Interview Looks at How and Why Wikipedia Works 168
driehle writes to tell us that he recently had a chance to interview Angela Beesley, Elisabeth Bauer, and Kizu Naoko. All three are leading Wikipedia practitioners in the English, German, and Japanese Wikipedias and related projects. The interview focuses on how Wikipedia works and why these three practitioners believe it will keep working.
Better than Brittanica? (Score:3, Informative)
Probably Not (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Probably Not (Score:5, Insightful)
In recent times i've actually started to consider wiki as not being so bad. This is mainly because it has grown up, and is no longer the repository of knowledge of america's teenagers, as it seemed to be to start with. Its still a bit weak in some areas, and perhaps a bit too technical in others. But all in all its a pretty decent effort.
Unfortunately, its greatest strength (dynamic content) is also the reason it cannot be used as a definitive academic resource. In essence, the content that a student or researcher references is not necessarily the content that someone down the line is going to read. So if i reference a synthesis technique or method thats on wiki, someone who tries to duplicate my work might not be following the same recipe that i did. Reproducability is the keystone of research (even incorrect methods/results must be referenceable), and so university people get understandably annoyed by wiki references. Its a great resource, but for academics it can only ever be an interface to static content from somewhere else.
Re:Probably Not (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Probably Not (Score:5, Insightful)
Having a brain turned on isn't going to help you if you don't already have the data to judge that stuff as true or false. You can be the most logical person in the world, and still lack the data on which to use that logic.
E.g., if you're not a historian and I start telling you about the achievements and pyramid of the great pharaohs Tutankhbast and Bastmeses... how do you know if they even existed? Or maybe it's just me pulling your leg and telling you what happened in my last Children Of The Nile games? You may even know enough about pharaoh names to notice that they _are_ built in the same manner as some real pharaoh names you may have already heard of. One means "Living Image Of Bast" (same as Tutankhamun = Living Image Of Amun) and one is "Born of Bast" (same as Rameses = Born of Ra). But how do you know if they actually existed or I'm pulling your leg? I'll tell you in this case that it's the later. It's the cat-loving dynasty names I've used in a computer game.
See, that's the whole problem. Sometimes having a brain and having it turned on won't help you much. You'd also have to do the research and dig up the data to judge whether the stuff on Wikipedia is believable or not. At which point, frankly, why bother with Wikipedia at all?
Re:Probably Not (Score:5, Interesting)
I generally use wiki as a reference text for something i already know, but can't completely remember. Something like the derivation of a commonly used function, or an exact date for an event etc. I wouldn't use it for more specialised "professional" information (i'm a research scientist). Basically i treat it like an encyclopedia rather than an authoritative reference text. It has value in that context, but i agree with your point that in other ways it doesn't.
Re:Probably Not (Score:2, Insightful)
2) At a regional rare-book library, you might be able to read the reports and papers of Abigail Q. Whorstenshire, who found the shrine in the 19th century and carried out the initial assays,
3) At a local university library, you can read the subsequent analysis of (2) by third parties, or even more up to date data from the site,
4) At your local city library, you can read summaries of the above
Re:Probably Not (Score:2)
The fact that is lost in many Wikipedia proponents is that, traditionally, it is a lot more expensive to put words to print and distribute it; especially in such great numbers and bulk as encyclopedic collections. Moreover, it is sometimes prohibit
Re:Probably Not (Score:2)
Because I subscribe to the believe that it does *not* work -- at least not as its being taunted: as an encyclopedia -- and that its successes are measured in very biase
Re:Probably Not (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Probably Not (Score:2)
Also, the first thing they teach you at University is that, although you can cite webpages, it will generally be frowned upon and should be avoided at all costs.
Wiki and the Web are NOT research (Score:4, Insightful)
For one thing, even with a more static webpage, you don't have any idea who wrote it. None. With Angelfire or Geocities or some other freeware webbuilding site, I could make a professional-looking webpage that proclaims that hyperdrive is physically possible. I could BS a theory based on quantum mechanics or string theory, and have a "schematic drawing" of an engine running on said principals. I could probably have a few references to Sci-fi to show it's a joke (no my name really is Cochrane). Wikipedia takes that and multiplies it times 200 -- because now it's not just some yahoo with internet access and free time, it's millions of yahoos with internet access. And if you're stupid enough to quote a webpage post-junior-high-school, frankly you deserve to flunk. Even reading one wikipedia discussion page will put you off trusting Wikipedia forever.
