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CD burning Will Never Be The Same

Posted by timothy on Tue Jun 05, 2001 04:53 PM
from the probably-not dept.
mooneyguy writes: "Reuters is reporting that EMI has just announced a partnership with Roxio (you know, the "toast" and "Easy CD Creator" folks). They have also bought a minority stake in the company. The potential impact here is scary. Roxio's Duea is quoted: 'Our goal is to enable consumers to legally download and record music to CD in a consumer-friendly manner while fairly compensating copyright owners and creators...' What changes now are forthcoming in their software to force this "fair compensation"? And how far will those changes penetrate throughout the industry? This can't be good for the consumer. Roxio has also come forth with a press release announcing this partnership. In it they announce "EMI will work to develop ways for consumers to easily record authorized music onto recordable CDs" and, even better, 'We want to continue to work with leaders in the music industry, like EMI, to not only provide for the protection of their digital content, but also to enable record companies and artists to get paid for burning.' Yikes!" Anybody else notice how stores like Walmart and Target are pushing the Music CD-Rs more and more? Hmmmm.
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  • Time to use some other product. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:00PM
  • gnome toaster by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:03PM
  • Re:Retailers by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:22PM
  • Re:Next Logical Step by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:32PM
  • Another Camel Nose Under the Tent! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:57PM
  • CDs already have a "no copy" bit. All ignore it. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:01PM
  • The obligatory rant about copyright by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:13PM
  • Re:This could be REALLY good or REALLY bad by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:39PM
  • Re:Next Logical Step by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:05PM
  • DUDE, Nero is from Germany. DMCA does not apply! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:43PM
  • A musician's legitimate gripe by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:05PM
  • Re:Not circumvention by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:03PM
  • Looks to me like ... by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @12:57PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:25PM
  • Freedom != buying absolute property rights fallacy by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:07PM
  • Re:Quality? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:11PM
  • Re:Easy! (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:33PM (#173756)
    Come on. Slashdot has been like this for ages.

    "Sony is in the RIAA. They're evil. Boycott them."
    "Sony is in the MPAA. They're evil. Boycott them."
    "Oh, look, Sony has the PS2! I've got to go buy one right now!"
  • Next Logical Step (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM (#173757)
    This has obviously been the next logical step in the evolution of CD-R. For the longest time, people (especially here on /.) have been debating the pros and cons of taxes on the CD-R drvies, or taxes on the actual CD-R's which are meant to help compensate those musicians (read greedy RIAA). Obviously, that's a long way away (and likely to never happen), so the next logical step is software control, and here it comes via Easy CD Creator. Too bad there's a lot more better writing programs out there that are free. They do accomplish their goal here though. they are slowly making it harder for the average Joe to pirate music. Generally, I don't think that the RIAA, MPAA and whoever else really cares if the whole slashdot crowd pirates their music (we're the geeks, we'll always have the ability to pirate). But when Joe Blow sitting next to you has to so much as scratch his head to pirate music, they've won. Sorry for posting anonymous coward :)
  • Yes, BUT!!! by Wakko Warner (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:59PM
  • Re:It's hard to squeeze toothpaste back into the t by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:09PM
  • Re:The Real Problems with 'compensation' etc... by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:20PM
  • Re:That all depends by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:28PM
  • Re:it's a conspiracy! by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:43PM
  • Re:CD-Rs in DVD players by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:45PM
  • Re:Have they EVER succeeded? by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:55PM
  • Re:Music CD-Rs? by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:01PM
  • Re:rip, mix, burn! by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:06PM
  • Re:What's the difference...? by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:13PM
  • Re:And what legitimite gripe do you have? by DunbarTheInept (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:57PM
  • by DunbarTheInept (764) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:44PM (#173769) Homepage
    You're giving the recording and software industry more credit than they deserve, I think. Sure, if I was certain that this would *only* affect music piracy while still leaving open fair-use copying, then I'd have no problem with it. But I think the odds of the industry coming up with a fair scheme that would do that is round about zero. Fair use should include the notion that people are not required to purchase the same music multiple times just to change its media format if they have the means to change the media format themselves. It is perfectly legal for me to make a cassette tape copy of a CD I buy (for the sake of playing in my old car stereo that has no CD player). It only becomes illegal if I give that cassette to someone else who hasn't purchased the music in some form already. I should also be allowed to burn my own CD's from music I've already purchased. I have several compilation CD's I've made for the sake of having compact "best of" collections to take with me on trips or in to work. This is perfectly legal since I already purchased those music selections in their original form, and I am merely organizing my favorites together.

    I have zero confidence in the industry's ability (or more important, their willingness) to produce a solution that repsects this fair use type of copying. Those a**holes would love to make fair use a thing of the past. If they can't do it by changing the law, they'll do it by ruining all the available tools.

    Normally, that wouldn't matter. I'd just say, "Screw them, I'll use my own burning software". The specs are public, there's a plethora of CD burner software. But the badly worded DMCA will make those tools become illegal because they "circumvent" a protection scheme, even if that protection scheme wasn't invented until after the fact, and even if that protection scheme is so badly implemented that ignoring it is acutally the default if your software wasn't written to notice it.

  • can cdrecord or cdrdao on unix by soellman (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:57PM
  • Re:can cdrecord or cdrdao on unix by soellman (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:17PM
  • CD-Rs in DVD players by Malc (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:41PM
  • Re:Sell, sell, sell! by Jason Earl (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:37PM
  • Keep yer old systems folks! by bobalu (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:48PM
  • SDMI Survival Kit? by bobalu (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:03PM
  • why this is bad by David Jao (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:39AM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by richieb (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:43PM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by richieb (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @02:38AM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by richieb (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @10:41AM
  • Re:Retailers by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:55PM
  • Re:Sell, sell, sell! by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:11PM
  • Re:cdrecord rocks. by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:16PM
  • Well, I truly believe in freedom. But you're backwards, my friend.

    In a state of perfect freedom, *everyone* can disseminate works, provided that they have them. In a state of total oppression, only the creator can disseminate works - others have the ability to, as granted by God, and the natural right to, which we call Freedom of Speech, but the exercise of their rights and abilities are denied them by an interfering authority.

    Your freedom is oppression, and your oppression is freedom.

    That said, there may be, and in fact _are_ socially desirable consequences of enacting a carefully devised and moderate system wherein rights are circumscribed, but it is impossible to call this freedom. It's just practical - don't flaunt it as anything but.

    The real point of copyright is not to enshrine natural moral rights artists posess, since there simply are none. It is to encourage artists to create as many useful works as possible, in order that they may be freely used without regard to the artist. A temporary and limited monopoly on certain instances of dissemination is granted to the artist, but it is a means to an end, and never ever an end in itself.

    And even then, the real system is not like you describe. Artists do not have absolute rights to dictate how their works are disseminated. No artist can rightfully deny a fair use of their work. (such as its inclusion within a transformative work) No artist can rightfully prevent their work from entering the public domain, whereupon the limits that people willingly suffer are lifted.

    And certainly this isn't a matter of stealing - it's a matter of copyright infringement, which could also be considered illegally exercising natural rights to which only the copyright holder and his designees have permission to exercise. (roughly)

    Ideas are not property. Even works are not property, though the medium they are within may - _may_ - be. A book is property; the words are not. A statue is property; the shape is not. Yet reproduce either into another medium which you impeccably own, and you have transgressed. Words are not things, and we actually do not treat them as such. What is illegal is not the thing, but the act of copying them - the exercise of rights that you're not permitted to exercise. Thus, infringement.

