Oracle 'Losing Patience' with XenSource, VMware 165
HiTech writes "eWeek has an article looking at Oracle's frustration with both XenSource and VMware over their reluctance to work together. The goal is to develop a single interface for virtualization solutions in the Linux kernel. Oracle's comments follow those by Linux kernel maintainer Greg Kroah-Hartman at Oscon last week that XenSource and VMware were butting heads instead of working together to come up with a joint solution. Brian Byun, VMware's vice president of products and alliances, admits the company had been approached by a neutral third party for offline mediation to establish how best to make this happen. But Simon Crosby, the CTO for XenSource, rules out any mediation, saying he believes the two companies are committed to solving the real technical issues."
Compromise (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously people, this is computer software we're talking about, not Israel and Hezbollah. I think they can come to a compromise pretty soon here.
Re:Compromise (Score:5, Insightful)
Long history of wheel reinvention (Score:5, Insightful)
However, if there's anything we can learn from that, it's that sometimes there are benefits to re-inventing something that already exists, and in some cases may already seem to work okay. What seems like a complete waste of time to one person might create a result that's just different enough in some way to be really useful to somebody. (In the case of Linux, to a lot of us anyway, it was Unix but without the high cost and crappy licensing, and with the ability to see the source; hugely significant to some people but I'm sure it looked totally redundant to Unix people.)
Sometimes reinvention is necessary. You make a good point though, that there does seem to be a lot of it going on at any given time, and maybe that doesn't need to be the case here -- in any event, it seems like the reasons for taking parallel roads to the same place rather than working together should be carefully considered.
Re:Long history of wheel reinvention (Score:2)
I'm sure you've been corrected on this point already, but if not, I'll reinforce it.
Linux the kernel was probably a pseudo-clone of the minix kernel, but the surrounding operating system (often called "Linux"), was most-certainly not a reinvention of anything that existe
Re:Long history of wheel reinvention (Score:2)
GNU/Linux is a clone of Unix.
Re:Long history of wheel reinvention (Score:2)
Re:Long history of wheel reinvention (Score:2)
Yes.
Very dissimilar?
Do a man 2 fork on SVR3, SVR4, linux, bsd. Tell me what the biggest difference is.
Try the same on VMS, CMS, Vulcan, George III, Guardian, Multics...
Do you know what Unix is? Debian GNU/Linux is a Unix, Debian GNU/BSD is a Unix, arguably even Debian GNU/HURD is a Unix. It's a Unix if it has a Unix syscall interface, filesystem and utilities.
You Stallmanist! (Score:2)
We know that GNU's Not Unix, and Gnu Hasn't Been Unix for Over 20 Years (GHNBUFO20Y), though of course Unix these days mostly _is_ the community effort, regardless of whose compiler or kernel is used. For instance, I tend to use X-Windows/Linux most of the time, and vi instead of emacs, though fairly
Re:You Stallmanist! (Score:2)
Perhaps you should do a little research instead of posting the same drivel that I posted when I was in high school.
The phrase "TCP/IP" isn't primarily about credit, and neither is "GNU/Linux", despite what rms may claim. The phrase "GNU/Linux" is about disambiguation. Unlike with, for example, FreeBSD, Linux does not have a single userland, so we need to be specific. GNU runs on top of all sorts of kernels, and there are several userland environments that can be constructed on top of Linux kernel. GNU
Re:You Stallmanist! (Score:2)
As far as research goes, do you even have your Mentally Contaminated button? I've worked on far more non-Linux variants on Unix than I have on Linuxes - I started with v6 using Mashey Shell,
Re:You Stallmanist! (Score:2)
I'm well aware that the GNU project's push for "GNU/Linux" is about credit. My point (which I probably overstated) is that it is nevertheless valid to use "GNU/Linux" for disambiguation in cert
Re:You Stallmanist! (Score:2)
But generally anybody who rants about how you SHOULD use the term isn't saying anything meaningful and can be ignored.
GNU, Linux kernel, etc. (Score:2)
I'm aware of the difference between the GNU toolset/userland and the kernel. However, the GNU utilities are, collectively, a clone of a sort of generic UNIX userspace. That's the joke behind the name "GNU's Not UNIX," because just by looking at it, it looks a whole lot like UNIX. (This is freely admitted [gnu.org] by the FSF: "We decided to make the operating system compatible with Unix because the overall design was already proven and portable, and because com
Re:Compromise (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed. Why are there so many filesystems? Because there are good reasons for it. Some filesystems, like ISO9660, provide access to standards-based media (CDs, DVDs), others like ext3 are intended to provide advanced features like journalling and still retain backward compatibility with ext2 utilities. Still others, like ReiserFS and XFS are intended to provide the most advanced features and highest performance possible; ReiserFS as an overall enterprise-class server filesystem and XFS provides excellent performance for streaming media applications. JFS tries to add compatibility with AIX5L. Each filesystem addresses a different need.