And quoting the enycyclopedia has never really been acceptable for serious papers. Not even Britannica. All that shows the teacher is that you're too lazy to go to the library, or even to access Lexis-Nexis to find journal articles related to your subject. Chances are that the paper in question was assigned months ago. Fine by me if you chose to screw off on the project until the week before, but quoting an encyclopedia makes it obvious that you waited til the last minute.
Long story short, the Web is probably ok for a starting point (if you have a good bullshit detector), or your topic is related to nerd popculture (redshirts from ST, Jedi fighting styles). it's not reliable enough for serious research.
Re:Wiki and the Web are NOT research (Score:2)
Only a false statement or two? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's stuff like that that put an end once and for all to my illusions about the value of Wikipedia to actually learn anything.
Re:Only a false statement or two? (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine you had heard about those cloned didgeridoos not from Wikipedia, but rather from a friend or a family member or someone else you trusted. Would you believe it?
Of course not. You have (I assume) the basic common sense to identify patent nonsense, and can do so whether the source is trusted or not.
Or suppose you actually believe the story of baby didgeridoos because, after all, it was in an e-mail from your father. Then you find out later that it was a big joke. Do you stop trusting your father forever after that?
Of course not. You have the the basic common sense to identify earnest, essentially true information.
Certainly, there are areas in Wikipedia where the factual information can be incorrect, as shown in the Siegenthaler article controversy last year. But then that level of misinformation is probably no greater than that of the internet in general, the news media, or your friends and family.
Re:Only a false statement or two? (Score:3, Insightful)
And see my other post again: you can only judge something as a blatant joke or not, if you have the data on which to base that judgment. Didgeridoos are easy, but are you sure you'd immediately spot the joke if it were about history or quantum physics? I'm sure I could come up with a joke involving ancient Egypt or China or Messopotamia that wouldn't look like a joke to anyone who's
Re:Only a false statement or two? (Score:2)
It doesn't say very much when the subject is that obscure, though. The article probably survived just because nobody saw it. There would have been rapid correction to any edit that said that Linus Torvalds is a cloned didgeridoo.
Re:Only a false statement or two? (Score:2)
No, he's rejecting Wikipedia as an institution. Not everything in it. Can you notice the distinction?
Re:Only a false statement or two? (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not familiar with this particular article, but dubious articles that survive for a long time generally do so because they are nearly unused: they get little traffic and aren't linked from anywhere. Wikipedia article quality is usually a function of eyeballs, so you can take comfort that few people see a bad article, even if it's up for a while.
But if you're going to rule out a source because there's an obvious joke in it, you may have to cut your media diet subst
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
How to use Wikipedia for school\uni research (Score:2)
But that doesn't mean the wikipedia can't be used for school\university research. Wikipedia articles are usually very link rich. Explore these links for more information and hints for "proper" references ("propper" as in what you teacher\prof thinks is propper).
Wikipedia can also give you some information about related subjects, these can often also b
Re:How to use Wikipedia for school\uni research (Score:3, Interesting)
Link rich...great phrase! And that is exactly what
Some of the most intense differences of opinion on/. are often armed with links from multiple disciplines, multiple countries, radically different perspectives based on everything from technique to culture.
Follow the links, RTFA's and cull, cull, cull! That is research and has taught me more then any prepa
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
Either your professors are idiots or you've misinterpreted them. There's nothing wrong with using Wikipedia. There is, however, a lot wrong with citing Wikipedia or not checking your facts with primary sources.
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
You will find this perspective outside your university in real life as well, so long as you don't spend too much of your real life on slashdot, where the opinions on wikipedia are rather skewed.
Lookit, no denying, it's a great place to start a query on a topic, and if you're looking to get up-to-date info on compression codecs or an overview of season five for "Buffy the Va
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:3, Interesting)
For many things a traditional encyclopedia is useless even as a first search, because it quite simply has no entry at all.
Wikipedia is most commonly used when you hear something, and want a quick ivdea what that's all about. You won't find out what RFC1777 is in Britannica, infa
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
So an article that is inaccurate, false or misleading is better than no article at all? Jeebus. Get out from under that rock and smell the clean air.
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
If you see some reference to, say Draupnir, and have no idea what or who that may be, then an article telling you that it's an arm-ring worn by Odin the norse God, forged by Brokk and Eitri and originally set of a gift-triple consisting of this, Mjollnir and Gullinbursti.
Now, it migth be it was actually worn by Loke, that Brokk had no part in the forging and that Eitri made it alone. Nevertheless you'd now connect this to norse my
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nature of Authority (Score:2)
Even science is prone to be wrong and really wrong. My History/Anthopology Professor (a Dr.) railed against the establishment because of all the politics he sees done in archaeology where they leave out evidence that doesn't conform to the theories currently in vogue and if you try to publish an article that really goes against the establishment, good luck finding a reputable publisher.
