IU's Choice of Search Engine ChaCha "Explained"

theodp sends a follow-up to the discussion here a couple of months back about Indiana University librarians and students being forced to use the 'human-powered' ChaCha search engine because IU's President and one of its Trustees were business buddies of ChaCha CEO (and IU alum) Scott Jones. Don't be ridiculous, insisted indignant IU officials. It was ChaCha's ability to fill in gaps in a speech he was writing in 2007 that convinced IU's CIO that the University had to do a deal with ChaCha. What a coincidence, notes Valleywag. The need to fill in gaps in a speech he was writing back in 2005 is what convinced ChaCha CEO Jones that he had to create ChaCha in the first place. Way to anticipate what your customers need before they do.

"Way to anticipate what your customers need"

[hxnwix]

Way to add distracting snark. Face it, you're not John Stewart.

Snark?

[Colin Smith]

That was "sarcasm". Look it up.

You might also want to look up the real meaning of "snark" while you're at it.
 

Re:

[Goaway]

I did look it up. 'Speech or writing loosely characterized as "snidely derisive."' That's what it was.

And while a sufficiently permissive definition of "sarcasm" might include that statement, it really was nothing remotely like good sarcasm.

Re:"Way to anticipate what your customers need"

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Way to add distracting snark. Face it, you're not John Stewart."

Well, to be fair, Jon Stewart's not even John Stewart!

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

Joke's on you -- you probably only caught that mistake because of the amazing power of ChaCha.

Re:

[WilliamSChips]

I was wondering why OP was talking about the Green Lantern.

what's the suprise?

[tfiedler]

Why is this kind of behavior a suprise to anyone? It happens in every business, big or small, for profit and non-profit, and today, colleges are nothing more than big businesses driven by athletics. Its typical hypocricy, all the while the executives spout off about ethics they openly ignore them. The moral of this is to never believe a thing that rolls downhill, whether from executives, politicians, rock stars or otherwise; and instead to remember that the basic truth is that the importance of adherence to

Re:what's the suprise?

[DaleGlass]

I don't get this kind of post. It seems to be saying "big deal, everybody does that, why did this even get posted?"

While I'm not surprised at all this sort of thing happens this IMO doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported on. Maybe then it'll happen a bit less often.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I don't think it is just about businesses and organizations. Possibly everyone does it. It's all part of social networking, we all get and grant favors to people we know that we wouldn't grant to people we don't know, even if it's for favors that shouldn't be granted.

Driven by athletics?

[nurb432]

I agree they are no different then any other buisness, but athletics? I dont see that being the case.

Sure its a factor from a marketing perspective, but i dont see it being the big money maker for them. Its number of students that makes the $. Many schools where their athletic programs are nil still rake in the students/profits.

Re:

[Trailer Trash]

There's no surprise involved. Cockroaches don't like light, and the internet is a great way to shine it on them.

Re:

[Schemat1c]

There's no surprise involved. Cockroaches don't like light, and the internet is a great way to shine it on them.

Although in this case the light is a spotlight of free publicity. I've never even heard of Cha Cha and I went and checked them out just for grins because of this article.

Also to comment on this 'new' type of search engine: A people driven search engine already exists, StumbleOn [stumbleupon.com]. I use it all the time to get more intelligent searches.

speaking of free publicity ...

[gr8scot]

The synopsis looked a little bit too ridiculous to believe, so I Googled "indiana university search engine". It looks possible that "the ChaCha infrastructure" is not entirely without merit. Other things being equal (that is, assuming that their IT department doesn't totally suck eggs), their press release gives the impression that information that has not yet been uploaded will become more quickly digitized, the next time each resource is requested. Of course, that's the description from the parties who

What the ... ?

[khasim]

He was impressed when IU's Ask a Librarian service found the quote, from former Harvard President James Bryant Conant, within hours. But a ChaCha guide got it in two minutes.

"Hours".

So he wasted at least TWO HOURS of someone's time looking up a quote? For a SPEECH? And then he asked a DIFFERENT person to look it up, also?

Re:What the ... ?

