Company Claims 80% of Facebook Ad Clicks Are From Bots 402
pitchpipe writes "A start-up company, Limited Run, claims that 80% of its ad clicks on Facebook have been coming from bots and will be deleting their page. Their Facebook page reads: 'Hey everyone, we're going to be deleting our Facebook page in the next couple of weeks, but we wanted to explain why before we do ... We built our own analytic software. Here's what we found: on about 80% of the clicks Facebook was charging us for, JavaScript wasn't on ... The 80% of clicks we were paying for were from bots. That's correct. Bots were loading pages and driving up our advertising costs.'"
Re:WTF Apple?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Don't go there, porno image.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Since the ads require Javascript to be visible, yes. If you don't believe me just disable Javascript on Facebook and watch as all the ads disappear until you reenable it.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Javascript turned off? (Score:5, Informative)
No, but you also won't be clicking on the ads since they are no longer visible without Javascript.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
RTFA. They did the analysis. 98-99% of their direct-clicks had javascript. 0nly 20% of the ones from Facebook had javascript.
Sorry if I RTFA. I'll try not to next time.
Upshot: Facebook stock tanks again.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Nowhere near 80% of Facebook users has noscript active or otherwise disabled JavaScript; TFA says this number is about 1-2%.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Nice finding, hope some could confirm (Score:5, Informative)
It's easy to confirm. Disable Javascript on Facebook and the ads disappear. It's pretty unlikely most people are disabling Javascript then finding alternative means to click the ads anyway unless they're a bot.
Re:WTF Apple?!? (Score:4, Informative)
Can a mod delete that link please? This is most surely against TOS and may get people fired from work if using /. at work.
Re:Cui bono? (Score:5, Informative)
Simple. Go to Facebook and disable Javascript. Ads are now no longer visible. How else other than through a bot or some extra effort do you guess that these ads are being clicked when the ads aren't visible?
Re:WTF Apple?!? (Score:4, Informative)
Can a mod delete that link please?
No.. Homey don't censor... Learn how to tune out.
Re:Cui bono? (Score:5, Informative)
"For the past week, I've been running a very successful small business via Facebook. It is called VirtualBagel and more than 3,000 people from around the world have decided they "like" it - despite the fact that it does, well, absolutely nothing. But in running this non-existent firm I have learned quite a bit about the value of those "likes" prized by so many big brands, and the usefulness of Facebook's advertising".> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18819338 [bbc.com]
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
you've never used wget have you?
1. Download the page the ad appears in
2. Download the javascripts using the referral page
3. grep the javascripts for links
4. hit all the links
Repeat.
So if you want to burn a specific company, you only click their ads. Since Facebook is the beneficiary of the ads, this is clearly facebook's problem. Go back in time to the ad scam eFront ran"
http://www.echostation.com/efront/
http://news.cnet.com/A-question-of-numbers/2009-1023_3-255030.html
Re:One day it might actually sink in (Score:4, Informative)
I don't rely on them, but I have a handful of ads on my websites. They barely pay the bandwidth, but pay they do. If ads went away I doubt I'd drop my sites, but I would have to consider just what content I'd put up.
-nB
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:1, Informative)
Why? This is a nonevent (even if it is true.) It's like proving that 80% of TV ads air when people are out of the room. It does nothing to change the basic equation of how advertisers decide whether to place ads, which is: place some ads, see if your sales go up enough to justify the cost; if so, buy more... and so forth. If it's mostly bots, then the amount advertisers are willing to pay will go down in proportion to how much bot "views" go up (or as people simply grow insensitive to the ads, or don't have enough disposable income to buy the product, etc etc).
Re:WTF Apple?!? (Score:5, Informative)
There's a pretty simple fix for that issue. Don't click on random links while at work. Geeknet doesn't give two fucks that you did something that stupid.
Each user, by using Geeknet Sites, may be exposed to Content that is offensive, indecent or objectionable. Each user must evaluate, and bear all risks associated with the use of any Content, including any reliance on the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of such Content.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
They then decided to put a logger on the site to track where the users were coming in from and what they were doing. From this, they determined 80% of the clicks from FB were bots.
Others have also done these types of analytics in regards to Facebook, with results in the 70%-are-bots range.
Here's a quote from the LA Times blog article (admittedly, it is pretty poorly edited):
In a Facebook status post as well as a blog posted Monday, Limited Run said it built its own analytics program, which found that 80% of its ad clicks were coming from users with JavaScript turned off, which makes it difficult for analytics software to verify clicks. The company added that in its staff's experience, only about 1% to 2% of clicks typically come with JavaScript turned off. As a result, the company built a page logger on its site, and that led the company to find that all those clicks were coming from bots.
