More Wii-mote Info 191
Psykechan writes "IGN has revealed some more info about Nintendo's Wii remote controller. Paraphrasing from the official Developer documentation, the controller will communicate with the console using Bluetooth and will last up to 60 hours on two AA (R6/UM3) batteries using only accelerometer functionality or 30 hours using precision aim functionality via the sensor bar. There's also details on memory, LEDs, possible camera functionality, and environmental distractions." From the article: "Light sources from fluorescent and halogen lamps, plastic, mirrors and more may occasionally interfere with the pointer, based on official documentation. To eliminate this interference, the pointer must identify the sensor bar and mark its two coordinates. When pointing with the Wii-mote, the unit is actually interacting with the sensor bar, which then translates data to the television, in effect simulating a direct aim to the television."
So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, really? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:So... (Score:3, Informative)
Also, Rob Simpson already made this point in another comment on this level, but he used Canadian prices when they're far from the majority on Slashdot. So, I'll say it again: battery chargers are cheap [bestbuy.com]. $20 for four batteries and the charger? I do believe that most people can afford that if they're paying $200+ for a console.
Re:So... (Score:3)
So you go to Best Buy and buy one. What's the big deal? You're talking as if battery chargers are a big ticket item that'll bankrupt Bill Gates.
Sheesh.
-Z
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Just say no to battery packs. (Score:4, Informative)
The only excuses for using proprietary batteries at all are if the form factor is such that a standard-shaped (AA/LR6 NiMH) won't fit, or the increased energy density of a Li-ion is required.
The best combination is to use standard-sized, replaceable cells and then have an external charging port so that the batteries can be charged without removing them from the device. Unfortunately, few manufacturers of consumer products do this because of the safety features you need to put on the charger in order to keep it from trying to charge the alkalines that people will inevitably put in there, even if you warn them not to.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2, Interesting)
1. How often do you need to replace a proprietary battery in a device that just charges in a docking station?
2. How often do you need to replace the standard batteries by pulling them out (one by one) and popping them into your charger (one by one)?
I get the feeling that you have to do 2 much, much, more frequently than 1. (a few orders of magnitude more often)
I'd rather pay for the convenience of never touching those damn batteries.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Plus, with standard AA/AAA size batteries, I'd get to take advantage of any new battery technology that may appear. Can't do that with a proprietary pack.
Thanks for the FUD.
With any proprietary battery, you change it every two years or so (depending on the size, how many charge cycles it goes through, etc), which means there's no reason the device won't work in 10 years. You would
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Same goes for the Logitech MX-1000 mouse [logitech.com] I use at the office. The rechargeable battery is non-replaceable. Heck, there isn't even a single screw on the damn thing that would allow me to open it up without totally fucking with the casing. It's 18 months old and still alive, but when the battery dies, it's going straight into
Re:So... (Score:2)
Distances (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Distances (Score:2)
Re:Distances (Score:2)
Re:Distances (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Distances (Score:2)
SHHH!
Nobody is supposed to realize that the Wii-mote is just a light gun bolted on to a wireless joystick. Nintendo INNOVATES!!! Everything about the Wii is radical and new. It is not just a slightly-improved GameCube with a light gun, it's a "Revolution." Freedom is slavery. Big Brother is watching.
Weird information (Score:3, Funny)
I just can't visualize or imagine what puprose this will have. Anyone have any ideas?
Re:Weird information (Score:2)
Re:Weird information (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't believe it at all. You can see my other comment in this topic to see why.
That said, I can give you some ideas. One that has been floated around is that you would be able to have a little avatar of yourself that you could put into various games. This rumor seems to have come from the customized characters in the Wii Sports demo. You could use the camera to put your face on the model.
It could also be used more... creatively. Through image analysis you could turn any rough surface (even carpet) along
Barcode Battler! (Score:2)
Re:Weird information (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Weird information (Score:2)
I believe this an awkward way of describing the resolution of the position tracking system, i.e., how many discrete 'tics' can be measured (along each axis) as you move from the lower-left corner of the measurement area to the upper right.
I doubt that there is any sort of camera (in the "take a picture of your face for use in Wii Sports" sense) involved.
Re:Weird information (Score:5, Informative)
a) a game developer
b) who has access to the wii-mote and has read the dev documentation
c) somebody who likes IGN, although my like of them dies by the day
Trust me, it can never be used as a camera. It translates position into co-ordinates because, holy fuck batman, thats what a pointer does.
