H1B Tech Visa Workers Being Deported From U.S.

John Murdoch writes "Tens of thousands of programmers, database specialists, and other technical workers come to the United States each year on "H1B" visas--temporary visas for workers with in-demand technical skills. The key word in that sentence is temporary. Congress began the program six years ago, and the H1B visas have a six-year time limit--meaning that thousands of H1B holders are reaching the end of their visas, and they do not have any hope of getting permanent resident status. The Washington Post has an excellent story about the problem (click here for story as posted on MSNBC). These H1B residents have invested six years of their lives here--they have homes, families, and careers here. There is a generally acknowledged (or perhaps, generally alleged) shortage of programmers and other tech workers in the U.S. The federal government is presently working with Congress to approve legislation increasing the number of H1B workers that can come to the U.S.--while simultaneously sending currently-employed workers home. "

AIG and Syntel - The false carrot and the stick

First a Disclaimer - I've worked both with and for John over the years.

The H1B visa problem is very real, but there are more than two sides to this issue. Some of the better programmers I've ever worked with were in this country on H1B visas, as were some of the worst.

Often times, the employers who bring in people on H1B visas treat these people as virtual slaves. The worst case of this was a woman who ended up taking here case to court. It seems he employer was sexually harassing her, and she complained. The company ended up shutting down, and she ended up deported.

That said, there are a lot of unscrupulous "Visa Brokers" out there. The promise their future employees "Yeah, the visas are always converted. Here, just study for these certification exams, and we'll get you in". In turn, they promise the companies in the us "I can supply you with experienced workers, cheap." Note: Not all of them do this.

The WORST case of this was AIG with Syntel. AIG decided to fire 4500 of their employees, and "Outsource" all their work to Syntel. Syntel brought in all H1B replacement workers, paying them below prevailing wage (there were fines issued). Further, the 4500 employees were told that they would get no severance pay unless they trained their replacements.

Luckily, I was in a different office (with 11 other people) and we were NOT let go. I had to work with these replacements. Most of these people were promised by Syntel that they would be able to stay. The few who DID have their visas converted to green cards left Syntel within a few weeks! Most of the replacements were horrid, and were being treated horribly.

Now, what should we do about this?

Simple - eliminated the H1B visa, and let a smaller number of these people in on green cards! Unless you are a Native American, you, or one of your ancestors, was an immigrant to this country. It's been one of our strengths. Remember "The Melting Pot"? We have to have it back. The people with these skills would be a terrific addition to our country.

Let's stop dangling a false carrot. Either let them in, or DON'T

My point is made... unfortunately.

Recently, in responding to an article on the technology worker "shortage," I decried the fact that workers in the technology sector are unwilling to organize for their own benefit. I also pointed out that H1-B visas were bad, the main reason being that they create an exploitable workforce that has no right to vote and which has the fact of potential deportation hanging over their heads.

I was accused of xenophobia for this point of view, but the truth is I have had more contact with the Immigration and Naturalization Service than many people because my wife is Thai. One of the things I immediately saw about the H1-B visas was the fact that they allow people only long-term temporary residence in the United States. Think about this, if you moved to a state and lived there for six years, would you still consider your old state "home?" I wouldn't, I would certainly have made friends and set down roots after living someplace for six years. I'd want to have a say in elections (which would effect me) and otherwise be part of the community. People on H1-B visas are not given these opportunities. You could say that people on H1-B visas are "second class citizens" but the truth is even worse, they are not citizens at all. I assume, from my own life, that they must deal with the INS breathing down their neck, demanding that form X be filled out on time if they want to work and permit B recieved before they can travel.

The real truth of this is that it is cynical politicians using the economic fears and, yes, xenophobia of the populace to "divide and conquer." We should all accept the idea of foriegn workers, and once we've accepted the idea, we should realize that granting citizenship to these people (if they want it) is best for all Americans, not just the ones who were born elsewhere.

I can only compare people's attitudes toward H1-B visas, the ones who are glad that they are harsh and inevitably temporary, to the attitude of people who, upon hearing that a blight is affecting crops all over the country say, "Good, I hate those damn farmers anyway." The same percentage (in fact a greater percentage) of our workforce will be foriegn born whether we offer people H1-B's or citizenship. If a person is a citizen, they have the same stake in this country as the rest of us, the same need to protect our civil liberties, the same desire to see that good people are elected to public office. On the other hand, people who are denied citizenship have every reason to be apathetic. Whether they want to speak out on technological issues or not, their voices have less weight with people in power. They certainly can't help elect people who are savvy on tech issues if they can't vote. I often see people posting, "write congress about DMCA, write congress about UCITA," non-citizens have very little reason to care about such things, and would not be listened to if they did.