    As for the Roxio system itself, I can see a significant flaw. It imposes burdens for copyright holders to make use of it to exercise their own legal rights. This treads dangerously close to copyright infringement. (as copyrights must be exclusively assigned to the creator, unless he transfers or expands them) In my capacity in my job, I've made copies of CDs for musicians with ordinary equipment. Prohibiting this is just not a good thing.

    Besides which, the courts have found that it is entirely outside the scope of copyright to preclude the copying of works from one medium to another, aka "space shifting." Statutory exceptions exist for many other classes of works. (for instance, any software you legally own or lease may be backed up all you please) There is no need to require that the original source be used, or that you prove to the satisfaction of an inanimate hunk of junk that you may legally do so; posession and performing the copy oneself is all.

    Ultimately, no computer program in the world will _ever_ be a substitute for a court. We have perfectly good mechanisms in place for determining if copies are legally or illegally made and disseminated, and that entire framework exists within the domain that we collectively through our government allow it to. Copyrights for music could vanish tomorrow if we really wanted them to - there'd be nothing wrong with it, they aren't manditory.

    Software cannot make the kinds of decisions human beings are capable of, it's not a substitute. We should not try to allow it to attempt to be one as it'll inevitably be sorely lacking.

    Me, I'm an artist, and that's how I earn my daily bread. Nevertheless, I know the place that I and my bretheren occupy. It is *not* one that deserves dear privleges.
  • Re:Bad thing? by gr (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:10PM
  • Re:Like anything else... by crisco (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:58PM
  • by pschmied (5648) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:02PM (#173786) Homepage
    The superstar musicians (the ones who make money from CD sales and royalties) are rarely the talented ones.

    I'm sorry. I have friends who are music majors and are, IMHO, millions of times better than the likes of Brittany Spears.

    Even if you think Spears is the greatest musician ever, I still doubt that she puts the same amount of work into truely mastering music that my friends have.

    I'm going to argue that it is better for regional stars to arise because people like them, not because some fat cat record company propped them up.

    I know some fantastic jazz musicians who play for a subsistance lifestyle that enables them to spend all their time doing what they love.

    Perhaps art is dead elsewhere, but where I come from we like our local bands. Many of our local bands are every bit as good as anyone else, and they are funner to listen to because they are people.


    -Peter

  • Re:Bad thing? by MushMouth (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:55PM
  • This "Screw the Man" stance is getting old by Synn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:16PM
  • It won't? by Moonwick (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:29PM
  • Re:Easy! by ocie (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:18PM
  • Does this mean... (Score:3)

    by ocie (6659) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:22PM (#173791) Homepage
    that new cd R/W units will have a coin slot?

  • Adaptec easycd4 is half by Archfeld (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:49PM
  • and your point is by Archfeld (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:52PM
  • Re:Roxio's problem by Archfeld (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:56PM
  • Isn't that a Windows app ?? by AftanGustur (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:21PM
  • Re:Retailers by Maserati (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:06PM
  • by benmhall (9092) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:11PM (#173797) Homepage Journal
    For Windows:

    Beginner: NTI's software (http://www.nticdmaker.com/index.cfm)

    Advanced: Nero
    http://www.ahead.de/en/index2.htm

    For Linux:
    Gnometoaster
    (http://gnometoaster.rulez.org)

    kisocd
    (http://kisocd.sourceforge.net)

    Or cdrecord directly for Win32, Linux, Mac, BeOS, Solaris and more.

    Hey, for those of you not following, Andy (the developer for Gnometoaster) has released a 1.0Beta1 of the excellent Gnometoaster burning app.

    One of the nifty new features is the ability to DnD .ogg files into the track window and have them burn out to normal CD Audio files. Is this the first burning app to offer this feature?

    Ben
  • Re:Retailers by Tim Browse (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:38PM
  • The Real Problems with 'compensation' etc... by OnyxRaven (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:55PM
  • Re:CDs already have a "no copy" bit. All ignore it by VValdo (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:53PM
  • by VValdo (10446) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:17PM (#173801)
    I mean, if a song is encoded in such a way that it has a "security bit" turned on (say, uh, bit 1 turned on means "copyrighted") and all the commercial burning software "respects" this convention, then either Nero has to refuse to burn as well or it's "circumventing a technology intended to protect copyright" and becomes illegal.

    Or am I missing something?
    -------------------
  • Re:Easy! by Delphis (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @05:26AM
  • Re:Easy! by IntlHarvester (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:54PM
  • cdrecord rocks. by mrsam (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM
  • So this is... by Idaho (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:39PM
  • Re:AHRA tax == Government-paid insurance for corps by swb (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @06:08AM
  • Re:AHRA tax == Government-paid insurance for corps by swb (Score:1) Thursday June 07 2001, @04:17AM
  • Re:The market by warlock (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:40PM
  • Re:don't fret... (Score:3)

    by warlock (14079) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:14PM (#173809) Homepage
    First of all, Nero is not a freeware program. From what I gather it is a well known and versatile Windows program for CD authoring etc.

    Anyway, I didn't have to look for it, It came bundled with my YAMAHA CD-RW drive. I also got Easy CD Creator bundled with a cheap SCSI controller I bought for an old system. Considering that I don't use Windows, have no use for Windows CD authoring software and would never bother finding and downloading one, it was quite easy getting hold of it, wasn't it?

    Oh well, I'll just go on using mkisofs/cdrecord.
  • Re:don't fret... by Quikah (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:14PM
  • SloppyRant by Sloppy (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:04PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Sloppy (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:36PM
  • Re:SloppyRant by Sloppy (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @05:48AM
  • I mean, if a song is encoded in such a way that it has a "security bit" turned on (say, uh, bit 1 turned on means "copyrighted") and all the commercial burning software "respects" this convention, then either Nero has to refuse to burn as well or it's "circumventing a technology intended to protect copyright" and becomes illegal.

    No, because it is not reasonable or normal for CDR copying software to look inside the files that it copies. They have worked blindly for many many years. Thus, the bit cannot conceivable be said to "effectively control access".

    It's bascially way too late (by more than a decade) to establish a brand new convention for writing CDs.


    ---
  • Music CDRs and MP3 by neurojab (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @09:18PM
  • Maybe this is good by sharkey (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:03PM
  • Roxio have quite a problem by mattbee (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:21PM
  • There will be great demand for older software by GuNgA-DiN (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:03PM
  • Re:Fair Use by Pope (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:15PM
  • Define "authorized music" by bobdehnhardt (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:19PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by great om (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:50PM
  • not really by digitalunity (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @01:08AM
  • Re:And what legitimite gripe do you have? by Myxx (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @01:27AM
  • Re:Useful advice... by double_h (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:51AM
  • Re:How Would the Burning Software Know? by double_h (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:54AM
  • Re:Like anything else... by Levine (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:27PM
  • Re:cdrecord rocks. by DMaster0 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:41PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by majcher (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:41PM
  • Re:Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal. by Basje (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:54PM
  • by SEWilco (27983) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:39PM (#173830) Homepage Journal
    Are we talking about the Easy CD Creator 4-5 which has been destroying [theregister.co.uk] W2K and W95 [theregister.co.uk] machines? The above links say that the Microsoft instructions [microsoft.com] might not save your machine. Be careful out there.
  • Re:Music CD-Rs? by LocalH (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:38PM
  • CD burning? that's so 2000. by Ranger Nik (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:50AM
  • Re:I got your legitimate situation right here! by Mike Van Pelt (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:32PM
  • Re:Roxio's problem by Another MacHack (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:03PM
  • Re:And this stops me how? by shoor (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:15PM
  • not the end of the world... by CrudPuppy (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @06:58AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by e-gold (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:10PM
  • Re:Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal. by csbruce (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:56PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by Strider- (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:20PM
  • Re:What's the difference...? by Strider- (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:12PM
  • That all depends by overshoot (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:41PM
  • Re:Retailers by Rader (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @05:36AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Rader (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @05:42AM
  • iTunes by johnrpenner (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @06:59AM
  • by Tofuhead (40727) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:53PM (#173845)
    Let me see here...your new cd burning software will not burn songs unless they are digitally signed. In what way is this wrong?

