Broadcom's Treaty In the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD War 146
eldavojohn writes "For a while there, I didn't know what to buy. Blu-Ray or HD-DVD? Which would be the leader? Only a fool would buy discs of the technology that would be the next Betamax. Fortunately, my dilemma has been solved by Broadcom. From the article: 'Consumer and communications chip supplier Broadcom Corp. Thurs. (Nov. 9) introduced what the company labeled the first single-chip solution to support both Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD standards.' I guess I'll just wait until I can get a player that will play them both."
Pr0n (Score:5, Interesting)
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Ya right! (Score:3, Insightful)
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Dystopia (Score:2)
When only TVs made are HD and your TV dies what do you do? When only DVD players made are DVD/HD-DVD and yours dies what do you do?
Nobody would make exclusively high-def technology that works exclusively with the new formats - especially when there's more money to be made by selling the cheaper DVD/480p stuff.
The smell of dollars will effectively keep any one company from suppressing something consumers want. There will be a market for "regular" TVs for a long time to come - and that means money for
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Which is why BLu-Ray will do better (Score:2)
What you are forgetting are the many presses that are going to be converted anyway to press PS3 games, which all come on Blu-Ray - since the factories will be
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I can't see how anyone who was around when the various writeable DVD formats were around, resulting in all drives supporting 'DVD +/- R/W', would see it working out any other way. A fractured market won't work. They want to convince people to upgrade to their HD DVD player -- "plays half of upcoming new releases!" isn't going to do it.
The only kink is that I thought I'd heard the consortiums were tryi
Best answer... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I don't like the remote-disabling features of some of the next-gen protocols (someone on Slashdot once noted that one of them could pack player-key disabling code on new discs in the event that a player's manufacturer leaked their key, or some such nonsense).
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EXACTLY! Boycott DVDs!
(Because that worked so well the last time)
neither (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:neither (-1 banal) (Score:2)
You must be the guy who walks around in public, and just shouts his own personal prefence at the top of his lungs.
Now run along, and tell everyone how you don't like chocolate ice cream.
I live on a dollar a day in South Africa... I don't have any vehicles at all. For some reason, I'm not interested in buying the new truck-bed liner.
Thank you for correcting the hordes
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Of course, for backup purposes, you'll not buy a player and content, but a burner for your computer and empty writable disks.
Not happening. (Score:5, Informative)
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Maybe so, but by the time they pull their heads out of their asses (or consumers do it for them),
at least the Broadcom solution is already there. Manufacturers that adopt the chipset will
be way ahead of the game in releasing dual format capable machines.
Re:Not happening. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the benefit.
At least until someone learns how to flash a drive to enable both formats.
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Therefore, this is for dual mode devices only, until the cost matches the single mode chips.
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Un-crippling will be as simple as:
1. Open the disk tray
2. Type 1234 on the remote
3. Close the disk tray
Why wouldn't it be that easy?
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Since when has a lack of a liscence stopped companies in other countries under different laws from doing whatever they want to make a profit? Don't want a region-locked DVD player and can't hack your own? Buy a cheap import. Same goes for the next generation -- and in a lot of places it's 100% legal to do so.
E
Waiting has always been the right answer. (Score:3, Interesting)
I know, I know. 480p vs 720p vs 1080p...blah blah blah.
Listen, how much is it REALLY worth to go drop $1000+ on an HD player that only reads certain discs? I've intentionally been waiting for dual/triple format players to hit the market before buying.
Also, I've been quietly hoping inside someone would step up with a better format that isn't DRM encumbered. I'd likely suffocate holding my breath though.
Why? HD-VMD (Re:Waiting has always been the right) (Score:1)
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You misspelled "encrusted".
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You misspelled "encrusted".
I think what you meant was "infected".
Different HD resolutions (Score:2)
We now have 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p.
Most hi-def displays look really good at exactly one of those 3 pairs. And then to add in 2 DRMed disc standards? Whose genius idea was this? I feel sorry for anyone non-technical trying to figure out which TV they want.
(And while I'm ranting -- WHY oh WHY are widescreen LCD monitors 1680X1050 instead of 1080p?!)
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I have not found that to be the case.
Most hi-def displays take in at least 1080i, and downsample. I have an 800x600 projector that does just that - 1080i sources look great. Of course 720p would look equally great given the resolution of the projector, but the point here is that even if displays do not support 1080i in terms of native pixels, even with moderate resolution a 1080i signal looks noticeably better than DVD.
