More Massive Layoffs at AOL 220
dawnzer writes "It looks like AOL read the comments from Slashdotters saying that 950 employees do not constitute a 'massive' layoff. Several news sites are reporting that AOL is getting ready to cut 5,000 jobs, or roughly 26 percent of their global workforce. Now that's more like it."
Sweet (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
And more importantly, now all the noob AOL ISP ass clowns are going to be taking MY high speed cable bandwidth as they finally give up on quality support!
Cheers.
Re:Sweet (Score:3, Funny)
Uh, support? LostCluster, I think you need to remember that we're talking about AOL here.
Re:Sweet (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sweet (Score:3, Funny)
ME TOO!!!!
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
Re:Sweet (Score:2, Informative)
Employee Inbox tomorrow morning (Score:2)
You've Got Mail!
Re:Employee Inbox tomorrow morning (Score:2)
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
Re:Sweet (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, and, ME TOO!!!!
Froup (Score:2)
I have a good friend that no longer has a net.connecion. She said it was all over the day they added pictures.
Re:Sweet (Score:5, Funny)
It was predictable (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree (Score:2)
They could roll a linux distro and even offer it on their own system. In fact, they could create the system and target the newbies or those with old windows systems. This would allow them to quit trying to compete with MSN under MS's rules. But I have always given them little chance of doing it.
Re:It was predictable (Score:2)
Missives of September (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It was predictable (Score:2)
Re:It was predictable (Score:3, Interesting)
So while they are cutting in the US, they may well keep growing in Europe. So rather than thinking of AOL as being EOL, maybe they should just change their name to that and get on with it.
let me see if I got this straight (Score:3, Funny)
Conspiracy! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Conspiracy! (Score:2)
Re:Conspiracy! (Score:2)
Now that's more like it?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll bet you'd be a lot less glib about it (and way more pissed off) if it was your job on the line. Especially if you saw people making comments like that!
Economic Perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Economic Perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
They do serve a unique function: Spam control.
They've been known as the 800 lb. anti-spammers for several years now. Read what you want to in the news about Microsoft's efforts, but fan away the smoke and there's nothing left but the mirror you're standing on. Microsoft has made some money, directed it to their "big three" (Huey, Dewey, and Louie - aka Marketing, PR, and Sales), and Dewey has done a good job of ensuring they make a lot of press by looking terrific. When you hear a consensus of HotMail issues and bCentral.com ratified in the anti world, then perhaps it's safe to venture back online. Microsoft's anti efforts are supposed to be a hammer, looking at 2003-U-CAN-SPAM as a blueprint. Has the volume decreased?
Aside from AOL, how many other Fortune 500 companies are actually doing something about spam generated by their resources, either by providing online services or have zombies?
By-and-large, AOL has had at least one person monitoring SPAM-L beyond the PORN (Post Once, Read Nothing) factor, where others such as Tropica have done. When questions have arisen, AOL has been pretty open about what they're doing and resolving issues. If they were like everyone else, they'd have left the guy who walked with their member list go. They pursued his hairy ass and taped his buns together.
Oh, and Louie could be generating more local (U$) income if the piracy@microsoft.com address actually worked. If you send them too little info, they tell you they need everything. Send everything along with an explanation at the top, and it'll be rejected, telling you it looks too much like spam. Send them text asking which way they want it and silence. Send plaintext message + ROT13 for the headers+payload, silence. Plaintext explaining you are unable to send anything, the response is, "We're working on it." So much for being a good guy. (actually, it started as an experiment and I had to see what happened all of the way around.
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nah (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
Wait, I guess AOL does it because intellectual property protection is too weak in the US. Another DMCA++ is needed. Net neutrality is to be blamed for the lay-offs. Legislators have to combat net neutrality to secure jobs...
They will have to move jobs abroad. AOL CD will get distributed to new emerging markets such as Iraq or the Democratic Republic of Congo. New markets such as home decorating [photobucket.com]...