    Let's say I want to create a mix CD from live concert MP3s. Since this is /., let's say we're talking about the Minibosses [minibosses.com], who distribute their unsigned MP3s freely. Will I be able to do it with Roxio's awesome software, without the cracks that will inevitably be released within a week of release?

    In the end, no matter how much I like to download music, I have never fooled myself into thinking I was "sharing" among friends. stealing is stealing.

    Stealing is stealing, but this isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. Theft is the act of taking something away from someone with the intent of depriving that person of possessing what you've taken. Copying zeroes and ones while leaving the original data intact is not stealing, and U.S. law (on a good day) has different laws regarding each. All those mp3 lawsuits you keep reading about are for copyright infringement, not theft.

    Don't get mad if the cops try to stop you. You whine about how stealing music makes you buy more music.

    No I don't. But treating gnutella like a 24-hour all-request radio station does help me make smarter purchasing decisions about my music.

    Now someone wants to make it easy for you and you go "no...but, I don't want to have to prove I bought it!" Give me one good scenario on how this is a BAD thing!

    How does adding a corpo-funded layer of complexity to CD burning software make it easier for me to buy more music? Sounds like all it does is make it easier for EMI and their colleagues to keep CD prices nutrageously high, just to fund more copy-protection schemes like this one.

    A question: How will Roxio prevent users from decoding MP3s into WAV/AIFFs, then burning them? Will it all of a sudden become morally wrong to burn arbitrary AIFFs? Somebody better tell the budding garage bands of the world that they are not welcome to use Roxio software.

    < tofuhead >
    --

  • Re:This "Screw the Man" stance is getting old by Steve B (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:29AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by dmaxwell (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:06AM
  • Re:Looks to me like ... by cicho (Score:1) Thursday June 07 2001, @01:48PM
  • Re:Easy! by edwdig (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:37PM
  • Tongue in cheek by Hard_Code (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @05:05AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by ddstreet (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:08PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by ddstreet (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:23PM
  • Re:Bad thing? (Score:5)

    by ddstreet (49825) <<ddstreet> <at> <ieee.org>> on Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:12PM (#173853) Homepage
    I think you have a seriously naive view of how musicians, and the music industry, works.

    Almost all the great musicians have become great before getting 'signed' and 'famous'. They get good by playing in small, cheap shows over and over and over. Then, once they can make good music, they become famous (usually when they are signed by a record company). They don't get signed, start getting paid big $, and then get good.

    In recent times, the record companies have noticed that 'sex sells' and started signing good-looking people with no or little talent. These people are paid insane amounts of money but I guarantee that their skill does not improve at all.

    If there is no money in music, then a lot of the best musicians will simply cease to exist.

    You are so very, very wrong. If you do some background research into past musicians, you will find that NONE of them became rich and famous before they became a great musician. They all became great musicians, then became rich and famous (some, maybe most, never became rich and only famous after they died).

    a lot of the best musicians will never happen unless they are able to practice all day, every day, and you can't do that unless you do it professionally.

    I see you're not a musician!

    And no, 200 years ago Mozart or whoever DID NOT do it on an amateur basis. They were paid by either royalty, upper class citizens or the church.

    Hmm...I think it's called 'a gig'? Believe it or not, there are a lot of musicians who are paid exactly that way today! And, Mozart was composing at the age of eight. Exactly how much cash do you think he was getting at that age?
  • Re:don't fret... by Dwonis (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:38PM
  • Don't like it? You don't have to use it. by solios (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:16PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Tackhead (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:01PM
  • by Tackhead (54550) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @12:58PM (#173857)
    To Do:

    Download all patches for Windows-based CD-burning software today.

    Install Linux tomorrow.

  • by Tackhead (54550) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:20PM (#173858)
    > The only response to all of the systems that will restrict your fair use (and I don't know if this scheme does) is to keep yer old stuff in working order! For once obsolescence(sp?) may be a GOOD thing, because they can't add copy-protect nonsense to the stuff you already own.

    Suppose they pulled the plug on useful hardware today. Every manufacturer on the planet goes to copy control, no exceptions, and nobody ever cracks it. (This is of course, impossible. But let's go with the doomsday scenario for a bit.)

    Given the number of ATs and XTs at my local surplus store, and the time it's taken to have them gradually replaced with 386s and 486s, I'd say we have at least a 10-15 year supply of useful hardware ahead of us.

    And given the age of some of the older pieces of hardware in my collection, I'd say we have at least another 10 years, probably more, before that supply of useful hardware starts to fail.

    If Copy Control Doomsday happened tomorrow, we'd have about 25 years before we had to worry. Spare parts purchased now, run for 6 months (to shake out any cases of "infant mortality") and stored in anti-static bags, will be just as good 25 years from now as they are today.

    For less than $1000, you can buy enough hard drive storage and multiple sets of spare parts to store 100G of MP3s and have at least one system capable of playing them back for the rest of your natural life.

  • by Tackhead (54550) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:07PM (#173859)
    > Let me see here...your new cd burning software will not burn songs unless they are digitally signed. In what way is this wrong?

    My old CD burning software didn't care about copy control.

    My old CD burning software did things my new CD burning software doesn't do.

    My old CD burning software was more functional - I could do more things with it than I can the new version.

    What's wrong about it is that there are people trying to pass off downgrades as upgrades.

    If your local Porsche dealer said "By the way, the new model Porsche has a rev-limiter hooked up to a GPS system that prevents you from going faster than 55 mph! It's so much better than last year's model!", you'd slap him silly, and you'd be right to slap him silly whether you ever intended to drive over the speed limit or not.

  • Useless by Shadowcaster (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:18PM
  • Re:Out of curiosity? by Bilestoad (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:49PM
  • Re:Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy by Bilestoad (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:51PM
  • Upgrade Me Not by vbrtrmn (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:23AM
  • So don't use their product... by stefanlasiewski (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:09PM
  • Overkillware (Score:3)

    by joq (63625) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:12PM (#173865) Homepage Journal

    "Our goal is to enable consumers to legally download and record music to CD in a consumer-friendly manner while fairly compensating copyright owners and creators," Duea said, noting that he hopes to see deployment by year's end.

    By that time, it is estimated that up to 5 billion blank CDs will have been shipped in the year in support of an estimated installed base of 100 million CD recorders in personal computers.

