Microsoft FrontPage License Prohibits Anti-Microsoft Speech

According to this story running at Info World, the license from FrontPage 2002 contains a clause that says 'You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or their products or services ...' An unfortunate clause that will prevent me from my long term plan of migrating Slashdot to Frontpage (cough). There's lots of other nastiness in this article too. Can anyone find that specific clause? Can anyone find the EULA itself? Update: 09/20 18:10 GMT by T : According to reader bteutsch "FWIW, the clause appears only in the EULA agreement for use of the FrontPage Logo, not with the product or server extensions license."

Re:Unbelievable, even from Microsoft.

Yes, unbelievable. Unbelievable that anyone would believe it. According to this page [microsoft.com], you can't use the Frontpage logo on a site that disparage Microsoft.

Maybe a good thing?

IANAL, but isn't there something in contract law that says that if you put a clause in a contract that is illegal, then the contract is null and void on its face. For example, I can't put a clause in a contract that says that you will become my slave if you agree to the contract. Slavery is illegal and no contract is allowed to supercede that (AFAIK).

So the fact that this exists, does it not render the license restrictions that MS is putting into place null and void? In other words, has MS just ceded their rights to control Front Page?

(Please chill on the flames. If I knew what I was talking about I wouldn't have had to ask!)

Re:Maybe a good thing?

'IANAL, but isn't there something in contract law that says that if you put a clause in a contract that is illegal, then the contract is null and void on its face. For example, I can't put a clause in a contract that says that you will become my slave if you agree to the contract. Slavery is illegal and no contract is allowed to supercede that (AFAIK).'

'So the fact that this exists, does it not render the license restrictions that MS is putting into place null and void? In other words, has MS just ceded their rights to control Front Page?'

IANAL, but you don't need to be a lawyer for this.

First, as one person pointed out, licenses invariably have clauses that say if one part is found invalid, then only that part is invalidated, not the whole thing. Second, even if what you said is true, then what is nullified is the license. That doesn't mean Microsoft has "ceded" their rights to FrontPage, it means that you no longer have the right to use it.

This is why contracts have those clauses. For any non-trivial contract, it would not be good that the whole contract was nullified for obvious reasons, for either side.

Finally, I am surprised this wasn't noticed in a reply, but in states where the UCITA or compatible varient has been passed, this clause is likely to be completely legal, merely a varient on the non-review clause.

Complete BS.

Jesus, I wonder how long before this "feature" makes it into other MS products -- Internet Explorer anyone?

I can't believe that Microsoft [The remainder of this post has been sanitized by MS Internet Explorer. Please go back about your business, and remember that Microsoft is only trying to conduct legitimate, non-predatory business. You have been warned.]

IANAL

However it is my understanding of the law that you can create a contract that has a clause in it that breaks the law - (the US Constitution in this case - you know free speech and all) and it just blows the entire contract out of the water.

Seems like a stupid move on the part of Microsoft IMHO.

Interesting experiment.

If there's anyone here with that product and no great love for Microsoft, set up a "lauds" page that the average reader will immediately detect as being sarcastic (like the famous Micorsoft/Space Cadet page), but be careful to say nothing overtly critical. Then see whether they come after you.

I'd volunteer, but they haven't released the Linux version yet.

That one's easy

Okay, so use FrontPage to create your page's layout, write all the words in the page that don't refer to M$, M$NBC, M$N such as "the", "tarball" or "grandmother", then complete your page with VI or EMACS, which are pieces of software released under a non-M$-centric license.

Berserk all you want, MS.

It's been said before, and I suppose I'll end up having to say it this time.

The more MS squeezes, the more slips through their fingers.

Already, people are pretty much opting out of all this by continuing to run Windows 95 6 years after its release, and Office 97 4 years after its release. Many people have intimated that they'll hang onto 2000 as long as they can. If the longevity of previous MS OS's is any indicator, this may be five years or more.

And of course, there's always our favorite X-Factor, waiting in the wings to scoop up faithful even from MS's latest and greatest.

This effect becomes more obvious the more MS tightens the strings...

This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONENTS

This does not relate to documents edited with Front Page. It say that you are not allowed to use server-side elements such as the MSN MoneyCentral stock ticker on your website, if you are publishing anti-MS comments.

rOD.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

In the spirit of fighting FUD, here is the whole section of the EULA (emphasis added by myself):

2. FrontPage*
(*version corresponding to Office XP)

FrontPage web components. For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline compone nt, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component.

Installation and Use. You may install and use any number of copies of the Software on server computers to provide services as part of your web site on the Internet that you des ign with FrontPage and that is not a mobile wireless or interactive television site ("Your Web Site").

Restrictions. You may not edit or modify the Software in any manner whatsoever. You may not display any of the logos that appear in the Software in any manner that implies sponsorship, endorsement, or license of Your Web Site by the owners of such logos. If the Software contains any active links to other sites, you agree to maintain such active links and not redirect or modify them. You may not market, distribute, sublicense, lease or rent the Software on a stand- alone basis. You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia or their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state, federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred, or pornography. You shall not convert the news headlines in the MSNBC component into an audio format for redistribution to audio users. You agree to immediately remove the Software from Your Web Site if you do not abide by any of these restrictions after notice.

rOD.

Re:This relates only to Front Page SERVER COMPONEN

It merely restricts visible elements (server-side controls and such) from being associated with objectionable content. And that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Not all server-side things are "visible elements" to the user. No, plain and simple MS is saying you can't use MS FOO to communicate something bad about MS. It doesn't matter one iota whether MS FOO is an entire product or a subset of a prodcut (as in this case). The ethical issue is still the same. Here's an analogy: The phone company saying you can't use their three-way calling, caller ID, call waiting, or voice mail to say bad things about the phone company to your friends, but you can still use the more mundane generic phone call to do so. If you can't see what's wrong with that, then your psychology is so different from mine that you might as well be an alien.

Smells like Slashdot spirit

According to this page [microsoft.com], you can't use the Frontpage logo on a site that disparage Microsoft. Which seems pretty reasonable to me.

Good lord! Lies about Microsoft on Slashdot? Nah, couldn't be.

Re:Smells like Slashdot spirit

Actually, forget the above. I think I found where this came from. Take a look at this PDF [northwestern.edu] that has the phrase. Unfortunately, the PDF reader sucks when it comes to selecting text. But I think this is the relevent part: "For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline compone nt, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component."

This section looks like it specifically about components that interface with MSNBC news sites or something like that. It's not clear exactly what this section is referring to.

In any case, it's not a broad "you can't create an anti-Microsoft web site with Frontpage".

Show me where...

I'm no fan of Microsoft, but I reamed Foster in an e-mail for reporting this crap. Upon reading this the other day, I went to a co-worker who has FrontPage 2002 installed, and we both looked through the included on-line EULA. Damned if we could find any mention of this "prohibition".

So, show me where in the EULA this is stated. Are there multiple EULAs? Then which one takes precedence ("the last one? well, that wasn't the one I got when I bought it" concept)?

Damn it...THINK PEOPLE...investigate these things on your own and don't just knee-jerk a reaction because someone says something exists. Doesn't help perceptions much, especially if the liars/FUDers this time around are the open-source proponets....

Slashdot Censors Too

If I say that slashdot is a load of old crap with contributions from a bunch of smelly spotty sex-starved geeks who think something like an operating system can actually be cool I'll get censored into oblivion by offended moderators pretty damn quickly. Here, watch:

<Ducks for cover>
Slashdot is a load of old crap with contributions from a bunch of smelly spotty sex-starved geeks who think something like an operating system can actually be cool
</Ducks for cover>