Internet Not the Social Hinder it Was 173
imjustatomato writes "A 1998 study showed that the Internet causes declines in social relationships and isolation, similarly to how television causes social disengagement and bad moods. This is the 'Internet Paradox' because while the internet is heavily used for communication, it makes people lonelier. However, a more recent study shows that now the internet has a positive effect on social and psychological well-being. This is even more so for those who have more social support and are extroverted in nature. Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area."
Staring (Score:2, Insightful)
> in living in the local area."
Anything which involves sitting indoors and staring at a box is likely to decrease your knowledge of your immediate environment, isn't it?
Re:Staring (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Staring (Score:5, Funny)
Facebook [facebook.com]
MySpace [myspace.com]
OKCupid (free dating site) [okcupid.com]
Hell think of all the underaged girls & boys you can meet and stalk! Hell it might even get you famous on TV!! Yea, Dateline!! (okay the last part was a joke)
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I agree, stalking is no fun if you get caught. Boo, Dateline! Yea, stalking!!
Re:Staring (Score:5, Interesting)
Those people are too busy superficially socializing and killing brain cells to drown out the idea that there's something more to life than what other people's preconceived notions are.
Then again, staring at this box has taught me one extremely valuable lesson - people will say anything, even if it is meaningless, in order to get a first post (and the inevitable mod points following it).
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Those people may not know the latest definition of a planet, or the current state of affairs in the middle east, but they are meeting with, and interacting with, other people in a very real way. It seems to me that it's you who needs to get a life, and find out that there's a vast amount more to it than the definition of a p
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No,they're not, but thinking that you are somehow superior because you spend your time on the internet rather than going to bars, or restaurants and superficially socializing and killing brain cells is mutally exclusive with social skills. I'm a bit internet user, after all I'm here. But in six hours time I'm going out to meet my friends down the pub, we'll have a few pints and a laugh and not give a damn about the status of Pluto, or the mi
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Yeah, he said immediate environment, genius. Though if you lived in Israel/Lebanon you probably wouldn't have to go outside to know what's going on.
Re:Staring (Score:5, Funny)
Heh. You needed the Internet for that? (Score:5, Insightful)
Heh. You needed the Internet to learn that? No offense, but I'd have thought that anyone who's ever went to (high) school, had any work that doesn't only involve telecommuting, or, really, went out of the house at all, had witnessed the RL-equivalent of karma-whoring. People want to be perceived as part of the group, well liked, cool, fashionable, etc, and will go to insane (and often bloody stupid) extremes to achieve that.
It even has an impact on polls and statistics, as you have to skew your poll to account for the facts that:
- if it seems that the interviewer wants a particular answer, they'll give that answer, just to be liked. So if you actually want a fair result, you have to go to great lengths to make sure that the question sounds as neutral as it the English language allows. (Or, conversely, if you want to skew the statistics to your ends, you just need to give people a strong indication that only a monster would pick the other choices.)
- all else being equal, people tend to answer "yes" more than they answer "no". (Presumably because being too negative is perceived as something bad or non-social.) So you have to actually have randomized tests, where the same question is asked in one way on some forms (e.g., "are you for continuing the war in Iraq?") and as the opposite on others (e.g., "are you for stopping the war in Iraq?")
- as anthropologists showed, even when you accounted for the above two, if you ask people anything about themselves, the result will be basically a lie. Well, not as in a deliberate, conscious-level lie, but more like distorted through the need to perceive themselves as doing the right and, most importantly, the socially-acceptable thing. _Very_ few will give you an answer that, according to the current social standards, would ammount to a "yes, I'm an asshole" confession, even if the poll is completely anonymous and confidential.
Or you can see that at smaller levels, and sometimes even at petty levels, from high school to your everyday work. People ostracize person X, just because they want to fit in a group where the popular ones are against person X. People pretend to be stupid in school, just because in nowadays' broken culture it's _cool_ to be stupid and ignorant, and is waay uncool to show any academic effort or ability. (And god forbid showing _interest_.) Etc.
