Microsoft's Handheld Codenamed Argo 101
The Seattle Times reports that details on Microsoft's handheld gaming/music device are finally slipping out. The Argo project looks to be Microsoft's hedge against angry analysts, upset that the next versions of Office and Windows have slipped yet again. From the article: "As reported last week, initially by Bloomberg News, the device is expected to go on sale by Christmas. It has Wi-Fi capability so it can connect wirelessly to home and public networks and other players. Wi-Fi sounds like a big deal if you're comparing the player to the wire-bound iPod. But this is more than just another MP3 player. It will also compete with game players from Sony and Nintendo that have long had Wi-Fi and work as media players, Internet terminals and communication devices. Argo is likely to showcase another Allard project — XNA, a new toolkit that helps game developers create titles for multiple platforms."
Umm... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Umm... (Score:2, Insightful)
If this is what is being described, it is going against what the Ipod & PSP SHOULD be now, rather then what they are. Right now the Ipod is for music. The PSP does everything, but nothing good. What the market wants (and don't know it) is true convergence, the one device to unite them all...the OS of the pocket.
It's hard to be humble, but I have to hand it to myself in a post from May 28th....
Apple should be in handheld gaming. They should be shooting for the inevitable, a true convergence
Re:Umm... (Score:2)
I don't want my iPod to do anything but play music. It's great for it.
My PSP is very fun for playing Katamari & GTA, and also plays my Doctor Who videos in wide-screen mode when I'm away from home. Nothing against the DS Lite, which a great little game box, but I'm very happy with the PSP so far.
Pardon me for not having much faith in Microsoft to come up with something that does any of those tasks better.
My eyes deceive me... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My eyes deceive me... (Score:1)
I'm calling it a Fry's Killer.
Re:My eyes deceive me... (Score:2)
Not at all. Haven't you noticed that calling something an "iPod Killer" is the kiss of death?
I know if I were a portable device maker the last thing I'd want the media to do is decide my device is an "iPod Killer". I'd rather let the consumers decide that by making a device that appeal to them (you know, like the iPod itself).
Yaz.
Re:My eyes deceive me... (Score:2)
every FPS that came out after Halo was dubbed the "Halo Killer" and not one of them worked.
Every MP3 player that came out after the iPod was dubbed an "iPod killer" they never managed to put a dent in it.
it never fails, whenever there is something big people will associate The Next Big Thing from a Big Company as the killer of the competing product.
I doubt this will hurt sales of the iPod or PSP in any way, The main point is that you know it is g
Here you go: (Score:1)
(Redmond, WA) Today amid thunderous applause, Microsoft's CEO Steven Balmer has unveiled the 'bigger, better, stronger,' next-generation PDA/mediaplayer nicknamed Argo, designed from the ground-up to address customer needs and built upon numerous shortcoming of its rival iPod.
Argo features a consumer-replacable 400 VAC lead acid battery, not only cheap to replace, but also ultra-portable at 10 lb.
Living up to its reputation for building sold, reliable hardware, Mic
Re:My eyes deceive me... (Score:1)
You misspelled "chairs are going to fly."
Re:My eyes deceive me... (Score:2)
Re:My eyes deceive me... (Score:1)
AirTunes (Score:4, Insightful)
Not exactly the same result, but AirTunes [apple.com] provides something most of us simply want...
Re:AirTunes (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:AirTunes (Score:1)
Huh. You can do exactly that with your Mac, your Bluetooth phone, and Salling Clicker. The music streams from your Mac, not your phone, but Clicker's iTunes interface works just the way you'd expect an iPod to work with buttons replacing the
Re:AirTunes (Score:3, Interesting)
I have an iPod and, except for the anemic battery life, love it. I just don't see the point in adding wireless capabilities to it.
I have a PocketPC, and I at one time wanted to use it to control whatever computer I had which was acting as my music server. To me that makes perfect sense and the connectivity already exists, etc. The probl
Re:AirTunes (Score:1)
Re:AirTunes (Score:4, Insightful)
The one advantage I can see to wifi is the ability to buy and download music directly to the device. But how do you do that? How does the interface work? How do you pay for songs, etc? It's a simple problem to solve on a computer with a keyboard, etc, but on a compact device, it's really difficult.
Frankly I think Microsoft's product is going to be a dud because it'll be too complicated.
Re:AirTunes (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, music and video, that's it.
And text files. It shows text files. But that's it.
Yeah, and that breakout game. And the parachute game. But really, that's it. Music, video, notes, games... that's it.
Oh right, the photos thing. It does photos too. Music, video, notes, games, photos... really, I think that's it.
No wait, I forgot about the address book. Everybody forgets that one! Music, video, notes, games, photos, address book... is that it?
