Microsoft Opts-In Hotmail Users 704
medeii writes "East Side Journal reports that without telling anyone, Microsoft has suddenly changed the privacy preferences for all Hotmail users. They're now sharing your name and other personal information with third parties, even if you said you didn't want that when you signed up. (If you're a user, login, go to Options > Personal Profile, and un-check the boxes at the bottom of that page.)" The same reporter has written a follow-up article today.
You think that's bad? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mozilla users can't access Options->Personal Profile to opt out.
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you got to Help, there a link at the bottom to send comments. Select "other" from there so that you can actually put in your comment.
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
I got all panicky and changed my preferences. Then I figured, if they're (obviously) not going to protect my privacy, why give away personal information?
So, thinking my birth-year information matters (it does to me) I put a bogus "1999" in the appropriate place. What resulted was an endless loop of the silly system asking "Is your parent there with you? [Yes] [No]" in a Microsoft
When I clicked "Yes", it asked for Passport login info. (I only have one Passport account). When I clicked "No" it asked for my name and my parents e-mail address. In other words, I'm now LOCKED out of an account I've had for four years!
Now what e-mail address am I going to use to register with at spam-bombers, like 1-800-FLOWERS.com or ILLUMINATIONS.com or IMSI.com? Or what about when bots no longer find my hotmail.com address at InterNIC? Will I miss all that spam?
(Yes, I got blocked the first attempt, too, using Konqueror; Switched to NS 4.78
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this even legal? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry to ask the obvious question, but since IANAL, I'd be interested to know. If you have explicitly said you don't want a company to reveal your private details, can they legally change your mind for you? I realise that blanket statements about changing Ts&Cs without notice might apply to services like Hotmail, but that doesn't necessarily make them legal either. I would have expected this to fall foul of data protection legislation, at least in most European countries.
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:4, Interesting)
Netscape navigator 4.08 or later is supported, but not my Mozilla 0.99? a step backward? or basically just not going to be friendly towards open source?
this sucks.
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, they weren't found guilty of trying to run Mozilla out of business, just Netscape. I'm sure they're sensitive to charges that they are deliberately breaking compatibility with Netscape. But they're free to crush everyone else.
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:3, Informative)
I presume most people here run websites. Many people have privacy policies (or other such useful but non-vital information) and PHP/Perl is pretty standard.
Put the following code on your privacy policy page:
<?php
if (index(getenv("USER_AGENT"),"MSIE")>0)
{
echo "<p>We have detected you are using a non-standard browser which may not display this page properly. Please upgrade to Galeon 0.2 or later, Mozilla 0.9 or later, or any version of Netscape Navigator</p>";
}
else
{
/* Put your website's privacy policy here */
}
?>
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:2, Informative)
I could go on-and-on about how retarded, backwards, non-standards compliant this is but... it's microsoft. Go Figure.
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:2)
btw, does anyone know if their is a user-agent spoofing feature in galeon? or when they plan to add one.
I wonder if the MS web site accepts Space Bison? (Score:3, Informative)
Proxomitron [proxomitron.org], the ad blocker software, can identify any browser you have as anything you like. The default is Space Bison. (Unfortunately, I don't think there is a Linux version.)
Re:I wonder if the MS web site accepts Space Bison (Score:3, Informative)
Today's star feature: personal information sharing (Score:2, Funny)
...now that's innovation...
...Microsoft® Innovation (TM)
Tried a few with Opera (Score:4, Informative)
Identify as Mozilla 5.0: dont work
Identify as Mozilla 4.76: Works
Identify as Mozilla 3.0: dont work
Identify as MSIE 5.0: Works(duh!)
Yet, in Opera, all the pages are rendered the same way, and all pages in hotmail work fine in Opera assuming you identify it as a 'preferred browser'. So, its not a functionality issue, just a "use our damn browser or else" issue. A DDoS attack from MSN to non-IE users? hehe
It's really about MS Passport (Score:2, Interesting)
Having said this, this has more to do with Microsoft Passport than Microsoft. I've actually been evaluating Passport as an optional authentication method on a current project, and one of the features that it offers is that upon authentication partners can get the basic user information (such as what they state on their site when you look at what "other registration info lists") for the purpose of making it easier for the user to complete orders, etc. It's unfortunate that they hijacked Hotmail to begin this, and the preference should start and not (perhaps even terminating your account if you refuse to allow it, but certainly not automatically doing it), however that's the whole purpose of Passport : To give users one username and password, and to allow them an easier experience on the net. You can see the details at http://www.microsoft.com/myservices/passport/over
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
I just turned those options off, then signed out. I logged back in to see if they had taken effect and found that -every- time you go into options, those boxes are automatically checked.
