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Legal Torrent Sites Help Legitimize BitTorrent
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Mar 08, 2005 07:40 AM
from the salvation-for-the-buzzword-deficient dept.
from the salvation-for-the-buzzword-deficient dept.
Jeff writes "In today's Seattle Times, technology columnist Paul Andrews highlights how legal torrent sites such as CommonBits may lead to wider adoption and acceptance of BitTorrent. With reports that illegal torrent usage may be more than a third of Internet traffic, sites like LegalTorrents, Torrentocracy, Prodigem and bt.etree may offer a compelling defense to future legal attacks while simultaneously promoting fair use rights. Andrews goes on to argue that the future of television may be no further away than integration of podcasting, RSS, tagging and BlogTorrent."
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Ask Slashdot: Legal BitTorrent Communities for Class Presentation? 73 comments
OnBeyondBeing asks: "A few of my friends and I are taking a class at a local university called 'Internet and Society' and we have to do a 'Technology Tour' on innovations that have social aspects or uses (like Google Maps, Kiko (an Internet-based calendar), LiveJournal and Frappr). We chose to do our presentation on BitTorrent. As part of our presentation, we have to do a lab in which the students and teachers use BitTorrent in some way. I was thinking of having people join some BitTorrent community that interests them and join a torrent, but most of these communities contain material that is not suited for an academic presentation. Aside from places like CommonBits and Etree (and others that were mentioned in a previous Slashdot post), what sites have you found that use BitTorrent as the basis of a community that are clean and legal enough for a class presentation? Alternatively, what other interesting, legal uses of BitTorrent have you found?"
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Legal Torrent Sites Help Legitimize BitTorrent
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Legal torrent sites? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.insurancegenius.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 22 2005, @07:26PM)
I'm not sure if that was ever decided by a court - rather it appears that scare tactics caused them to be shut down. For that reason, I personally don't feel comfortable declaring linking to content hosted on other systems illegal.
Re:Legal torrent sites? (Score:5, Insightful)
The torrent protocol isn't illegal, the sites running them aren't illegal, the content distributed from different places however can be illegal in most countries.
Re:Legal torrent sites? (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.haeleth.net/)
Er... no, it isn't.
You can take any knife and commit a crime with it, and likewise you can take any knife and use it in a perfectly legal manner. However, you can't make downloading FreeBSD into copyright infringement whatever you do, and you can't stop downloading a cam of a Hollywood movie being copyright infringement whatever you do.
Therefore, a single knife can be used both legally and illegally, but downloading from a single torrent can only be legal or illegal. Therefore, your analogy does not work.
The sites running [illegal torrents] aren't illegal...
Regardless of whether hosting links to illegal torrents, or running trackers for illegal torrents, is legal or not (given that the people who run these sites inevitably settle when sued, the implication is that THEY don't believe it's legal!), the concept of a "legal torrent site" - being one which hosts only torrents which it is legal for anyone to join - is a useful one.
Re:Legal torrent sites? (Score:5, Informative)
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that's not true. Depending on the jurisdiction, there are knives that are legal to possess, and knives that are illegal to possess -- switchblades, pocket knives over a certain length, etc. The act of acquiring the knife, like the act of acquiring the file, is itself illegal.
I don't have the patience to figure out whether either of you is making sense otherwise. Please continue.
Re:Legal torrent sites? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Friday July 08 2005, @08:07AM)
Re:Legal torrent sites? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me put it this way - why should they care that people like us use these things for perfectly legal file trading, if enough people use them in ways that do infringe? We're not their concern - preventing you or I from getting the latest Linux ISO isn't going to impact their profits at all. Hell, *personally* they may care, but *professionally*, it's not even a consideration, as long as they (believe that they) stand to lose more money by doing nothing, than by seeking to outlaw p2p apps.
They're not boneheaded, they just have a different set of priorities, and you're never going to be able to effectively work against them by dismissing them and their actions in this way.
Not Really (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't you ask the MPAA? (Score:5, Informative)
Dear Oliver,
Thanks for your e-mail.
While Peer-to-Peer (P2P) networks allow for a great deal of opportunity
for distribution of entertainment, P2P networks unfortunately enable
massive amounts of pirate activity.