[Overzeetop]

Welcome to the world of the modern CEO (which the president of a university effectively is). Other's time is worth nothing compared to your time - both figuratively and nearly literally for some CEOs. Sadly, it probably wasn't even a good speech - they rarely are.

That's the point. The waste.

[khasim]

This guy is so bad that he wastes HOURS of other people's time on researching his speech.

So that would immediately call into question any of his decisions. He is not capable of determining whether ChaCha is better than Google (or better than just looking it up in the library yourself).

Obligatory car analogy -
If you never drive a car, are you capable of saying Car A is better than Car B based solely upon how fast someone else can pick up your laundry in it?

Re:

[ScrewMaster]

So what? How many CEOs figure they could just as easily step right in and teach the engineers how to get things done, and probably do it better, if they could just take the time from their ever so much more important duties? This even though they have no idea how a light bulb works?

There are thousands of CEOs who do don't do anything, or at least, don't do anything beneficial for the organizations they nominally lead. That's obvious enough to anyone, given the present state of corporate America. In fact,

Re:

[gr8scot]

You forgot nepotism.

Re:

[mikael]

This guy is so bad that he wastes HOURS of other people's time on researching his speech.

That depends how much he is paying them - if someone were to pay me $100/hour to look up cheesy phrases for their speech, I'd be quite happy to do it. If they're paying less than $4/hour, on the other hand, I'd prefer to be looking up the cheesy menu for Extra Large McBurgers.

Re:

[Eivind]

Flipping burgers pays that bad in USA ? I was thinking you guys have minimum-wage laws at around $10 ? Granted, even that is hardly enough for a reasonable standard of living, even with a fulltime job, but oh well.

Flipping burgers in Stavanger pays ~$15-20/hour.

Re:

[zeropointburn]

U.S. minimum wage is $5.85, unless you're wait-staff. This is due to a July '07 increase; for the past several years it was $5.15.

Besides, if the CEO is paying someone $100/hr to research speeches, he's not paying her to research speeches... unless you consider 'research' to be equal to 'fellatio'.

Seriously, is there anyone in the states that can actually handle a little power without completely losing it? Granted, bad news is the best news, but you never hear about the guy that runs his company/organizatio

Re:

[Eivind]

That low ? $5.85/hour means that if you work 8hr/day, 22 days a month that's aproximately how many workdays there are a month, on average, your gross earnings will be $1000 dollars. That's -gross- mind you, I don't know what the net will be, but it'll be less.

Can you actually live for that in the USA today ? Is it enough to cover even the basics reasonably ? What's the sense of a minimum wage that doesn't even permit a person to become independent ?

Re:

[mikael]

This discussion comes up every now again on Slashdot, especially when comparing the cost of living between the West Coast (Seattle, Los Angeles), the East Coast (New York, Boston, Washington D.C), the South/Central (Dallas, Austin) and everywhere else.

Minimum wage is about $12,000 year.

About a third goes on taxes. Another third will probably go on rent (sharing a two bedroom flat would be around $325/month)
That leaves you with around $4000

A car would cost the second hand car price + licensing/smog tests +

Re:

[zeropointburn]

$5.85/hr for 40hrs/wk (which a lot of people are lucky to get; most places cut you off at 36) is $234/wk, $936/mo, $12,168/yr. Taxes are about 15% at that wage, so you're looking at $10k per year. Nobody really lives on that; it's minimal survival, especially for a 'first-world' country. Housing and food costs vary wildly, but you can expect to pay about 80% of your after-tax income on basic needs (shelter, food, cheap clothes, electricity). Note that this doesn't include medical insurance, car insurance, g

Re:

[Eivind]

Thank you. +1 Informative.

It's interesting to compare. One thing that strikes me is, in general people say USA have low taxation, whereas for example Norway has high taxes.

But that completely fails to be the case for the lower classes, infact the oposite is true. With a gross-income of $12K in Norway, you would literally pay zero taxes. Not only that: Those zero taxes include full medical-insurance, so the real difference is larger than 15% (how much would medical insurance cost for a person earning $1000/m

Re:

[OakDragon]

Flipping burgers in Stavanger pays ~$15-20/hour.