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
That's exactly what corporate stakeholders want you to think. It keeps your compensation package low and retention high because you're content with simply having a job in the first place.
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is simply not true unless you have no skills and nothing to offer. I got bored and posted my resume to monster.com and the response I got was overwelming, I eventually took it off of there because I was getting so many calls/emails. It was also not all headhunters, only about 25% (if that) were not people who actually worked for the companies that the jobs were at. I don't think I have anything exceptional to offer other than a pretty good understanding of c/c++ and the STL and I also can learn new concepts quickly. Sure, some of the companies offered shit salaries but there were quite a few that were between $75k-125k+, all for around 4 years of experience (and I have 2 but they still were interested) which seems damn good to me.
Two years ago the job market was tough, it took me six months to find the job I am at now and it was very frustrating. The job market nowadays however is worlds better if you at least have something to offer.
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Bull
I know several people who are very smart, can jump into just about anything, and beat the pants off anyone... with years of experience to show for it.
But, because they were managers, and don't have 10 years of experience with version a.b.c of a specific financials package, the hiring company doesn't want to waste their time.
Or they make the interview and get rejected because of a bankruptcy 6 years ago that was
If they are that clever and experienced.... (Score:2)
Or heading their own bussiness?
Sorry pal, the jobs are out ther, but it is only for people with some skills and determination.
If recrutiment is so draconian that even your credit rating is scrutinized in order to get a new job, then one should move to a different state or country.
There are options, but people want the easiest one, which is not necessarily the best one.
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
So, now we've gone from intelligent to "effectively intelligent". Looks like the reasoning is starting to take on a circular shape...
Hey, some people just get screwed by circumstances... not nearly as many as say they do... but it happens.
>Don't tell me that someone is effectively intelligent if they can't do it for the reasons you sited above.
I don't get it. "Intelligent person" who gets screwed by ex-wife is scr
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:3, Informative)
The US has some of the lowest unemployment in the world. In fact, economists hate it when it gets much lower than it is now because labor costs start to rise exponentially. Don't give me the 'they are all minimum wage jobs' line either. They are not. I don't know about your area, but around here (Pittsburgh) even a fast food restaraunt has to pay quite a bit m
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
I'll bet you'd be a lot less glib about it (and way more pissed off) if it was your job on the line. Especially if you saw people making comments like that!
You're talking about AOL, I'd be annoyed but at least from now on I wouldn't need to hide what company I work for when people asked.
Honestly if you can't handle losing your job you will not do well in the
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:5, Insightful)
At that point I reminded my rep that the Attorney General in my state (NY) had already filed a case against AOL for doing exactly what she was doing then (strong arming people and not allowing them to cancel their services when asked). I told her I would call the AG with a compliant and use her name. At that point she finally cancelled my services.
AOL has a well established record of legal violations and disgraceful business tactics (not to mention dumb ones). The people who willfully and knowingly performed these things are sleaze bags (and it seems AOL had LOTS of them). I find a lot of things deserve compassion in the world but f00kin AOL and its army of creep employees aint one of them.
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
This shows why capitalism works! (Score:2)
You're talking about displacing 5,000 other people from their job, their primary source of income (most likely), and you think that it warrants a "now that's more like it"? I'll bet you'd be a lot less glib about it (and way more pissed off) if it was your job on the line. Especially if you saw people making comments like that!
Actually, this is a prime example of why capitalism beats out other systems. Yea it sucks for those 5000, but it is the best thing in the long run. AOL is a dinosaur that has n
re: AOL and unemployment (Score:2)
I can't
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
But 3,000 of them are.. (Score:2)
Though it is important to note that AMERICA Online doesn't sell very well in EUROPE.
On the upshot, after 14 years of AOL, my parents have made the transition to DSL and real IMAP email access. Days before they cancel, they find out that all the hassle of making sure people had the new email addresses they get to keep them. Thats good customer service, being good to customers even after they stop paying you.