There is no "ONE" authority.
Wiki is so good because, previously, when
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2, Informative)
I know at my university, professors frown on (and sometimes penalize) the use of any encyclopedia or other tertiary source because of its less-than-scholarly nature.
Seriously, the reason that Wikipedia should not be used in your college-level paper is the same reason Brittanica shouldn't: it just isn't scholarly to glean reference material from a multitude of referenc
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
Another reason that it should never be used in a research paper is that the author can simply write whatever he wants and include it. Even if it is edited again later, the writer can still cite the time that it really did say what he quoted and use it.
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
I also recall that professors would usually penalize the citation of any encyclopedia in a paper for the same reason. An encyclopedia is not a primary or authoritative source. Encyclopedias are just a way to get up to speed on a particular subject quickly and in one place. The day that any encyclopedias be it wikipedia or britannica are accepted as proper references in a
Re:Better than Brittanica? (Score:2)
When I was in college, my professors would frown on citing any encyclopedia. Encyclopedias, in general, aren't authoritative. They provide a good summary of a topic, and perhaps a good place to get general information, but if you're using them as your main sources on a research paper, you haven't done any real research. For this purpose, Wikipedia is usually better than
I believe I speak for everyone when I say (Score:4, Funny)
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 [penny-arcade.com]
Or at least, this is the only way to explain the sheer amount of article defacement and trolling. People + anonymity = total asshats.
Re:I believe I speak for everyone when I say (Score:5, Funny)
Posted by: Anonymous Coward
Re:I believe I speak for everyone when I say (Score:2)
...on a forum for nerds that is periodically overrun by total asshats.
Re:I believe I speak for everyone when I say (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, within the limited confines of the
Re:I believe I speak for everyone when I say (Score:2)
Convenience (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Convenience (Score:2)
The problem lies in the fact that too many people think that Wikipedia is fact based when it is often mearly one persons opinion of something. I wish there could be a fact or fiction tag that clarified which claims are verified and which are not.
Re:Convenience (Score:4, Informative)
That is what Template:Fact [wikipedia.org] is for. If you see an article that claims something that isn't backed up by a citation to an authorative source, hit it with that, and "[citation needed]" appears, and the article is listed in the "Articles with unsourced statements" category [wikipedia.org]. You can read more about this at Wikipedia:Citing sources [wikipedia.org].
Re:Convenience (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, I forgot to mention Wikipedia:WikiProject Fact and Reference Check [wikipedia.org].
Re:Convenience (Score:2)
Well, the underlying Wikipedia philsophy is that "Any information is better than no information. (Look how many articles we have!!!)" This runs counter to the normal academic method where only substantiated information is allowed. Until Wikipedia normalizes their approach and starts actively removing uncited content (even if it 'seems ri
Re:Encyclopedias (Score:5, Informative)
One thing that I've found to be somewhat helpful in evaluating Wikipedia entries is the discussion page. Often, the discussion there gives hints as to the strengths, weaknesses, and biases in the article. I'm really glad that it's there and is visible. I wish they'd improve the threading of the discussions to make it easier to read, but it's still quite helpful.
Re:Encyclopedias (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Encyclopedias (Score:2)
Re:Convenience (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Convenience (Score:2)
Re:Convenience (Score:2)
In general people prefer resources which are easily accessible.
In general people prefer resources that reinforce what they already believe is true.
In general people will believe things which enhance their own self-image.
Wiki*'s are demographically unique resources which accomplish the above. Thats why they succeed. The German wikipedia isn't just a translation, its a whole different Flavor
A professional historian would read wiki citat
Commons (Score:5, Interesting)
Wikipedia is of course an excellent resource. However I'd wish that people would also have an eye for Wikimedia Commons [wikimedia.org], a giant multimedia library to which everyone can upload files, all perfectly categorized. More importantly, every file that's in there can be linked to by Wikipedia.
From the help page:
The Wikimedia Commons (or "Commons") is a repository of free images, sound and other multimedia files. Uploaded files can be used as local files by other projects on the Wikimedia servers, including Wikibooks, Wikinews, Wikipedia, Wikisource and Wiktionary.
Re:Commons (Score:2)
What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm willing to bet that at some point we'll see more and more incorect information, as the system struggles with being crushed under its own weight.
The sheer number of roles is daunting.
And further on in the interview, I read "there is increasingly a distinction between 'normal' authors and 'high-end' authors who are explicitly trying to get their articles 'featured'."
I don't know... that statement right there speaks volumes as to how unbiased a system Wikipedia can really be.