One last point: It may be that given the choice between an American citizen and an H1-B worker, some companies will choose the H1-B worker. It is possible that one of the reasons they choose an H1-B worker is because these people can be more easily exploited. (I'm not saying it is true, I'm just saying the possibility exists.) However, if the same two workers were both citizens, the only thing the employers could take into account would be competance. If you support citizenship for foriegn workers, you are making certain that you are competing for jobs based on competance and not on your prospective employers desire for the worker who is most easily exploited.

Re:It is not as funny on the other side

There's a difference between just plain meanness, which you describe very eloquently, and the frustration of paying a lot of money for school, only to discover that you won't get the kind of instruction and help you expect from your teachers, because they can't communicate with you. Teaching is about communication, and if you aren't able to communicate effectively with the students, then you aren't qualified to be a teacher, and trying to do a job you simply aren't equipped for is bound to be painful on both sides. But, in my opinion, you should never have been in that position.

H1B, A Necessary Evil?

I have worked with people on H1 visas. Thanks to them we were able to get extraordinary talent, which we couldn't otherwise get at any price. They are still crap. There is no reason to withold real green cards from these people. The company held their visas over their heads like some ComBlock country from decades ago. I was ashamed to be an American and face these people.

1Alpha7

OK. HERE'S WHY OLD IT WORKERS GET FIRED.

It is NOT for a lack of skills and it's not because younger people will work for less money.

The fact is, most tech jobs (sysadmin, programmer, web developper, etc.) are not 40hr/week jobs. They're demanding 60, 70, 80 hour per week jobs. And they're all "salaried" jobs, which means no extra pay for extra hours.

Now young people fresh out of college, and immigrant H1B visa workers have little else in their life to occupy them. Thus they are able to accept the abusive work hours employers expect them to put out.

But now something new has happened. The first BIG wave of IT industry workers are just now starting to reach their upper 30s and 40s.

What happens when a 70 hour/week employee gets married or has a kid?

Suddenly he or she has to cut back working hours to 50 or 40 hours per week as a responsibiliy to their family.

The employer sees this as MAJOR SLACKING OFF BY SOME OLD GRAYING BASTARD. So he's either FIRED. Or sees his salary cut 40% and quits because he can't support his family on a pay cut like that and is forced to QUIT.

The employer then puts an ad out and discovers that lots more older IT workers are applying than years ago when he put that last ad out. These older workers suffer from the same problem... having a life.

So suddenly the employer screams that there is a "shortage of IT workers" and demands the government allow more H1B visa workers in so he can continue his abusive employment practises.

Well, IMO, it's time employers are FORCED to play fair and give up their extremely abusive practises. Naturally they won't want to as screwing people over is highly lucrative and profitable.

Well, it looks like the party may finally be almost over. Can't say I'm not glad to hear it. And I can't say I feel any pity for poor staff strapped IT shops.

Lack of employees NOT the problem

I spent a month in India recruiting programmers to come to the states on the H1 program. I didn't really feel it was right to do this but it was a once in a lifetime experience.

The problem is not that we have a shortage of workers. The problem is that companies can pay people who come from overseas LESS than they can pay a citizen. As opposed to paying a US programmer 80k or so a year (at least in Georgia I would gather) they can bring someone over from another country and pay them 45 or 50k. They won't bitch about salary because if they go unemployed, they have a hsort time period in which they can get rehired or they have to leave the country. Besides that, as one poster said, any other company doesn't want to bother with the visa paperwork.

Give me your poor, your tired your huddled masses.

An explanation first, by all rights, I "should" be an anti-alien proponent but I am not, actually quite the opposite. And here's why and how I think a lot of this argument is based on people who are afraid of competition, don't understand what this country is actually based on and want everything for free.

As a Boy Scout I was taught from a very young age to love America, and then doubling up and being in JROTC taught me the same. I was practically raised in a para-military uniform. I even joined the National Guard while I was still in HS, matter of fact I spent my Junior-Senior summer in Basic training(That's Basic as in Hut-Two-Three-Fower, not If-Then-Else). As I hadn't actually experienced any of the world at that point, I was an extreme Xenophobe and believed that America should close it's borders and put guns on top of them. (BTW I already started my love of Computers in the BSA when I earned my Computing merit badge around 1988 or thereabouts :-) and helped fix Sergeants computers in my AIT immediately after HS graduation.)

