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3G Network Coming to America
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:04 AM
from the catching-up-with-the-times dept.
from the catching-up-with-the-times dept.
Not2Bryt64 writes: "Reuters has a story about Cingular building a nationwide 3G network. According to Cingular it 'will deliver mobile users data at rates of up to 470,000 bits a second -- fast enough to watch video clips over phones.'" I just hope it doesn't mean that we have to see more annoying Cingular commercials. But I want my video cell phone!
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3G Network Coming to America
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on the fifth day of christmas (Score:3, Offtopic)
five video cell-phones
four sega dreamcasts
three thinkgeek shirts
two copys of The Hobbit*
and 2.4.15 on a CD
*One copy to read, another to keep under the mousepad for luck.
So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Watching movies on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather watch them on my home theater or in a real movie theater.
Reading/writing email on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather do that on something with a _real_ keyboard, thanks.
If we can make wireless devices that actually have a _use_ (think wireless Newton), then maybe we're getting somewhere.
If I can read my email comfortably and actually _write_ a response (pressing 4433555555666 just to write "hello" is unacceptable!!) then I might have a use for it.
Of course, none of this matters since 3G doesn't work anyway.
Think OUTSIDE the box, please. (Score:5, Interesting)
Reading/writing email on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather do that on something with a _real_ keyboard, thanks.
Relax, their will be PC/PCI cards that use 3G technology to provide you with internet access just like your ethernet and WiFi cards today.
If we can make wireless devices that actually have a _use_ (think wireless Newton), then maybe we're getting somewhere.
The SprintPCS Visor phone springboard module [sprintpcs.com] actually has built in support for 3G, so that when sprint turns on their 3G support (now in testing), the visor phone will be ready for it. (Although it only supports the lower ISDN-like speeds of 3G, which is what Sprint PCS will roll out first.)
In fact, I daresay Sprint PCS is closer to rolling out 3G than Cingular, since they already have an all digital CDMA network laid out across the nation, and have been testing 3G for quite some time.
http://www.sprintpcs.com/aboutsprintpcs/Cdma_3g
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
In Asia, wireless devices are utterly *booming*. They're functional, stylish, and most importantly, useful. Companies over here see how much our youth and tech-savvy individuals respect and revere the wowing technology and products they have over there, and figure that they can give us some knock-off crap and we won't know the difference. The problem comes from the fact that Asians have long had exposure developing and using handheld devices like what are sold overseas. Here, with the solid exceptions of the Psion/Palm/Newton devices, nobody likes handhelds. Take a look at how many people like those little Casio organizers - They're cheap $30 plastic devices that break in no time. They reek of feature creep, and their PC connectivity it pathetic - Output to a CSV file? You're kidding, right? Marketers just don't have a clue about the American audience of personal/home technology buyers compared with the eastern markets.
Unfortunately for them, we're a lot smarter than they think we are, so we won't fall for it. Unfortunately for us, though, the odds are reasonably good that it'll get crammed down our throats whether we like it or not (Anyone try to get service for a Motorola Lifestyle analog cellphone these days?). At the end of our contracts, they'll transition us all to the stupid new phones they'll make, and they'll declare 3G a success because millions of people use it, regardless of the fact that they were forced into it.
Is that bandwidth per user? (Score:5, Informative)
Shared bandwidth maybe effecient for the carrier, but it can really bite for the user.
So now (Score:5, Funny)
I am so sick... (Score:4, Interesting)
NO ONE is going to watch video over a phone for long periods of time, even if the battery could handle it.
However, how would you telecommuters like to be able to work from ANYWHERE in the world without sacrificing your high-speed, always-on connection to the internet?
IT is a cool invention, but 3G really could change the world.
Re:I am so sick... (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely you don't think that video over a mobile phone is being pushed merely to watch movies.
Please!!
The reason for video over a phone is simply to improve communication (oh and of course to show you advertisements so the companies can make more money
I work for a broadband provider and one of the big products being developed is video conferencing over an IP/VPN. People want to see the people they are talking to. It's the next logical step after standard voice communications.