I suppose all of this could be bunk, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Not against TOS here, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Google answers customers, not consumers.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
I've seen three popular explanations for "whose bots are they?" They're almost certainly a rented botnet composed mainly of compromised (usually windows) machines that are under remote mass control. I've read multiple expose where they show how you go to some .ru etc website and set up an account with them and rent out however many thousand machines you want to, and can do any of several offered services... ddos, backdoor installations, DNS redirects, proxy, and of course spam and click fraud.
Click fraud is run for one of three reasons:
1) drive up pay-for-click revenue for the site (facebook) - probably not a smart thing for them to do seeing as they're Suspect #1 because they have the most to gain, but already have a ton of cash
2) competitors trying to cost you money by driving up your advertising costs
3) competitors trying to cause you to hit your impression hit limit and stop displaying your ads
2 and 3 don't necessarily have to be your competitors, they could be random criminals trying to extort you, "pay us or we screw up your marketing".
I've seen several recent reports of (3) suspected due to finding a pattern of click fraud spikes at times when their competitors were doing a new product release. Renting botnets isn't free, and isn't without risk, and (2) probably doesn't have a very big net return. So (3) at the time of a new product release would appear to be a competitor's most prudent and effective time to buy some click-fraud.
And numerous posts above asking to post the IP addresses. really? Aren't you embarrassed to suggest that those would be helpful to anyone here?
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Then we calculate the ratio of (ad expense)/(profit generated). For Google ads, this is about 1.6. For Facebook ads, it is about 0.2. Guess where we no longer buy ads?
Just to confirm: you're saying that for your wife's business, Facebook ads are 8 times more effective than Google ads.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
Just to confirm: you're saying that for your wife's business, Facebook ads are 8 times more effective than Google ads.
Gack! Sorry, I got the ratio reversed. They are eight times less effective. Thanks for catching this.
Re:I don't doubt it (Score:5, Informative)
So, how many times have you seen a vapourware product on this site and gone to their site to see:
A) How much it costs
B) Where to buy it
and been REALLY FUCKED OFF to find that this information isn't available?
Advertising, Slashvertising and posting 250 words over 6 pages of ad-infested blog wipe doesn't sell products. It sells hype and only marketing get rich off hype.
Here is the perfect advert:
For rent: NATALIE PORTMAN
Comes with HOT GRITS, NAKED.
NPORTMAN.COM, UPS delivery to continental US only, $200 per night. Availability is 1/per customer, per night, first come first served.
And I think that makes the word "amirite" necessary here.
Re:I'm not surprised. (Score:5, Informative)
Not to be rude or offensive, but you failed at it because you didn't know what you were doing. I know several people (for companies not themselves) spending six figures a month with facebook and generating sales numbers larger than that. It's working great for them. If I tried that I would have the same results as you until I learned what I was doing. To do it "right" it requires a custom software and understanding of all the analytics. I've asked them in the past about their budget for testing new ads and products. They will blow a couple grand just getting everything dialed in. Unless you're copying someone verbatim (and that would require hacking them and seeing everything on their back end not just their fb ads) $50 isn't even close enough to begin getting a campaign profitable.
Something else they will do is literally upload hundreds of different ads with different pictures, text, etc. Then they'll choose the ads that have the highest CTR (click through rate). Apparently one of the metrics fb uses for click prices is the CTR. If you're getting a crt of around .1% or higher you'll be getting some great click prices. Which is why they upload so many creativities. They have software that will take images, titles, bodies and generate ads for all the permutations and set very specific demographics for each set (a set would be the total permutations) of ads then upload them to fb. That allows them to see which ads work best for which demographics.
Click fraud is a huge problem though. A lot of ad networks will reimburse you for bot clicks if you can prove they were in fact bots and not real people. A lot of times it will be a small percentage and you eat the cost, because it's not worth the trouble of fighting for it. Think of it as theft if you were running a retail store, because that's essentially what it is. However, at 80% that's just crazy and this company has every right to be upset regardless of the amount they spent. They didn't get what they paid for.
After saying all of that. I'm sure if you had the money to burn you could figure it out and make a nice side income. You would have to treat it like any business though and expect to lose money for a while until you learned the ropes.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:4, Informative)
The question isn't whether or not a "bot" clicked the ad, the question is if a real person saw the ad.
The difference is if a bot clicked it, the 'click' is non-legitimate; an intentional act of deception.
If a human's legitimate user-agent clicked it without showing it --- then it's just a case of FB doesn't know if a human saw it or not, but you as advertiser pay for the clicks, regardless of how the user clicked it; whether they actually saw it or not is an academic matter then.
Re:If you don't have javascript, you're a bot? (Score:5, Informative)
The ads are not just invisible. The space allocated to ads on the page is released; ads are simply completely wiped from the page. There is no white space on the page with hidden links where ads used to be. So there is no chance to click on such invisible ads.
And even if I would be able to click on such a non-exisiting link, I'd still be recognised as a real browser, as I do have Javascript enabled.