The difference with a joystick or analog stick is that you map the 'force' of the joystick (ie, pointed up down, left right) into some kind of velocity and acceleration and determine where on the screen the pointer should be
I read the article a few days ago on IGN, and for the most part, its correct. You have to distinguish between real input, and glare from windows or lights, and another interesting matter is that the controller is so sensitive that in order to deal with the input from the accelerometer you cant take what you get EVERY frame and go from that
But the 'maybe it can be used a camera' part is just like
Re:Weird information (Score:2)
a) a game developer
...
why am I working 50 hours a week to create something mediocre
I admire your honesty! But as Jack Bauer would say, "Who do you work for?" Just so I can, y'know, avoid their 'mediocre' games.
That's easy... (Score:2)
EA? Just guessing :-)
Re:Weird information (Score:2)
I read the article a few days ago on IGN, and for the most part, its correct. You have to distinguish between real input, and glare from windows or lights, and another interesting matter is that the controller is so sensitive that in order to deal with the input from the accelerometer you cant take what you get EVERY frame and go from that
Accelerometers are usually very sensative. I'm working with some that are on the order of 2 micro-"g"
Re:Weird information (Score:2)
Re:Weird information (Score:2)
It's a "Beacon Bar" not a "Sensor Bar" (Score:5, Insightful)
The "sensor bar" sounds more like a "beacon bar". I'm guessing that it has two flashing infrared LEDs, one at each end (or maybe more, they might be lying). Each LED flashes in a different pattern (or is maybe a cluster of LEDs in a different pattern, a "barcode" maybe).
The remote has a megapixel monochrome IR CCD in it. This picks up the position of the LEDs in the "sensor bar". After calibration, the position and inclination of the lights in the image can be used to calculate the vector of your aim.
This is a nice, elegant way of doing it. It's akin to the existing way that TV-aiming devices work (lightguns), except....
This is a serious improvement on lightgun technologies. You can play Zelda without seeing unrealistic muzzle flash when shooting a bow. It should work with ANY display technology, not just scanning-raster, as long as it doesn't get too large (and even then, you should be able to move the "beacon" bar closer to you to enable larger screens with equal angular accuracy). The horizontal accuracy should be much better. And I'll wager it improves the battery life, because the remote doesn't constantly have to emit radiation at the sensor bar, it just has to capture an image.
Bah, tried to do an ascii art of how I think it works, but the lamo-filter won't let it past.
Re:It's a "Beacon Bar" not a "Sensor Bar" (Score:3, Funny)
I must be hungry - I can't stop mis-reading that as "bacon bar".
Mmmmm.... bacon bar. Now there's a way to capture the market. "The Nintendo Wii - featuring revolutionary bacon bar technology!"
Can I pre-order one yet?
Re:It's a "Beacon Bar" not a "Sensor Bar" (Score:2)
AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because it can use AA batteries doesn't mean it won't have a rechargeable battery pack. Look at the Xbox 360 controller, for example. Out of the box, it comes with two AA batteries that fit into a little box that snaps into the controller. However, you can go out and buy a play and charge kit (battery + USB recharge cable) for ~$20 and use that instead. The battery pack is similar in shape to the AA battery cartridge and fits in the exact same place on the controller. Selling it separately may be seen as a money grab by some, but it does make sense (accessories == big money!) to help offset the console subsidy.
Then again, Nintendo didn't do that with the old Wavebird. If you wanted rechargeable batteries, you had to go out and buy your own AA-sized rechargeables. I would be very surprised if Nintendo didn't offer some sort of rechargeable battery pack for the WiiMote, though.
Re:AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:2)
Re:AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:2, Interesting)
That's the beautiful part about the 360's play and charge cable. It'll recharge and let you play at the same time (it'll recharge much more slowly that way, of course). Of course, then you're tethered to the console again, but it's better than waiting an hour or two for the batteries to charge back up. I guess if being wireless is really that important, you could buy two
they now make a separate charger... (Score:5, Interesting)
The play and charge doesn't really excite me. I use it, but when it runs down, I just grab my other controller with 2 AAs in it while the play and charge charges from my iPod USB power supply.
The play and charge has two major flaws:
1. If you charge your controller off your 360 while the 360 is "off", the 360 isn't really off, it is taking over 80W of power. It basically just turns off the video out. It gets hot and wastes a lot of power.
2. If you charge your controller off your 360 while the 360 is on, you must use that controller as player 1. That is, if any controller is attached by the play n charge kit to the 360, it becomes controller 1. If you turn it off (perhaps to make another controller #1), it just turns right back on and becomes #1 again. This sucks. This forces you to use the tethered controller to play, even if you have another that is charged. That is, unless you want to wait until your 360 is "off" to charge, in which case you end up at #1 again.