Hey, its got a clock too! It's a world clock as well. Music, video, notes, games, photos, address book, world clock... anything else?
Damn, it's got a calendar too. Music, video, notes, games, photos, address book, world clock, calendar... surely that's it!
I mean, we all agree the iPod is "so simple". The iPod "plays music/videos and that's it" afterall!
Yeah, stupid Microsoft, they'd do something complicated like put a stopwatch in their player!
PS: I remember 12 months ago, people just like you saying that the iPod would never play video because that would be "too complicated".
Re:AirTunes (Score:4, Insightful)
news? (Score:1)
I'm not trying to be negative, but a codename and speculation of something that was already speculation is hohum to me.
Re:news? (Score:2, Informative)
Ergo (Score:1)
conj.
Consequently; therefore.
adv.
Consequently; hence.
Someone else is doing well, therefore, Microsoft wants a piece of the action. They had their way in other markets in the past, e.g. server operating systems and web-browsers but they haven't done so well recently, e.g. virtualisation and DRM-locked music players.
Competition is supposed to stimulate markets but Microsoft's heavy hand tends to stifle the market.
They really tried (Score:2)
semi-on-topic (Score:2)
MS seems to have lots of announcements of future products, and even "launches", but I rarely actually see anything from them in real life.
Re:semi-on-topic (Score:1)
So, for $1,100 you can have a slow, short battery life, and expensive laptop PC. Or for $600 [dell.com], you can give up the touch screen, get a faster CPU, faster hard drive and a bigger, higher resolution screen an
Re:semi-on-topic (Score:2)
While games available for a handheld system and technical specs are of great importance, I think battery life is the reason why certain systems outsell others.
Re:semi-on-topic (Score:5, Funny)
Origami? (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone?
Exactly, not much at all. I'm rather skeptical at this point to be honest. The only hardware that has an MS-badge on that I've found to be any good has normally been developed elsewhere and brought in and rebadged.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Origami? (Score:2)
From the hype on CNet:
"Microsoft's goal is to create a blueprint for devices that could sell for $600 or less, although the actual prices will depend greatly on what manufacturers decide to include. Origami is capable of supporting features like GPS, Bluetooth, 3G cellular technology and Wi-Fi, though each of these adds to the cost of the device."
That instantly transformed into "GPS, Bluetooth, Cellphones, and WiFi for $600!
Brilliant! (Score:5, Funny)
Name your latest high tech gadget for a bronze age pirate ship crewed by illiterate drunks and thieves trying to stay one step ahead of that mad bitch Medea. Brilliant!
Re:Brilliant! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:1)
The guy who makes up the names is on vacation. [wikipedia.org]
</obFamilyGuy>
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
(thinking of the alternatie definition of fleece)
Like other products... (Score:1, Insightful)
Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS (Score:3)
The PSP was a great idea but the Memory Stick Duo and UMD options really killed alot of its potential IMHO. The device had already been out a year before MSD 's of any size significant enough for music or video were affordable. Without the ability to output to a bigger screen, UMD was DOA, after all who the heck wants to rebuy their movies on a format that only works on a dinky little portable screen. The sad part is that if the UMD format had been opened up allowing the option of homeplayers and such the format could have really taken off.
The IPod while a great device is at the Mercy of whatever bone Job's feels like throwing at the users. I love apples design and innovation but the tempermental artist who thinks he knows what you need better than you know what you want act is really getting old.
A fairly generic handheld with a decent screen, standard memory format and decent capabilities would surely be welcomed by those who dont really need a full fledged pda but want something more than a game player.
Re:Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS (Score:3, Insightful)
sure, sometimes when I see a new podcast in iTunes I'd like to just have it on my 5G wirelessly. but thinking about it, would that mean my ipod would always have to have wifi turned on? would the ipod itself have to be turned on? and I'd still have to plug it in for large syncs, use as an external hard drive and of course charging.
I think that if instead of every little sync adding to my battery life it actually took some away, then battery life would become an issue which
Re:Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS (Score:2)
Re:Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS (Score:3, Insightful)
Then you look at devices that aren't doing that well. The PSP has some sweet specs, but (as you mention) it has some issues. The DS getting twice the battery life (or more) probably doesn't
Re:Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But is it a gaming machine? (Score:4, Funny)
Nintendo does well in the hand-held market because they've spent almost 20 years learning what people want in a hand held device, as well as offering a large selection of software that is fun and speaks to a wide spectrum of people, not just your 14-24 male crowd.
Sony has been able to break into the handheld market (where many others have failed) because they have the brand name recognition, as well as ports for a lot of popular franchises, not to mention the nice movie viewing capability. (However, even Sony is beginning to sink, as the number of people speaking against the constant remakes are beginning to grow, and UMD movies have all but sunk.)