After wandering around for a year after HS I went Active Duty. THIS CHANGED EVERYTHING!!! After spending a short tour in Bosnia I realized, #1 America rocks. #2 War sucks.

America is absolutely the best country in the world, even for all of it's problems. 99.9% of the people never have to worry about getting shot at, being starved, being raped by government order, being forced to work for the government. Can you imagine what it is like to wake up and wonder who is in charge today, and if they like the group you are in enough to let you live through the day? Many of these former Soviet countries are DIRT POOR and the only chance they ever will have to be something other than poor is to come to America! Most of THOSE WHO COME HERE ON THESE VISA'S ARE NOT FREE RIDERS LOOKING TO SCAM THE AMERICAN PUBLIC!!! If you were in their shoes where would you want to be? And if you are from one of these countries, you should realize I am not knocking your country. America IS the land of opportunity, that's why you're here. But, the only way we can truly grow as a nation and as a people is by continuing to welcome those who not only want to be with us, but who want to make our country prosper and share their knowledge with us.

I know many H1B's who are currently being manipulated by the system. People who came to America, with HIGH level degrees, who have studied for years with the dream of coming to America and becoming one of us and adding to our rich heritage. But they are stuck not knowing where they will be tomorrow, they are not much better off then they were in their home country. If it wasn't for these "foreigners" coming to America, I would still be working for a trucking company. I would never have ever tried to become a Programmer. I always thought it was for people who were super intelligent and gifted. IF these people who came from America were out to rape the American public do you think that they would spend the time sitting down with some Average Joe and teaching him how to program and think logically? NO, they would have been happy to see me toil at something I hated and never would have lifted a finger to intervene. All of this with no promise of ANYTHING in return.

I witness the suffering of my friends everyday. I know how hard they have worked and how frustrated they are with their hands tied. Why don't we believe and follow our own cherished words? Why don't we continue the tradition of a proud people with open hearts who know that the way to victory is not to become afraid and close-minded, but to welcome the thoughts and ideas of a varied people.

The point I am trying to make it that if you are afraid of losing your jobs to people who are more qualified, dedicated and harder working than yourselves. Then maybe you should re-evaluate your own dedication? Freedom doesn't mean that everything is handed to you, it only means you have to chance to succeed or fail, Freedom has nothing to do with the outcome except that you get to chose it. And that the whole idea of allowing people to come to America to only work for 6 years, then having to return to their country reeks of indentured servitude and turning people into mercenaries. These people should be given their due citizenship's because they have proven they want and can make America a better place.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe FREE!

free?http://www.ugeek.com/news/geeknews/jan2000/ge e2000320000988.htm

Freedom - it's the most expensive idea ever known I apologize for any ramblings I have made, unless they make sense, in that case. I told you so!

What would Einstein do?

Could you imagine if Einstein was sent home after his 6 year H1B was up? WWII would have been a bit trickier to end, eh?

Evil?

These workers got exactly what they bargained for. Having worked here, their skills will be in greater demand when they return home--leading to higher salaries.

Yes, there are crummy employers out there. Maybe we should reform the system to make it easier to sweitch employers mid-visa. But I find the suggerstion that the workers have been wronge to be, at the least, odd.

hawk, economist at large

Good point...

Another problem lies with the hiring abilities of managers & headhunters who work off of a list of keywords that they're looking for, when the real skill that IT shops need is the ability to learn and adapt to a changing environment.

When I was looking for a job in Indiana, with a few years of HP3000 Cobol & Powerhouse experience, I was very fortunate to find a manager who gave me a chance in an AS/400 shop - my background was with HMO's, but this was a distribution & retail company. This manager realized that I had a history of learning new packages and languages as required, so he knew that after a few shorts weeks I'd be a good fit for his department - and he was right. Too often, however, headhunters & managers base their searches on criteria such as x years of Java, or y years of C++ experience. In doing so, they are blinding themselves to a vast number of programmers out there who want to develop new skills, but aren't getting the opportunity to do so. The other skills they may bring to the job (experience with the development process, etc.) can more than make up for any learning curve they may have to go through on the technical side.

Xenophobic vs. non-xenophobic /.ers

I find it strange how the /. crowd revels in amusement from clever remarks about the Hitchhiker's guide and the babelfish. Very wise and understanding about the tapestry of human culture and thought - all that makes us what we are, and how we live together. But when it comes to the real world, and people traveling and working in different countries and speaking with a different accent, there is so much veiled hostility and underlying scorn towards "them".