Mr Fazlazen.... (Score:2)
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2)
And we can at least be sympathetic to the poor SOBs that are getting ticketed. It's pretty amazing the attitudes of people here, that didn't seem to get the sarcasm, but have no sympathy for the workers. Comparing them to Death Star contractors or saying that "they should have seen the writing on the wall at AOL a long time ago."
The flip side of this attitude is that when jobs get outsourced off shore, they whine and complain, despite
Spare us the drama. (Score:2)
A paycheck is not necessary to feed your family on these places. Is to what any self respecting individual aspires, but not having one is not a tragedy of the sorts many
It may be an unpleasent experience but by large is not a life threatening one for anybody but the mentally ill (depression, etc).
You want tragedy?
I have friends in both Beirut and Basra. Being a techie
Re:Spare us the drama. (Score:2)
That's what I'm seeing on some of the posts here, and you seem to be defending them.
Re:Now that's more like it?? (Score:2, Insightful)
To all those who are still there, save yourself. To all my fellow refugees, I hope you are enjoying sle
Wonder if this works for other things... (Score:2)
I wonder if this works for other things...
One year delay in Vista a "small" delay? Hell, back in my day when the Duke Nukem Forever team said small delay they meant it would only be a few more decades!
Does this mean... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
Not Cool... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not so bad, either.. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's one of the risks inherent in participating in a capitalist economy. The potential exists to do very well, but there is also the potential that things might slip in the opposite direction. Is it cool? Not really, because it does tend to disrupt peoples' lives. Do I feel sad for them? Not really, because it's all part of the game called "US of A". And let's not forget that there are other parts of the world where just getting a single meal is the biggest worry.
Re:Not so bad, either.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not so bad, either.. (Score:2)
Not everyone is a 'poor me' whiner. Some of us understand that life can throw you curveballs. You adapt, improvise, and overcome. That's the only real choice.
That's how capitalism works (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that there's no need to get doom and gloom about it. I know that for the average citizen unemployment and inflation are signs of the apocalypse, and politicians use them as such in campaigns... then proceed to forget that they promised solving both. That's because they're not. Read something about keynesian economics [wikipedia.org], which is how the economy works nowadays, and especially about the Phillips curve [wikipedia.org].
In a nutshell, there's a corelation between the two, and if you push one down, the other one goes up. And what governments can do is pick a point on the curve and try to keep the economy around that point.
What does this have to do with this? Well, it's darn simple: for the last 60-70 years (depending on the country) everyone had the unemployment basically where they wanted it. In spite of the constant "waah, another company lays off 5000 workers, our country is doomed" scares, that's never actually been a long term problem. So some other company or several smaller companies will figure out "hey, look at all the workers we could hire in city X" and proceed to do so.
Incidentally that kind of a correlation isn't even just an effect of the last century, but you can see effects as far back as, say, the 1300s and 1400s. The plagues and resulting utter lack of unemployment for, say, peasants, caused a massive inflation and were in the end the cause of the Renaissance.
And you can see the same economics at work on a smaller scale in the limited domain of IT in the dot-com bubble, where lack of enough workforce caused the salaries to spiral up out of hand, and the cost of any resulting program reflected it. There the impact was absorbed by the rest of the society, but imagine the same economy-wide. If for every job there wasn't a pool of unemployed workforce, and companies had to pay a premium even to get receptionist, you'd see the prices rising accordingly.
It may seem calous and lacking empathy to say that someone has to be unemployed for the economy to work, and it partially is, but that's how it works. Rebelling against it is like rebelling against gravity: not very productive. We have to work with what works, not with what would be an idealist utopia. All we can do to make it more palatable is to offer some unemployment benefits and some government demand for work and move on.
And at the risk of going off topic, that's another reality that we have to live with: that governments actually have to do that kind of thing. In spite of bullshit pseudo-economic theories idealizing lean governments and some idealized image of unrestricted 19'th century capitalism, it stopped working that way in the Great Depression. That's when the economy of scarcity ended. The countries that got out of the crisis fast were the ones whose government overspent: be it FDR's New Deal, or Germany's and Italy's spending on armament. The countries which didn't, got to enjoy a jolly good depression until WW2: e.g., Canada.