This is also true of Xen vs. VMWare. VMWare was originally geared at doing desktop stuff; they later tuned things for server virtualization; but the aim has always been to provide as much compatibility with all the major guest and host operating systems. Xen is aimed at doing server virtualization with maximum performance -- the number and types of guest OSes isn't as important, as Xen basically only supports running Linux on Linux. Other OSes may work as well, but the main goals are different.
Re:Compromise (Score:2)
1 - Come closer to squeezing out every drop of resources your racks have to give
2 - Make your racks easier to manage and recover (adding failover and high availability)
3 - Ma
Re:Compromise (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Compromise (Score:2)
Re:Compromise (Score:2)
Re:Compromise (Score:2)
Are you kidding? (Score:5, Funny)
You're kidding, right? This is computer software, the battleground of OCPD [wikipedia.org] personalities, where one aspect is taken out of context and used to judge something into "perfect" and "complete evil" categories, with no middle ground. And then proceed to try to raise a crusade to death against the complete evil ones. It's the place where vi vs emacs, KDE vs Gnome, Java vs C++, Intel vs AMD, goto vs for/while loops, and of course OSS vs anything else isn't just worth a debate, but become religious wars and things to fight to death for or against.
I bet that when your stereotypical ultra-militant extremist-Islamist organization's meetings go out of hands, someone could interject "stop it guys, you're starting to sound like on the OpenBSD mailing lists." And, assuming they've even heard of OpenBSD, the previously screaming and fist-shaking speakers would blush and start staring at their own shoes in silence.
In fact, if the Hesbolah vs Israel _were_ like the software holy wars, God help us, because there's be no possibility of peace ever. I could just see a peace talks turning into "ok, you may have aggreed to free Palestine, pay reparations, change your language to Arabic, convert to Islamic faith, recognize the Ayatolah's authority and everything... but... YOU RUN YOUR SERVERS ON WINDOWS! DIE INFIDEL!!!"
Re:Compromise (Score:2)
Of course.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course.... (Score:3, Insightful)
What? Nothing to do with interoperability? Xen and Vmware need to sit down & hammer out a shared API - but its nothing to do with interoperability?
Imagine if the first line of the TFA was:
Re:Of course.... (Score:2)
What? Nothing to do with interoperability? Xen and Vmware need to sit down & hammer out a shared API - but its nothing to do with interoperability?
Right: nobody is trying to get Xen and VMware to work with each other. Substitutability might be a better term.
VMware is fast losing its patience with both Oracle and Postgresql over their reluctance to work together to help develop a single interface that will integrate a variety of clustering filesystem solutions in the Linux kernel.
Right, what wo
Impatience is a Virtue (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Impatience is a Virtue (Score:2)
Re:Impatience is a Virtue (Score:2, Insightful)
70% Insightful
20% Overrated
10% Flamebait
TrollMods can't agree on which way they prefer to deny the way incompatible SQL screws them. Sounds like competing DB astroturf teams.
Slashdot seems to have institutionalized the equation of "criticism = flamebait". If Mods had to write a reason why they downmodded, it might slow down the trolls among them, or just give MetaMods something to make their job easier.
Re:Impatience is a Virtue (Score:2)
Yes, there are SQL language standards (which are lamentably followed by commercial and open source databases at about a 7-year lag). But there are no standardized protocol interfaces for connecting to databases. So every different database requries a custom protocol driver of some sort. Even programming-language-specific but "standard" database APIs (ODBC, JDBC, ADO.NET, whatever) require a driver layer beneath them to speak the particualr database connection protocol needed.
I recall reading about a Micros
Re:Impatience is a Virtue (Score:2)
Re:Impatience is a Virtue (Score:2)
Or the database is layed out and indexed correctly and you can get all the data you need, using basic SQL and you only need to pull a couple records at a time.
Re:Impatience is a Virtue (Score:2)
Please, tell us how to pull "a couple records at a time" using only basic SQL.