I've always assumed this was two different subpopulations on /. Any time immigration is raised as an issue, you get a lot of mostly AC's posting inarticulate and ignorant cliche-ridden messages effectively expressing the sentiment "me good; dang furriners bad."

In real life and on /., this sentiment invariably comes from people who are lacking in various assets or abilities, whether it be communication, education, intelligence, socialization, or whatever. It seems fairly obvious why they would feel threatened by people smarter and more ambitious than they are, coming to the U.S. to compete for jobs and other resources.

But I've always retained the fond hope that the /.ers who read HHGTTG, Neal Stephenson, etc., aren't the same ones who have knee-jerk reactions to anyone a little different from themselves. I would think anyone with the capacity to appreciate that sort of literature would also have the capacity to discuss, in a reasonably rational way, the pros and cons of immigration and the issues which surround it.

Call me an idealist!

Straw man

The shortage is a straw man. The reality is that there exists a glut of "IT" workers in this country, H1B visas or not. The real problems that employers are having are 1) Lack of good workers, and 2) Unreasonable expectations forced upon them by stockholders. Most programmer-type workers are grossly incompetent and many would not even be employed if not for the current hype in this particular industry and the ease of acquiring ostensibly adequate credentials. A bachelor's degree in computer science is a surefire ticket to 60 grand or better in the valley. Employers can't be picky about how that degree was obtained or whether the candidate is actually qualified. The stockholders are either thinking IPO or desperately trying to prop up post-IPO share prices. That hurries the release schedules and forces employers to take anyone they can get; the current state of the economy - qualified employees are difficult to find in any industry - and the shyster nature of programmers in general make picky managers into ex-managers.

I would find it difficult to believe that these foreign workers are any better at their jobs than American workers. Many if not most are incompetent, and language and cultural problems may make it more difficult for them to work with the rest of the team.

Whether these problems exist or are relevant, however, is not for the government to decide. It's for the clients of the giant software houses to decide. They can send a strong message that the products are crap by not buying them. Then the management can decide for themselves whether or not hiring more workers - foreign or not - will increase profits, and act accordingly.

Me, I see a market for about 25% as many tech workers as we have today. Employers could reduce their personnel problems by 1) using less technology; most jobs are better performed without it anyway, and there is strong evidence that computers don't increase productivity for most jobs; 2) using better tools; it's no surprise that supporting microsoft and other inferior products consumes the bulk of any tech worker's time; 3) using more selective hiring processes; 10 good people are infinitely better than 100 lousy ones; 4) in the case of software houses, scrapping obsolete products, streamlining their offerings, and rewriting or discontinuing unmaintainable code bases.

More workers? I don't think they're needed. Smarter management, yes. Better workers, yes. Higher quality education, yes. But, as Fred Brooks would love to remind us, throwing more workers - many poorly educated and inexperienced - at a problem only makes it worse.

H1B was always a scam anyway

...let's face it, programming in the USA was rapidly approaching the status of "doctor" or "lawyer". In the late 80's, a hot programmer could freelance for a fortune.

This made life very tough on Sun, Oracle, Microsoft and IBM. The last thing they needed was having to pay $40-$100 an hour for programmers.

Thus, immense financial pressure begat H1B. I knew it was a lie from the start, intended to hobble the wealth and status of American Software Engineers, Developers and programmers.

I would have far preferred we let in a mix of people from a variety of backgrounds, on a permanent basis. Lawyers, Police, Doctors, Nurses, Politicians, Pilots, Teachers, whatever. But the various unions would have stopped it cold. Thus, the congress had to target geeky programmers -- highly paid, but no organizing skills.

Now we're stuck with the result. H1B Programmers and Technicians only; many of which will not be granted permanent residence and thus have to return home.

IMHO, this is one of the most egregious actions that the congress of the USA has ever taken, and that's saying a lot since they generally fuck everyone on the globe on a daily basis.

The downturn in the economy, the global corporatists (GE just opened a $100M engineering facility in Bangladore), stagnation of the platform have all contributed to this situation.

All I can say is, take a look at the local want ads. There are a fraction of the programming jobs that existed just a few years ago. My brother works for a massive aerospace company which has 100s of job openings on their website. The resumes pour in, but the jobs are never filled, and only rarely is anyone even interviewed.