Funny what things you get to learn when you take your economic theories from real economists, instead of from novelists. (*cough* Ayn Rand *cough*) But that's another discussion for another time.
It is not cool in the US because .... (Score:2)
In civilized countries workers get some compensation to help them while they find a new job.
Re:Not Cool... (Score:2)
There are a number of reasons for layoffs. One is to return a struggling company to profitability by cutting the fat. However, most of the fat i
Slashdot's New Response (Score:5, Funny)
Too late to get in on the ground floor? (Score:2)
Invest now: http://www.aolmemorabilia.com/links.html [aolmemorabilia.com]
I saw a fish wall sculpture out of disks some guy did that looked pretty good. And never again will I be able to open my door and say, "I've got mail!" as one of their packages propped up by my mailman falls before me. Actually, the wood/pressed cardboard boxes they got into made nice remailers. End of an era.
Re:Too late to get in on the ground floor? (Score:3, Funny)
Of what quality are the jobs? (Score:2)
Re:Of what quality are the jobs? (Score:3, Informative)
I'll repeat myself... (Score:2)
MISQUOTE (Score:5, Funny)
Following last nights board meeting, the AOL directors would like to confirm the rumours that we have decided to move away from our core business, the manufacture and distribution of drink coasters and frizbees. We are now seeking to restructure the relevant departments and pursue a profitable business model of providing our internet services at no cost to non subscribers. [ Long Pauses ] As a result we belive that within 6 months anyone in our employ today with half a brain will no longer be with the company....*phone rings* ahhh, hello?. yes Satan... sorry I gotta take this
Recent mass mailing from AOL (Score:5, Informative)
Dear AOL Member,
I want to let you know about some exciting changes happening at AOL. Our service has always been an all-in-one solution for our members, consisting of:
1. Connectivity - a way of connecting to the Internet (through a dial-up or high-speed connection), and
2. Content and Services - bringing you useful tools and features like email, security and an entertaining online experience once you're connected.
Today we are announcing that AOL's software, email, and other compelling AOL features will be free to everyone who has an Internet connection -- including your Address Book, Screen Name, the Buddy List® feature and more. AOL will continue to provide a dial-up connection for you, and we will continue to offer several reliable and affordable options for getting online.
What Does This Mean for You?
Nothing about your service arrangement with us will change unless you want it to. Your current plan, which includes Internet connectivity, 24/7 customer support, unlimited email storage, your email addresses, and all the AOL content and services you rely on, will still be there for you.
If you do at some point choose another provider to connect you to the Internet:
* You can keep your AOL Screen Name and email address for as long as you want to use it, completely free;
* You can continue to use your AOL software, and you can still get all your favorite features and content, completely free;
* You will still get AOL's comprehensive safety and security tools, protecting you from online hackers, spammers and identity thieves, completely free.
All of this is free, no matter who provides your Internet connection.
Why Is AOL Doing This?
We're simply changing with the times. There are many options for Internet access, whether it's dial-up or broadband. At the same time, a lot of online content and services are now available on the Web free of charge because they are supported by advertising. So, while your Internet connectivity needs may change over time, what you love about the Web does not. We are now able to ensure that the familiar AOL experience, your Screen Name, your Address Book, your Buddy List, your Favorite Places, and other content and features you enjoy, will always be available to you for free.
In September, you will be hearing more about changes at AOL. Until then, you can visit AOL Keyword: New AOL for more information and to sign up for informative email alerts.
Sincerely,
Jon Miller
Chairman and CEO
AOL LLC
Re:Recent mass mailing from AOL (Score:2)
I interpretted this press release as follows.
Re:Recent mass mailing from AOL (Score:2)
How long did it take AOL to admit that? I'll bet he's in therapy.
Obviously... (Score:2)
Just off the top of my head I can see customer service and marketing employees jobs not being as needed.