I use postgres's "SELECT
Oracle basically appears to be "create a cursor, move the cursor forward y rows, then read x rows". Or you can use the SELECT ROW_NUMBER() OVER (ORDER BY somefield) AS rownu
fleshing out the question (Score:5, Interesting)
It will be interesting to see who's chumming, who's fishing and who's cutting bait when this boat comes in. Is it possible VMWare is trolling Oracle for an offer, playing hardball like this?
Re:fleshing out the question (Score:4, Funny)
Well, that mixed metaphor sure came out of left field!
Re:fleshing out the question (Score:2)
or just too much Shark Week (tm)?
Re:fleshing out the question (Score:2)
Is it possible VMWare is trolling Oracle for an offer, playing hardball like this?
An offer of what???
Re:fleshing out the question (Score:2)
from Xen. I'd really like to know who the 'neutral third party' is.
I have a hunch they are not so neutral.
accrodnig to sicentists . . (Score:2, Funny)
lwn.net has a couple of articles about this (Score:4, Interesting)
Typical. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Typical. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Typical. (Score:2)
Re:Typical. (Score:2)
Do you think that Linus should be forced to accept the VMI patches into his kernel?
Re:Typical. (Score:2)
So why is Oracle crying about it? Instead of complaining that other companies need to get their act together and bind two different solutions to a problem in a way that serves Oracle, Oracle could write one management interface that does what they want for each of the two environment
Ego (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ego (Score:3, Interesting)
While closed source or people working in comerical their EGO is more professionally cont
Think Xorg vs. XFree. (Score:3, Insightful)
Part of the problem: Xen isn't baked yet (Score:4, Interesting)
The VMWare pressure, however, doesn't help. EMC/VMWare has a killer cadre of coders. They're very good and well paid, and can shift quickly to keep ahead of the market. Yes, it's largely NOT free open source software. Ok, it's free in some cases, but not OSS.
Am I asking them not to beat up on Xen? Yes. It still needs to cook before it's going to be ready for prime time use. Until then, it's premature.
Re:Part of the problem: Xen isn't baked yet (Score:2)
Seriously, though, VMWare works well enough to support lots of production environments, and Xen doesn't, and therefore Xen loses unless you're doing one of the things it supports reliably. And Xen only supports open-source clients that you've Xena-fied, or owner-modified closed-source clients, while VMWare apparently supports almost anything. If you want to run Windows as a
VMMs (Score:4, Insightful)
VMMs were created, in part because Operating Systems were unstable, incompatible, and often too big. Now we have all these VMMs that are unstable, incompatible, and trying to to more and more. So the question is:
(1) What has the VMM community learned from the OS community, and
(2) Why should I believe that we're going to get right this time?
There isn't already a "default" interface?... (Score:3, Interesting)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't both Intel and AMD has develloped something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderpool) that will make it possible to run unmodified guest OSes under the same supervisor? If so, why bother with a common interface to the Linux Kernel, if this interface won't be necessary?
It would be much better if they focused on supporting each other VM image format, so one could migrate a live Xen Domain to a VMWare server and vice-versa.
Re:There isn't already a "default" interface?... (Score:5, Informative)
And if you think getting them to agree on a Linux kernel interface is hard, just try getting them to agree to a common image format. It's not gonna happen.
Re:There isn't already a "default" interface?... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:There isn't already a "default" interface?... (Score:2)
For now, this is true. The expectation is that over time, using hardware virtualization will be beneficial. The paravirt_ops interface is designed so that there's at least one op corresponding to every trappable instruction. In the future, we'll be able to rewrite the calling location of a paravirt_op. One of the reasons for this is so that we can make the decisi
Re:There isn't already a "default" interface?... (Score:2)
No, that's not what this discussion is about. This is about a *higher* level interface than that provided by hardware. This whole debate is really about an API of less than 10 functions that do higher level operations. By hooking this higher level operations into the hypervisor, you can dramatically improve performance.
A canonical example is updating page tables. Normally, if you were to hook at the hardware level, updatin
Personal opinions (Score:5, Interesting)
VMware went to OLS and presented a paper demonstrating a VMI interface that runs either Xen or VMware at the same speed as the Xen interface. Xen has never tried to run on a VMware hypervisor, but XenSource went and signed a deal to run on the (future) Windows hypervisor. My opinion is that Xen is a bunch of hypocrites: they complain about how VMware isn't open, then go sign a deal with the least open company of all. Of course, I'm biased.
