybody who is using XP, they say that the software (like IE, Media Player, etc) is hidden. But if I double-click on an HTML file, does it come up in IE anyways? Or does it say "File type not recognized"?
</Karma Whoring>
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:5, Funny)
(Now that I have an XP user in my grasp...) How difficult is it to turn those programs off? Is it hidden in an obscure Control Panel setting, three pages deep in the "Uber-Advanced Options", with a dozen warnings saying "This will break your computer and ruin your marriage, not to mention bring war to peaceful nations and kill a dozen kittens"?
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:2)
I wonder if this was a requirement MS had from the antitrust case. To have it easily accessible. I mean -- I would be less surprised if they placed an icon of the Windows Media Player on the start menu root.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:3, Informative)
Win2K SP3 adds a similar feature...but I'd recommend against installing it. In addition to the issues previously noted [slashdot.org] WRT SP3, I've found it's great at destabilizing Win2K. Two of my machines started bluescreening whenever a DirectShow filter graph involving their webcams (Orange Micro iBot [orangemicro.com]s) was closed, and I just spent the past weekend in Phoenix reloading everything on my father's computer because SP3 hosed his MSN setup and caused printing to run at a glacial pace. Now that all of the affected machines have been put back to SP2, all is well with the world again.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:2)
That is who this new feature really targets.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:5, Insightful)
Less biased in Microsoft's favor != less biased overall.
Let's not forget who owns CNN nw...
Plenty of non-Microsoft platforms for AOL (Score:2)
What percent of AOL users use something other than an MS operating system?
I don't know, but there are plenty of devices that run AOL clients without running Windows: AOL Mobile Communicator, AOLTV, Instant AOL for Internet terminals, AOL for PDAs, AOL by land phone and by mobile phone, etc [aol.com]. How many of those are used by Mac users rather than Windows users is anybody's guess (unless you work in AOL marketing).
Re:Plenty of non-Microsoft platforms for AOL (Score:2)
Solaris. But the UNIX IEs are sorely out of date and even when they were released they were no good. All they really could do was basic web site rendering. No flash (not such a bad thing), java, media player, etc. The only good modern browsers on non windows/mac systems are open source.
Kinda ironic considering how proprietary and closed most comercial UNIX apps were just a few years ago. You're best off just using Konquerer or Mozilla if you are using a commercial UNIX as a desktop.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:2)
How is it less biased? It says the same damn thing.
And, for anybody who is using XP, they say that the software (like IE, Media Player, etc) is hidden. But if I double-click on an HTML file, does it come up in IE anyways? Or does it say "File type not recognized"?
Ok, you obviously didn't read the articles, either. The agreement was for NEW computers to be able to come with different default programs. The Service Patch isn't going to remove IE completely, and install Netscape for you!
And as far as "hiding" goes, you don't need a damn service pack to do it. It's called the "delete" button. Any shortcut anywhere (including the IE icons) can be deleted.
Jesus, the gov't has no business having anything to do with technology.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:2)
It's still a valid question, and from the other questions, and experience with the Win2k release of this thing that occured a couple weeks ago, it does pretty much what he's asking about, which is ignore the fact that there's a program that can open it until you install something else that will.
And as far as "hiding" goes, you don't need a damn service pack to do it. It's called the "delete" button. Any shortcut anywhere (including the IE icons) can be deleted.
That isn't quite the same thing, as double-clicking an html file would bring up IE unless you also removed the IE files themselves (not just the shortcuts). You'd have to go into the registry and edit/remove the file type associations.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:2)
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:2)
CNN = AOL Time Warner = Big Microsoft competitor
But of course, this is the media so they would never be biased.
Re:Karma Whoring (Score:3, Informative)
Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:2, Interesting)
Not True. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:3, Informative)
Some are saying that MS disabled all serials for the "Corporate Edition" starting with F and P.
What happens if installing on SP1 with the FCKGW key then?
You'll get a message similar to "this key is pirated -- blabla -- you need to immediately obtain a legal key". Then I recall your copy of XP needs activation and you get this timer before it's *completely* deactivated and you're *forced* to phone MS to use the crap.
Needless to say, there are ways to change a key before installing SP1 without uninstalling XP.
Also, there are a key generator (yes, that "Blue List keygen") available for XP that generates keys not detected as illegal by SP1.
So, in the end, not much has been changed in the warez scene from this. Integrated Windows XP SP1 Corp Ed. ISO's with working serials are already floating around.
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:2)
Previously this information wasn't sent, so the option of blocking like this wasn't available.