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:3, Informative)
(1) The distinction isn't clear cut. There are some people who write mostly or exclusively on a small number of articles to try to get them up to featured status, there are some people who divide their time and once in a great while might try to get something featured, and there are people who have never been to the featured article candidates page. (Full disclosure - I'm the person who oversees the whole system); and (2) The distinction is entirely self-selected. Nobody is forced
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:5, Insightful)
Wikipedia doesn't put a sign up that says "we are totally unbiased". They DO put a sign up that says "we're working towards being unbiased, so we'd prefer if you don't add any edits that clearly work against that goal". Just because any work can never become totally unbiased doens't mean they shouldn't try have a goal of trying to become as unbiased as possible.
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
No college student should quote the Encyclopaedia Britannica in a scientific paper, but they quote the Wikipedia. Every blogger links routinely to wikipedia articles, because it is so easy. Wikipedia contents are the first result on Google, MSN and every other search engine. And no one puts this sign on these references.
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:3, Insightful)
The college student is screwing up. The blogger is not. The former is attempting to cite a source to back them up, but bloggers just link so that you can obtain more information. Wikipedia is perfectly suitable to give a brief overview of a subject.
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
Wikipedia is the most referenced webpage and people believe nearly everything.
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2, Insightful)
No it isn't.
No college student should quote the Encyclopaedia Britannica in a scientific paper, but they quote the Wikipedia.
So what, that's Wikipedia's fault for being free?
Every blogger links routinely to wikipedia articles, because it is so easy.
And what were they linking to before Wikipedia existed - the free online version of Encyclopedia Britannica? Of course not - it was random webpages. Which brings me to the next point:
Wikipedia
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
So what, that's Wikipedia's fault for being free?
No it is no fault, but it is one reason why wikipedia is quoted so much.
And what were they linking to before Wikipedia existed - the free online version of Encyclopedia Britannica? Of course not - it was random webpages.
Not random - they linked to some pages they found on google instead. Or they linked to no web page at all for certain expressions that are routinely linked to wikipedia now
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
I do think that your comment about the system collapsing under its own weight is valid. A great example of this is the recent Great Userbox Fiasco, where you have clearly non-encyclopedic, community-exclusive content extending far beyond its original role, incurring the ire of older admins, who then take unilateral action (speedy deletion), which in turn incurs the ire of many newer users, a good portion of whom are positive contributors to the encyclope
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2)
I also remember seeing an example where a troll was vandalising, basically, a Japanese entry with totally fals
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2, Insightful)
Wikipedia is great if you keep this in mind, in fact it might even be better that people use a less perfect sorce of info if it keeps them on their intellectual, critical toes and does not accept anything printed as "the Truth(TM)"
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:5, Interesting)
As for "being crushed under its own weight", the fact is, it's working now. It has been working well for a number of years now. That doesn't mean it will keep working indefinitely, but your prediction (correct me if I'm wrong...) doesn't seem to be based off anything in particular.
Thanks for the link. (Score:2)
Which is all well a good (considering a sizeable number of us probably agree with the content), but how often do you suppose that happens? I'm betting often. Or worse, that it will be so common in the future as to be considered
Re:Thanks for the link. (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is all well a good (considering a sizeable number of us probably agree with the content), but how often do you suppose that happens?
Isn't it good that Wikipedia openly admits when there is a POV problem, compared with "authoritative" sources which will do everything they can to deny any bias?
Or worse, that
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:5, Interesting)
"there is increasingly a distinction between 'normal' authors and 'high-end' authors who are explicitly trying to get their articles 'featured'."
Wikipedia, just like many other community sites, has some elements of a game [lostgarden.com]. This can be both a good and a bad thing. The good thing is, this sort of rewards usually encourage more people to participate in the site by creating new content. The bad thing is, more and more people will eventually come to realize that it's just a game, and start taking advantage of this -- and of other people -- in order to 'win' (on Slashdot, this could mean Karma or Friend whoring). This, I think, can seriously hinder them from reaching (or even working towards) their goal of creating an encyclopedia "of the highest possible quality". We won't see more incorrect information because of this, but we might start seeing (or not seeing) more and more behind-the-scenes fighting, which could eventually lead to many people leaving the 'game'.
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:3, Insightful)
True. However, I imagine that the people who work at Encyclopedia Britannica aren't only interested in the veracity of their work, they're also trying to do better than their coworkers so they can get the raise, or the promotion. They too, are playing a "game". Just like the folks of wikipedia.