That's why I have to plug my controller into my iPod power supply (via the play n charge cable) to charge it. Weak.
Still, all in all it is a good controller, Sony will have trouble matching it with their PS3 controller.
yes, I did (Score:2)
I do not have overheating issues. The 360 cools itself fine (if not a bit loudly) as long as you don't put it in an enclosed space. Since it is so loud, I had to put it in an enclosed space and thus I had to find a way to ventilate that space. I do not feel the 360 gets hotter than I expect
I guess I described the problem wrong... (Score:2)
So, let's say I'm playing along solo, and my controller runs low. I decide to attach the play n charge kit to charge it while I use my other controller to play.
So, I first turn off my current controller. Whoops, it turned it back on as player 1 without giving me a chance to set the other controller as player 1. Okay, let's try it the other way, let
Re:AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:2)
However, you could buy one through a third party. [amazon.com]
An official Nintendo-branded model would probably be a more solid option, though. Still, AA rechargeables aren't really a big deal, especially when they last 30-60 hours. Some rechargeables even last longer than traditional batteries, I think, and they're often cheaper than the battery packs.
Re:AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:2, Insightful)
Are YOU kidding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you serious?!?!
Look, here's the options you typically have with batteries in consumer products:
1. Batteries are not user accessible. When batteries lose their ability to hold a charge, you replace the wiimote. Cost to you: $60
2. Proprietary rechargables. Really just AAs or AAAs, but inside a special case so that you have to buy them from the manufacturer. Cost to you: $35
3. User replaceable batteries of a standard size. You buy your own NiMhs. Cost to you: $6.99
You're COMPLAINING about this?
Re:Are YOU kidding? (Score:2)
You also skipped over the length of time between replacements. Depending on the battery and your individual tolerance for diminishing battery life, Li-Ion batteries can end
Re:AA Batteries? Are they kidding? (Score:2, Insightful)
Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:5, Informative)
I read this the other day. Most of it was known before. That said, the IGN writer needs a clue.
I wonder what the memory will be for. I can't think of any uses, unless it is used for calibration in which case it doesn't matter that much. That said, using non-volatile memory (which did not need to be in quotes, and is probably flash) to store sound clips seems rather pointless and a waste of limited write cycles.
But wait, there's more!
I'M ruling it out. That's like saying a mouse with a ball and a 200 PPI resolution could be used as a scanner. To put a live mega-pixel video sensor on the front of the Wiimote just to analyze every image to figure out which way the thing was pointing would be one of the most expensive, slow, battery draining, and stupid ways to accomplish that goal imaginable.
We'll find out more during Tokyo Game Show on Sept 22nd. In the mean time, if you are going to speculate in an article about something, get some kind of engineer to take a glance at your article first so you don't look too wrong.
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:5, Insightful)
"X-Box had a 780 MHz Celeron but Wii's processor is only 745 MHz so that means that Wii won't support bump mapping! OMFG!"
Maybe that quote is paraphrased, but it's pretty damn close to an IGN article I read about a month ago that made it onto Slashdot. IGN should either hire some editors or be destroyed.
It's probably EEPROM as well rather than flash. (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought about that for a second but I ruled it out. What is the point of putting that on the controller? Unless your controller becomes your controller that you take to a friends house that keeps a tiny bit of data on you (favorite color, birthday, name) so when you start playing it's already configured for you. I wouldn't think enough games would have similar enough controls for that to work. When they do (such as the trigger in an FPS) then the configuration is obvious (are you going to change the fire button from the trigger to a button at the bottom of the controller you can't reach?)
On a PC you have a TON of keys to bind. On the Wiimote, you have 9 (if you include the four D-pad directions).
I don't see the point of storing that on the controller. After all, the system is supposed to have built in flash storage of some size (I don't remember) and you could store that data there. That would make more sense than storing it on the controller.
And on the storing sounds font, just how much of a sound could you possibly fit in 6kb anyway? Standard WAVs are 10MB per minute. If you make that mono, it's 5MB a minute. Cut the sample rate in 4 (to 11khz) and that would give you 1.25MB a minute. Go to 8 bit instead of 16 and things are sounding terrible, but you're at ~600kb per minute. So you could fit 1/100th of a minute of audio in that space. Even if you compress it 5:1 you only get 3 seconds.
And if you are going to use that memory for sounds in-game, why does it need to be non-volatile anyway? Would it really be that hard to download the sound to the controller again the next time they turn on the game?
