IE To Block Pop-Ups

smd4985 writes "Next year MS will release a XP service pack that enables IE to block pop-up ads. Only a few years late. Maybe Mozilla.org/Opera should patent the technology to make it hard for Bill 'embrace and extend' Gates to kill those XCam ads...."

Vote with money

I never have a problem shopping online while blocking pop-ups.

Anyway, the companies that use shopping carts relying on pop-ups will just have to adapt or die. They need our money, right? Not the otehr way around.

Re:Vote with money

Or, MS just uses the same "Allow requested popups" option that Opera has.

Re:Vote with money

I believe that the proper reaction is: "About Fucking Time."

Re:Vote with money

Requested popup: a popup that is triggered by an OnClick or similar JS event, as opposed to popups that are triggered onUnload, OnLoad, OnHover and timed events triggered from those events. There used to be [kephyr.com] an excellent test for popup killers, but it appears down at the moment. This one [popuptest.com] isn't nearly as good, but it'll have to do I guess.

Re:Vote with money

Google's toolbar is better.

Blocks popups, fills in forms when requested without sending the information back to the vendor, and the search box and news buttons are always nice.

Re:This is funny

That's funny since I just bought 4 books from Amazon, a rifle scope from swfa.com, and a sling and cheekpad from cactustactical.com using Mozilla and blocking pop-ups.

How popup blocking works

Mozilla and Opera block automatic popups.

The shopping carts you describe prompted by the user clicking somewhere.

And in case you are afraid of false-positives, Mozilla alerts you whenever it blocks a popup (small icon at the left of the browser status bar) and you can unblock it.

Re:This is funny

If IE blocks popups like Mozilla, Opera, Konqueror, and everyone else, then advertisers will just use much more invasive, hard-to-block ads. It will accelerate the arms race between marketroids and Internet users. Maybe ads will use Flash, Java, or some random security hole. As long as the unwashed masses are vulnerable to popup ads, they will be advertised to with popups and those of us who use good web browsers (read: not IE) won't see much invasive advertising.

Re:This is funny

Don't panic. It won't work until version 3, so there will be plenty of time for businesses to work around it.

Proxomitron?

What's the point? Among others, Proxomitron [agentland.com] is free, takes 5 minutes to set up, and is massively configurable for popup/banner/script/etc. blocking.

The strange thing here for me is why Microsoft would do this from a business perspective. I would think they're drawing a fair amount of income from their MSN portal advertising. Maybe it doesn't work for MSN? Or they're only blocking popups because the don't plan on having them on a MSN linked site anyway?

Bring on the software links

My favorite pop-up blocker is google's toolbar. [google.com],

If I'm going to have some stupid something sitting my windows toolbar section, it might as well do some useful stuff--search google, block pop-ups, and give me pagerank.

I love free software.

Davak

Re:Proxomitron?

Yeah but its windows only. Check out Privoxy [privoxy.org]. Its open source and runs on all these OSs [sourceforge.net]

I like it better than Proxomitron.

Re:Proxomitron?

*sigh*

You people just don't get it, do you?? You could have a massive button on IE's toolbar labelled "DISABLE POPUPS," and I would bet half of IE's users would never think to click it. Unless a feature is turned on, by default, and works without thinking about it, most users won't use it.

Re:Proxomitron?

Ever install a version of Netscape with popup blocking?

By default, it whitelists netscape.com, aol.com, cnn.com, and a bunch of other sites associated with AOL and Time Warner.

MS could very easily do the same in IE.

This is about Google

What's the point?

I think the point is that MS sees that pop-up killing is quickly become a killer app. I don't think that they are worried about third party apps like Proxomitron because only a small subset of users can/will install them anyway. You could argue that this is being done partly to prevent a drift towards alternate browsers, especially Mozilla, but again only a relatively small audience have the knowhow or desire to change from IE.

Personally I think this is more about reigning in the power of Google, specifically the Google Toolbar which can block popups. Joe User knows Google (they do not know Proxomitron) and the Toolbar is easy to install and it is very popular. I bet the Google Toolbar is installed all over Microsoft's campus.