Why? because the company uses vacant engineering slots to pressure the government in a lot of ways -- more time to complete projects, more pressure to expand H1B, etc.

Hate to say it, but for many H1B people, this was your vacation in America. Some global corporation got to pay you a fraction of what he would have paid me. Now, it's time for the next crop. Sooner or later, most programming will be done in China and India, and you will make more than the guy down the street.

Who really wins? The big shareholders in the Globals. That is, the top 1-5% of the US population. Many will do well in India/China, though. Personally, I think you got a pretty good deal.

Who can say Linus + family wouldn't have an enjoyable life back in Helsinki? I seriously doubt he'd have trouble finding a job!

Re:I think I can speak for everyone

Well.. it is healthier for a country to educate it's CITIZENS into the roles it needs rather than simply importing the help from another country.
In the long run, much better.

Re:What would Linus do?

Linus is on an H1B visa. I recall reading an article about his visa troubles about a year ago.

the problem is INS inefficiency and outdated rules

Long ago, the intent was that high tech workers with special skills would directly apply for green cards. Those would be processed quickly, and the qualified workers could start their jobs in the US after a fairly short time. But applying for a green card from outside the US was risky, because if it got denied, people would face all sorts of problems traveling to the US on business or for pleasure later. Furthermore, green card processing became slower and more cumbersome so that it became less feasible to apply for a greencard when starting a job.

Most employers and employees therefore had to start taking a different approach: they would apply for H1B visas first and then apply for a green card while the employee was working on the H1B. That approach worked fine for a while. However, over the last few years, INS processing has become so inefficient that it can take three or four years to process a green card. If the H1B visa expires before the green card application has been mostly processed, the employees face deportation. Because the INS processing times skyrocketed so suddenly, many employees were caught by surprise: they thought that two years would be ample time to get their green card application through and were planning for that, and then were left without enough time to complete their application. Because of the baroque nature of US immigration law, there are no exemptions. Once the H1B has run out, people have to leave the country. There is no other status to convert to.

US immigration law is also rife with other outdated rules and bizarre notions. For example, it talks a lot about "intent": you can't travel on a visitor's visa if you have some "intent" to immigrate. Family reunification (even of more distant relatives) is preferred over any kind of skilled immigration. And dual citizenship is recognized by the US only if a US citizen acquires another citizenship, but the US still expects immigrants to renounce any former citizenship (although in practice, that isn't enforced much anymore). The immigration procedures themselves are a bizarre mix of rules and questions pertaining to 19th century immigration by boat, puritan notions of "good moral character", McCarthy-era concerns about communism, and modern day concerns about terrorism.

Perhaps the most important problem is that even if the delays are the INS's fault (as they usually are), the applicants are not protected from deportation. If the INS sits on someone's application for two years and their current visa expires, that person is subject to deportation.

Altogether, I don't consider the US very welcoming to skilled immigrants anymore. In addition to visa issues and processing delays, there are numerous other problems immigrants face in the US. For example, immigrants must pay full taxes but cannot take advantage of the social safety net (such as it is) and entitlements they have paid for. Legal protections for immigrants are also limited in some important ways. And even after becoming citizens, naturalized citizens are always potentially subject to denaturalization, in which the INS can challenge and reverse the naturalization process until the day an immigrant dies. The statute of limitations for denaturalization was abolished about 10 years ago, another instance of what looks like a fairly hostile attitude towards immigrants.

In a social and business sense, Americans are very welcoming to immigrants and foreigners, and that makes this country a special place to live and work. And the US will probably always remain attractive to immigrants from economically disadvantaged countries. But the US government and the US Congress have become so hostile to immigrants and foreigners that I think anybody coming from another first world country should very carefully weigh the tradeoffs involved. If the US wants to continue to be attractive skilled workers from Europe, Japan, and Australia, US immigration law will need a major overhaul.

Re:Temporary

"More like they are prized so highly because the paperwork makes it so hard for them to change jobs - you don't have to give them as many raises and other incentives to stay with the company. "

The way the job market is (I was on an H1 in Denver), I doubled my salary in 1.5 years. Everytime a review came along, I threatened to quit and forced concessions out of my employer. And please don't tell me that this was only possible because H1's get paid less either (many people assert this incorrectly.) The first step in preparing an H1 is a submission to the state Labor Dept. to ensure that the non-immigrant will be paid the prevailing wage for the area. I had the same starting salary as all the American graduates that I worked with.