There are probably locales in the U.S. that pay about that, other factors taken into consideration. I'm sure there are some places that pay minimum wage, but they probably can't attract workers. The last time I was in a "minimum wage"-type industry (pizza parlor in the 90s), our starting pay was always 1 or 2 dollars per hour above the minimum wage. Even then, we couldn't keep people at that wage - it was just too easy for them to find another job for a lit

Re:

[flyingfsck]

I guess the guy in ChaCha used Google and the others were too dumb to do that.

Re:

[nacturation]

He was impressed when IU's Ask a Librarian service found the quote, from former Harvard President James Bryant Conant, within hours.

So he wasted at least TWO HOURS of someone's time looking up a quote?

I'm replying to your post two hours after you made it. Even though I'm responding "within hours", do you think I spent two hours writing this?
 

What!?

[KEnderK]

I thought ChaCha's only reason to exist was so you could abuse the people who help you search!

twilight zone

[Digitus1337]

I ran a search for "serving ferrets", when asked if I needed feeding them, I responded with "not so much" and had my session ended by the ChaCha Guide almost instantly.

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

I remember listening to a friend's comedy CD, I think it was Howard Stern, and the guy on it was making a prank call to a car-cleaning place, and he was asking questions like:

"Okay, now, do you guys clean the whole car? Like in the trunk and everything?"

"And can you get out really bad stains, like blood? Cause the trunk is an absolute mess in there."

"And now, you guys don't ask a bunch of invasive questions, right?"

And the woman seemed to be going along fine with it :-)

Re:

[bigbigbison]

Sounds like Tom Mabe http://www.tommabe.com/ [tommabe.com]
He has a couple cds of pranking telemarketers. I know he has one call about a rug cleaning company and him asking about getting blood out of the carpet.

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

Yeah, I think that's it. I do remember initially thinking it was Howard Stern. Also, it was so funny I was laughing uncontrollably for a few minutes.

Thanks for the name and link :-)

Conflict of Interest

[Pantero Blanco]

I cannot see any way that someone could make a defensible argument for a University forcing its students to use a particular search engine. It's just braindead. When the person making the decision is a director of (or anyone with a significant stake in) the company benefitting, it goes beyond being stupid and irresponsible and becomes corrupt.

How does IU pull this off, anyway? Do they actually block Google, Yahoo, etc?

Re:

[larry bagina]

Just a guess: If you currently do a search at the University of Indiana [indiana.edu], the results [iu.edu] are Powered by Google Search Appliance. Sounds like they'll switch to ChaCha for intranet searching.

Re:

[Loadmaster]

No, when you search there are a few different engines listed with radio buttons to choose. ChaCha is selected by default. Google is right next to it.

Re:Conflict of Interest

[coolate]

I work At IU, it is actually just replacing the search engine on the site www.iu.edu, it was/is google. No one is being forced at all to use it, in fact most users have google for their homepage. Now they can use a special version of cha cha on the IU homepage that is supported by the Library staff and lab consultants. It will also give special access to the library's periodicals and other online documents if a student is logged in. To be honest I think they will still be using google hardware for some searches.

Re:

[xigxag]

Mod parent up. This is just IU using Chacha to power its own internal search portal [slashdot.org], and forcing its employees to be unpaid volunteers for Chacha. Nobody's stopping students from using GOOG or anything else for their general web searches. RTFPR [iu.edu] for more info.

I still think it's boneheaded and a conflict of interest, but let's not exaggerate it into something it's not. Oh wait, this is Slashdot, never mind.

Re:

[cHiphead]

You say its boneheaded and a conflict of interest but dont want people to exaggerate it into something its not, you yourself are underexaggerating the case. IU gets public money and as a result of the deal with ChaCha, is essentially funding ChaCha like its a university program. Its a definite conflict of interest and the IU administrator involved should be fired and probably needs to be taken to court over this. I know thats how search engines typically start out, but it doesn't make it right or accepta

Re:

[xigxag]

Huh? Which part of my post are you supposed to be disagreeing with? I'm saying it's misleading and exaggerated to claim, as the writeup does, that IU students are being forced to use Chacha. As you correctly point out, there's plenty else wrong with what IU is doing without making stuff up.