Still, at £240 a pop (yay, half a grand to get XP on both my desktops), there's plenty of reasons for the crackers to do something about it. I *really* do hope MS have the sense not to start an arms race that's just going to waste a lot of people's time, just for a handful more legitimate copies of Windows. If they make it too hard to crack, alternative OS's will just become the path of least resistance, Office apps and games or not.
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:2)
And this guy [prodigy.net] is saying that he thinks Microsoft has plans of upgrading the Windows Update service to check the keys (by reverse-engineering the product id) against a database of valid keys. If the key isn't listed, it would then be assumed to be illegal. This would stop key generators as well, unless they happen to generate keys of legit versions, which isn't very likely due to the huge number of combinations possible.
Re:Not that this is a warez site or anything (Score:2)
*slap my face* Wake up!
So how is the story unfair? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it doesn't bash Microsoft?
It would have been nice of the submitter to make his case instead of just linking to the article and whining how "wrong" it is.
Re:So how is the story unfair? (Score:4, Informative)
The main problem with this article is that BBC makes it sound as if there was already a final settlement in the anti-trust case. Nowhere in the entire article do they point out that there is only a proposed settlement, and that Microsoft's actions are being taken to try and forestall more restrictive penalties by the government. And, finally, the method used for "hiding" the MS software doesn't help much for those who don't want to use them because the other software manufacturers have to write their software to take advantage of the changes. Of course none have done it yet, so you actually cannot change your default browser to Netscape right now, no matter what MS says.
None of that is MS bashing. This is. MS is a monopoly. They know they are a monopoly. People like Steve Ballmer within the executive circle of MS have no intention of letting go of their monopoly. Unless Judge Kollar-Kotelly takes very restrictive and punitive measures against MS they will just continue to do this, again and again. The obvious solution, one which would actually benefit the country economically, is to first penalize the company for it's actions, and then, after the penalty phase, split the company into at least two parts, perhaps three, with each new company restricted in a fashion that will help to prevent future monopolistic behavior. The first time I bought MS Office (Office 95 Pro) its cost was 10% of the cost of a reasonable PC ($200 vs. $2,000). Now the cost of MS Office is $499 (Office XP Pro). A reasonable PC is about $1,000 (office automation, web surfing, etc. not a gaming machine). Not only is Office XP not 250% better than Office 95, it's not even 100% better. I refuse to use Office anymore. Unfortunately at work I have to, since it is our company standard. That may change, according to some rumblings I'm hearing. In the meantime I will never again spend any of my own money on MS products.
Re:So how is the story unfair? (Score:2)
You can't? Why does IE tell me "This is not the default browser" every time I try running it?
Re:So how is the story unfair? (Score:2)
"fair" is in quotes because I don't believe that a fair solution is actually possible. But that's as close as I can come. O -- and the various companies should be forbidden recombining for a period of, say, 20 years. And they all have full rights to the IP of their parent.
Open standards (Score:2)
Re:So how is the story unfair? (Score:2)
Microsoft deserves to be bashed, but the naivete of
Re:So how is the story unfair? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So how is the story unfair? (Score:2)
Well, I have to say I goofed. Yes, with Mozilla 1.1 (I have no idea about Netscape 7) it does indeed work with the MS Program Access and Defaults applet. When I first installed Win2K SP3, none of the ISV software worked with it. I hadn't upgraded Mozilla yet. I did this morning, and I can indeed make it the system default, hide IE, etc. However, IE is still there, and half the system still uses it (like Windows Explorer, for example). I was basing what I said off experience from a few weeks ago. Oh well.
But here's the real issue. I don't want to install IE or Windows Media Player. I don't like the products, and I don't like the EULA that comes with them. Since I must install them if I install Windows, I went with a better, in my opinion, solution than Microsoft's window dressing solution. I got rid of Windows on my home PC.
Re:Why are PC's less expensive? (Score:2)
Well, except for going up by 150%, anyway... That's a little ahead of inflation, don'cha think?
I'd love to know more about this trend (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'd love to know more about this trend (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'd love to know more about this trend (Score:2)
Re:I'd love to know more about this trend (Score:2)
What kind of bs is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is the article accurate? The settlement was just to "hide" the bundled software? There was no part indicating that the services offered to IE, Outlook, Media Player, etc by the OS have to be available to competitors, so that they can integrate and interoperate as seamlessly? No wonder 9 states dissented.
Re:What kind of bs is that? (Score:3, Funny)
I keep hearing Gollum in the back of my head "niccce MS...MS play niccccce with lovely PC industry, M-esssssss not try to be bad, no, no, MS be good...yessss, my precisousssss O-essssssss"
Still, I also don't see what's wrong with the article. I can't recall reading any news stories that didn't just give the one side anyway. Sometimes they'll throw the opposing views a bone. But this really didn't have any opposing views... it was just a little fluff piece about the availability of the SP and what it did. No big deal.