    So in essence this company thinks that either by offering a program to burn mp3's to cd will halt what they call illegal thievery? I doubt it in fact why would someone who allegedly steals cd's go out and buy this software when they could continue with their normal bypassing ways.

    Is it me or does this reak with this notion;
    • Roxio: "Let's sucker the RIAA into falling for our Overkillware program and make millions if they think people will stop what they think is illegal ripping off of artists."

    By creating these so called programs I personally think they sort of force people to go out and rip more since your sort of telling someone USE THIS TO DO THIS. People should have choices, and while I do see the pro's and con's of Napster I also see somebody somewhere along the lines of Roxio, the Artists complaining, RIAA, $INSERT_TARGET_HERE don't have a really good clue yet.

    Maybe these people should go and read Bruce Schneier's "The Futility of Digital Copy Prevention [cryptome.org]" article word for word, and come to a better conclusion instead of thinking some lawsuit, or some program is going to be the answer to people ripping mp3's and doing whatever the heck they want with them.
  • We Need Alternatives by Louis Savain (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:13PM
  • Re:er... by ZahrGnosis (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:07PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by deblau (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @12:26PM
  • Re:I don't think so by lizrd (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:49AM
  • Shameless Promotion: barchord.com by rtaylor (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:26PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by technos (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:45PM
  • This cannot be a good thing by grimmy (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @12:58PM
  • Re:The market by netsrek (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:30PM
  • Emotive Memes and Entertainment Control of Humans by Baldrson (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:43PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by innit (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:56PM
  • Coming from the BSOD of death company by Vicegrip (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:05PM
  • MP3 to CDDA for dummies by fred911 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:49PM
  • Re:can cdrecord or cdrdao on unix by fred911 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:03PM
  • Yeah, and...? by Moonshadow (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:08PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by treat (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:57PM
  • It's your music... by epeus (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @11:17PM
  • by Jens (85040) <jens-slashdot@s p a m f r e e m a i l.de> on Wednesday June 06 2001, @12:28AM (#173882) Homepage
    What I *do* with my copied files might be illegal (if I share them, which I don't), but I don't think you can easily distinguish between the physical act of making a backup copy of something, and making a backup copy you intend to distribute

    Exactly! And that is why you will simply not be able to do many legal things in the future, if the industry goes the RIAA/MPAA/SDMI/... way. Look: You are legally permitted to make VCR copies as many as you want. But - without extra effort - you cannot. Why? Because of Macrovision. You can legally buy a DVD, and legally buy a DVD Player, and the player will refuse to play your DVD, because it thinks that you might be in the wrong country. My MD player refuses to copy my own recordings digitally, because by allowing digital copies there is the slight possiblity of maybe me committing a sinister crime (i.e. distributing copyrighted music)!

    You would be perfectly legal if you could copy your CDs in the future, only you cannot. That is what "they" want, and if the industry complies, in 5 years CDs will be obsolete. What can be done with stupid laws (DMCA) will be done that way, and where they cannot castrate your basic human rights (freedom of speech for example) the industry will simply take away the technical means for exercising them, and sue every company who doesn't comply.

    Look at this article [cryptome.org] for details about what's wrong with copy protection.

    Remember: CDs are just about the only digital Hi-Fi media left that do not have some form of copy protection! They must be destroyed, because every CD owner is a potential criminal!

  • Re:There's better software now anyway.. by dgb2n (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:12PM
  • PC = Circumvention Device, therefore, Illegal. by Artemis3 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:17PM
  • Paranoia by Ruds (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:04PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by _Ludwig (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:05PM
  • What's the difference...? by Greylark (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:13PM
  • Let's say I own quite a few CDs that are no longer readable. This is happening quite often for some of the older CDs that I own -- KMFDM's "Naive", The Cult's "Electric", Meat Beat Manifesto's "Armed Audio Warfare", etc. Some songs won't play in a regular CD player and none will rip into MP3s.

    There's no way I'm going to buy these CDs again (even if they are still in print) because I already own them. Therefore, I downloaded MP3s of the songs off LimeWire and add them to my iTunes music library. As far as I'm concerned, downloading MP3s of songs I own is the same as inserting the disc and ripping them myself. In fact, converting your CDs into MP3s has a hundred advantages over discs, including being generally immune to the paint-leaking-though-the-plastic syndrome that seems to affect lesser discs.

    Now, I'm not going to explain to Roxio the above situation, and I don't want to have the hassle of dealing with some goofy digital signature "feature". I like to listen to music, not fsck around with digital signatures or whatever so that "the artist can be compensated" -- we all know that Roxio means it's the RIAA and the music labels that will be compensated.

    I expect that Roxio will add some annoying feature because that's the way they run their business. I've had to buy three copies of Toast ($99 ea): once for Mac OS 8 capability, once for Mac OS 8.5 capability, once for Mac OS 9 capability. Toast had no new features I wanted, but I had to buy to use the software with the new OS. This is crazy because Adaptec (now Roxio) never offer an upgrade price. "Oh, you upgraded your OS? Where's our $100?"

    I am now more than happy to use the free Disc Burner software that Apple provides. iTunes is better than the SoundJam/Toast hack, and it's much easier to burn indexed CDs with Disc Burner than Toast anyway.

    If nothing else, Apple's free disc burning software will make Roxio think twice about charging for a simple compatibility upgrade. It doesn't matter anyway; they lost me as a customer a long time ago.
  • Re:This is GREAT news! by kindbud (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:25PM
  • I don't get it by kindbud (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:30PM
  • Re:Isn't that a Windows app ?? by thunderbee (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:31PM
  • I don't think so (Score:4)

    by TomatoMan (93630) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:02PM (#173892) Homepage Journal
    I mean, if a song is encoded in such a way that it has a "security bit" turned on (say, uh, bit 1 turned on means "copyrighted") and all the commercial burning software "respects" this convention, then either Nero has to refuse to burn as well or it's "circumventing a technology intended to protect copyright" and becomes illegal.

    IANAL, etc, but right now copying all of the bits in a file is not illegal. If someone changes the meaning of bit 1147 at some point, do they suddenly and retroactively take ownership of bit 1147 on all of my own files? What about the 250 CDs of mine that I legally ripped to mp3 for my personal use over the past couple of weeks? Can that retroactively be made a crime?

    What I *do* with my copied files might be illegal (if I share them, which I don't), but I don't think you can easily distinguish between the physical act of making a backup copy of something, and making a backup copy you intend to distribute, etc. Squishy territory to be sure, but I think we're still safe as far as the actual backing up of program and data files goes. I would think that as long as copy programs can be used for legal purposes, their use can't be criminalized.

    TomatoMan
  • Fair Use by BoyPlankton (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:15PM
  • Re:Easy! by hawkbug (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:12PM
  • Music CD-Rs? by molo (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:15PM
  • Help, I'm being opressed by ahde (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:53PM
  • Re:Fair Use by ahde (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:04PM
  • Goodbye, Slashdot by Temporal (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @09:03PM
  • Re:Retailers by stu72 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:07PM
  • Just buy an older version....... by Ride-My-Rocket (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @12:37PM
  • The DIVX of Music by GPFCharlie (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:04PM
  • Roxio? by Coniagas (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:25PM
  • Just use older versions by browser_war_pow (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:19PM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by OmegaDan (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:00PM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by OmegaDan (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:43AM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by OmegaDan (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:14PM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by OmegaDan (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:47PM
  • Re:Me too by nido (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:43PM
  • who cares about easy cd creator? by Travoltus (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:59PM
  • Roxio's problem (Score:3)

    by Coward Anonymous (110649) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:00PM (#173910)

    Roxio can do whatever they want. They are not obligated to anyone for anything and that includes CD writing software. Why do you think they owe you their software?