So beware, any time you change/view your options you need to uncheck the boxes again...
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:2)
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:3, Interesting)
What amounts to you having no rights, though, is that you probably clicked through an agreement in order to activate the account that said microsoft is free to change the terms and conditions of the account at any time, without notice. It's fucked up, and totally unethical, but borderline legal -- what else would you expect from Microsoft?
Re:You think that's bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
The worst part about IE being sloppy in what it accepts is that HTML authors who preview their page don't even get to find out that something is wrong.
damn that does kill the doctrine
"be generous in the data you accept but strict on the data you hand out"
It should be an option in IE to report all non-conforming HTML
and here's from mozilla (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft®
Great, now MS 0wnz m3 and my little browser, too.
Re:and here's from mozilla (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:and here's from mozilla (Score:2, Insightful)
First Name
Andrew
Your lastname contains a word or phrase that has been reserved or is prohibited for
registration. Please type a different lastname.
Last Name
Bugg
I am really glad i can't use my own damned last name with
A Bugg
Bugg Prohibited? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:and here's from mozilla (Score:4, Funny)
Best sign in properly next time, hmm?
Easy (Score:3, Funny)
Obviously, they saw the fnord.
Surprise! (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, come on, this is Micro$oft we are talking about here... marketing, marketing, marketing!
Besides, Yahoo led the way, did they not? I would not be surprised to find out that Microsoft watched that whole Yahoo business very closely, and saw the complete lack of any outcry as a "green light" to go forward with this.
Re:Surprise! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Surprise! (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, there's outcry and there's outcry.
I had been using Yahoo email for a long time, and was planning to pay for the service since it was useful. Because of their change, I sent a letter to Yahoo indicating why I would not pay for the service, and am now using a new address.
My yahoo address is still open, however, so I can catch the stragglers that haven't caught up yet. So from a superficial (number of users pov), yes, it appears that this didn't affect their business, but what you don't know is how many people like me changed their mind about paying for the service, or the trust that they had placed in Yahoo.
The future will tell if the same thing happens with Microsoft. I don't have a hotmail address because I knew better than to trust Microsoft, but a lot of people didn't. The question isn't really (like Yahoo) whether this will cost them hotmail addresses, but whether this will cost them $ in future service offerings like the larger mailboxes.
Re:Surprise! (Score:2, Interesting)
Trust. . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
they can spend all of the money that they want making their software better and better (hey, Win2K does indeed rock. Heh.
keep pissing people off and they will lose customers faster then 'software security audits' up to hell will gain them customers.
(oh yah, and not making each OS more and more bleeping 'beautified' would be nice as well, I swear, if I wanted a pretty-boy interface I would've bought a mac!)
::hopes somebody hurries up and forces McNeel software to port Rhino3d to other x86 platforms. Is willing to provide crowbar to volenteer 'encourages' if necessary::
Funny, (Score:4, Insightful)
Switch to myrealbox.com (Score:2, Informative)
this makes sense (Score:2)
What? Microsoft owns them? Their chairman is the richest man in the world? Well then, I guess there isn't much of an excuse to defraud customers, unless of course that is the way you become a hugely successful company...
Privacy Subscription? (Score:3, Interesting)
Shouldn't privacy be a default thing to respect? Why should I have to constantly defend it?
Can I charge for infringment of my privacy? (like charging for spam?)
"To request your privacy options, tell us your life history. We want to make sure it's you, before we consider granting you temporary privacy."
If you do not allow us to use up bandwidth sending you stuff you do not want then you should pay us for lost revenues.
New TOS? (Score:5, Interesting)
The following is quoted from their TOS:
The MSN Web Sites are offered to you conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms, conditions, and notices contained herein. Your use of the MSN Web Sites constitutes your agreement to all such terms, conditions, and notices. Your use of a particular MSN Web Site included within the MSN Web Sites may also be subject to additional terms outlined elsewhere in this agreement (the "Additional Terms"). To go directly to any of the Additional Terms, click on the link below:
Carpoint
GamingZone
MSN Health
MSN Money
HomeAdvisor
MSN Hotmail
Encarta Online
MSN Mobile
MSN Music
MSN Shopping (eShop)
MSNBC
Auctions
MSN Photos
Additionally, the MSN Web Sites may themselves contain additional terms, codes of conduct or guidelines that govern use of those sites, including without limitation, particular features or offers (for example, sweepstakes or chat areas).