Re:What kind of bs is that? (Score:2)
Many of the services you mention (perhaps all?) are available for third party developers. As an example, I am writing this using Crazy Browser [crazybrowser.com] a web browser that uses the IE engine but has a different UI (blocks pop-ups, browser panes etc.). I know there are APIs (e.g. this one [microsoft.com]) to the Media Player that allows third parties to integrate it into their applications. I'm not sure about Outlook.
Contents (Score:4, Funny)
- Tools (1 Mb)
- Random Files just to keep anybody from even considering downloading this (132 Mb)
Data protection act (Score:5, Interesting)
Hiding them? Get rid of them! (Score:3, Interesting)
Gee, thanks for allowing me to hide the stuff M$, everyone likes having useless software that still takes up disk space and probably still loads DLLs into memory that they can't see. I want the ability to remove the stuff, not just hide it. If I wanted to just hide it, I just wouldn't look at it!
Re:Hiding them? Get rid of them! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hiding them? Get rid of them! (Score:3, Informative)
FAIR INDEED! AS IS... (Score:2)
Finally... (Score:4, Insightful)
Now here's the funny part. In my opinion Windows Media Player is freaking great. It's fast, it's not bloated, and it plays crap like MPEGs wonderfully. As a result, when I install a piece of software like (shudder) RealPlayer or Quicktime or (oddly enough) the new Winamp that tries to take all this back from WMP, it annoys me quite a bit. This lets me easily switch back to WMP. Same goes for IE, though rival browsers are better about that.
Also, for those of you who have problems wherein the Sun Java VM won't run certian things that the Microsoft Java VM will and vice versa (oh, the irony...) then you'll love the feature where you can chose which Java VM to use. I wonder if this will help or hurt Java in the long run...
Re:Finally... (Score:2)
How mmany of the media player components are preloaded therefore making it appear to start and load faster? How many other MS applications must be installed for Media Player to work correctly? I don't know the answer but I do know this effect hinders quite a few applications that compete with MS products. This is the main reason that people are not happy with simply "hiding" an MS application, they want to get rid of it completely and free up some system resources for other things. Open Office and K-Meleon are two examples of products that offer preloading to speed things up. If you could remove the unused MS preloading the effect could be two-fold.
it's not bloated
Depends on what you are using it for. If it was the ONLY video, audio, and whatever else player you planned on using then maybe. It may stack up to a comparable size of like third party applications that performed the same fuctions.
Re:Finally... (Score:2)
Re:Finally... (Score:2)
REGEDIT4
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\AudioCD\sh
@="C:\\WINNT\\system32\\cdplayer.
Save it, rename it from
Double-click the file, let it update the registry. That's it.
If your OS is not in C:\winnt\, just change that part.
What happened to? (Score:2)
Oh, yeah, thats right, that was back when they had OS/2 to kick around, which handled multiple applications per file type much better than Windows, and that was the promised hope.
The concept that here is a file of a certain type, and you have the following programs that say they can handle it, which one would you like to open, with this one as a default?
The fight over file types in Windows is more about control of the user by the corporations involved than any thing else.
Re:Finally... (Score:2)
I've tried WMP several times, including the latest, and I find this statement above to be the complete opposite of my experience. Compared to WinAmp 2.x, it is slow as FUCK loading MP3 playlists and playing, and I get a ton of snap/crackle/pop while listening to MP3's, which I attribute to the increased CPU load that WMP places on my system.
Then again, I "only" have a 1Ghz system with 400MB RAM!
The only thing I use WMP for now is playing non-quicktime movies and burning audio CD's from playlists (in windows xp).
Yet when I try to use windows update with Mozilla: (Score:2, Interesting)
Thank you for your interest in Windows Update
Windows Update is the online extension of Windows that helps you get the most out of your computer.
You need to be running a version of Internet Explorer 5 or higher in order to use Windows Update.
Download the latest version of Internet Explorer
Once Internet Explorer is installed, you can go to the Windows Update site by typing http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com into the address bar of Internet Explorer.
Re:Yet when I try to use windows update with Mozil (Score:2)
As far as I know, this is because Windows Update runs an applet on your PC to see what patches you already have installed, and needs MSIE to run this code.
Who knew the sign that someone was a total geek (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean, under any standard EULA, they can still reformat your hard drive, install other apps, delete files, etc etc etc all under the "not responsible for anything" clause. It's all just CYA. The new stuff just there to cover their asses if you sign up for Windows Update or want Windows Media Player to automatically download codecs.