    Anyway, there will always be a need for data CDs and there is no way to diffrentiate between kinds of data. As longs as those mp3 CD players keep coming out, this partnership is meaningless.

  • My main concern by {tele}machus_*1 (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:42AM
  • Re:This cannot be a good thing by hanksr (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:53PM
  • Re:Roxio's problem by Catbeller (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:21PM
  • Re:SloppyRant by Catbeller (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @06:45AM
  • Re:SloppyRant by Catbeller (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @02:01PM
  • Re:SloppyRant (Score:4)

    by Catbeller (118204) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:32PM (#173916) Homepage
    Then that's a fucked up law that should be repealed at the same time DMCA is. This has nothing to do with being a tool of the industry; it goes to the core of whether you think IP should exist or not. And that is a seperate issue.
    I believe that Fair Use was a part of the nation's laws since the 1700's, and I think it's a little late now to get rid of it. More precisely, non-commercial copies have always been legal with analog equipment, and only big money lobbying has bought laws that declare digital copies to be somehow different.

    "Intellectual property" is not a concept supported in law until quite recently, really -- think of it. The idea is that somehow this type of property is not a physical thing, something that the theft of which would deprive the owner of its use. IP is the incredible idea that patterns of bits are a piece of inventory that can be somehow taken from some metaphysical warehouse. Digital copying removes the scarcity factor from the market -- we must adjust to this somehow.

    The bands I listen to can barely even break even. In fact, quite a few of them lose money, and have to dump money from their day jobs into recording their albums.
    Why is that? Is it because the record companies and associated studios have near-monopoly on publication, marketing, and distribution, so they set incredible prices for which the bands must sell their souls? How is home recording doing this to them? Is it not in fact the record companies, not the listeners, that impoverish the bands?

    Just a couple of weeks ago I went to El Paso to see Angel Dust, Nevermore, and Opeth (and also some shitty band called God Forbid). Nevermore and Opeth had to cancel because the club didn't sell enough tickets so they couldn't pay the musicians enough.
    Maybe they didn't sell out because not enough people thought them a good enough draw to buy a ticket. No one promised musicians that they could make a living at it. Hell, the market is oversaturated with them -- there just aren't enough customers to make all of them wealthy, or even give them enough money to give up their day jobs. And let's not forget that the bulk of the money spent on concerts and albums go into the companies' pockets -- it takes a long, long time for a band to pay back its "bill" to the company. Intentionally.

    BTW, the only reason that law allows "non-commercial" propagation is that ignorant lawmakers (and perhaps the industry that bribed them as well) were so visionless that they thought non-commercial copying was small-time and even when it happened, it largely served to promote the music rather than reduce sales. They were wrong, as anyone who has seen Napster knows.
    What industry bribed congress to let us make copies?

    Sales are not down, an impressive thing considering that the economy has downturned. Napster did nothing perceptible to music sales. Not that this is an argument. Buggy whip manufacturers took a lasting hit from the auto industry.

    Congress made Fair Use copying legal because in classic theory, when I bought the record, tape, CD, whatever, I owned the item. I could copy it, sell it to someone (right of First Sale), set it on fire, write on its pristine surface. No one considered the owner of the media to be merely licensing "intellectual property". The owner owned the tape, the book, the CD. This was settled by the Supremes over a decade ago.

    What seems to be happening today is that the federal judiciary was seeded over two decades with pro-business judges who seem to think that law should enable businesses to make profits in a time-honored fashion even if that fashion is obsolete. IP is a concept that is being molded by the collective rulings of some really misguided jurists -- we are losing First Sale rights, Fair Use rights, and the concept that we actually own the CD or whatever we paid for at the store. This is not good, people.

  • Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows user by spullara (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:11PM
  • Yet another reason to use OSS by MrResistor (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:42PM
  • Decompressing lossy audio while burning it by yerricde (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:36PM
  • Hardware wears out. by yerricde (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:39PM
  • Why upgrade? by ahknight (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:01PM
  • Re:Retailers by ahknight (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by DennisZeMenace (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:50PM
  • Out of curiosity? by Lord_Pall (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:04PM
  • Re:Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows us by cqnn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:36PM
  • Re:This is good for consumers AND musicians by Tassach (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:33PM
  • Yes but... by Electric Angst (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:00PM
  • Keep driving people towards Linux.. Thanks guys! by -tji (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:33PM
  • Re:Easy! by darkwhite (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @09:19AM
  • Re:This is good for consumers AND musicians by netik (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:26PM
  • Re:And what legitimite gripe do you have? by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:21PM
  • Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:35PM
  • Unaware of choices = no choice for you by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:38PM
  • Re:What's the difference...? by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:41PM
  • Re:rip, mix, burn! by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:44PM
  • Have they EVER succeeded? by e_lehman (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:16PM
  • So use something else... by walt-sjc (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:08PM
  • Re:Easy! by kger (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @11:20AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by blirp (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:46PM
  • No one heard of cdrdao or cdrecord? by akiaki007 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:35PM
  • This is good for consumers AND musicians by Gothmolly (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:10PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by John_Booty (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:19PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by John_Booty (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:23PM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by John_Booty (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @11:09PM
  • I don't really care if companies like Roxio will stop making ripping-friendly software... as a zillion other posters have pointed out, we can always use other software (or other OS's, if need be).

    Here's the thing, though, that's scary. When will they start going after the HARDWARE makers? If I was an bastard record company exec, I would go after the CD-ROM drive manufacturers and fight against the digital audio extraction (DAE) feature. Because without that, you can't rip songs directly from a CD. Sure, you could do an analog rip, but that's a pain in the ass (and usually sounds like ass).

    Are there any uses for DAE, besides ripping music? It's seems to me that's pretty much it's sole purpose... used to be, in the days of 8x (and lesser) cd-rom drives, a lot of drives didn't even support DAE and they worked fine for everything but ripping.

    So, to me, based on the $#$%#$ evil laws that we have in America it would be hard to defend the inclusion of the DAE feature. Not saying that's right, but basically, from a functional standpoint... DSS:DVD = DAE:CD. You know what I mean? Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong in a legal sense. I hope I am. :)

    One good thing: the hardware manufacturers WILL fight efforts by the RIAA, et al, to defend their hardware's ability to rip music... because as another poster pointed out, ripping/burning/downloading music is pretty much the only new "killer app" for PC's these days.


    http://www.bootyproject.org [bootyproject.org]
  • Big Deal? by Judas96' (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM
  • Re:SloppyRant by clare-ents (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:06AM
  • Sell, sell, sell! (Score:5)

    by revbob (155074) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:13PM (#173948) Homepage Journal
    Roxio's strategic alliance with EMI follows their strategic alliance with Microsoft in Windows Media Player 7.

    When you get into bed with a giant, you gotta expect he'll roll over during the night. Roxio's management seems to be so ignorant of a fact that's left a string of empty buildings from Fisherman's Wharf to Los Gatos that they've gotten into bed with two giants.

    This is called the Dance of the Doomed.