Xen wants VMware to adopt the Xen hypervisor interface. This is impossible. The Xen interface is too tightly coupled to the Xen hypervisor; it's missing pieces that are necessary to run the VMware hypervisor at reasonable performance. VMware doesn't really care which interface actually proliferates (as in, there will be a layer of interface glue regardless), so long as the interface is good enough. Xen's interface is not good enough. As of two weeks ago, Xen and VMI were the only two interfaces out there.
Greg K-H's gripe with VMware is that the kernel module isn't open source. Yes and no (I don't want to argue - the code is open but not GPLed), the point is that he's spending more time complaining about Xen and VMware than it would take to actually mediate the problem. (Which, thankfully, someone else is doing instead, with paravirt_ops).
Finally: I saw more pot-shots about being unable to benchmark VMware in the original article. That changed several months ago, benchmarks are now allowed by EULA. Certain companies ought to stop spreading FUD...
Re:Personal opinions (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Personal opinions (Score:5, Informative)
Disclaimer: Xen hacker, personal opinion
VMware went to OLS and presented a paper demonstrating a VMI interface that runs either Xen or VMware at the same speed as the Xen interface.
I missed OLS unfortunately but I've come to the conclusion that VMI is not the best interface for Xen long term. I should say that I was advocating VMI for a long time previously so this isn't just a knee-jerk reaction.
The problem with VMI is that it hides the hypervisor interface from the guest. Now, if you're VMware, this is ideal. If you're a Free Software project, and your interfaces are evolving overtime, having your interfaces hidden means that there's no pressure to improve them.
The biggest benefit for upstream merge for Xen will be a ton of hackers on LKML auditing the interfaces and saying where they suck and forcing us to change them. You don't want to hide the virtual timer interface behind PIT emulation. You want codesign.
This doesn't mean that Linux shouldn't support VMI. It just means that not all projects should standardize on the VMI ABI.
Xen has never tried to run on a VMware hypervisor, but XenSource went and signed a deal to run on the (future) Windows hypervisor. My opinion is that Xen is a bunch of hypocrites: they complain about how VMware isn't open, then go sign a deal with the least open company of all. Of course, I'm biased.
Please try to separate XenSource from the Xen community. Many of us don't work for XenSource and many of us think that XenSource does stupid things (this being a good example).
Xen wants VMware to adopt the Xen hypervisor interface.
Many of us don't even want Xen to use its own interface. Why would we wish it upon VMware
Imagine if every exec at every company loosely associated with Linux was quoted as gospel for Linux's future.
This is impossible. The Xen interface is too tightly coupled to the Xen hypervisor; it's missing pieces that are necessary to run the VMware hypervisor at reasonable performance. VMware doesn't really care which interface actually proliferates (as in, there will be a layer of interface glue regardless), so long as the interface is good enough. Xen's interface is not good enough. As of two weeks ago, Xen and VMI were the only two interfaces out there.
This is absolutely correct. The Xen interface is not rich enough to support a variety of hypervisors with reasonable performance. Anyone who claims differently is lying to you
Greg K-H's gripe with VMware is that the kernel module isn't open source. Yes and no (I don't want to argue - the code is open but not GPLed), the point is that he's spending more time complaining about Xen and VMware than it would take to actually mediate the problem.
Which is a valid gripe. VMware is going to get the short-end of the stick when interacting with the kernel community because they are doing something that is viewed both as immoral and illegal. There's an easy way to fix that...
Honestly, if there was a single Free hypervisor that worked with VMI (and L4 doesn't count
(Which, thankfully, someone else is doing instead, with paravirt_ops).
Yes, and this is going to be a very long process. I will say too that engineers from Xen and VMware have both been working together surprisingly well on this. There is an active conversation going on in the osdl-virtualization list and on other channels. Despite these stories, Xen and VMware are actually working together.
Finally: I saw more pot-shots about being unable to benc
Re:Personal opinions (Score:2)
Disclaimer: Just a virtualization user (currently VMware, Linux host with Windows guests), offering some feedback and requesting some enlightenment.
By "guest" here, do you mean the particular hypervisor instance (e.g. VMware or Xen) or the guest OS? If it's the OS, I very much want it oblivious to the fact that there's vi
Apples, Meet Oranges (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, the guest OS can very much benefit from being cooperatively virtualized.
A lot of realtime code is run along side the kernel under a rudimentary hypervisor (Google for nanokernels, Adeos [gna.org] and RTLinux [tldp.org] do this sort of thing). In this very important case, it is usually quite a pain to require the OS to have to implement the infrastructure to support emulated devices when it could
Re:Personal opinions (Score:4, Interesting)
Please try to separate XenSource from the Xen community. Many of us don't work for XenSource and many of us think that XenSource does stupid things (this being a good example).