Check out this article [usatoday.com] at USAToday [usatoday.com]. See the small picture. There is a small video camera in the hinge of the phone. This is what video phones will/should be used for. Not movies.
Costs (Score:5, Informative)
Plus, some pundits have already slated it as doomed as the current networks are already vastly popular with relatively cheap phones. It would have to take a big incentive for most people to get rid of their cheap gsm phones and move to 3g ones. Because chances are, they are gonna be expensive so the phone companies can actually try to break even. Its gonna take em a long time though...
However, considering that the states isnt all gsm already, i hope your 3g network gets sorted properly.
Any hope the quality of a voice call... (Score:3, Troll)
sPh
Sounds like a start (but:What's the deal w/clips?) (Score:3, Interesting)
As an aside, though, am I the only one who wonders about the weird fixation cellular network planners seem to have with video clips? Honestly, if you asked me the top 25 things I'd want to do with a high-bandwidth portable personal communications device it wouldn't even occur to me to put "watch video clips" on my list. Am I the one who's out of touch here, or are they?
It is not _that_kind_ of 3G (Score:4, Informative)
It is only GSM V.3, being based on TDMA.
It is done via channel bundeling and new protocoll for airinterface.
3G is WCDMA (here in Europe) or some other stuff (ask Qualcomm).
cees
Why Video on a Cell Phone is good... (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, think about a small video camera in your phone. 3G is the bandwidth to speak to eachother Face to Face (well sort of) over a cell phone. Add a little cradle for the thing (so you can sit and look at it) and you can put a face on the other end of the line. IMHO, that would be a worth while use of video on a phone.
But if that wasn't good enough, imagine calling 911, getting patched to an Paramedic with a video phone, and being able to pass video data to mdical techs on their way to the scene (they may even be able to help provide instructions for emergency care). Useful stuff if you ask me.
High-speed wireless. (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a little bit of a leap for some geeks to move from the productivity-centered focus of desktop computing and its derivations to the idea of communications-oriented socializing technologies, but for most people the latter is usually more exciting.
Cingular and the Treo (Score:3, Informative)
Screw 3G - I want useful 2G (Score:4, Insightful)
- Good voice clarity - equivalent to wired when in better-than-marginal conditions.
- Good enough battery life to talk for at least 3 or so hours on a charge. LiIon batteries for no memory and good power density.
- Antennas that are either recessed or integrated to the body. Nokias do this well in current models. No protruding breakable dongles like the StarTAC.
- A phone that fits in my pocket.
- The ability to download phone numbers from my PC. But that's all the PIM functionality I want.
And from the phone company, I want the following:
- Coverage almost anywhere. Digital, too. No more AMPS service anywhere.
- No roaming. At all. And no long distance if the carrier has a national footprint.
- Either free incoming or "caller pays" incoming, the way real telcos do it.
- Finally, and most importantly - I want a service that just gives me minutes, at a comparable cost to wired minutes. I should pay less than $0.10 per minute for any kind of outbound call, regardless of location or destination. One of the things that sucks the most about US mobile phone companies (I can't speak to what they do elsewhere) is the way they differentiate between peak and off-peak, and the high cost of minutes once you use the monthly allotment. I don't pay extra on my wired phone - I shouldn't have to on a mobile.
Slightly better data support would be nice (up to, say, 56k support), but not essential. If I need wireless data badly enough, I can buy it separately. And if I want broadband, I probably will do better having it wired (to my home) than in my pocket on the road.
Meanwhile... (Score:4, Informative)
on a side note. For those of you compaining about the video on phone. It seemed to me that they weren't pushing video on phone, but that they were trying to give people an idea of how fast the throughput is. Not everyone understands what a KB is.
Misfit
Re:Meanwhile... (Score:4, Informative)
They're claiming 144kb/sec data as well (for the first phase of the rollout).
No word yet on what pricing will be, for either data or the direct-connect feature.
I think both these features will be somewhat slow to catch on - people will have to buy new phones to get the advantage... unless Sanyo, for example, actually does what they've promised and provide firmware upgrades to the 4700 and newer models (I just bought a 4700, not for 3G, but because after 3 years, it was time to ditch the old Samsung 1500 with the broken antenna and battery that wouldn't hold a charge anymore).