    The only sensible advice to shareholders of ROXI is contained in the subject line.

    If you don't own any shares in Roxio -- and why you'd have held any after their announcement of the alliance with MSFT escapes me -- and if you don't use their Easy CD Creator/Direct CD -- another "in God's name, why?" kind of practice --this is a NOP. Roxio won't be here to worry about this time next year.

    And if there's anybody on /. who didn't already know that Windows and Office XP were going to be very nasty propositions -- helLOOOOOOO!

  • by AntiNorm (155641) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:29PM (#173949)
    CD players refuse to play audio off a "non-music" (really non-audio) CD-R. You can still copy files off a CD-ROM drive, but the play function on it or on a stereo only would work with an audio CD-R.

    Not exactly. The stereos that have been coming out lately that can burn CDs will refuse to use non-audio CDs. But CD players (including these stereos IINM) do still play music off of non-audio CDRs. Heck, I have a regular, non-audio CDR in my CD player right now, and it works just fine.

    ---
    I am getting damn sick of constantly losing karma for no reason.
  • Re:Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy by bigdavex (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:16PM
  • Re:can cdrecord or cdrdao on unix by DeeKayWon (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:19PM
  • Re:The market (Score:3)

    by suss (158993) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:05PM (#173952)
    No, BETA lost out because of the booming porn industry.
    Sony apparently refused to let pornos be released on BETA, so VHS took over.


    You're confusing BetaMax with VCC 2000. As far as i know BetaMax 'lost' for the same reason MCA failed; licensing fees.
  • Re:Easy! (Score:3)

    by suss (158993) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:10PM (#173953)
    use another CD burner, or don't upgrade Toast. Roxio loses money. Fuck 'em.

    I'm still using the Adaptec Easy CD Creator 3.5c that came with my Plextor burner, and for a very good reason; 4.0 not only managed to totally fuck up my cd's but insisted i install IE 5.5, which i refused to do. Why do i need IE 5.5 to burn CD's??? Also, Feurio [feurio.com] is much better for burning music cd's...
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by jayhawk88 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:49PM
  • Windows XP? by kruczkowski (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:16PM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by monkeyfamily (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:11PM
  • This is scary... by MsGeek (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:04PM
  • Re:Goodbye, Slashdot by shippo (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:12AM
  • Re:Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal. by beable (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:09AM
  • Actually, I think Ferrari did this by arete (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:20AM
  • Re:Easy! by loraksus (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:03PM
  • Re:I don't think so by loraksus (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:41PM
  • Re:Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows us by loraksus (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:45PM
  • Re:Easy! by loraksus (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @09:42PM
  • Parable of democracy of goods (or something) by loraksus (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:37PM
  • Re:Music CD-Rs by andyh1978 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:17PM
  • Music CD-Rs (Score:4)

    by andyh1978 (173377) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:14PM (#173967) Homepage
    This won't make a heck of a lot of difference. All it'll be is integration with whatever subscription Napster-esque service that they may or may not offer in the future, and possibly some blocks on burning audio files from Easy CD Creator.

    Easy way around that; use another CD writing program.

    With the problems that Easy CD has been having [theregister.co.uk], that's probably a good idea anyway.

    The reference to the 'Music CD-Rs' is another of the music industry's daft ideas. From the CD-R FAQ: http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-17 [cdrfaq.org]

    Subject: [7-17] What's the difference between "data" and "music" blanks? (2001/03/12)


    "Consumer" stand-alone audio CD recorders require special blanks. See section (5-12) for details. There is no difference in quality or composition between "data" blanks and "music" blanks, except for a flag that indicates which one it is. It's likely that "music" blanks are optimized for recording at 1x, since anything you record "live" is by definition recorded at 1x. You don't have to use "music" blanks to record music on a computer or "professional" stand-alone audio CD recorder, but nothing will prevent you from doing so.

    The "music" blanks are more expensive than the "data" blanks because a portion of the price goes to the music industry. The specifics vary from country to country.

    Some manufacturers have on occasion marked low-quality data discs as being "for music", on the assumption that small errors will go unnoticed. Make sure that, if you need the special blanks, you're getting the right thing.

    So potentially expect to see Easy CD whinge if you try and burn audio onto an ordinary data CD. I doubt they'd be silly enough to block it, but pop up a warning and your average user gets worried enough to think maybe they ought to buy those 'Music CD-Rs' after all.
  • Windows XP - integrated CD-writing by VividU (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:49PM
  • Re:Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows us by VividU (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:05PM
  • Re:Retailers by kz45 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:46PM
  • Re:Retailers by kz45 (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @11:26AM
  • Me too by IamLarryboy (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:30PM
  • Re:The industry's got you already by Xylantiel (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:15PM
  • Re:SloppyRant by Xylantiel (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @09:01PM
  • by Xylantiel (177496) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:52PM (#173975)
    It only becomes illegal if I give that cassette to someone else who hasn't purchased the music in some form already.
    Nope, they've got you fooled. This is expessly allowed by the Audio Home Recording Act as long as it is "non-commercial", which I take to mean you don't expressly expect either money or other copyrighted material in exchange. Don't believe me, read the relevant section of copyright law [cornell.edu] (several times to cut through the legal language.)

    This strengthens your argument, since they have already succeeded in restricting your exercise of fair use without you even knowing it.

  • Re:Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal. by Twiles (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:00PM
  • X CD Roast by gnugnugnu (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:50PM
  • hrm... by BOFslime (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:50PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Reality Master 101 (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:07PM
  • This is the right principle, the only question is the execution. If you think this is bad, then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

    I want to be able to pay the artists money for their songs. Up until now, there simply is no way to give money if you want to download an electronic version. If they allow me to pay a reasonable price to download a song, then I will gladly pay it.

    The only question is whether they are going to put restrictions on what I can do with my purchased song for my personal use. If there is any copy restriction, then that obviously is not acceptable.

    But this knee-jerk reaction to any kind of paying for music is just stupid. If there is no money in music, then a lot of the best musicians will simply cease to exist. Yes, we will always have amateur musicians, but a lot of the best musicians will never happen unless they are able to practice all day, every day, and you can't do that unless you do it professionally. There is a reason why professional athletes, for example, will kick almost any amateur's ass.

    And no, 200 years ago Mozart or whoever DID NOT do it on an amateur basis. They were paid by either royalty, upper class citizens or the church. In fact, most artists were compensated in that way. Art and money have always gone hand in hand. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive (and impractical).


    --

  • Re:Goodbye, Slashdot by Suppafly (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:12PM
  • Re:Isn't that a Windows app ?? by Suppafly (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:17PM
  • Re:The market by Suppafly (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:28PM
  • rip, mix, burn! by firewort (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:14PM
  • Reminds me of .... by Archangel Michael (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:17PM
  • extortion vs. added value by dangerboi (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @09:36PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Happy Monkey (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:41PM
  • Re:This is good, unless you're into stealing... by tester13 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:44PM
  • So how does this affect me? by Kazymyr (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:08PM
  • Re:This is good, unless you're into stealing... by GemFire (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:08PM
  • Re:er... by GemFire (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:16PM
  • Re:Paranoia by ichimunki (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:22PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by sulli (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:23PM
  • CD burning indeed! by sulli (Score:2) Wednesday June 06 2001, @08:00AM
  • Easy! (Score:4)

    by sulli (195030) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @12:59PM (#173995) Journal
    use another CD burner, or don't upgrade Toast. Roxio loses money. Fuck 'em.
  • Retailers (Score:4)

    by sulli (195030) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:01PM (#173996) Journal
    Anybody else notice how stores like Walmart and Target are pushing the Music CD-Rs more and more? Hmmmm.