WTF? (Score:2)
Browser Not Supported
Microsoft®
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
People should get vanity email addresses (Score:3, Redundant)
It really is worth the money to own a domain and get an email address that no one can fsck with.
Benefits:
Not based on your ISP
No privacy issues
Multiple email accounts for different purposes
Can utilize forwarding to webmail
Re:People should get vanity email addresses (Score:2)
Except, of course, that you need to give a contact address to get a domain, which ends up being available to anyone who knows how to use whois. And you have to give out personal information to a registrar, who might turn right around and sell that info to any number of lists (i.e. what Network Solutions decided to do).
Re:People should get vanity email addresses (Score:2)
So get a PO Box, and check it once a year...
Oh, just an oversight.. (Score:4, Interesting)
If the story hits big, and big media starts questioning the practice, MS will claim that it was a programing error, it was changed but they actually have no plans to really share that data, or it was strictly an "accident" in preparing for some upcoming vapor feature they planned on adding or testing. Sorry..
If it doesnt hit big the plan will stay put and 99.9% of the users will never know.
Another reason I always use completely bogus information for these registration things.
Fake Info! (Score:3, Insightful)
How hard is it to find a zip code!
Would you ever knowingly provide Bill with your details?
This is nothing like Yahoo (Score:2)
"As a Hotmail member, you have received this e-mail to inform you of new services. Our policy has always been to send e-mail messages only to announce such information, and we'll continue to honor this policy. Thank you for being a Hotmail member."
The affects Passport, not Hotmail per se (Score:2)
Same diff, Microsoft is sending your email address places you probably don't want it going, but users should be aware that this is probably pervasive in any Passport service they use, such as MSN messenger (may want to go and check the options on it if you use it).
Passport profile (Score:2)
Kinda reminds me of a MS developer mailing list I accidently got subscribed to. I tried to unsubscribe, but to do that I needed a passport profile. So in order to stop getting one anoying mailing list I would have had to give away my info which would be freely distributed among all the marketing companies sleeping with Microsoft.
Re:Passport profile (Score:5, Funny)
Kinda reminds me of a MS developer mailing list I accidently got subscribed to. I tried to unsubscribe
Easy solution: set up an out of office message for that list. Every message from the list gets quoted and sent back to the list with some tag like 'Hey look! I don't know how to use my mail client!'. You'll be unsubscribed within the day.
Actually this is good news... (Score:2)
I know stuff like this only solidifies a conviction to non-MS computer base...someday it'll be hard as diamonds.
Microsoft-Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
P.S. The options with "Share my other registration information" has this text:
"This information, which is stored in your Microsoft®
Birth Date
Country/Region
State/Territory
Gender
Ac
Time Zone
Occupation"
This means that whatever fake information I put in Hotmail would be used for all other sites? No Way!
Do you uh, Yahoo? (Score:2)
Always assume the worst (Score:4, Insightful)
Either don't give them any true or useful information or don't give them any information at all. Leave footprints like misspelling your own name in a very unique way. Track it and complain complain complain when you find them out. cc a copy of your complaint to your state attorney general's office.
Holy cow... (Score:2)
Not true for me (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, this post will probably get buried under the avalanche of people who want to believe the article.
The Actual text (Score:4, Informative)
Choose how much of your
_ Share my e-mail address.
_ Share my first and last names.
_ Share my other registration information.
Tell me more about
FWIW, when I checked my user profile, all three of the options were unchecked.
oh this is beautiful (Score:5, Funny)
Well i guess their servers are too busy selling my information right now.
I should try later.
Is anyone getting this? (Score:2)
Other things I love about hotmail (Score:5, Informative)
- Account sizes started at 10 MB. Hotmail recently reduced them to 2 MB.
- Hotmail constantly sends me reminders that I can get my 10MB of storage back by paying them a monthly fee. Great...
- Those same reminders generally come as part of a message that says, in effect, "Your account is almost full. We'll send you another message to add to the total so you fill up even faster. By doing this, we can clearly demonstrate why you need a larger account. Pay us now.
- I can get 500 messages from a single address with an identical subject and message body. Fun, now my account fills up even faster. (I sent suggestions on how to prevent this. The information was supposedly passed along to the dev team. Who knows...)
- I can sign up for a new account and within hours, I'm receiving spam. Dang, now that's some added value, not to mention adding to the need for more storage.
- Obvious bulk mail goes into my junk folder. Nice, except that my junk folder contributes to my total space used and isn't purged automagically if more space is needed. There isn't even an option to do this. (Sigh, I need more space again. Maybe they'll send me another advert so I can sign up..)