Re:

[wicka]

They aren't forcing anyone to use anything. IU's system currently uses Google as its main search engine; on IU OneStart there options for both ChaCha and Google. Before, Google was the default. Now, ChaCha is the default. You can click a box and change it if you want. The point is that IU thinks ChaCha will search better, and I don't know about that, but it can't search any worse than Google was. I don't know if it was the type of information on IU pages or what, but Google never found anything I wanted. Mo

Re:

[gr8scot]

When large organizations implement a search engine, it's not the same as the search window in your browser. This type of project isn't about what runs on client computers for general www searches, it's about searches within Indiana University, and not just material that's already had links written to www.iu.edu. This will increase what's available to Google searches of IU, at least for IU students. The article is a joke.

forced?

[Anonymous Coward]

How were they forced? There are so many search engines out there, it's hard to imagine blocking *all* of them and *all* the proxies you could use to get to them.

TFA doesn't explain. Something doesn't add up.

Re:

[KEnderK]

It's still there buddy.

All the silly names made me laugh

[tjstork]

I just looked at the article, and I honestly couldn't get past the Cha Cha part. I mean, who seriously make anything called "Cha Cha" that isn't some sort of dog food or diapers for crippled canines. They should fire that guy just for doing that, even if he didn't own a piece of it.

Re:

[Scutter]

Yeah, why name it something moronic like "Cha Cha" when you could name it something sophisticated and professional like "Yahoo!" or "Google".

Re:

[Jarjarthejedi]

Don't forget Dogpile and AskJeeves (isn't that vaguely languagecist (yeah, just made that word up, live with it)?).

Internet search engines have weird names...

Re:All the silly names made me laugh

[3vi1]

I don't see what's so silly about it. My friend Joanie loves Cha Cha.

Thank god for Google - I had no idea how to spell Joanie.

-J

Re:

[UltimateRobotLover]

Hey, at least they didn't call it Hoo Hoo Dilly!

Re:

[Traxton1]

Well, according to their website, Cha is Chinese for "search." So unlike, say, Google or Yahoo!, the word has relevance to searching.

I think the best part is that ChaCha uses Google ads on its results page.

Ah-ha!

[mooreti1]

I was wondering where Jeeve's went after leaving Ask. Apparently he changed his freakin' name to ChaCha.

clock is running -- Can SlashCha beat ChaCha?

[notshannon]

on a ChaCha query ... 5 minutes so far ...

qalqashandi sub al-a'sha manuscript location

Re:

[notshannon]

15 minutes -- "Chat session ended" -- zero search results
on qalqashandi sub al-a'sha manuscript location

Cairo, Egypt would be a good start.
(If you know what library, please reply; thanks!)

Re:

[Lesrahpem]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you spelled it wrong. I'm pretty sure that it's spelled Subh Al-a'sha and is written by Qalqashanda. When looking for something like that spelling matters.

Re:

[pyrrhonist]

Cairo, Egypt would be a good start.
(If you know what library, please reply; thanks!)

It's at the Dar al-Kutub al-Misriyyah [unesco.org], which looks like this [mit.edu].

/. FTW!

It's a blatant conflict of interest

[postbigbang]

McRobbie should have been eliminated from his assension to IU president, which happens on Oct 18, for tepid ethics.

Whatever the quality of ChaCha, it's not right for him to be on their board, then use IU student resources as well as IU assets to forward this. Jones, inventor of voice mail, needs no free ride from anyone.

Indiana politics smells as bad as politics anywhere, but this is far too close of a relationship, and McRobbie sees nothing wrong with his forceful advocacy of ChaCha. Sure, you can use google or anything you want. But using university resources towards personal profit in this way is onerous and not transparent.

Re:

[googlehistorian]

Tepid ethics are the domain of those who ignore the facts. 1) McRobbie was NEVER compensated with cash or equity from ChaCha. EVER. 2) McRobbie was NEVER on ChaCha's board when he was simultaneously IU's President. 3) Even if McRobbie had been on ChaCha's board, how is it any different than Stanford's President, John Hennessy, sitting on Google's board (and other boards) and profiting wildly? http://www.signallake.com/innovation/Hennessy022407.pdf [signallake.com] For those who are hot and bothered about McRobbie/IU

Re:

[postbigbang]

You're entitled to your opinions. Not your facts.