Google used to be just a search engine, now it does much more, including supplying software to Microsoft's end users. Have any of you checked out the new Google Deskbar [google.com]. Think about it: this is an application which bypasses the browser.

I think Microsoft is very afraid of Google and thats why they made an offer to buy them. They were turned down, so now watch what happens, on Longhorn there will already be a "MSN Search Deskbar" on bootup. This is an opening salvo in a Microsoft war on Google.

Wow!!!

And maybe in a couple more years we'll get mouse gestures too!

fp

Re:Wow!!!

I wish I could remember the link to this interview. But a while back I read an article dealing with the upcoming new version of IE for longhorn, and the person doing the interview asked if they were going to fix the problem with png transparency. The microsoft representive replied with "No comment". How hard can it possibly be to fix this issue that they're spending years on the new release and once again are likley to not finish png support. You'd think the bad press alone would be cause to fix it.

Re:Wow!!!

The PNG transparency issue is one that has been addressed by Microsoft [microsoft.com], albeit in a way that is so fucking ugly it can only have come from them.

Bad for users of alternative browsers?

The thing is, before now companies who did the pop-up thing didn't bother figuring out how to get around existing pop-up blockers because the browsers that had them are not remotely in the majority, and I'll bet that there isn't a terribly significant percentage using separate pop-up blockers, either- kinda like how Mac/Linux users are mostly safe from viruses because most viruses are designed for Windows because most people use Windows. If pop-up blocking is integrated into the browser that 90% of the web-surfing population is using, you can bet that they'll start figuring out how to get around it- or worse, figure out some more annoying method of advertising. Either way, us Mozilla(Firebird)/Opera users might get screwed along with the IE users.

Or they'll just exploit one of IE's 40 billion security holes to get the pop-ups through and everyone else will be just fine.

Re:Bad for users of alternative browsers?

Don't worry. Since it's only an update, nobody will install it.

Prediction

Soon pop-up ad companies will be hiring lawyers to attack Microsoft for blocking ads...

Who do we cheer for then? (grin)

Davak

Re:Prediction

Soon pop-up ad companies will be hiring lawyers to attack Microsoft for blocking ads...

No, the ad companies will just go on to more intrusive advertising, like full page click-through ads like on some sites. This is actually a bad thing since IE's idiot customer base was actually still generating some decent revenue for the popup spammers. Now once that dwindles off they'll need to find new and more annoying ways of advertising. Full screen Java commercials anyone? Yes, I know, shut off Java/Javascript/Flash/animation, etc. We can all go back to HTML 1.0 and Lynx right?

Re:Prediction

go back?

Paul Harvey's Rest of the Story

IE To Block Pop-Ups; Slashdot to not post dupes; Hell to freeze over

Can I get my $5 back? I cant believe I paid for this shit

Re:Paul Harvey's Rest of the Story

I thought Hell already froze over when Apple released iTunes for Windows? :)

Patents good or bad?

Maybe Mozilla.org/Opera should patent the technology to make it hard for Bill 'embrace and extend' Gates to kill those XCam ads...."

If Microsoft was patenting this technology, most /. users would call it evil, right? But, you claim Mozilla/Opera should patent it, and that would be good, right? Somehow I don't quite follow the logic here.

Re:Patents good or bad?

No, he's not saying that it would be good, just that it would be funny. Subtle difference there.

Re:Patents good or bad?

If software patents are going to exist, then it makes sense to patent things you invent in order to protect yourself. If not, and your invention is worth anything significant, some other dweeb will come along, patent the thing you invented, then sue you for using it. That becomes a problem if said dweeb has deep pockets (e.g. Eolas, Microsoft, ...) and you don't.

If you own patents on anything, there's nothing stopping you from licencing these patents for $0 to anyone else in the world. In that light, I'd rather Mozilla *did* try to patent the technology, then licence it out to the rest of the world free of charge. Better yet, get the patent and donate it to the EFF. That way I'd be reasonably sure popup blocking would remain free for anyone to implement/use however they saw fit.