So Microsoft, which barely edged Nintendo out for second place in America, and is in third place in Japan by a far gap (even despite being the first "next-gen" system there), thinks that they can break into the handheld market with what sounds like another version of their "Origami" project, but geared more towards games? I would put down safe money that it sinks faster than the Game Gear. The idea of it being an XBox brand makes me think that the device will be bigger than the PSP, too.
"My, that backpack looks heavy. What do you have in there?"
"My eXtreme-Box portable gaming system."
"And what else?"
"Uh, that's it."
Of course, no one would try to steal it, since the device would be useful as a bludguning instrument, as well. "Looks like the perp left a mark on his victim. What exactly is that?" "Looks like some sort of big X."
Re:But is it a gaming machine? (Score:2)
This thing can't fail! (Score:2)
If we're lucky, the marketing department will know exactly how to package [google.com] and advertise this product so we all know to buy one. Maybe it'll even jump off the shelves at us. Literally!
Has to be said... (Score:4, Funny)
Not good enough (Score:2)
Mod +5 Funny (Score:1)
Finally, a well named Microsoft UI (Score:2)
Yes, I realize I misread it but, with any problems at all, you know that's the name that'll stick.
OT: What's this Related Stories crap? (Score:1, Offtopic)
Size (Score:2)
Now consider a device that combines most of the functions of these, as the article suggests: music player, video/picture playback, wireless internet capability, game-playing capability, all with a crisp color screen and XX hours battery life.
Re:Size (Score:2)
One of the key things in the iPod's early (and sustained) success has been its small form factor.
I would say partly true. The Rio and Creative players were just as small if not smaller. It is a neccesity of MP3 players in general that they be small. What set the iPod apart was ease of use. Later it was integration with iTunesMS.
So, fellow Hobbits... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So, fellow Hobbits... (Score:1)
I hope not -- I don't want to have to chase down creepy Gollum if he comes and steals it from me.
Of course, while he's stroking it and hissing "precious," I can probably just go buy another one.
But MS is making DS games! (Score:2, Interesting)
MechAssualt DS [ign.com] - based on the Xbox games
Diddy Kong Racing DS [kotaku.com](a port from the N64, via MS-owned Rare)
To make money? (Score:2)
Re:But MS is making DS games! (Score:2)
Just works (Score:2)
Re:Just works (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What I want to know (Score:2)
Re:What I want to know (Score:2)
Ho humm (Score:3, Insightful)
What's the market? (Score:1)
Re:What's the market? (Score:1)
I think it's unlikely they'd make a portable Xbox and not go really full bore with it. This sounds more like when their new table
This will give Apple some idea's for ... (Score:3, Interesting)
As we all recall (or perhaps you have forgotten about - it was launched in October 2001 , the first version of the iPod has had its share of problems. The iPod is not at its fifth generation and has lots of features that Microsoft can either dream of at their first incarnation or implement badly.
In addition to that, there will be features that Microsoft will not implement.
- support for Apple? No way
- Calender integration with Mozilla Sunbird? No way
etc.
Plus - they need to cut deals with the record companies; Apple has already done this.
Furthermore, there are currently more than 50 million iPods on the planet. Not to count the millions of other players. So it is a very hard market to get into.
* Wireless would be nice - when it is working correctly, and noone can connect to my iPod/Argo to snoop my data.
* Games? I don't know, this would probably drain the battery life, so not for me...
And, if this is typical Microsoft quality software (and I'm not talking virii here, although this is a possibility), you probably need to restart the thingy on a daily basis (I restarted my iPod twice in one year) and there will be upgrade after upgrade.
Microsoft, you need to convince me
Mark
Sure it has Wi-Fi.. but.... (Score:2)
On a serious note, if they can tie mobile phone service into it with games, mp3's and portable storage then it just might stand a chance of really being "One gadget to in the darkness bind them"
I was worried at first, but now I'm not... (Score:4, Insightful)
When MS started talking about creating simpler infrastructure, and more ellegent solutions, I got a little worried that maybe they were really in the right headspace to compete with the iPod. But now I see that those original ideals were just words, and this thing is going to be just another PSP: "It's a game device, it's a PDA, it's a video player, it's a music player, WOW!" You'd think that MS would have learned its lesson from Sony on this one, but it seems like they haven't. Their decision to make a handheld gaming system will be their biggest downfall, now they're not only competing with Apple (and Yahoo, and Creative Labs, and iRiver), but with Nintendo and Sony as well. At this point, if you manage to piss off Nintendo and Apple in the same punch, you're likely to just strengthen their unspoken alliance to the point of them officially joining forces against you, and I wouldn't want to be on the other side of that battle.