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:3, Informative)
This *is* something Nintendo is shooting for (the personalized controllers)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Also, given online capabilities, it should be possible for the console to store a person's profile online in an xb.live style, and have the wiimote act as the personal key to that ac
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:3, Insightful)
With the wii, you're probably going to need someway of calibrating the remote to a persons style. Do they make large movements or small precise ones? What's their resting height, etc.?
Also, with the Wii Sports demonstration it looks like players might have the option of creating a custom avatar for their in game persona. This could be stored on the remote, instead of a memory card (especially if it's a
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
That is exactly what Nintendo has announced, and it's exactly what it is for.
They expect every user to have his own controller, with some personal data stored on it.
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Bad idea (Score:2)
Re:Bad idea (Score:2)
IF user online info was stored on the controller (which, of course, is speculation at this point), that wouldn't make online a "requirement" at all. That's like saying that because I could store my Xbox Live account info on my Xbox hard drive, Xbox Live becomes some sort of requirement (or the same for a PS2 or Dreamcast memory card).
You're trying way too hard to take a shot at the Wii.
Re:Bad idea (Score:2)
Woh, woh, woh!
Taking a shot at the Wii? WTF? I LOVE the Wii! I'm going to be there at 3am on launch day if I have to, to get one. I was not in any way, shape or form, trying to "take a shot at it", so settle down, please. I was speculating on the Wiimote being used to store a user profile, which has NOTHING to do with online use, what-so-ever. I would LOVE to have a user-profile saving ability on my console, in a way that I could save common preferences: default controller settings, sensitivity settings f
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
6 KB is enough for your name, a very simple picture (maybe similar to the Mario Kart DS emblem), your favourite color and maybe some key preferences. This will most certainly not be connected to the online system. It may be connected to a Wii, and if it is, going to a friend's would be out, but personally I think 6KB is enough to store the most important data.
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:3, Informative)
Well, ironically the example you gave of the mouse has actually been done. It was on Slashdot a few months ago where this guy rewired his mouse to act as a scanner/digital camera. Pretty cool IMO : ). You could atleast take low-res images. And if it's actually seeing megapixel, that's pretty good.
This is the slashdot story: Turn an Optical Mouse into a Scanner [slashdot.org]Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2, Informative)
The "sensor bar" has a few IR LEDs on each side that the Wii-mote sensor can see. The Wii-mote is able to read two positions from these LEDs and determine their positions in a 1024x768 area.
The company that provides the sensor technology also makes sensors for optical mice. Those sensors "analyze every image to figure out which way the thing was pointing". And optical mice can last a lot longer than 60 hours on two AAs while providing their
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
However, the two LEDs only work really well in a single dimension. It can be guessed at if you assume the player doesn
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Moving the controller to the left will have the same effect as rotating it to the left. Moving the controller upwards will have the same effect as rotating it upwards. Pulling it back will look the same as moving the controller so it looks at the sensor bar from a side.
If you don't move around too much, the controller should give you three pieces of info: The position of the LEDs in the sens
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Also Nintendo has historically not shown up at the
Mouse as scanner? Ridiculous! (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
well, it can [utwente.nl]
Re:Uh... Need A Clue? (Score:2)
The internal memory in the remote is likely going to make it YOUR remote. It would store a user name/handle, the orientation you use for first-person games (inverted, etc.), and some other basi
Bounds of the TV (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps there will be a calibration on setting the system up... but they have to expect either the TV or the sensor to be moved occasionally. Any manual calibration can be expected to suffer from accuracy problems, I'd expect - especially if game makers somehow assume a screen aspect ratio when making their games. Games with relativistic controls wouldn't be so bad... but anything with precision involved would start to feel sloppy when anything changed.
I hope the relationship between screen and controller are more dynamic and automatic than just sensing the remote. Regardless, I imagine I can quickly get used to whatever it is, and the game makers will compensate as needed - I'd just like it to be as close to a precise 3-d mouse as possible without having to wave the controller too out of proportion to the actual screen.