The most perverse form of that is "groupthink". Take a dozen people which, each of them separately, are against doing X. Put them in a group where they each think that the rest of the group is _for_ X. Watch them all vote/chest-thump/shout-slogans/whatever for X, just to please the rest of the group, and take a decision as a group that neither of them actually really wanted. It's more common than you'd think, and affects a wide range of groups, from small cliques at work to government commissions to whole countries.
Etc, etc, etc.
So let's just say that Slashdot's karma-whoring is actually just representative of society as a whole. In fact, compared to some RL counterparts, let me assure you that the worst
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Says you! I always pretended to be stupid in school to throw off suspicion and catch people off guard. Not to mention people dont ask you as many annoying questions if they think you are dumb. Infact I do this in real life as well. The coolness is just an aftereffect.
I'm basically exactly like keyser soze.
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Life is all about mod points and meta moding. Physical life is more about moding with social points though.
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I think you're wrong. You're wrong in thinking that these (that is, the state of
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Did he specifically say he was unhappy, though?
Lack of physical interpersonal interaction doesn't necessarily lead to unhappiness, does it?
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And now the extraverts are getting on board...
...And new aspects of the internet have been evolving to engage these extraverts.
Which also benefits us intraverts. I'm now aware of many more local activities than I used to be. For instance, I participated in a group bicycle ride last weekend (of about 1,000 people) that I would never have been aware of if I hadn't been lurking on a bike-oriented local news list. Had a fun time. Actually talked with half a dozen strangers at the watering stations.
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I
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Well son. . . . (Score:4, Funny)
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interest in leaving (Score:5, Interesting)
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If you're anywhere near college-age, Boston is greener than just about anywhere else.
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So that was you that clogged the tubes with your "love".
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You weren't corrupted by the net; you were tempted by the age old passion of physical time with the oppsite sex!
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2002 (Score:5, Insightful)
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Diversity (Score:4, Insightful)
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(j/k - I'm from the UK)
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Although, let's be honest - I don't understand why people have to dig on towns. I live in Columbus, Ohio. Yes, it's not party central, but I'm not a "party" kind of guy. I enjoy the city for what it is and make a decent living - along with a decent average cost of living.
Just because something sucks for you, doesn't mean everyone in the town is miserable...
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Well of course... (Score:2, Funny)
Quick hypothesis (Score:5, Insightful)
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Or it could possibly be that both the previous negative and current positive effects are small, and have been overly-hyped by the press. Looking at the article, I notice something to the effect of "barely statistically significant".
Remember, a 2 sigma effect is suprious about 3% of the time, and so if a hundred studies are done by psychologists on the effect of the internets, 3 are cert
Define social and psychological well-being (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Define social and psychological well-being (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Define social and psychological well-being (Score:5, Funny)
You pop into a chat room and announce, "I'm a cute, lonely 13 year old girl." The friends practically make themselves.
That's another thing I've wondered about (Score:4, Interesting)
Somehow it doesn't even add up. The most popular people I've met on MUDs and MMOs for example, were playing male characters, and were the people with a memorable personality one way or another. They might have been the guy who played for ever and knows every single secret lever, or the guy who was the most involved in the community, or the most helpful newbie-helper, or the most (nauseatingly) consistent full-time role-player, or in one case simply the biggest asshole on the MUD. (But always very careful to not break any rules, so the admins never could quite justify outright banning him, even if they were _very_ irritated by him too.) You'd be surprised at the number of fans one can have by simply being the biggest asshole and full-time ganker on the server.
But the opposite works just as well, and in fact much better when you're low level and in no position to be an asshole. You'd be surprised how many people will remember you just because you were nice, helpful, and able to function in a group. Heck, even just being the polite newbie who knows how to ask politely and doesn't try to sound like an "I have 7 level 60 characters, you noob, I just forgot where Stormwind is" clown, you'd be surprised how it does get enough people trying to help. Some of us actually _like_ babysitting a polite newbie. Remember to say "thanks" at the end, and you may well be on the way to making a friend.