What's so difficult to understand? The two most successfull handheld entertainment devices, in their respective fields, are the iPod and the Nintendo DS. Both of these devices succeded because they were aimed at only one market, were designed to do one thing, and they did it extremely well. And because of it, they slaughtered every other competative device that tried to throw in the kitchen sink. Meanwhile, the PSP, N-Gage, and all those other little "3 in 1" type gadgets are foundering.
The first thing this device is going to kill (if anything at all), is all the iPod's competitors, which are trying to do exactly the same thing as MS is here. The irony is that these are MSs biggest allies, many of them use WMA as their primary file type, and thus have contracts with MS worked out. But there's no way that MS is going to be able to compete with the iPod, head-to-head from the get-go, these other devices stand like a helpless rank of unarmed soldiers standing just in front of the huge army that is the iPod.
Apple-Nintendo Alliance?! (Score:2)
"Unspoken alliance"? What does this mean, exactly? I'm not remotely aware of any such thing. Have their execs, or even their employees, ever met? And if they did, did they like wink at each other, or did they sign a memo of understanding or something
Re:Apple-Nintendo Alliance?! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Apple-Nintendo Alliance?! (Score:2)
Re:Apple-Nintendo Alliance?! (Score:2)
Re:Apple-Nintendo Alliance?! (Score:1)
Nintendo's president, Mr. Iwata, delivered his last three keynotes standing behind his PowerBook/MacBook. Iwata quoted Steve Jobs at
Re:I was worried at first, but now I'm not... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I was worried at first, but now I'm not... (Score:2)
Ever used a universal remote? They're a pain in the ass. Well, normal remotes are a pain in the ass too, but remotes that try to tie ALL functionality together are some of the most difficult UI devices ever invented. Now, there's the added fact that they're 3rd party devices, having to account for controlling all sorts of different devices. Even so, the fact remains that the TV remote was designed to be simple and quick to use, so you didn't have to get up from your chair to change the channel, adjust volum
Re:I was worried at first, but now I'm not... (Score:2)
Re:I was worried at first, but now I'm not... (Score:2)
So if it flops... (Score:2)
Missing the point? (Score:5, Informative)
1) Unlike Origami, MS is actually making the hardware and software here. They are not bound to the hands of a lot of crappy Consumer Electronics device makers and PC OEMs that historically make ugly hardware (and huge hardware)
2) This is coming out of the team that made the Xbox and the Xbox360. They have proven that they can write lean/mean software that just works and has pretty and good UI
3) This device is not (currently) a video game player. As pointed out above, MS is still obviously making games for the DS, and no respectable news site has stated that it plays games, just that it might at some mysterious point in the future.
4) The leaked pictures show a fairly small device with a small attenna on the top. It has some blurry UI that doesn't look like Portable Media Center software, which implies that they wrote something specially for the device to go head to head with the iPod
5) Its not just a device, but also appears to include an iTMS competitor. In light of this, it looks like they aren't going to use the horrid "Play for Sure" crap. Instead, they are doing what needs to be done. Make something that actually just works well together. Not something they somehow make work together (like WMP in general with media devices)
6) MS already has relationships with most record labels due to the old MSN music store. They also have relationships with most movie studios due to the VC-1 codec that is in both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
All in all, it sounds like MS did look at the market and realized that they had to make something that is small, is focused at just media (audio and video, no games). They also appear to be trying to innovate ever so lightly by adding WiFi and a lot of the potential that brings. One need only look at what MS did with Xbox Live and the 360 to think about what can be done with a permenant Internet connection on a Consumer Electronics device. There is a lot of potential here that if they live up to, could mean the next step in Portable Media Devices.
Worst case, MS shows what not to do with things like WiFi, then Apple comes out with the iPod WiFi and does it right.
Either way, it only benefits us, the consumer.
OH wow!! (Score:1)
SRSLY, PPL. Your laptop is bigger than your Nintendo DS is bigger than your PDA is bigger than your cellphone is bigger than your iPod Nano for a good reason: Each is at the minimum allowable size for which user input and output is still efficient. Creating a product with featuritis right out of the gate is not going to magically overcome this I/O hurdle. At best, it's going to sell to a frustra
A neat feature (Score:2)
Re:A neat feature (Score:2)
A music player? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A music player? (Score:2)
BS article (Score:2)
I'll wait for real info, thanks.
iPod Killer? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, I'm gonna strap that to my shoulder and take it with me when jogging.
Something the size of a PSP will never ever be competition to something the size of an iPod nano.
This could be interesting... (Score:1)