1) McRobbie was indeed compensated; you think he did ChaCha for free?
2) Of course not; he's not President until Oct 18th. Nah, just another university official (as interim) doing the wrong thing
3) Two wrongs don't make a right. Look at how much Stanford has sucked down both private and federal funds. The articles over the years stagger the mind, of just how much Stanford can be as a black hole for cash-- in the name of 'development'.
4) That's what I said and

Re:

[googlehistorian]

I would be ever so happy to place a (LARGE) monetary wager with you about "opinion" #1. (We could resolve the dispute via factual documents made available by ChaCha and, btw, it is in the absence of any substantive proof from you whatsoever that he was compensated in any way. Further, both ChaCha and IU have factually stated that he was definitively not compensated) And re #2, you really must be a dimwit if you don't know the difference between "taking office" (with full authority) and having an "inaugur

Re:

[postbigbang]

Good.

Now, let's get an audit for full exposure and transparency. Then let's recind this relationship so as to for once and all remove all possible taints, and use an arms-length method to employ this dictum on IU's campuses.

1) I don't believe IU, and this quid pro quo relationship has to end if it's to be transparent. Let Scot Jones get his own money and good will to make the endeavor work. Using IU resources to benefit Scot Jones is much like building a stadium for Jim Irsay with tax dollars. Oh, wait....

2

Re:

[googlehistorian]

Very unfortunate that your vocabulary doesn't translate into useful intelligence. But excellent that you memorized your dictionary. Two gold stars for you! It probably allows you to dispatch more than one condescending comment every single day. How else could you look in the mirror without feeling just a little better than the other guy? How nice that you can spew your negativity in so many different flavors!

Too bad that society doesn't reward your particular skills better. If they did, you likely woul

Here then....

[postbigbang]

Since you don't like my vocabulary and apparently are missing my message, let me take something from Scott Jones' own web site. I'll annotate. Viz:

>> An Indianapolis technology business and Indiana University have announced a partnership.

Ok, there's a partnership. See the next sentence.

>> The partnership will use IU's library and information technology staff in a Carmel-based Internet search engine that uses experts as "guides" through techniques including instant messaging.

Uh, let's see. IU's l

Re:

[googlehistorian]

Now, we're talking. Thank you for the increased clarity.

Okay, what if it were true that McRobbie really didn't accept any compensation whatsoever from ChaCha? Would that change the color of the situation? And I really do mean NO COMPENSATION. If it were absolutely TRUE, would it factor into your thinking? BTW, public representations from both IU and ChaCha are that there has been no compensation to McRobbie ever.

And IF this really were a research-oriented "strategic alliance" in the truest sense, where

Re:

[postbigbang]

At best, it's a wicked procedural and PR gaffe. At worst, it's much worse than that.

Vetting the situation requires, unfortunately for Jones and McRobbie, startling clarity and an ugly audit. Provided brilliant-- no, crystaline-- results, subsequent dicta needs to be fully transparent. The merest hint of personal gain on McRobbie's part at either taxpayer or student cost taints this and/or subsequent research endeavors. McRobbie makes a great if controversial salary in a time of fiscal difficulties in Indian

1. Exploit your workforce 2. Screw your users

[bluenovadesign]

What else would you expect from a company which pays a pittance to its employees (only they aren't of course, otherwise it would no doubt break a few labout laws). From a quick look round the net being a guide for Cha Cha appears to be a job which requires skill, pays you only when questions are asked (so you can be sitting about idle and unpaid), and even then only pays at a rate below just about any western minimum wage. If these guides were sitting at home waiting for deliveries of buttons to sew for a

Re:

[Fortimir]

Look at being a guide as something you do for a couple hours at night before you go to bed instead of a job. You can make a few hundred dollars a month just being on the computer doing what you normally would otherwise.

I would say BIAS alert, since my mother was a lawyer responsible for the startup of ChaCha and she actually showed it to me when it was in venture capital mode and you needed a password to access it... but I guess my statement really has nothing to do with any of that.

In MySpace...

[Trogre]

... no one can hear you ChaChaCha.