If anyone finds it necessary to play the "I'm a cute, lonely 13 year old girl" card to get any "friends" or any online help, then I'd advise them to take a good look critical look at their own personality and approach to human relationships, because that's where the real problem lies.
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more often than not they are more sincerely curious about how one goes about making friends on the Internet
Duh. You do it just like in real life:
With your credit card.
Right?
5 years out of date! tell us other old things! (Score:5, Funny)
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Is this an article? (Score:2)
Slow news day?
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Sorry, slow news calls for bad jokes.
Is that a bad thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Which of course is not really a negative at all. "The internets" doesn't cause disaffection, it just shows you all the alternatives out there for all those already not happy where they live. No one community is a great place to live in for everybody after all. If it helps you find a place you'll like better it's just good for everyone.
Also, the ability to have contact with diverse groups no matter where you're physically residing probably helps smooth the rough edges out of living anywhere. If you can cultivate your interests over the net, staying in your community may not chafe as much as it would have done in an earlier era.
Re:Is that a bad thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
The moment you get newspapers, radio or television, you start becoming *aware* that there's a larger world out there. But it's still one-way, you don't interact with this world, you only receive information from it.
With cheap travel, internet and telephone you are directly in contact with a lot that isn't in your immediate surrounding.
I know people in atleast 2 dozen countries. I've got *friends* living on other continents. People I talk to every week (sometimes every day), people I care about. Offcourse this means that I spend *less* time with the "local environment". When the starting-point was 100% local, how could this go any other direction than downwards ?
You don't need to make it global either. It's the same on a much smaller scale.
When my great-grandmother was small, (aprox 100 years ago) it was completely unpractical to have friends even 10 miles away. Sure you'd *know* some people living that far away, but communicating with them in any way meant either spending 2 hours for transport, or if you didn't need face-to-face, write a letter and wait several days for an answer.
The world is shrinking.
I'm closer to my friends in oh say Texas (Hallo Nadine!) (I live in Norway) in every way that matters than my grandmother was to her boyfriend (later husband) that lived about 50 miles away.
In every way that matters *Texas* is closer to western Norway today than two different villages 50 miles from oneanother where 100 years ago.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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I would even dare to say it includes more than "everyone". For many people with disabilities it opened a complete new world. I know several people with severe anxieties who now have a social live because of internet fora, msn, social networks like Hyves, etc. In "normal", everyday live, you don't see these people (outdoors, at work, etc), and therefor many people don't know that they exist.
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Your point about the subjects of the 1998 study being a relatively small group of enthusiasts and the 2002 study including almost "everyone" is exactly right. Plus the fact that there were so many more places "to go" in 2002.
It's kind of like comparing people's driving habits in 1915 and 1950. In 1915, only a small percentage of people had cars or drove, and most roads were local. But by 1950 most families had a car and at least one person in the family could drive, and roads were connecting neighboring t
Why does the grass look greener? (Score:5, Insightful)
But also, we read about the cool things other places are doing on places like slashdot. Of course, we're not interested in all the BAD news about those places. Because the crime news about other places more or less matches that of our own. Maybe that's why the grass looks greener. Because we see all the positive and negative of our own environment, but only the "cool" stuff going on in other places. So naturally we want to go there.
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on the other hand, the world is just full of interesting things places and people. it puts your own little world in perspective. I don't get the grass-is-greener thing at all; don't be satisfied with what you have and where you are just because that's what you have and where you grew up. Get up and go see all the
Sometimes the grass IS greener... (Score:2)
Seriously, there is nothing that's "one size fits all", and that goes for places, events, other people, clothing, food, etc.