Complain about Microsoft having DRM on by default when you rip CDs. Complain about how XP bugs you to sign up for Passport all the time. Complain about all the security holes. Complain about the oppresive activation stuff.
Hell, complain about the whole concept of EULAs if you want.
There are tons of things to complain about. When Microsoft starts arbitrary installing stuff without asking, complain about that. But this Slashdot obsession with a few frickin' changes in Microsoft's EULA is the biggest sign yet that you people need to GET A LIFE!
Whither Windows Update? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Whither Windows Update? (Score:2)
Re:Whither Windows Update? (Score:2)
I'm using Win2K at the moment (I'm at work), and I downloaded SP3 which also gives this option. However, after reading your post, I clicked the Windows Update item in the Start menu, and lo and behold, IE popped up.
I use SuSE at home, and being a relatively new Linux user, I really appreciate the YaST update system available, which updates various essential and non-essential software. One imagines this would be welcome by the majority of Windows users.
Re:Whither Windows Update? (Score:2)
BBC : The best news on the web (Score:2, Insightful)
133MB (Score:2, Troll)
I've been online too long... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:133MB (Score:3, Funny)
Try to restrain your MS bashing for just one minute.
The problem is bigger .. (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, I really believe the problem is not in simply giving out peices of software with their operating system, it is more deep.
They can give as much programs with their system as they like, but they should build it WELL. Windows lacks all these programers who give there time free to recheck the code and add to it, this is what makes Open source powerful.
Well, my main point here is, what kind of people would accept 'hiding' the software as 'not giving out' the software. This is nonesense in my opinion. Well whether they allow you to download it freely, give it to you directly, or hide it doesn't make a difference. Other compitiors should find something better in their services so people usually get to download it, and well, they usually do!
The main problem with this software is that we don't know what's there, we pay the money and we don't get but the surface. Who would accept a house built for him without knowing what substance was used to build it, nobody. We still don't know much about windows source code. We can't find the bugs they produce with their rush in building more.
Another small point I'd like to mention, the best way to fight the Microsoft syndrome isn't law (the way it's going on now), but users. If everybody still buys windows, everybody always usees it, then it's *clearly* gonna have a monopoly, but if we can use, or develop, systems that none-geeks can use, systems directed to the masses, and still NOT monopolized, then we will be able to KILL Microsoft's lust.
Well, so let's all format C: for now ;) (if we have one)
I don't see the story. (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't try and pin a halo on Microsoft, it doesn't advocate them. It just says that they've complied with part of the DoJ bargain, and SP1 ships Sept 9th.
IMO, saying that MS is now 'more fair', reinforces that they've been completely unfair in the past. In that sense, it's a slam more than a boost.
Its just a blurb, theres not enough room to be one-sided. There's not enough to even quote.
Is it that any news item about computers that doesn't rant about 'MS world domination conspiracy theories' like a homeless schizophrenic is one-sided?
Re:I don't see the story. (Score:2, Informative)
When I RTFA, it seemed to suggest that Microsoft has made major concessions to the world's anti-monopoly bodies by removing a few icons from the desktop and start menu, and that MS is now a much nicer company, having given in to the little people.
The problem there is that most people assume that if the icon's not there, neither is the program. Not everyone's as tech-savvy as the average
Mainstream media educates the public, and it'd be good to get mainstream media to understand the issues and technology involved (don't forget, the writers at the BBC are professional _writers_, not coders).
If you think this 'change' has been misrepresented to Joe Public, mail the BBC [mailto] and let them know what's up. You can't fault them for not knowing everything, but you can let them know where _you_ think they've got it wrong.
btw, please be nice - this bunch are usually good enough to have a real person reply to your comments. Show a little respect for people doing something right
Don't be too harsh (Score:5, Insightful)
As a community, we need to do a better job of educating those around us. Quickly and loudly issuing press releases and the like to respond to the PR campaign of slimeballs. At very least, we need to talk to friends and family who are not tech savy and explain on a basic level what's going on.
Security loopholes? (Score:3, Funny)
What the hell is a security loophole? Is that when a hacker can root a system based soley on political red tape?
"You have to give me the administrator password because according to section F paragraph 18 of the EULA..."
XPSP1 already hacked (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.trwxp.kit.net/xp_sp1.html
Also, a download for SP1:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler
This thing is a fucking pig... 137MB.. Woah! Lots of bugs...er..features fixed here.
Re:XPSP1 already hacked (Score:3, Funny)
Heh - that's irony. Installing warezed service packs to patch security holes.