- And more and more of my favorite things about hotmail. Isn't it just nifty?
arg!!!!Re:Other things I love about hotmail (Score:3, Interesting)
Go to Options --> Junk mail deletion and you can choose to send it to
But seriously, I don't see why anyone should need more than 2Mb of space in a free email account. I use free email accounts only when I don't trust the person I'm giving the address to to not spam me (but when I need to give an email address to get a confirmation code, etc.)
My hotmail account has almost never been over 1Mb. If you're using it to store important email, you should either look into downloading your email using a POP3 client or seriously consider getting a real email provider.
\end{rant}
Re:Other things I love about hotmail (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Other things I love about hotmail (Score:3, Insightful)
...and how easy is it to set one up for those of us who own our own domain?
I've given out a couple of email addresses on my domain to family, but there's still no way they can configure passwords on their own. I saw a package which lets you run a yahoo-like web email service (skinnable interface, optional POP collection, etc) but that's £500 (and obviously I can't run it on a size-limited hosted webserver)
Plenty of us have got domains we can use, the question is whether it's possible (or easy) to use them for limited web-based email accounts.
Here are a few of my favorite things! (Score:3, Funny)
Popups and opt-outs and priv'cy violations
Big boobs and sleep pills and herbal ginsengs,
This is the junk that my Hotmail box brings
Fake "" tags, disable Java,
Disable plugins from Macromedia
Limit the things that your browser can do,
This is the junk hotmail forces on you
When the dot nets,
When the hail storms,
When the passport pries,
I simply sign up for more hotmail accounts
And continue to falsify
ActiveX scripting and ASP pages
Profiteeting in which hotmail engages,
Exploiting users who don't have a clue,
This is what people at Microsoft do
Bending o'er backwards to meets terms of service,
Changing agreements that made me feel nervous
Clauses, execptions will bite you some day,
This legal mumbo has pushed me away
When the terms change,
When the box's checked,
It's my Waterloo
I'll never sign up for more hotmail accounts
From now on I'll use...
Netscape mail!
Re:Other things I love about hotmail (Score:3, Interesting)
Why do people use these services? (Score:2)
MSFT is constantly proving they are nothing but a bunch of uncle f^c&er$. -Terrance and Phillip
Riddle me this... (3 of 4 accounts affected) (Score:3, Informative)
OK, I've got four HotMail accounts. For the first three, the options had been changed and I reset them to opt-out. When I got to the fourth account, which I set up about three weeks ago and have NEVER sent a message from, my options indicated that none of my info was to be public. However, there were 171 SPAMs waiting for me, starting just a few hours after the "Welcome to HotMail" message. Apparently, they released my new e-mail address to the wild the instant it was created, making any decision of mine to opt-out a moot point. Once it's out there, you're screwed.
!There is another explaination! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:!There is another explaination! (Score:2)
DoS: Everyone sign up for a dozen hotmail accounts (Score:5, Interesting)
I hate to be the one to call for this, however it's just as legal as what they're doing. It's no the moral thing to do but it is legal. It's time to do something all you little
Use Hotmail as a Spam Trap (Score:5, Interesting)
I say bring em' on! I'm happy to waste MS's bandwith, and glad to help keep the spam databases current, so those of us running Spamassassin [spamassassin.org] can keep our real email accounts clean.
Why use Hotmail anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
It's got to be the worst free email service on the Net when it comes to reliability, security, spam and superfluous fluff associated with your mail.
When I discovered how much simpler and cleaner YahooMail was I ditched my HotMail account and never regretted it for a moment.
Okay, Yahoo may still change your marketing preferences, but at least they had the decency to let you know about it and give you a chance to reverse the changes before adding you to a long list of lists.
However, the best thing of all about YahooMail is that I get an incredibly small amount of spam arriving in my yahoomail email box.
Either their spam filtering is far more effective, or spammers consider Hotmail user to be dumber (and therefore more likely to believe that you can earn $50,000 a month stuffing envelopes).
I also get a 6MB mailbox for free (perhaps because I was an early adopter -- I don't think they're quite as generous for new signups) and the service seems very reliable.
With my Javascript turned off I don't even see the pop-up ads that can be such a PITA when browsing Yahoo's properties.
Yahoo may be far from perfect but it's a whole lot better than Hotmail that's an absolute undeniable fact.
...Continue Using Hotmail... (Score:2, Interesting)
So, I guess that's my moral to the story... don't just use these services... USE them. Everyone that asks for your demographic info is giving you the opportunity to make ALL of that database less valid and less useful. This really is an opportunity.