When people upload or download others' copyrighted works, that is, in
fact, illegal. There is nothing illegal about P2P technologies, if
you're sharing work that you have the rights to share. But, most
commercial works you find available on P2P networks (e.g., albums you
find in stores, movies you find in theatres or stores) were not posted
there legally.
It is only this illegal activity that the MPAA is fighting against. We
will continue to embrace technology and the opportunities it offers
responsible citizens using it legally.
Thanks again for writing, and please let me know if you have additional
questions.
Anne
Sure... (Score:5, Insightful)
I somehow doubt that the content of these sites, and by extension the sites themselves, are going to be popular in the long run.
Just to state the bleeding obvious, of course.
Re:Sure... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.example.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 15 2002, @12:42PM)
Granted, I'll still probably go to other torrent sites too, but don't knock it until you try it. =)
Fighting this same battle now. (Score:5, Interesting)
Examples like this can only help the cause, though I'm not sure by how much.
Defense (Score:4, Funny)
MPAA: I'm suing you for you website with links to Torrents of all our movies.
Pirate: Look, that other site over there offers torrents of non-infringing material.
Court: Because other people are using torrents lawfully, this guy can pirate all he likes. Case dismissed.
Re:Defense (Score:5, Informative)
What? (Score:5, Informative)
With reports that illegal torrent usage may be more than a third of Internet traffic
The reports state that BitTorrent use may be more than a third of Internet traffic. They don't state that illegal BitTorrent use may be more than a third of Internet traffic.
You've just gone and assumed that BitTorrent is exclusively illegal, while moaning about the fact that others do it too. Way to go, dickhead.
Like the open source (Score:3, Insightful)
When the article says the intent is to provide otherwise inaccessible content to Internet "viewers", it only applies to the novice users and those who don't read /. But I must say this is a start. If the companies can support this actively, it would be better.
BitTorrent 4.0.0 Released (Score:5, Informative)
Get it from http://www.bittorrent.com [bittorrent.com].
The license has changed to the BitTorrent Open Source License [bittorrent.com]
Release Notes:
Re:BitTorrent 4.0.0 Released (Score:4, Funny)
Increase penis size by at least 20%
Makes you irresistable to the opposite sex*
Automatic emailing to RIAA/MPAA/CIA and FBI when illegal content seeded.
Dynamic updating of your DNS, making your banking and ebay experience better.
Full software testing
Dupe removal
*No guarantee they will be the same species however.
In other slightly related news (Score:1, Informative)
I guess people outside Russia dowloading from the site are still in breach of copyright in their own country?
illegal usage legitimate usage (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://projectx.gamerznet.com/)
Pay Per View business model needed (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday November 27 2006, @07:16PM)
Re:Pay Per View business model needed (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a fan of DRM by any stretch, but I think DRM is the missing ingredient to see the *AA embrace new media.
Of course, if you can come up with a way to avoid all the DRM nonsense and still make the *AA execs comfortable that they will still roll in the dough...
Re:Pay Per View business model needed (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.theld.net/)
got a torrent? (Score:4, Funny)
Fighting Windmills? (Score:3, Insightful)
AFAIK there never was an initiative to outlaw the protocol itself.
Talk about paranoia.
Bittorrent traffic makeup... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Tuesday September 06 2005, @12:39PM)
Sorry, but how the hell are the people who come up with the numbers able to differentiate between legal and illegal torrents?
First of all, how do you tell between traffic that's due to Linux ISOs and traffic that's due to the latest movie release? Secondly, how do you differentiate between copying of material that may be legal in one country and copying of the same material that may be illegal in another one?
I'm not saying that legal torrent usage is greater than illegal torrent usage (any more than I would say that more drivers stick to speed limits than break them) but it seems to me that there's no real way of differentiating between the two, so all those reports are arguably just speculation.
Re:Bittorrent traffic makeup... (Score:4, Informative)
(http://pig.sty.nu/)
I find it quite weird to think that people will actually write to me and ask if I "still have a torrent for [movie] lying around". Who in their right mind would advertise the fact they're looking for something which to download would be a violation of copyright?? And yet I've actually seen exactly this happening... (Background: I run a small tarpit [spodzone.org.uk] to trap illegal seekers, idiots, the MPAA and spammers - with success on all counts.)