- Some people actually like the rural/suburb communities, with their cliques, gossip, and all good and bad parts. Some of us are introverts and not interested in neighbourhood gossip/influence/power games at all, and thus may feel actually better in a large town where you're an anonymous nobody in a crowd.
- Some people
Hinder is not a noun (Score:5, Informative)
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Internet forums helped me open up (Score:5, Interesting)
Yet it was the internet where I dared post before I ever tried to contribute in such a way in a real life situations. The more I interacted online, the more comfortable (and confident) I felt doing the same in reallife to the point where I can approach strangers and start conversation.
*Shrugs* Maybe it was the internet or just getting older, as I realize this process happens to a lot of people who were extremely shy/self-conscious as teenagers. But there is no comparing the internet to TV, the TV is a passive medium, the internet is interactive. The only danger I see is when people start substituting the internet for real life.
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Re:Internet forums helped me open up (Score:5, Insightful)
I couldn't even post in an internet forum without the fear of humiliation.
But unlike real life, you can stay as anonymous as you want in a forum. And withdraw if things turn really sour.
Moreover, most forums have a subject, and if you that subject is sth which you really like (such as computer, Linux, etc.), you don't need to worry about boring people with it, because all other participants are in that forum because they have the same interest.
So the more I interacted in forums (or rather, Usenet newsgroups, at that time), the more confidence I built for "real life".
Maybe it was the internet or just getting older
Most definately the internet helped. At least in my case.
And the best part: you can also find resources about shyness and what to do about it on the Internet.
And about certain "other" personal traits as well ;-)
as I realize this process happens to a lot of people who were extremely shy/self-conscious as teenagers
And the same thing happens with that "other" personal trait too. Whereas in the olden days, some people waited until they were 50 to make that important announcement, today they feel quite comfortable about it in highschool.
But there is no comparing the internet to TV, the TV is a passive medium, the internet is interactive.
As TV is by nature a broadcast medium, it can only cater to the majority, and not to special interests.
The only danger I see is when people start substituting the internet for real life.
But the good thing is when they use it as a stepping stone into the real life, which they otherwise might not have. Not just by providing chat rooms, but also by providing lots of informational resources that show you how to change those traits that can be changed, and how to accept and stand up for those traits than cannot be changed.
Same here. (Score:2)
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We need an 'Ironic' mod for when Anonymous Cowards question moderation. But I can't tell if it should be '+1 Ironic' or '-1 Ironic'. Maybe they should both be options.
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Returning to the real world was much easier because while I didn't keep up with what was going on locally, I was still ve
I think you mean "hindrance" (Score:3, Informative)
I live in an apartment complex. (Score:5, Funny)
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This is your neighbor: I agree.
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Dont be so hasty.....there is this thing called Tabbed Browsing and lets just say it took a long time to type that.
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Or perhaps because as a medium, the internet is still too immature to displace a medium that has exis
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socialization is based on commitment (Score:3, Insightful)
Odd... (Score:2)
Weird. I'd think that the introverted (who would be too shy to go out into bars, but comfortable enough to participate in a chatroom) who would benefit most.
What kind of social support would an extrovert gain from the Internet, he has already all he needs "in real life"?
Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area.
Well given that the
Introversion isn't shyness (Score:2)
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I know. However, they often (but obviously not always...) come together.
I however don't particularly value the type of conversation with the type of people you meet in bars. Chit chat bores me silly.
Well, it's supposed to be a door-opener to further discussion (about more interesting subjects) or "activities" (let's not go into details here...). A way of "protocol negotiation" to find out where the heck common interests may lie (of course if there aren't any common interests t
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I thought it was supposed to be an attempt to get laid.
Not true in MY case ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Whilst I'm often 'accused' of living a solitary and isolated life, spending much of my time at home watching TV or chatting/surfing on the Internet or playing online games, I certainly don't feel that it has isolated me OR caused me to suffer from disengagement or bad moods. Quite the contrary infact. I've made many online 'friends' and when I
not a scientific study (Score:4, Interesting)
There's simply no basis for drawing conclusions here. while it's quite entertaining to talk about this, it would be a big mistake to actually think that either of these studies mean anything.