    This really is the new killer app. Think of Apple's "Rip, Mix, Burn" ads. Of course the industry is running scared ... serves 'em right.

  • Re:don't fret... by hhg (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:04PM
  • Re:What's the difference...? by Warin (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:08PM
  • Re:Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy by Warin (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:25PM
  • Oh No! They're doing the right thing! LOL by dh003i (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:07PM
  • Re:I got your legitimate situation right here! by Jaysyn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:41PM
  • Competition by Jaysyn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:56PM
  • Re:Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows us by Jaysyn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:09PM
  • Eureka! by Jaysyn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:15PM
  • Re:How Would the Burning Software Know? by Jaysyn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:59PM
  • Re:I don't get it by Jaysyn (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:06PM
  • Re:Easy! by marcovje (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @01:41AM
  • Re:Easy! by GroovBird (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @12:56AM
  • Re:I don't care about the software... by tswinzig (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:54PM
  • They tried that already by phr1 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:42PM
  • Re:read plz by tesserakt (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:03PM
  • by aussersterne (212916) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:53PM (#174012) Homepage
    All you know-it-all, pole-in-ass types are so sure that you're morally superior, that every Napster or Gnutella user is out there stealing music. Well, there are LEGAL uses for Napster that DO involve downloading lots of music.

    FOR EXAMPLE:

    I own about 1,000 CDs. I own a tablet PC which I carry around with me nearly everywhere I go and which doubles as my memopad-sized MP3 walkman. Now I could spend hours encoding songs from CD to MP3 each morning so that I can carry around the music that I want, but that's not really time-effective. What do I do? I download the songs that someone else has already encoded. And what's more, sometimes in the middle of the day I find myself wanting that one particular song that I don't have loaded into the PC at the moment. What do I do? Pop on to one of the OpenNap servers and grab the song. If some of you had your way, I'd have to run home, find the CD, encode the track on my desktop PC, IR it to my tablet and run back to work -- or forego listening to it. Buy why should I have to forego listening to it if I've already BOUGHT the damn thing?

    I've bought every CD that ever contained a song I liked. I can show you the matching CD from every song I've ever downloaded. I'm not stealing, and I resent the implication that just because I use the MP3 format or visit Napster/OpenNap sites I'm some sort of criminal.

    And just to prove that I'm ON TOPIC, I've even burned a few MP3 CDs that I downloaded. How is this legal? Well, I've been through some albums (Black Crowes SHMC, Fiona Apple Tidal, etc.) 4+ times, buying the damn CD each time, because they've been scratched so much they start to skip. Now for the ones I really like, where quality is really important, I will always buy the CD again (paying royalties EACH time, even though I'm only one listener), but for some of them which aren't worth THAT much to me, I'll just grab the non-working tracks off the net and re-burn the entire CD with the skipping tracks replaced. Voila. FIXED CD. That I already paid for.

    And aside from these black-and-white issues, I don't see ANY problem with grabbing an MP3 from a CD I own and sending it to a friend in e-mail with "Hey man, check this track out!" in the message body. I lend my CDs out. Sometimes friends copy them to tape, I'm sure. That doesn't give me any guilt pangs and neither do MP3s.
  • Software Downgrading- sometimes older is better by Beatlebum (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:39PM
  • Re:Easy! (Score:5)

    by jacklf (214580) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:18PM (#174014)
    How quickly we forget? Some days the mob mentality on Slashdot gets ridiculous. Less than a month ago [slashdot.org] folks were fishing for moderation points by saying "We need to go out and buy Easy CD Creator to support Roxio" (for switching to freedb). Now we have to [insert favorite action expletivehere] them?

    So does this mean all the folks who claimed they were going to go out to buy a copy should now burn/sledgehammer their CD?

    For me, this is an awesome idea. If I can download and burn individual songs (at a realistic "per song" price) then I don't have to pay for the entire album. I like the idea of singles (since often the rest of an album is not very appealing); however, with singles you have this useless CD with like 3 copies of the SAME song on it plus a slightly bloated price. If I can pay to DL it and create my own CD of "this month's favorites" then I don't have this annoying stack of CD's sitting in my closet.
  • What About Those Who... by NeuroManson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:08PM
  • Re:Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows us by Technician (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @11:55PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by cprael (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:02PM
  • REALLY good:
    I can stream .wav files right from a site over my broadband connection through my Easy CD Creator software and onto a blank disc with one click. I'm billed a reasonable amount of money, say $7 - $10 (after all, I'm paying for the transportation and fabrication).

    Artist, studio get paid. Roxio keeps selling software subscriptions. Consumer gets a cheap, easy alternative to buying at the store. Everyone wins.

    REALLY bad
    I have to pay the studio *anytime* I burn a .wav file to a CD, even the ones I already own. Now, I pay for the "privilege" of making my own Best of Iron Maiden, Vol. 1 - 4 because I don't feel like lugging 20 discs around in my car all the time. I pay for the "privilege" of having a burned copy of Seventh Son of a Seventh Son at work, so I can keep the original at home.

    Consumer pay more money to legally use media she has already purchased. She seeks out less restrictive alternatives. Roxio loses money she may have spent on software. Artist, studio loses money she might have spent for an album that is worth $8 to her but certainly not $16. She considers boycotting studio and Roxio who tried to fuck her through ill-conceived business plan to bleed legitimate consumers of more money. Everybody loses.


    -------

  • "Payment"? Excuse me, I *already* payed. by flimpy (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:08PM
  • Thank for the heads up. by BlueCoder (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @08:42PM
  • CD burning Will Never Be The Same by rrdejay (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM
  • Re:Easy! by mother_superius (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:49AM
  • er... by wrinkledshirt (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:28PM
  • The market by clinko (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:01PM
  • Not circumvention by Kalabajoui (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:58PM
  • Do you have a link to the Windows version? by Kalabajoui (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:20PM
  • Re:Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal. by Sterling Anderson (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:35AM
  • The key to it all by thelexx (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:24PM
  • Fudge Toast and Easy CD Creator by Apreche (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:44PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Apreche (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:48PM
  • Merc's Got the Story Too by Max Entropy (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:59PM
  • Is someone over stepping their bounds? by swoopx (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:30PM
  • Re:Looks to me like ... by Kharny (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @01:06AM
  • Music CD-Rs by squiggleslash (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:08PM
  • This is GREAT news! by Frobozz0 (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:50PM
  • Re:Sell, sell, sell! by ryanvm (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:19PM
  • Hold me. I'm scared. by MasterOfDisaster (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:44PM
  • A way to send artists money by dave_mcmillen (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @06:44AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Pembers (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:37AM
  • paramilitary by gelcaps (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @12:54AM
  • Where is Gates in this? by kireK (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:21AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by Kibo (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:42PM
  • Recording "authorized" music?! by Quietti (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:19PM
  • it's a conspiracy! by IanA (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:40PM
  • Only two things to say: by ImaLamer (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:11AM
  • Re:Freedom != buying absolute property rights fall by jordandeamattson (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:33PM
  • Re:This is good, unless you're into stealing... by jordandeamattson (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:51PM
  • This is good, unless you're into stealing... by jordandeamattson (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:36PM
  • by Gruneun (261463) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM (#174049)
    This will stop only the people who are ignorant to their options or too lazy to find a different route.