They Changed my State and Zip, Too! (Score:2, Interesting)
Time to find an alternative (Score:2)
People don't trust Microsoft... (Score:2, Funny)
Not because Windows XP forces you to call Microsoft to "register" it if you buy a new motherboard?
Not because Outlook and Outlook Express open attachments and install viruses, worms, and trojans FOR you?
Not because Microsoft voids your software's license because you "installed it too many times"?
Not because Media Player was shipped with spyware in it?
Not because Microsoft is forcing ridiculous licensing schemes onto educational institutions?
Not because Microsoft treats their users like babies and thinks that they know better than you what you want to do with your computer?
Not because they got rid of Clippy from MS Office?
Not because they bullied OEMs to install ONLY Microsoft operating environments?
Good grief... If THIS is what it takes to drive people over the edge, they shoulda went with writing a new "we 0wNz your house, car, wife, and kids" clause in their EULA.
Shouldn't that be.... (Score:5, Funny)
Shouldn't that read something like...
"If you're a user, then the preference to change is your email provider."
-Restil
in which I attempt to delete my hotmail account... (Score:5, Informative)
I obfuscated the names because I have nothing against the people who responded (or didn't respond, depending on your point of view) to my request. Their replies were slightly mechanistic, and it is clear (to me, yvmv) that Microsoft has no intention of giving up the information I provided to open my hotmail account. But I planned for this day, so any junk mail Microsoft may have signed "me" up for, using the name and address I generously provided, is being forwarded to the dead letters office in Leesville, Louisiana. Yeeha.
This latest move comes as no surprise, really. I can't imagine Redmond respects my privacy any more than Yahoo!, Egghead, or any one of a dozen other defunct dot coms...
===== BEGIN =====
Excellent. That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I intend to close my account presently. I will attempt to log in to hotmail in 100 days. If that attempt succeeds, I will contact you then.
From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
To:
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:23:03 -0800
Hello mephistopheles51@hotmail.com, .NET Passport.
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
Thank you for writing to Microsoft
In response to your inquiry, I would just like to reiterate that your Hotmail account is an automatic Passport account as well. Therefore, if you close your Hotmail account, your Passport account will also be cancelled.
I hope I was able to help you.
Thank you for your patience.
Sincerely,
Pi.
Microsoft
--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
From: mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
To: "Microsoft
Sent: Tue Feb 26 19:40:25 PST 2002
Subject: RE: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
Finally, someone actually *read* my question. After receiving the exact same response twice in a row I was becoming concerned that there was no human being on the other end of the computer at all, but a machine, which was parsing the question and appending the appropriate "solution". To rephrase your reply: if I close my hotmail account, and DO NOT USE MY PASSPORT FOR 90 DAYS, all information provided to or collected by Microsoft will be automatically deleted, including any information provided to marketers, advertisers, or any of Microsoft's "partners". If you respond affirmatively, I will close my hotmail account and expect that the non-public information provided to Microsoft by me will be deleted as above, following 90 days of inactivity. If you must respond negatively, please forward my question to someone who will guarantee that the non-public information provided to Microsoft by me will be deleted as above, or who will state, for the record, that it simply cannot (or will not) be done prior to responding. I should like a name in the latter case. In either case, if I have not heard from a representative of hotmail or passport in three days, I will take this matter up again. I eagerly await your reply.
Thank you.
>From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
.NET Passport.
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
>To:
>Subject: RE: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:02:00 -0800
>
>Hello Mephistopheles51,
> Thank you for writing to Microsoft
> Regarding your inquiry, Email services of Hotmail Passport IDs are
>automatically deactivated after 30 days of inactivity. After such time,
>your Hotmail Passport will cease to be an email account but you can still
>continue using the ID on other Participating Passport sites.
> Should you wish to have your Passport ID purged from our system, please
>refrain from accessing the account for 90 days. Accounts are automatically
>removed from our system only after the specified period of inactivity.
> I hope I was able to answer your question, if you have other inquiries,
>please do not hesitate to write us back.
>
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Je.
>Microsoft
>
>--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
>From: mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
>To: "Microsoft
>Sent: Mon Feb 25 19:00:23 PST 2002
>Subject: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
>
>I'm afraid you don't understand, as previously explained.
> I want to delete my "passport", thereby deleting all information provided to
>or collected by Microsoft, and not just my hotmail account. As indicated by
>the recent memorandum from Bill Gates, it appears Microsoft has finally
>realized that it must earn users' trust. This is a step in the right
>direction. Users are not a cash machine for any corporation that decides to
>abuse its monopoly status for the benefit of the marketing and advertising
>departments of its many "partners".