I'm pretty sure that if you did a few more studies, you could get some that confirm and some that refute the idea that internet use leads to/cure social isolation.
To quote a wise man:
"The only possible conclusion the social sciences can draw is: some do, some don't."
- Ernest Rutherford
well, duh, if the local area sucks (Score:3, Insightful)
Quality vs. Quantity not examined here... (Score:2)
re: maturity comes into play too.... (Score:2)
There was a similar "dating/friendship" site somebody referred me to in a URL a while back, and it seemed to take this to even more of an extreme. Basically, people would view your photos or bio and click to indi
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My girlfriend's dad's girlfriend's son (no, I'm not joking) is 12 years old and was bragging about how many MySpace friends he had after spent three entire days sitting in front of a computer while we were at a beach house on the Maine coast (and not swimming, surfing, kayaking, or spending any time enjoying the outdoors).
Perhaps I am wandering away from the main point you were trying to make, but you also brought up something else that I thought was interesting. When I was a kid (I'm 43) and went on vac
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Point taken. But having spent many childhood summers living in a Maine cottage so close to the Atlantic that high tide storms sprayed ocean water on our living room window, I must ask: Did *you* try swimming or surfing in that water?
It's beyond frigid and not altogether safe without a drysuit. As a child I could wade
bash.org quote #4279 (Score:2)
BombScare: the end guy is hard
The poor internet - it's so misunderstood socially.
Local Internet? It's possible (Score:2)
> decline in local knowledge and interest in living in
> the local area."
I don't think it's inherent in the technology. There's a dearth of local Internet resources. I have to give local media a D- overall when it comes to using the Internet effectively.
You can participate in a conversation about nearly anything on the net
It's not
Not necessarily (Score:2)
or maybe they interpret their results wrongly; I would say that using the internet is likely to widen your horizon. This will of course mean that on one hand you get to know about things that are far away geographic
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I think this sort of comment is made with little insight into what is being discussed. This sort of "intuitive" interpretation of the value of data collection and analysis is, if anything, a hinder_ence_ to finding the truth.
IMO what they have found may simply show that...
Give me empirical or logical, or even anecdotal evidence to support your opinion. Otherwise it's not worth bits on the wire.
or maybe they interpre
Agreed (Score:2)
I myself am a good example of this. I live in Australia, and was socially very largely lost until I first began using the Internet in 1994. Since then, I made contact with a number of people from several different countries, and found a far greater degree of acceptance than I had ever received for the most part offline in Australia. If it had not been for meeting my present girlfrien
my input: (Score:3, Informative)
I can say with 100% certinty that the net has GREATLY help my social life. I suffer from a rather permanent and disruptive physicological condition (that i wont go into details here) that was crippling my social interactions with the greater public. Through the net I was able to find, talk to and get support from others with the same condition. Suddenly I wasnt as alone, I found out how to seek treatment and now I am a FAR happier, more social, person.
Without the net i would still be wollowing alone in my room insted of enjoying life.
Maybe not but.... (Score:2)
I know Americans have a habit of verbing nouns but is nouning verbs now de rigeur?
Relevant in 2006? (Score:2)
Offhandedly suggesting things like "social networking" (which barely existed in 2002 as a unique phenomenon) could have contributed to t
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Translation:
"Many satellites were inside, with us before the interior come close
the good full communicational of the fist already".
Wow your spanish is pretty screwed.
the translation is:
"So many satellites in the communication era still can't make us get totally close" (literally, or so many sattelites in the communication age and we still cant get close enough)
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here's one page [cognitiveliberty.org]
And here's an essay [sondraslair.com] with some good references.
For my part, when I stopped watching television I was very surprised at just how little time I had in my day for all