Fair - and in hindsight, I should have noted that distinction, apologies. (That particular MS/XenSource alliance happens to be at the top of my stupid list ... it hurts Xen, XenSource, all other virtualization businesses (via FUD), and ultimately helps only Microsoft).
I actually don't like VMI either. I still believe the hypervisor should be hidden - if the OS wants a virtualized timer, it should use a paravirtualized device driver, the API for which is independent of the hypervisor's core interface - but I don't think that loading a ROM is the way to load an interface. It's re-inventing BIOS. Frankly, I don't think there is a good solution. And once the CPU vendors get their acts together and actually virtualize the MMU (yup, they virtualized the CPU but not the onboard MMU, VT/Pacifica v1 is as weak as a 286) then the pressure on paravirtualization decreases as the performance advantage disappears. (Device paravirtualization is still needed - but that's easy! And the ground is ripe for competition in the feature set of an emulated device.)
Re:Personal opinions (Score:2)
No, L4 hasn't supported it for a long time--only just recently. I said they don't count because they're doing it with previrtualization which is exceedingly cooler than any of this other stuff.
Is that bad? (Score:2)
WTF is this argument even about?! (Score:2)
Sounds like typical Linux crap (Score:2)
Re:Who cares. (Score:2, Insightful)
If you had bothered to RTA, you'd have seen that, evidently:
The article also mentions the Oracle Cluster File System technology (Open Source), as well as Oracle's recent acquisition of open-source database company Sleepycat and its Berkeley DB product earlier this year.
This may explain why I got a call rec
Right tool... (Score:2, Insightful)
Your type of attitude is just as stifling as proprietary offerings..."If your not open, then you are evil and must be destroyed. I'm taking my source and going home"
I'll play a risky card here. I see the value of open source and support it, but that doesn't mean it has to be the only game in town. Same thing with democracy. It is a superior gov't. However, does that mean we sho
Re:Right tool... (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think that is the position of the granparent. I believe it is more on the line of "If you aren't open, then don't pretend to be open. Opening up the minimum of resources, just to appear in the headlines is not fooling anyone".
I don't like this atitude of labeling stuff as evil and good. This tends to misrepresent almost everithing, google is good, sure what about all those secrets and the censorship in china (I actualy don't think that this is google's fault but many people think it is). MS is evil to root, but many people use their software and like it (it's not for me, but who am I to say what's best for everyone?). And so it goes, up to the infamous Bush's "axis of evil" that aparently if you classify to this group then it's okay if you are arrested and sent to Cuba to be tortured.
Come on people there are shades of gray, and even shades of yellow, green, blue and other colors. There are many sides, many ways to see the same fact, and many time what seems pure black from one of those sides can be clear as whater in other point of view.
Re:Who cares. (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong. (Score:5, Informative)
Ahem... "XenSource plays the dual role of leading the open source Xen(TM) community, while simultaneously selling value-added enterprise solutions based on Xen technology. [...] XenSource is backed by leading venture capital firms, including Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, Sevin Rosen Funds, Accel Partners, and New Enterprise Associates. [xensource.com]"
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:3, Interesting)
In addition to the topic links here's another.
http://news.com.com/VMware-friendly+change+likely+ for+Linux/2100-7344_3-6061019.html [com.com]
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
That doesn't make any sense. Since Xen is open source it's not like the interface could be usefully patented or anything, so there's nothing stopping any other hypervisor from just adopting Xen's design!
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2, Interesting)
vmware has set back virtualization. Morton admitted himself that he didn't know how it all worked
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Tell me, dipshit, at what point did I ever imply that VMWare should be "forced" into using the same interface?
Unless I'm mistaken, the issue here is that VMWare and Xen have different interfaces, and both want theirs to be the "official" one. So, no matter what, at least one of them will have to change or else the entire premise is moot. In other words, you said the problem was "Xen source was pushing a design that was exclusive to Xen," but the problem (as I understand) is that VMWare was pushing a design
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Unless I'm mistaken, the issue here is that VMWare and Xen have different interfaces, and both want theirs to be the "official" one.
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
It sounds that way, at first. But if you read closely, you'll notice this:
To me, that seems to imply that VMWare isn't actually trying to make a collaborative standard, but rather a proprietary, albeit stable and documented, interface that's custom-tailored to their favored design.