I had DishHD for
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HDs visual benefit is far from marginal. Its a huge jump and the fact is, once you've seen HD video, anything less looks muddy. You really dont realize what you're missing out on.
An HD-DVD player is not $1000. It's $500 or less. Thats half of what you balked at.
Triple Format? Did you make that up? I'm not sure how you did your math but even most regular DVD players can play 3-4 different formats (DVD, VCD, CD, JPEG, etc etc). And there are only 2 HD formats (unless you're a craz
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Right, a marginal 6X increase in resolution...
At least TWICE as "marginal" as the 2-3X increase in resolution from VHS to DVD.
HD-DVD players are under $400. Blu-Ray is under $700.
As opposed to your car CD player, which reads DVDs, Data CD-ROMs, etc.
You get a player for the format you want. Nothing new there. You don't get a VHS player when you want Blu-ray.
HTPC... (Score:2)
I'm just going to build a HTPC with both a BluRay and HD-DVD drive... (Granted, you can't buy HD-DVD drives and I can't find a fanless graphics card with the MPAA's blessing, HDCP.)
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Good luck (Score:3, Interesting)
Playback is going to be windows vista 64bit only, you can go screw yourself if you use anything else.
Personally I'll skip both those coaster technologies until there is a reliable Linux player.
If the Motion Picture Ass. of America reads this, then I will do what ever is easiest of the three options:
1) Play the HD movies from the legal optical medium, on my Linux box, with an opensource player.
2) Play the HD movies from hard
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1) Buy Windows Vista or a standalone player anyway and spend the next 12 months complaining at every opportunity about how horrible both are.
b) Get over the fact that we will NEVER allow our content to be played on an opensource player (at least one without without HDCP).
4) Praise Linux/FOSS more frequently, your overzealousness isn't showing yet.
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I plan on using 64-bit Vista, at least until HD-DVD, BluRay, and CableCard are cracked. If Myth has a better UI, then I might be tempted to try it out.
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Do you want to download a 30-gig movie over today's broadband? I'd much rather go to an all-download system, but I really don't see that becoming a reality for 4-7 years. (Besides, on a large screen, bitrate really does matter!)
And reasonably priced at est $1300 (Score:1)
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it may actually never happen (Score:1)
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Seriously this is what is needed after all most of the players will soon come from the same factories in China, and u can bet there will be only one main model available with just some software to change formats (and lots of different exterior cases to add 'value' of course)
Too powerful to lose (Score:1)
Ricoh's has developed a laser... (Score:5, Interesting)
--Ajay
Re:Ricoh's has developed a laser... (Score:5, Informative)
Hybrid players next year may be a bit optimistic. I hope I'm wrong about that, though.
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Not that I'll be investing in either format, however....
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As I understand it, any simple method of doing so would almost certainly be a violation of one or the other set of patent licenses.
However, a player th
No thanks to both... (Score:5, Insightful)
The new generation of hardware, software, and consumer electronics they're trying to cram down our throats offers only minimal improvements over the old stuff in order to try to get the consumer to give up all the things they used to be able to do.
This is the reason that I'll never buy either of these products. I'm pretty happy with DVDs, thank you very much.
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Exactly... Just a minimal 6X increase in resolution. A minimal scratch-proof disc. Minimal, far more advanced video codecs. Minimal advanced menu system.
Right... They want us to give up our unencrypted, unprotected VHS tapes, in favor of DVDs.
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That's unmitigated crap. The DRM on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is NO WORSE than CSS on DVDs.
Nobody has seen "tracking problems" in the past 15 years, and normal "tape degradation" barely affects resolution at all...
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They can only OMIT a certain license key from future discs, which will prevent those movies from playing in a hacked player. CSS has exactly the same system... AACS just has MORE of these keys.
However, the idea that they can disable your DEVICE (from playing discs you already own) is pure myth, which appears to be based on an utter and complete misunderstanding by "The Register"
Why bother? (Score:4, Informative)
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I don't know about any of you, but I (who knows many many geeks) don't know a single person who is even concidering Hidef DVD's.
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I don't care (Score:1)
And yes, it's legal to download movies in my country of residence
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Right... Because EVERYONE can download 30GB video files in just a couple hours...
And of course they don't mind that they can't then use their (expensive) internet connection for any OTHER purpose (which they purchased it for, in the first place).
And once the videos are downloaded, 30GB of hard drive space is completely free, and everyone who wants to watch movies is enough of a computer expert to manage a RAID con
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I'd be more willing to chalk it up to purposefully wanting to isolate sensitive machines from the network. You know, security by air gap.