Re:Bittorrent traffic makeup... (Score:4, Informative)
You're assuming the copyright laws of your country apply everywhere. For example, it is generally legal to download copyrighted works in Canada.
Freedom doesn't matter if the facts are wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
Thanks, but I think I'll stick to my nytimes.com [nytimes.com] and news.bbc.co.uk [bbc.co.uk].
Thank you Leeds University... (Score:2)
(http://www.pocketgamer.org/)
Similar to any protocol (Score:3, Informative)
I know it isn't since it is acting at another layer, but for all purposes how is it different from tcpip?
I think if it was bundled with a browser websites would start using this for load balancing. People that love
I know it wouldn't work like that, but I can see a lot of potential in bittorrent for legal purposes
Slackware... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen many other legitimate uses for BitTorrent, since there are a lot of things to download that are of considerable size.
Guns are sometimes used to commit crimes, yet we do not outlaw them. Bongs are being sold at the local Waterbeds N Stuff. Knives that aren't practical for neither hunting or home protection can be purchased in lots of places. Why should software be any different?
My legal bittorrent experience from yesterday (Score:4, Interesting)
My university sits on 2.5gbyte/s pipe, i have control over around 500mbyte/s.
I decided it would be cool to help share the wealth and let around --max_upload_rate 20000 for a few hours. It was maxed out
The Internet is now useless for legal purposes... (Score:2, Interesting)
I wish I had a link, but I have also heard that spam accounted for two thirds of Internet traffic.
So, the entire bandwidth of the Internet is taken up by illegal traffic?
3D Gamers use .torrents too (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Monday February 13 2006, @07:11PM)
I also downloaded the Linux version of the same patch.
Needless to say, the Windows version downloaded at 200+ KB / sec, and the Linux version was restricted by their slightly loaded server at ~80 KB / sec.
I don't understand... (Score:1)
(http://www.starttalkingideas.org/)
And this changes things how exactly ? (Score:2)
This won't change the fact that the MPAA and RIAA are going against sites like Suprnova or Lokitorrents, and rightly so. I don't think no one ever questionned the protocol itself. Why this sudden urge to "legitimize" it. It's already legitimate, big corps use it themselves (see Blizzard and their modified version).
It's a shame.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I still remember how cool I thought it was that Blizzard used Bit Torrent to distribute the beta for World of Warcraft. At least one company understands its potential...
News Flash (Score:2, Funny)
(http://www.zeh.com.br/)
MPAA has already announced it plans to sue the creators and maintainers of such protocols and its clients. Other associations are expected to follow suit shortly.
When I first installed Worlds of Warcraft... (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Thursday January 11 2007, @06:30PM)
I have to give Blizzard credit, it's an amazingly great use of the technology.
Maybe Google will buy it (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://people.ne.mediaone.net/tcicala)
I Love Bees DVD helped legitimize BitTorrent! (Score:3)
(Last Journal: Wednesday August 25 2004, @12:59PM)
If that's not legitimizing BitTorrent then I don't know what is!
Details of copyright infringement (Score:1, Informative)
Copyright is exactly what it sounds like
Downloading _anything_ cannot possibly be a violation of copyright. It is a physical impossibility.
Nobody has ever been prosecuted, sued, or legally harrassed in any way, in any of the countries that most english-speakers would consider worth mentioning, for only downloading copyrighted material. The infringment occurs in providing it to others.
Bittorrent as both a program and a protocol is no more illegal than Apache or HTTP.
The future (Score:1)
1) Racing to roll-out TV services to compete against Comcast&friends.
2) Owners/sellers of lots of moderately-high-speed Internet connections via DSL.
3) Big enough to negotiate with television studios for distribution rights.
4) Use some kind of BT/Tivo-type end-device to ultimately distribute the content to the end-user.
It could be like Comcast's On-Demand, but with thousands of shows. I'd probably pay money for that type of thing, if it were well-executed.
Mandrake ... (Score:2)
Can't get any more legal than that
Sunny Dubey
Only goes to prove the MPAA's case... (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Wednesday June 18 2003, @01:36PM)
Legitimate? (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
Talk about a biased statement... Helping to perpetuate the public's perception of all the 'evil pirates and their tools'.