Where's the Evidence? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's your problem? Do you expect a professional news organization to adopt the posture of a place like
Curious to see evidence of their "trend of giving you only half the story..".
Re:Where's the Evidence? (Score:2, Insightful)
The title of the article is "Windows plays fair with rivals". Sounds like an opinion to me.
Re:Where's the Evidence? (Score:2)
Re:Where's the Evidence? (Score:2)
Re:Where's the Evidence? (Score:2)
News organization are not morally or ethically compelled to cover everything, all the time.
My legal copy? (Score:2, Interesting)
Activation is just DivX warmed over. I have no intention of submitting to it.
Re:My legal copy? (Score:3, Interesting)
That's a pretty lousey reason. Activation takes thirty seconds and doesn't require personal information.
Microsoft has the right to protect their copyrights. Something like 80% of all windows copies ever purchased (OEMs excluded) were installed on more than one machine.
Anyone who's tried it... (Score:2)
Re:Anyone who's tried it... (Score:2, Interesting)
I think this is hardly to blame on Microsoft. They're not responsible for other people's programs and the APIs they use, obviously.
half the story? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes that's why I come to slashdot.org, for pure unbiased reviews of windows! *snicker*
This /. item is utter, utter crap (Score:5, Informative)
The item could have gone into more detail but what it does say is pretty straight-down-the-line factual and is not "half the story" as the poster claimed. Sure, there's no mention of EULA changes but, since they're not legally binding anyway who gives a toss? It's only a small piece, not the history of Windows!
TWW
A more realistic question (Score:5, Interesting)
I've asked this many times of many, and I've never received any response other than a shrug.
Re:A more realistic question (Score:4, Interesting)
Besides, Microsoft is going to keep doing what they want until they get smacked down, and it hasn't happened yet.
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2)
However, Microsoft could clame that the minor is not leagaly entiled to instal the software as they are unable to agree to the licence terms.
So if this is what happened, until an adult aggreas to the licence no one cane use the software
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2)
2nd problem: In the US: When congress passed the law making digital signatures legally binding, it didn't define the term. Is clicking on a button the same as signing a contract? There are clear differences, e.g., there is no indication as to who clicked the button. But it might be, because the term is undefined.
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2)
Nobody (including Microsoft) cares wether some adult breaks the EULA in this or that way.
Now what Microsoft DOES care about is that they have the permission to install DRM on your computer.
The EULA is just a slightest hint what the operating system will do in the future, no matter what you think about it or what you do or wether a minor installed it or not.
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2, Funny)
to click on EULAs
Re:A more realistic question (Score:4, Insightful)
And if my employer isn't going to indemnify me, isn't it reasonable for me to refuse to use software whose EULA I don't like? After all, why should I expose myself to liability? Even if I was always careful to try and follow the EULA, the mere act of defending myself against a suit would almost certainly bankrupt me. It is far from reasonable for an employer to require me to enter into contracts which expose me personally to liability instead of the corporation as a whole.
Re:A more realistic question (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2)
Shoe feels funny on the other foot, eh?
Re:A more realistic question (Score:2)
The GPL does not give anybody any *rights*. It it may give license or privledge, but not rights.
Re:British journalism sucks (Score:2)
Re:BBC's bias (Score:2)
And, in the UK just as elsewhere, almost all their readers, listeners and viewers live in a Microsoft world. Why go off an a tangent about EULA's when it is a credible assumption that's of interest to only a tiny fraction of their audience.?
No news organization can, or even needs to attempt to, provide every possible countervailing thread in every single news piece they release. If the BBC's selection of news offends you, go elsewhere.
Re:BBC's bias (Score:2)
Actually, I'm British, but I reckon America got it right on most of the above.
I can see my karma dissipating before my eyes.
Re:133MB update ??? (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, my 0.9x slackware was lighter !
But it didn't have anti-piracy features!
Re:A bit of research is in order ? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So, Is SP1 out? (Score:3, Informative)
If you look around on the Microsoft site, you'll find that there's a "network install" (or similar) version of the service pack, that's the entire thing in one file. It's designed for sites that may have a variety of different configurations installed, so they can essentially mirror it locally. 133meg sounds about right for that sort of service pack (the Windows 2000 ones have generally been around the 100+meg mark).
Cheers,
Tim
Re:Norman Mailer "remembers" 9/11! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just after "upgrade" (Score:3, Insightful)
It is possible that future reboots may be slower because your HD has becomed fragged since the initial install and the replacement components are now spread out over your disk. Run the defragger and have it organise programs for quick start and you will be back in the pink.
Even a little knowledge can be used as a shining light to scare back the monsters of the unknown. Feel free to carry a candle of knowledge wherever you go.