    If an mp3 search engine gets axed (or a file-trading service has its hands tied) it doesn't slow the people who use IRC or FTP. Sure it's less convenient for most, but it doesn't stop the practice.

    If Adaptec handicaps their product, it will only make other burning software more appealing. If you're reading slashdot, you're probably capable of finding an alternative.
  • Re:Easy! by ZaneMcAuley (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:07PM
  • Re:Just use older versions by aredubya74 (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:37PM
  • Re:Artistry does not require millions of dollars. by EllisDees (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:27AM
  • antitrust? by regexp (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:54PM
  • Re:Easy! by cavemanf16 (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:55AM
  • Re:I don't think so by cavemanf16 (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:59AM
  • PHCK-EM... ALL - stock up on the older burners.... by BBowden18 (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @05:51AM
  • Re:Bad thing? by imaginate (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:16PM
  • Re:Easy! (Score:5)

    by DennyK (308810) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:08PM (#174058)
    How quickly we forget? Some days the mob mentality on Slashdot gets ridiculous. Less than a month ago folks were fishing for moderation points by saying "We need to go out and buy Easy CD Creator to support Roxio" (for switching to freedb). Now we have to [insert favorite action expletivehere] them?

    So does this mean all the folks who claimed they were going to go out to buy a copy should now burn/sledgehammer their CD?


    I had the same thought when I read this article... "Roxio good! No, wait, Roxio evil! No, Roxio good! No, evil! Good! Evil! Ow! My head hurts..." ;)

    For me, this is an awesome idea. If I can download and burn individual songs (at a realistic "per song" price) then I don't have to pay for the entire album. I like the idea of singles (since often the rest of an album is not very appealing); however, with singles you have this useless CD with like 3 copies of the SAME song on it plus a slightly bloated price. If I can pay to DL it and create my own CD of "this month's favorites" then I don't have this annoying stack of CD's sitting in my closet.

    I agree...that would be nice, if the record companies were really interested in selling their hit single tracks for BYO CDs for a fair price. Unfortunatly, I doubt that that is going to happen under the current system. Why not? Think about this...today, a record company can rake in about $18 per purchase for a hit single, or maybe two. All the Top 40 groups usually have CDs with one or two good songs and a bunch of crap. Most people who buy those CDs are buying them for those one or two songs. If all of those songs were available individually for sale for a "fair" price (which I would define as $1.50 US or less per track, since the "average" CD has about 12 tracks and costs about $18), now what's going to happen? Well, the record company will probably sell just as many, if not more, copies of Boy Band's Big Hit as they would with a premade album...but now they're only taking in a buck or two per sale. Even if there are two or three "hit" tracks in an album, that's still only about $1-$2 for each track, so even the people who buy all three are only spending $3-$6. Very few people are going to waste their time and money on the other nine or ten crap songs that would normally be in an album.

    Now, if the band has gone the traditional method of making an entire album with two good songs and ten crappy songs, the record company has paid them to make music that isn't going to sell under this new distribution method. And if the band or record company decides to forego the "crap" since it's no longer neccesary to fill an album with the new single-track purchase system, well, this band might turn out, say, half a dozen good songs in their lifetime, just like they would if they were using the traditional method, but now the record company is only making $1-$2 per sale on each hit instead of the $9-$18 per sale that they would get per hit by selling albums with one or two of those hit songs on them. This sucks for the record companies, because it's much easier (and cheaper) to squeeze a one-week "Top 20" hit song or two out of a random boy-band or girl group than it is to find and cultivate a group with real talent who can produce a lot of good music. And no matter how the hits fall, the record company's profit per hit has still been cut by a huge percentage.

    I've always figured that this is another reason the record companies don't like Napster, et. al. Now, any potential buyer can go online and download the full tracks from an album, and then find out that only one or two are good. And since they probably don't feel like paying $18 to get the one song they really want, they'll just download it from Napster and live with the lower quality of MP3.

    This is why the record companies are going to make their pay online music services so limited. Since they might be losing those profits on each hit song, they're going to make up for it by forcing users to "rent" the music by only letting them play the songs they download if they keep paying their monthly fees. This continuous income stream makes up for the profit lost because they are selling fewer $18 CDs with one good song.

    DennyK
  • Re:The industry tends to prevent fair use. by SpeelingChekka (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:16PM
  • 'audio cds' by linuxpng (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @02:27AM
  • This Could be a Pilot Project by robbyjo (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:10PM
  • Re:Bad thing? (Score:3)

    by terrymr (316118) <terrymr&gmail,com> on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:27PM (#174062)
    I can see the day coming when we have to pay several times for the same file.

    One when you download it, once to write it to cd, again to put it on your personal mp3 player.

    I have a question though :

    right now napster is viewed as committing contributary copyright infringement by assisting others to copy without paying.

    If we're paying to write the song to cd then I'm not infringing by definition so does the napster issue go away ?
  • Re:Bad thing? by dswan69 (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @01:36AM
  • Communist Pigs by Jesus IS the Devil (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @02:08AM
  • Re:Moderate this down by Jesus IS the Devil (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @01:41PM
  • How Would the Burning Software Know? by morpheus0 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:46PM
  • Re:Decompressing lossy audio while burning it by mancxvi (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @10:12PM
  • Re:Bad thing? by petong (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:38PM
  • don't fret... (Score:5)

    by PorcelainLabrador (321065) on Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:00PM (#174069) Homepage
    that's why we have other programs like Nero out there. So what if Joe-Schmoe uses Easy CD Creator and has to pay a small fee. Your average computer geeks will still be using Nero or some 'other' program out there.

    Really, when you get down to it, this could be a big mistake. Nothing could drive more people to a different product than creating some sort of burn-payment scheme. Nero and others like it should be happy.

  • Missing the point? by wackybrit (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @06:55PM
  • Re:Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy by malraz (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:01PM
  • Proposed EULA by ez76 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:11PM
  • Another by Reckless Visionary (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:21PM
  • Quality? by Cul8rZ (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @01:24PM
  • Re:Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal. by nilstar (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:46AM
  • I won't pay! by sapphire_x (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:07AM
  • Re:This cannot be a good thing by sapphire_x (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:22AM
  • Re:Looks to me like ... by sapphire_x (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @07:54AM
  • Not circumvention by mamba-mamba (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @05:01PM
  • Re:Keep yer old systems folks! by $hotgun (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:41AM
  • Re:Looks to me like ... by pPnf (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:05PM
  • It's hard to squeeze toothpaste back into the tube by blang (Score:2) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:17PM
  • Re:read plz by w_crossman (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:17PM
  • I'D Rather by alainsane (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @04:34AM
  • this is an additional capability by m08593 (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @02:14PM
  • Re:Windows XP? by 1D10T (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @03:53AM
  • In my opinion... by limaCAT (Score:1) Wednesday June 06 2001, @08:54AM
  • Re:Music CD-Rs by brendano (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:28PM
  • Re:Have they EVER succeeded? by brendano (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @04:40PM
  • So? by p.bes (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @03:44PM
  • FYI timothy by pmtetsuo (Score:1) Tuesday June 05 2001, @07:20PM
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