> However, the recent attacks on hotmail, and the vulnerabilities in
>Microsoft's ".net" and "passport" services have convinced me that none of
>the information I provided to Microsoft is truly secure, not even my name,
>address, or IP, and that Microsoft cannot be trusted not to use the
>information provided or collected for its own gain, and to my detriment.
>Therefore, I would like to delete all information I provided to Microsoft,
>or which has been collected by Microsoft about me, in its entirety.
> Please tell me how to do that, or direct my inquiry to someone who can.
>Merely deleting my hotmail account simply will not suffice. Thank you.
> >From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
.NET Passport.
.NET Passport site (such as Messenger or eShop) for
.NET Passport for a full 90 days. In
.NET Passport
.NET Passport has comprehensive online help available to you.
.NET Passport or help with Microsoft
.NET Passport
.NET Passport help topics.
.NET Passport. If you have further questions,
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
> >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:21:11 -0800
> >
> >Hello Mephistopheles51,
> >
> >
> >Thank you for writing back to Microsoft
> >
> >With regard to your concern, please be guided on the procedures of deleting
> >your mephistopheles51@hotmail.com account.
> >
> > >>> To close your Hotmail account
> >
> >1. In the upper right corner of any Hotmail page, click "Help".
> >
> >2. In the MSN Hotmail Help window, click "Find", type "Close account", and
> >then click "Go".
> >
> >3. In the search results, click the "Close your Hotmail account" link. 4.
> >Follow the instructions to close your account.
> >
> >You can also close your Hotmail account by not signing in to the account
> >for 30 days or within the first 10 days after you set up your account.
> >Hotmail then marks your account as "Inactive", your stored messages are
> >permanently deleted, and inbound messages are returned to the sender. You
> >can reactivate your account by going to the sign-in page and typing your
> >sign-in name and password. If your account remains "Inactive" for 90 days,
> >Hotmail permanently deletes it. You cannot reactivate your deleted account
> >because it has been completely removed from our system. You must register
> >for a new one.
> >
> >Note: If you want to permanently close your Hotmail account, do not sign in
> >to Hotmail or any other
> >which you use your user@hotmail.com
> >addition, if your Hotmail account is closed, your hotmail.com
> >is also closed.
> > Microsoft
> >For more information about Microsoft
> >.NET Passport features, click the Help link on a Microsoft
> >web page. When the help window opens, click the appropriate topic, or click
> >the All Topics link at the top of the help window for a categorized list of
> >all Microsoft
> >
> >Thank you for using Microsoft
> >please reply to this e-mail message.
> >
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Lo.
> >Microsoft
> >
> >--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
> >From: mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
> >To: "Microsoft
>
> >Sent: Fri Feb 22 17:35:47 PST 2002
> >Subject: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
> >
> >I'm afraid you don't understand. I want to delete my "passport". Microsoft
> >simply cannot be trusted with the information I provided, and cannot be
> >trusted not to attempt to collect more and more associative information to
> >be sold to its marketing and advertising "partners". I do not want any
> >information I provided to Microsoft to exist on Microsoft's servers at all.
> > The help page simply states that I will be closing my hotmail account, and
> >that after 90 days my hotmail account will be deleted, but that deletion of
> >my hotmail account will not affect my passport, and that I may reactivate my
> >hotmail account at any time within 90 days simply by signing in to hotmail.
> >This is not acceptable.
> > Please direct me to a link that will allow me to delete my passport, thus
> >removing all passport information collected by Microsoft.
> > As an aside, why do hotmail.msn.com, passport.com, and msn.com need 14
> >cookies between them? Don't you find that a little excessive? I certainly do.
> > Thank you!
> > >From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
.NET Passport.
.NET Passport account.
.NET Passport site (such as Messenger or eShop)
.NET Passport for a full 90 days.
.NET
.NET Passport has comprehensive online help available to you.
.NET Passport or help with Microsoft
.NET Passport
.NET Passport help topics.
.NET Passport. If you have further questions,
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
>
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:31:37 -0800
> > >
> > >Hello mephistopheles51,
> > >
> > >Thank you for writing to Microsoft
> > > In response to your concern, I have provided below the procedure on how
> > >to delete your mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
> > > >>> To close your Hotmail account
> > > 1. In the upper right corner of any Hotmail page, click "Help".
> > > 2. In the MSN Hotmail Help window, click "Find", type "Close account",
> > >and then click "Go".
> > > 3. In the search results, click the "Close your Hotmail account" link.
> >4.
> > >Follow the instructions to close your account.