"And for some reason there's always more communications difficulties with them as well. Not all, but some. It doesn't matter how well you know the technical stuff, if you can't understand what you're being asked to do (because of language) you can't get the job done. "

Most of the non-immigrants that I worked with more than made up for comms difficulties with willingness to please and try to work. I know how frustrating language can be: being English I thought I would be fine... it took a month or two until my American co-workers were finally able to translate what I was saying for our boss (an American formally from Romanian)!

H1B Visas and why they don't work...

The currenty implimentation of the H1B visa is kinda like the Death Penalty: nice idea, the way it's done sucks.

So what's wrong with the current H1B? Three things:

1. 6-year term
2. Non-renewable (after 6 years, you gotta go home)
3. Non-convertible (ie, you can't become a citizen - becoming a permanent resident is extremely hard from an H1B)

If the intention was for short-term help for an industry, six years is way to long. Fundamentally, on this one, the AFL/CIO is correct: companies use H1Bs to import cheap labor rather than retrain US citizens (the IT shortage is so bad that they retrain US citizen anyway, but look at other industries (like Civ Eng) that don't do this). "Temporary" is a joke. If people were serious about this, the term would be 3 years, max.

Remaining in the US after the 6 years is up is nigh-on-impossible, no matter how important you are to a company's wellbeing. When it's up, out you go. Getting a subsequent H1B to come back again is alot harder than getting the first H1B. This is stupid.

If you are here on an H1B, there are only 2 circumstances that I know of that allow you to remain here (ie, convert your H1B visa to some other sort of visa): (1) you marry a US citizen, in which case you get to apply for permanent residency (Green Card), or (2) apply for asylum/refugee status (which is horribly torturous). Companies can sponsor you for a Green Card if they want, but the rules require you to return to your home country while they consider your application. Which can take 6 months or a year (or alot longer). And there is no way you can stay on your own without a sponsor.

Fundamentally, H1Bs should be for 2-3 year, "work-and-leave" use, kinda like a contractor. We should create another type of visa which allows us to have people in for a period of time (several years) and then convert it easily to a permanent resident status. That way, we keep the smart ones here.

This is the worst part of the current H1B - we bring in lots of talented people, train them up in our stuff so we can make use of them, then send them back to their home country, full of knowledge on how we do business. Dumb! The U.S.'s major competative advantage is it's brainpower - if we don't try to keep our brainpower, then where does that leave us? For years, the U.S.'s immigration policy has been such that we skim the cream of intellectuals from other countries (e.g. get them to imigrate to the US) so we keep our brainpower as the top. The H1B actively defeats this idea. Stupid.

-Erik

Techie Shortage?

I keep hearing about this shortage of IT workers. What is really happening is that corporations are watching a health US IT labor market eat up a fraction of thier profits and are lobbying heavily to allow more forign workers into the country to try to bring the salaries down.

I think that the competitive salaries and frequent job hopping are not only good for most IT workers, but good for IT in general. Knowlwdge is sperad more quickly, more people have access to the knowledge and it is difficult for one company to hold on to a competitive edge for long. They must contiune to innovate (except maybe M$)creating new competitive advantages. The market grows, consumers get better products faster and smart motivated workers are rewarded with a better more flexible and lucritive work place.

This is not to say that we should shut the door and not allow any forign IT workers in. We should just be sure that the Government and Corporate America are not fixing the numbers to hurt IT workers.

Re:You mean *your* communication skills.

> Otherwise, how's your Hindi, Chinese or Korean doing?

They're doing great, thanks!. I have a new pair of Nikes, a new hat, and a new CD player. Made right in my basement.

Ian Stuart Donaldson

I wish this had come up before I came here!!!

Its shocking and very dissappointing to read all the posting here. Even more dissappointing is the fact that these are views of slashdotters. Honestly expected them to be more "open" etc.

As someone who recently started work in the US, I wish I had known earlier that deep down even the bright Americans are of such opinions. I came to the US not because I earn a higher salary here... To all the "frogs in the well" here who think that Indians come here to avoid starving... incidentally my purchasing power in India was much higher than out here and before you conclude ... my salary here makes a lot of my american coleagues here envious.
I came here to work with the best people in the industry.
A lot of you will yell at me saying "Go back if you don't like this ... blah blah" ... in probably better or worse words.
All I have to offer such people is "thank you" for letting me know the true feelings of americans towards people like me - they are too ashamed to say such things on my face :-).
I wish more Indians just leave this country to run itself... Good luck.

Re:Contracts

The problem is not that H1-Bs are temporary and pe