Ryan Fenton
Re:Bounds of the TV (Score:2)
Re:Bounds of the TV (Score:2)
Re:Bounds of the TV (Score:2)
Re:Bounds of the TV (Score:5, Interesting)
Ha, something I have a little experience with...
first let's take old NES era light gun games, pull the trigger, the screen flashes white. some of the older arcade shooters use something similar, but can get away with much shorter flashes and the gun interprets that. Now the more modern ones, mostly SEGA ones where I work have a series of IR LEDs located at the edges of the screen (5 top 5 bottom usually) that are strobed in series. I'm pretty sure it measures the intensity of each LED to determine the position of the gun, and covering even one will make it think it's pointing off screen (a common problem in cold weather when people just thrown their coats on top of the game when they play it) I'm assuming the sensor bar they keep talking about will function slightly similarly to the later. You will probably want to calibrate it anytime you drastically change the relative distance from the TV because it starts to make a difference when you double the distance [i.e standing 5 feet away, or sitting 10 away on the couch with your buddies playing Mario Part-wii]
Re:Bounds of the TV (Score:2)
It has nothing to do with the TV, and everything to do with the sensor bar. When you point at the TV you're actually pointing at the sensor bar and any movement you do is then translated to movement on screen.
You can think of it just like a mouse
How about enlisting older tech for calibration... (Score:2)
Re:How about enlisting older tech for calibration. (Score:2)
Re:How about enlisting older tech for calibration. (Score:2)
Then why all this stuff about it being like an "eye" and being able to scan the television set? From what it sounds like, the bar on the top of TV simply acts as a relitave locator, to detect it's motion and position, but that the "eye" on the front of it scans it's field of vision, ie: the TV. The difference I'm proposing is NOT a flash, like with a light gun, but a constant picture (which would work fine on any type of TV).
I think people, including myself, are still confused on what this thing actually
Don't believe the camera bit. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't believe the camera bit. (Score:2, Interesting)
-
http://sprite.student.utwente.nl/~jeroen/projects
Ok so it's not a camera, but it's cool anyway.
Once it's out it's out (Score:2, Insightful)
Until then, you can go back to bashing the PS3 as usual.
Re:Once it's out it's out (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop spreading FUD.
Re:Once it's out it's out (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Once it's out it's out (Score:4, Insightful)
And btw...you won't be "waveing" the controler around for the most part. Most of the stuff at E3 was very point & click driven. The swining the controler around was mostly done with the party & sports style games. Feels quite natural to me.
Re:Once it's out it's out (Score:4, Insightful)
Not a Camera (Score:4, Informative)
"Interestingly, according to documentation the Wii-mote is able to act as something of an eye, measuring coordinates between 0-1023 on the X axis and 0-767 on the Y axis, which means that it is more or less seeing a megapixel image. Whether or not this data can be interpreted into visual information remains unknown, but we're not ruling out the possibility that the pointer could sub as a camera."
It's not a cameara. The res of HD is 1024x768, so of course the Wii-mote is going to measure coordinates of the same size. All this is saying is that the Wii-mote has per-pixel accuracy. Saying it may be a camera is one of the biggest stretches I've ever seen.
Re:Not a Camera (Score:2)
1024x768 is not a standard "HD" resolution. HD is typically 1920x1080 (e.g. 1080i), which you'll note is a 16x9 widescreen ratio rather than 1024x768's 4x3 standard ratio. The other standard HD resolution, 1280x720 (e.g. 720p), also has more pixels than 1024x768. So, the Wiimote's sensing is not per-pixel accurate in HD... however, the Wii is not outputting an HD signal anyway. I believe the SD signal
Re:No rechargable batteries? (Score:4, Insightful)
And you can buy rechargeable AA batteries. I bought 6AA+4AAA+Recharger for 14.99 at Costco and the batteries last a crazy long time. 4-5x longer on one charge than alkaline batteries, by my estimates (Because of this, I only buy rechargeables now, make sure they have a high mAH and are NiMH).
OTOH, all my Lithion based batteries in my Sony (purchased before they turned into total scum) cameras cost >$60-120 to replace and reliably die after 2-3 years. I don't know how fast NiMH dies (it's life must be at least as long at Li), but at least I can replace them cheap.
Re:No rechargable batteries? (Score:2)
Re:No rechargable batteries? (Score:2)
Re:No rechargable batteries? (Score:2)
Rechargable in device? (Score:2)
Re:No rechargable batteries? (Score:2)
AA is an OPEN standard! (Score:3, Insightful)
Buy whatever AA you want.
in 5 years buy some super capacitor AA...(joke)
Re:No rechargable batteries? (Score:2)
Probably because the controller uses less power than the DS with its two screens.
They used AAs for the Wavebird, too. Works well for me, I got a bunch of rechargeable AAs already and can just switch them out if the Wavebird runs on empty.
Re:6kb (Score:2, Interesting)
You could just choose to leave your wii on only if you plan to use this feature too, so no bitching about power usage (the net-connected standby has highly reduced power usage also)