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But the last format for writeable data media (i.e., BD-R and HD-DVD-R)? Definitely not. DVD-Rs are heavily used for backup and data storage purposes now, and with their higher capacities, either the BD or HD-DVD version will replace it eventually. A (re)writeable data storage medium is always going to be needed.
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Right, but if you stick with the previous generation at any time, that's usually quite cheap. For instance, when DVD+-Rs were still new and expensive, CD-Rs were already dirt cheap. Then when DVD+-R-DL (dual layer) discs were the cutting edge, the regular single-layer discs became dirt cheap (indeed, the CD-Rs didn't get much cheaper at that point, and seemed to hit a
They solved your problem? (Score:3, Informative)
This doesn't decide the war (Score:2)
Inevitable (Score:2)
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Exactly (Score:2)
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And why didn't you care about whether those discs were +R or -R? Because your DVD writer probably supports both, so that it doesn't matter. However, rewind a few years to when these standards were brand-new, and try the same stunt. You probably would have found the DVD-Rs you bought wo
dual player (Score:5, Informative)
Re:dual player (Score:5, Insightful)
There wont be any legal dual format players any time soon. The Sony Blu-Ray license prohibits HD DVD playback in the same machine.
Just like the DVD-CCA's CSS key license prohibits region-free players :-)
anti-competitive? (Score:2)
Furthermore, how is it that anyone needs a license? Isn't the format and technology well understood, or if not, couldn't it be reverse engineered? Are there patent constraints that I don't know about?
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There wont be any legal dual format players any time soon. The Sony Blu-Ray license prohibits HD DVD playback in the same machine.
I'll take your word for it, but it did make me wonder what the definition of "machine" would be here. Say you can only put Blu-Ray, but not Blu-Ray & HDDVD in a single drive assembly, ok fine. Now, what about multiple drives? Can you put a BD-ROM and an HDDVD-ROM drive in a PC at the same time? Are Sony licensing the BD format per laser effectively? If economies of scale can
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deserve to have their format go the way of Betamax. The ONLY way that there will be
a winner in this war is if consumers DON'T have to make a choice. Otherwise most of us
will sit on the sidelines until the market decides which format is the way to go, and by
THAT time BOTH will have failed.
This chip solves nothing (Score:2)
Next up by Broadcom... (Score:1)
Coming in 2020.
Fools Buy Early (Score:1)
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WHat? (Score:1)
If it's as good as.. (Score:1)
DVD+R vs. DVD-R war all over again... (Score:2)
"Why doesn't my DVD-R work in this machine?"
"What will be the new standard?"
"What kind should I buy?"
"Which one's better?"
Fast forward a couple of years, and suddenly an internal DVD-burner for all formats (and now even dual-layer) can be bought for $100 or less, which makes the difference pretty much moot from a consumer point of view. It was only the bleeding-edge adopters who purchased the technology earl
But most of the work is in software (Score:2)
Given the complexity of the specs, don't be suprised to see a partnership between Pioneer and Toshiba to share code b
Chip, but no license (Score:2)
This doesn't help the consumer at all (Score:3, Insightful)
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In '99, I recall more than a few tech magazine articles that predicted that DVD would replace CDs in *every* application where CD's were being used. This never happened.
If you have a hybrid player, why do you care what disc it comes on? The codecs are virtually identical (the only real difference being the default codecs for audio and video). Both can display all but the longest movies on one
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Actually, this is the only solution to the problem that helps the consumer, because the answer to "which format to support" is "both" and then the consumer doesn't have to care what format they use, just like I don't particularly care which of four recordable DVD formats I use; they all work.
Blu-Ray has already lost (Score:2)
HD-DVD: $399
Blu-Ray: $999
Unless Sony cuts the price in half by Black Friday, it's game over for Blu-Ray
Wake me up .... (Score:2)
If I can't play on my Linux boxes I am not interested.
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Anti-Sony FUD campaign? That's a funny thing to call Sony's marketing tactics.
Totally agree (Score:2)
There are some six million 500 or 600 dollar BluRay playing PS3 about to be sold over the next few months. 1080p set prices are in freefall. The PS3 is demoing HDMI 1.3a support.
It has been pretty sad, hasn't it? Now we see PS3 PREORDERS going for 2k+ on eBay. I always said that
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You must not have a girlfriend. Most families don't want to sit clustered around a computer screen in someone's office or bedroom to watch a movie.
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