Of course, if software patents didn't exist, the whole discussion would be moot and the world would be a much happier place IMHO.

but then

where will i download smiley emoticons and locate old school mates from?

The only problem...

...is that they plan to have Clippy jump up and say 'It blocked a popup window for you. It looks like they were trying to sell you Viagra.' every time a popup is blocked.

Re:The only problem...

Viagra? Brings new meaning to the word "popup".

spyware

Now it they could only stop spyware and crap that integrated with aps in nasty ways you can't remove.

Bloody registry entries..

Bad news

This is REALLY bad news for the rest of the world. This means that since most people will be able to block popups, the popup companies will resort to new methods of spawing, such as java windows, automaticaly executed ActiveX controls, and hijacking the browser window through their ads. While the middle wouldnt be a problem for anyone other than IE users, the other two could pose a serious threat to my abiltiy to use the web.

Re:Bad news

You should try Avant browser then. I'm looking right now at my "allow/block flash animations" on my toolbar, right next to the "allow/block pictures" and "allow/block popup" buttons. It's built on top of IE so it's pretty good and it has many features that I love about Mozilla like tabbed browsing. And it's free, though you are encouraged the first time you start it to donate a few bucks via PayPal to the author. I've been using it for a few months now and it works great.

Re:Bad news

here are a number of free utilities to block popups in IE that work well, but AFAIK, none can block Flash animations

Then use Mozilla Phoenix. And download the "click to play flash" extension.

Re:Bad news

Insightful? How about "bloody obvious"?

And why was the popup invented? Because we started ignoring banner ads. When they disciovered that banner ads didn't work they moved on to a new model. When popups stop working they'll move to a new model.

How, exactly, is this even an issue? Sure, they'll come up with some nasty crap that takes over your broswer and most broswers will come up with a fix in very shiort order and MS will take three years to fix it.

The technology war between the force-feed advertisers and the human race is nothing new. We'll figure out how to deal with it as it comes.

Re:Bad news

Mozilla has a relatively fine grained set of controls regarding Java script covering

moving or resizing of windows

raise or lower windows

hide the status bar

change the status bar text

change images

create or change icons

read cookies

for the browser and mail independently. Until MS releases ActiveX for Gentoo, I won't be worrying about that either. ;)

Unnecessary...

Maybe Mozilla.org/Opera should patent the technology to make it hard for Bill 'embrace and extend' Gates to kill those XCam ads....

I mean really, why is it necessary to make such an unproductive comment? The only thing that sort of comment accomplishes is making Open Source advocates look bad.

Re:Unnecessary...

I agree. The problem, as I have stated before, is that open source advocates seem to want anybody who uses Windows, or even looks at it, to suffer. So what if Microsoft is putting in a feature that many of it's users have requested, into their product? OMG!! A COMPANY IS USING BUSINESS SENSE! THEY MUST BE THE DEVIL. Seriously, mod me down as flamebait all you want, but seriously, some of the comments thrown around lack any thought whatsoever.

In related news...

REDMOND, Wash. -- Apr. 19, 2004 -- Today Microsoft Corp. announced a new $20 million advertising campaign for their Microsoft Windows(R) Server 2003 family.

The campaign will use pop-under windows as the core of their advertising campaign. Utilizing a little-known bypass for their banner pop-up blocker mechanism in upcoming versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer, Microsoft will take 100% of the available pop-up banner impressions available for users. "This is a great day for Microsoft," said Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates. "Finally, our users will be able to view only those ads that our company sees fit to display to users."

About Microsoft

Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in software, services and Internet technologies for personal and business computing. The company offers a wide range of products and services designed to empower people through great software -- any time, any place and on any device.

About time indeed...

If I have *one* person tell me, upon downloading this, "Hey, did you know that they can block popups now??", I think I *WILL* kill them.