Media Overload Will Robinson! Danger, Danger! (Score:3, Interesting)
"sarcastic voice"
oooo, ooooo look streaming video
"/sarcastic voice"
Really, so what? What can the average person do with this except maybe the I'm-late-for-a-bored-meeting (board purposely spelt incorrect). or a new twist to phone sex and 1-900 numbers.... After that, what would the average person want with this..... Sorry CMDTACO... You are not the average person so you're allowed to want this....
I have no need for this, nor would I wish to pay for such a device
Any ideas how much extra this would cost?
Heck, I can't even reason with paying for wireless internet access anymore. It was a great novelty at first, and maybe checking my stocks or e-mail at the beach...
But really, do we all need to be THAT connected?
3G doomed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider this - local wireless is becoming increasingly popular and powerful. How long will it be before your handheld, Palm, or whatever, instantly connects to your office network via wireless so that you can have a broadband connetion to the Internet via that? Project a bit further - how long is it going to be before your handheld instantly becomes a guest on other companies' networks when you are visiting them, so you get a broadband internet connection through that? How long will it be before hotels also have this facility? Universities? Schools?
The technolgy to do this is very nearly here, today. It will be relatively cheap to implement. So, the telcos are going to be loosing out on all that lovely revenue from connections to the internet made in or near company offices, hotels, schools, universities, etc. What proporition of their mobile phone revenue has that got to be? Sixty per cent? More?
Remember Iridium? Once upon a time it sounded like it couldn't loose, didn't it?
The telcos are years behind with 3G. My advice - don't invest in it.
HYPE Warning: 3G is still illegal. This is GSM (Score:4, Insightful)
The FCC has not authorized ANY frequency band for 3G yet. Plans to re-allocate military spectra fell through.
3G deployment is years in the future in the US because no standard can be set till the Government gives up some useable range of frequencies.
So this is just GSM with the added benefit of a hyped up press release. GSM can be upgraded to EDGE (3G) in the future (though it will require more towers and different equipment on them), but it ain't happening now (we're talking about now, aren't we?)
Heat? (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anyone know what kind of sillicon they're planning on throwing into their phones? I read a while (6 months or so) back about some ericson engineers who complained that they could get the throughput (the bandwidth) happening, but they kept melting the phone chassis because the processor was too hot.
You'd need some fairly muscular processing to do video replay, etc... and small phones don't really ventilate well, especially inside my pocket.
On the other hand they could bill it as a combination tool. "It's a cell phone, a portable video-on-demand device, and a hand warmer
Sure it's fast, but is it *fast*? (Score:4, Informative)
This is not 3G - as in UMTS or CDMA-2000 It's 2.5G (Score:5, Informative)
As for the bit rates, 470kbps is reachable...in a test lab. In GPRS, depending on the encoding (CS-1 to CS-4) you get 10 to 20kbps per timeslot. Note, that this is the rate on PHYSICAL layer. You lose a slice for all the overhead caused by the protocol stack, of course.
One TRX (tranmitter/receiver) means 8 timeslots on a 200 kHz band. The newest GPRS phones are "4+1"-devices, using 4 timeslots for downlink, 1 for uplink, with CS-2 encoding, yielding about 40 kbps bitrate - in optimal conditions. This means that there are no other users and you get those timeslots completely for your own use.
EDGE brings in a new modulation (8-PSK instead of GMSK), in which the bitrate is tripled (symbol rate/baud rate stays the same).
So, in optimal conditions, with CS-4 encoding and EDGE, you get about 80 kbps. This means that for 470kbps you need 6 timeslots. Right. That means almost one whole TRX for a single user.
Either Cingular invests a LOT of money (well, since they are switching their entire infrastructure to a new system, they are doing that already), and brings in one TRX/user, those rates are unreachable in any real world environment.
Of course, EDGE is not ready yet, and in GPRS only CS-1 and CS-2 encodings are implemented anywhere (CS-3 and CS-4 coming in on H1 of 2002), so the maximum bitrate at the moment is about 40kbps.