How Do companies make money off just ads? (Score:2)
Re:How Do companies make money off just ads? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How Do companies make money off just ads? (Score:2)
AFAIK, the billboard companies gave up on the subscription model a really long time ago. =)
Lots more coming. (Score:2)
I work for AOL (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I work for AOL (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, OK...except you didn't post as AC, Mr. "Quokkapox"...
- Your Boss
P.S. Please see HR in the morning.
Re:I work for AOL (Score:3, Interesting)
Man... I was about to say they were probably firing 5000 of their asshole customer retention specialists [insignific...oughts.com]. I guess I shouldn't make fun of customer retention to their face. :/
Re:I work for AOL (Score:2)
use their magic powers to retain their jobs?
Re:I work for AOL (Score:3, Funny)
Work Free For 45 Days! (Score:5, Funny)
**You must call to cancel your employment status or will continued to be employed at the standard rate.
This doesn't mean anything.... (Score:2)
more money in the economy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:more money in the economy? (Score:2)
Re:more money in the economy? (Score:2)
Just need to know. (Score:2, Interesting)
Which employees are these?
The people who work at the AOL booths giving away coasters(CDs)?
The Mexicans who work customer support in Spanish?
Coders and network admins?
Because the article doesn't give much details.
You should research the Auto Industry (Score:2)
I'm sure there's more examples like that to mention. Although everything is relative to the size of the company, but, the numbers are way more telling.
AOL doesn't suck. (Score:3, Interesting)
It would seem that AOL is still in reorganization and are trying to find it's niche in the broadband market. And the AOL software will change as a result. AOL Explorer is probaly the beginning of that change.
layoffs ? (Score:2)
As an old CompuServe member... (Score:4, Interesting)
All just ants anyway.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, if this happened to a relative of yours or a friend, I doubt that you'd be so cheery. Happily, in this case, you've got an axe to grind and you have no personal stake in the lives of the people affected. Congradulations, you have scaled the moral high ground and can now lob down spitballs on the people beneath you without worrying about friendly fire incidents. I bet from all the way up there, they just look like ants anyway.
Stay tuned for the posting of the layoff dates so that you can be ready to show up at your nearest AOL office and jeer the people being escorted out by security. I'm sure they deserve everything they get because they worked for AOL. Make sure and wear your "Don't be Evil" T-shirts for maximum effect.
What should people do then? (Score:2)
Sorry pal, we can't have it both ways. Most people, rightly, dislike AOL, this reflects and lower marketshare, lower profits (or both) which eventually impacts the workforce.
People in general gloath about AOL problems, not about the individuals affected by this measure.
Come down from your high horse, you have no reason to be riding it.
Biggest mistakes of AOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Terminate my employment? Oh, I don't allow that... (Score:4, Funny)
AOL HUMAN RESOURCES: We wanted to terminate your employment.
John: Sorry to hear that. Let's pull my account up here real quick. Can I
have your name please?
HR: Vincent.
John: I've had this job for a long time.
HR: Yup.
John: I work here quite a bit. What was the cause of wanting to terminate my employment today?
HR: We just don't use you anymore.
John: Do you have outsourced or subcontracted employees elsewhere?
HR: Yup.
John: How long have you had those...
HR: Years...
John:
HR:
John: Well, actually I'm showing a lot of hours of this employee.
HR: Yeah, a long time, a long time ago, not recently...
John: Okay, I mean is there a problem with my performance?
HR: No. we just don't use you, we don't need you, we don't want you. We just don't need you anymore.
John: Okay. So when you use me... I mean, use my services, I'm saying, is that for business customers or for... for home users?
HR: Dude, what difference does it make. We don't want you working at AOL anymore. Can we please terminate your employment?
You get the idea...
-Steven
Severance package (Score:3, Funny)
AOL now with new Paycheck Blocker (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Their helping us... (Score:2)
Like clubbing baby seals, or drowning puppies or something...
Keeping jobs is never a good reason to keep anything going.
In a great many ways, meaningless labor is worse than doing nothing.
Re:I can't wait til AOL is gone. (Score:2, Insightful)