> > > You can also close your Hotmail account by not signing in to the account
> > >for 30 days or within the first 10 days after you set up your account.
> > >Hotmail then marks your account as "Inactive", your stored messages are
> > >permanently deleted, and inbound messages are returned to the sender. You
> > >can reactivate your account by going to the sign-in page and typing your
> > >sign-in name and password. If your account remains "Inactive" for 90 days,
> > >Hotmail permanently deletes it. You cannot reactivate your deleted account
> > >because it has been completely removed from our system. You must register
> > >for a new one.
> > > Note: If you want to permanently close your Hotmail account, do not sign
> > >in to Hotmail or any other
> > >for which you use your user@hotmail.com
> > >In addition, if your Hotmail account is closed, your hotmail.com
> > >Passport is also closed.
> > > Microsoft
> > >For more information about Microsoft
> > >.NET Passport features, click the Help link on a Microsoft
> > >web page. When the help window opens, click the appropriate topic, or click
> > >the All Topics link at the top of the help window for a categorized list of
> > >all Microsoft
> > >
> > >Thank you for using Microsoft
> > >please reply to this e-mail message.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Ed.
> > >Microsoft
> > >
> > >--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
> > >From: no@alternate.com
> > >To: "Microsoft
> >
> > >Sent: Tue Feb 19 18:51:42 PST 2002
> > >Subject: delete my account
> > >
> > >CustomerName : don't need don't need
> > >UpdateCountry : false, false
> > >CUBirthdate : don't need
> > >BrowserVersion : don't need
> > >OperatingSystem : don't need
> > >ErrorMessage : n/a
> > >Submit : Send
> > >ContactEmailAddress : mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
> > >Country : US
> > >FirstName : don't need
> > >LastName : don't need
> > >Region : 19283
> > >PostalCode : don't need
> > >Comments : you don't need any of this information to delete my account
> > >RIGHT NOW.
> >
> >Don't Believe the Hype!*
> >*and it's all hype...
Straining the limits of analogy... (Score:3, Funny)
Is this M$'s Operation Footbullet? (Score:5, Interesting)
When the Church of $cientology began a few years ago to confront their critics on the Internet, some of the critics began to refer to their campaign as Operation Footbullet, because the Co$ simply blundered again and again in highly public fashion. Their corruption and outright craziness became more obvious than ever before to anyone who cared to look.
Has the Micro$oft Corporation been conducting its own Operation Footbullet? Up until about two or three years ago, much of this was ignored by the media and there was almost no awareness of their excesses in the general public. And of course many people still don't pay much attention to the software industry. But anyone who pays the least bit of attention is faced with a constant stream of reports about ruthlessness and frankly criminal behavior, a profound lack of respect for consumers and business partners, and a general stench of unethical behavior that can only be overpowered by Enron's awful stink. I suppose Enron is ahead of M$ on the scales of immorality, but nevertheless, M$ is risking going down in history as one of the greediest and most ruthless plutocrats since the the robber barons of the railroad and Standard Oil days -- and those are the ones who've held the record for over a hundred years!
Of course, some people will respond that I'm exaggerating. I'll probably even get modded as Flamebait or Troll. And indeed, it really is hard to state the case against Micro$oft without sounding like a zealot, because the accusations are simply so hair-raising, it's hard for the uninitiated to believe that they're all true (this is, in fact, what I used to think about the Church of $cientology). Judge Jackson should not have shot his mouth off the way he did, but who could blame the man, he probably just couldn't help himself. The awful fact is that M$ is one of the most appalling corporate gangsters in all of history.
It's a free service... (Score:5, Interesting)
- It's totally free
- They provide a huge pile of hardware, software and people to keep up the site and datastores.
- They don't want money in return
- Everything but the sun costs money
So you people think that MS is a philantropic organisation? ALWAYS ask yourself when something is 'free' and the provider of the service has to spent a lot of money to give you this service for 'free': "Where's the catch?". I find this moaning about Hotmail rather silly, if you ask me. If you don't like it, get a real ISP account. Yes that costs money, start wondering where that money's for.
Legality in the UK (Score:5, Informative)
In the UK we have an act called the 'Data Protection Act' which means any companies doing business in the UK are *obliged* to require our permission to do anything outside their company with our personal data we provide to them, and breaking these rules can be swiftly and harshly punished. In extreme cases, it can result in a business being shut down entirely.
Other fringe benefits include the right to demand a company never contacts you again, and the right to demand to see *all* information a company holds about you, so you can correct this information if it is incorrect.