In other words, neither side seems to want to make compromises, although VM
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
After finding out exactly what VMWare's proposal was, I don't blame them! VMWare, as I suspected, was trying to give themselves an unfair advantage by making the standard a binary blob! From the article:
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
What I'm saying is that since VMWare is apparently working on it by themselves without Xen's input. What that means is that they're likely writing it to work perfectly with the way their software works, while Xen (and anyone else) would have to change the way their so
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Simon Crosby, the CTO for XenSource, said:
"The VMware team should be praised for engaging an open dialog with the Linux kernel and Xen communities, and they are actively engaging in the process," he said.
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
But that doesn't change the fact that VMWare's actual proposal isn't acceptable. Now that I read the article and see what the problem actually is, it's obvious that Xen is right and VMWare is wrong. In fact, my guess that VMWare was trying to give themselves an unfair advantage was spot-on -- they're trying to do put in proprietary code! VMWare's proposal "left the community having to design open-source code to interface to a "binary blob" of a closed source hypervisor."
Unfortunately, your quote comes righ
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
According to what I've read, it would work a lot like nVidia and ATi's proprietary graphics drivers, except that it would be worse because it would mandate a standard ABI. It's not okay for graphics drivers, and it shouldn't be okay for virtualization either!
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Here's a thought, first start with the actual VMI interface: http://www.vmware.com/interfaces/vmi_specs.html [vmware.com]
Read that, and see that it's a standardized API
Then read this again (actually for the first time) that I posted earlier
http://news.com.com/VMware-friendly+change+likely+ for+Linux/2100-7344_3-6061019.html?tag=nefd.top [com.com] where the current stable k
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
You know, in addition to reading that eWeek article you posted, I also read the paper presented at the 2006 Linux Symposium [linuxsymposium.org], which the eWeek article referenced. I know how the thing works now!
Nevertheless, I'll read the articles you linked, and use them to refute your points. From your first link:
"ABI" stands for "Application Binary
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
I know damn well what it's for! But the problem is that it has the side effect of introducting unauditable, unsupportable, un-Free binary blobs into the kernel. If we're going to do that we might as well close the whole source and call it Windows! It goes against everything Free Software stands for, and it ought to be a GPL violation (and if it isn't, it's
Errrr... what? (Score:2)
And VMWare works the same way (but does it with Ring-0 callouts, like QEMU).
What standards are they arguing about? Disk image formats? APIs for accessing dedicated hardware on the host machine? I'm guessing the latter, since that's all that Oracle would care about.
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Not necessarily. If VMWare writes perfect code and gives it away for free, then eventually customers will catch on, and will refuse to get support contracts. After all, if you are reasonably confident that the software you just downloaded is perfect, why on earth would you go through the unecessary trou
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
Re:What does VMWare have anything to do with this? (Score:2)
They both offer free (as in beer)and paid/supported products so i cannot see vmware or xensource is more evil than an other. I have no clue what
Re:OT: Is it hard to start using virtualization? (Score:3, Informative)
No, it's pretty easy. (Score:4, Informative)
I've set up VMWare Server (which is FAIB) on my Kubuntu Dapper system and it was quite easy. Basically you just follow the instructions, I didn't run into any major installation gotchas. You register with VMWare and they email you a serial number and a link to the download site; you run the installer and choose where you want things to be installed (I use
Only thing I ran into though: be careful of the networking option that you choose. The default is 'Bridged,' which creates a virtual interface using your machine's same network card, which then gets a DHCP address from your LAN router. This is nice because it means your virtual machine doesn't use the same IP as your host machine's native OS. This caused me some problems with services that I had running on the host, netatalk in particular. (The default configuration of netatalk is to try to automatically find the correct network interface, and it got confused by the virtual one apparently; explicitly defining which one to use solved the problem.)
Long story short: consider using the 'NAT' networking option until you know what you're doing; this does IP masquerading so that the VM uses your machine's regular network interface and IP address. It means there's an extra layer of NAT to punch through if you wanted to run services on the VM, but it keeps most of the complexity hidden inside VMWare.
After you get VMWare installed, you can either create a bare virtual hard disk and install whichever x86 OS you want, or you can download pre-configured virtual machines; I don't know if Edgy is one of these, but it might be.
Re:OT: Is it hard to start using virtualization? (Score:2)
Today, I'm installing a Win2K in a VMWare virtual machine using their free VMWare Server (www.vmware.com), and I must say it's far more slick and the performance is fantastic. If you got as far as installing Ubuntu, you can install VMWare and run Ubuntu in it. It's cake (and tasty cake too, I might add).