Use Privoxy

Privoxy [privoxy.org] is an open-source web proxy that blocks ads of all kinds, and is highly customizable. It'll run on Linux, Windows, OS X, and god-knows-what-else, and will block all those annoying banners with a high degree of effectiveness. Better yet, it's been available since 2001; once again Microsoft is offering too little, too late.

Patent?!

Maybe Mozilla.org/Opera should patent the [popup blocking] technology

"Method for not opening a new browser window when asked to"?

Prior art: Every browser before Netscape 2 did this, very effectively!

I don't trust them...

Great, knowing how well MS did with "The most Secure OS ever" (WinXP) I can rest assured that their solution to block ads will be better than Mozilla's ;) Now where's my WinXP messenger spam script....hmmmm...

MYIE2

MYIE2 [myie2.com] is a 3.3 MB download addon to Internet Explorer that adds pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, super drag and drop, customized searches from the address bar, aliases, and is highly customizable, so in a way, you already can get those things in IE.

I understand that it doesn't fix CSS or any of the security flaws, but it is a nice option for the hopelessly addicted IE user. Oh, and its free.

I can see it now ...

Level: Critical

Problem: Popup blocker in Internet Explorer 6 SP2 contains a vulnerability that could allow a hacker to gain remote access and execute code on your computer.

And then there will be a patch to the patch to the service pack.

Don't worry about the advertisers . . .

They'll still be able to make Notepad Popups [computerbytesman.com]

losing selling point for MSN

One thing I haven't seen a lot of discussion of is why MS hasn't stepped forward to do anything about popups and spam before this. Enjoying their monopoly in the OS arena, they've established a browser monopoly and have no competitive pressure to improve their browser. IE users have been subjected to torturous popup ads for a few years now. If you examine any of the MSN marketing materials (intentional alliteration), you'll see that they tout popup blocking as one of the advantages to their service.

If the company would improve its browser, they would have one less 'feature' in their MSN service.

Clear example of monopoly exploitation in one product (browser) to gain an advantage in another area (ISP service). Sure, every other ISP is offering pop-up blocking, but let's see how they implement this service patch. Wouldn't it be interesting if it sort of half-works, but is 100% effective for MSN users?

No! Now everyone will move to DHTML popups.

This isn't going to solve anything, it'll just force pop-up vendors to move to DHTML for their popups. If you've never seen one in action, the once at tek-tips.com [slashdot.org] comes to mind. It's a pretty reasonable "please sign up" type popup that occurs once per visit, until you register and let the cookie do it's thing. Mozilla doesn't block this, and it might be a long time before it ever does. I doubt that it's as easy to recognize these as advertising algorithmically as it is with JavaScript popups.

Obligatory questions

What are pop-ups and why can't Mozilla show them? Am I missing something?? Will the next version of Mozilla finally be able to show these pop-ups??? Will Mozilla ever catch up with IE????

Their next revolutionary innovation

And in other news, IE will include tabbed browsing in a service pack to be released in 2007 with much fanfare of how it will revolutionize browsing the web!

Re:Sue?

Mozilla should sue Microsoft for theft of intellectual property.

Right. Sue them for the idea they took from Opera.

Re:Sue?

I suppose Mozilla should go sue Google [google.com] too, right?

No, they can't do that, because you can't spell Google with a dollar sign like you can with "Micro$oft", and you just wouldn't get the same laughs from the Slashdot crowd.

Re:Sue?

Why would an intellectual property suit against Microsoft be OK? Just because Microsoft is loathesome doesn't make intellectual property suits right.

Stand up for what you believe in and don't make exceptions.

Re:not the first time

it wouldn't be the first time microsoft stole a feature... i hear longhorn is gonna have virtual desktops...linux has had it for years... a lot of their interface is...shall we say...Mac Inspired (ex. the trash can)...

And the part that isn't Mac inspired is OS/2 inspired (right-click context menu, anyone?)

Re:not the first time

You can actually download a *powertoy [microsoft.com]* from Microsoft that will allow for up tp 4 virtual desktops in XP