Re:Legality in the UK (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder if they also responded truthfully to their country of origin, and MS simply didn't opt them in for this reason...
MigrateCookiesAcrossDomains (Score:3, Interesting)
I was just logging out after turning off those options that had magically been turned on when I noticed this URL go by in the address bar
fortunately, the system was being so slow that I had time to capture it. It looks as if the protections we are supposed to have about cookies not being sent to different domains mean nothing to Microsoft. No surprise there then.
Re:Boycott Hotmail (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, you DO all realize that there are TONS better providers out there that offer FREE e-mail, kick ass spam filters, tons of space, and far more features that Hotmail does, right?
FREE.
::sighs::
Guess not. . .
Hotmail is big, and, err, they are big. Did I mention that they are big?
Is that really all that good of a reason to choose your free e-mail provider? Because they are big? (actualy I think that it would be a rather piss poor reason. . .
I have met a ton of people who do not even realize that their ISP offers them free email accounts. . . .
Re:Boycott Hotmail (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Boycott Hotmail (Score:2)
I guess a lot of scumbag companies will be getting an entry for a centenarian named "Seymour Butts" in their marketing databases soon...
Tim
Re:Alternatives? (Score:5, Funny)
ok maybe they would, but you'd probably only getty pretty spam from them.
Re:Alternatives? (Score:2, Insightful)
Notice that I said "respectable."
Re:Alternatives? (Score:2)
Why don't you just spend US$12 a year (or whatever) and buy a Spamcop account. POP3, Webmail, forwarding, anti-virus and anti-spam. I still use my account there even though I've dropped my spam-magnet of an account at Yahoo and started masking my address using Sneakemail.
Re:This never would have happened (Score:2, Funny)
I'd be a whole lot richer if my employer didn't share my salary data with the IRS!
Re:Notice (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Notice (Score:2, Interesting)
Sometimes you have to give out your address. Or maybe you called a toll free number - guess what, your phone number is in the database.
In the case of a monopoly like Verizon, you're stuck. But there are other cases where you have a choice.
Re:Good strategy. (Score:5, Insightful)
For months they have been trying to get people to sign up with their Premium Email package which expands the mailbox to 10Mb and lasts forever (or something like that). People have not been signing up. It's simply too easy to create a brand new address when one fills up, so Microsoft then has to deal with 2 accounts (and so on and so on and so on) for each customer who has used up their allotted space.
Enter spam. If Microsoft can make it intolerable for ordinary users (non-Premier club members) to use Hotmail because the speed in which the account fills with spam is simply too fast, then they will push away those users who are not interested in paying for the service. Or they will attract the payers by making it intolerable to use the service otherwise.
Bottom line: They reduce the total traffic on their site by sloughing off the leeches (including yours truly), and increase revenue at the same time.
The idea is brilliant.
Re:'s odd.... (Score:2, Funny)
full text:
MSN® Hotmail® Tip of the Month
Be aggressive against spam
At Hotmail, we know spam is a chronic problem, and we are doing everything we can to help you keep spam out of your Inbox. That's why we developed the Junk Mail Filter. But there are other things you can do to decrease the amount of spam you receive.
Never respond to junk mail or follow an "unsubscribe" link, since this will only confirm that the spammers have a live address. Also, do not use your e-mail address when participating in chat rooms. Finally, you should carefully review a Web site's privacy policy when performing online activities such as shopping and banking, to ensure that your e-mail address will not be shared with a third party. Keep in mind that MSN does not sell, rent or lease its customer lists to third parties.
Still, I guess this was yesterday...
Re:Hotmail became unsuable long ago (Score:2, Interesting)
I just stopped checking my old Hotmail address regularly within the past month, then at all this week, because I was sick of all the spam I had to keep deleting (a quick login showed 87 in the last 4 days, and that's without having given out this address to anyone in years) and because my school address was in general much more reliable. I also got mine before M$ bought the company, and I distinctly remember them promising when they bought it that they would always keep Hotmail a free service.
Now, I'm not saying Hotmail isn't free anymore, because I've never paid a cent for it. But here's what they've done to allow that:
Given these steps, which have occurred at fairly regular intervals, does it surprise you at all that they've progressed on to this? I can only imagine that next they'll replace those check boxes with bulleted lists, so that you can't opt out unless you become a paid subscriber... My advice to you is to change your name and address info immediately to something fake, clear out your Hotmail address book (because they're probably selling that too), and then to switch to a more reliable email provider. There are plenty of services that actively guard you against spam, so it shouldn't be too hard to find one you like.
Re:You can also close your account (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Linux not ready for prime Time (Score:3, Funny)