Must be a laywer.
Buzzword overload! (Score:2, Insightful)
Torrent...Podcasting...RSS...Blog...
Which of these will we use consistently in, say, three years?
Jamendo ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Reading this
We started jamendo [jamendo.com] beginning of 2005. The aim of Jamendo is to help artists use P2P technologies and particulary BitTorrent to get to a larger audience. We combine Creative Commons Licence [creativecommons.org] with BitTorrent to have artists publish their work, and promote a legal use of BitTorrent or eMule or Shareaza or
Thanks to our jamloader [sourceforge.net] , artists put their demo CD in their PC/Mac/Linux and automagically their work get published as a torrent on jamendo and accessible with eMule. The software rips the CD to FLAC, ask to choose one of the 6 creative commons licenses and uploads the datas to our servers. On our servers we do the rip in other various formats, Ogg, MP3, AAC, and do the creative commons watermarking. We also do some kind of community moderation, in order to avoid the ones that upload the latest Britney Spears or the ones that upload the latest neo-nazy band. Bands have to link back to our website from their official website as a control ( see godon [godon.org] for exemple )
Finally we use iRate [sourceforge.net] as our core technology to do the rating of the music, and do intelligent propositions to our audience. Our XMLRPC-iRate server ( http://irate.jamendo.com/ ) supports the latest features of the iRate protocol but today, there's not enough client software, but we have the project to write our jamplayer that will combine iRate and BitTorrent and foxytunes.
What about the money ? Our business model differs from the one of magnatune [magnatune.com] for instance ( I quote magnatune because John Buckman made a very nice and cool entry in his blog [magnatune.com], thanks again to him). We have a more ad-centric model were the service is free for the artists, is free for the audience, but the web pages are ad supported (no popup), the streamed music may be ad-supported up to 1 audio ad every 3 songs, the published archive in P2P networks are high quality archives with no ads. The idea is : bandwidth heavy is ad-supported, bandwidth friendly (i.e. BitTorrent) is ad-free ! We are not a label but rather a "community driven music hosting company" , we allow the bands to put their paypal button to receive donation on their jamendo page, jamendo takes no margin.
Sorry again
Laurent.
legal music bittorrent website ! (Score:1)
An interesting side note (Score:1)
(http://slashdot.org/)
What's most upsetting is that downloading a release of Ubuntu is still intolerably slow.
I really don't like where this is going. Is my only choice for a decent high-speed ISP (Rogers, why did you leave us to these east-coast animals?) is deciding what websites I can use effectively?
What's the use? (Score:1)
(http://home.insightbb.com/~jseale18)
Re:oh great... "lefty" politics ahead... (Score:3, Insightful)
Again: not censorship
Lefty-bashing (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.livejournal.com/users/strawberryfrog/ | Last Journal: Wednesday April 27 2005, @06:28AM)
No, you idiot, it will just fail to be promoted by this site. There is a big difference. You can do the same kind of thing with your right-wing attack site if you so wish. At the least you can agree that there is a market for news for leftists (whatever "leftist" means - in the USA it apparently means anyone who is not a rabid neocon)
What I want to see is for this to have no biases
So make your own. The existence of this site doesn't stop you doing that, and good luck; you'll need it in heaps. Unbiased news is very difficult, arguably impossible.
I want no political slanting of what gets in, I would far rather it be noted for the fairness of their coverage.
Try the BBC [bbc.co.uk], it comes close.
Re:slashdot effect (Score:2)
Re:iwell then (Score:1)
I've used bittorrent before but being on a montly data limit i prefer ftps, especially for larger files...
Re:oh great... "lefty" politics ahead... (Score:2)
"What I want to see is for this to have no biases except possibly to comply with hate crime legislation and to suitably screen access to some items for over 18s only. I want no political slanting of what gets in, I would far rather it be noted for the fairness of their coverage."
Huh? It's their site; they can do what they like. It's trivially easy to set up a web page nowadays. The most productive solution to your dilemma is not to try to tell them what to do, but instead to set up your own site. Want a right-wing site featuring Torrents of content released with the creators' permission? Start your own!