The difference is that if that the fighting is fairly transparent on Wikipedia, whereas we'll never know about who hates who at Encyclope
Re:What I dislike about Wikipedia... (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem with most criticisms of Wikipedia is that they predict a turning point followed by catastrophe. But the things people predict will bring it down aren't novel. Wikipedia has had every problem people complain about for years now, and they're all being dealt with constantly. If anything catastrophic was going to be triggered by increasing popularity it would have happened already, before
How Wikipedia Works (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How Wikipedia Works (Score:1)
Re:How Wikipedia Works (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How Wikipedia Works (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're reliable, trustworthy, competent, and are happy to wear those hats, you will get your hats. The reward for a job well done is the offer of another three jobs, which don't affect your current job if you decline them. It's not like a company, with an upwards hierarchy. When it comes down to it, an anonIP's edits are as valid as yours, with the only difference being that you've accepted other tools to handle the misedits and issues from other users. Adminship on Wikipedia is not glorious - it's a janitor role. That's embodied in the 'you have been entrusted with the mop and bucket'. Both that and the bunches of keys you get later with other positions are your own choice, and utterly rejectable if you don't like it. Don't make out like it's a chore that was forced onto you for doing good edits.
Re:How Wikipedia Works (Score:2)
What on earth are you talking about? Just because someone declines an adminship or other position doesn't render their edits worthless. The whole point of WP is that it just looks for contribution of knowledge. If you edit anonymously or are spotted as a vandal, then your edits will be treated with suspicion, but past that an editor's 100th edit is equal to their 100,000th, ignoring better control of the syntax. It doesn't matter if som
Re:How Wikipedia Works (Score:3, Insightful)
The corollary being that once you have accepted the expansion, you keep getting handed jobs until you cannot accomplish them - a variant of the Peter Principle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle [wikipedia.org]
You have two choices - you can become cynical, underperform, and pat yourself on the back how you're getting a 'free ride' on all the other stupid patsies, or, you can simply do whatever you can and not be afraid to say "sorry, I
Why Wikipedia Works (Score:5, Insightful)
Cheers.
Why that's a bogus argument (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, and that cynicism and perception is based on the amount of damage that that small number of people can do. And they can do it precisely _because_ the rest of the people are nice and believe in being nice, so you can get away with doing a _lot_ of harm before someone gets over their niceness to stop you once and for all.
Cute, but you're massively underestimating the kind of damage someone can do if they don't give a shit about society working. At the risk of tempting Goodwin, although in this case it's an on-topic example, look at WW2 to see what destruction a small group of psychopaths can cause if they can get in a position to. (Hitler was diagnosed a psychopath during WW1. I don't know if the others were ever diagnosed, but some, e.g., Himmler, show consistent sociopathic behaviour.)
Other smaller scale examples include stuff like the gangster mobs in the 30's, employers shooting employees on strike also back then, etc. Or in the non-violent spectrum, see the scams ranging all the way to Enron and the like. Don't underestimate the extent of damage and death a few people can cause if they end up in a position where they can expect to get away with it.
In a nutshell _that_ is why we needed laws, police, punishment, etc. Because nice people are easy prey for ruthless assholes. So at one point society decided to make a set of rules and a police force and, basically, say, "Ok, these are the rules, if you refuse to live by them, we _will_ throw you in a dungeon cell."
And to return to Wikipedia, due to its very nature, it needs to deal not only with "assholes", but also with the kind of nerd who isn't "bad" as such, but has to have the last word and be perceived as "right", no matter what. There are a ton of people who aren't into destruction and defacement as such, but built their whole self-respect on being right about _everything_. If he's read somewhere that the Aztecs conquered China (probably in a parody about Civ 4), and doubly so if he's said it once, he'll devote any disproportionate amount of energy to having the last word about that and establishing his authority on the subject. It's not that he's "bad", it's that in his mind he's by definition right, thus if you disaggree with him you must be the ignorant simpleton.
And with the fanboy or zealot on an ideological crusade to save the wold. And no means or disinformation are too much for such a "noble" goal.
And with the kind of joker who isn't inherently "bad", but thinks he's funny and you should stop taking yourself so seriously. It's the kind who'll write a whole article about cloning didgeridoos or insert a paragraph about how Bush shot Kennedy, just because he thinks he's funny. In fact, he thinks he's hillarious. The whole world should stumble upon his gems of pure comedy and laugh their arse off.
And with the paid shill or PR guy who isn't in it to be an "asshole", but to sell you a bottle of snake oil for good money. They already have no remorse in creating "news" for more traditional media. In fact, at least in America, _most_ news you read are just veiled PR campaigns. What makes you think they won't do the same pollution on Wikipedia, if it makes a buck?
Etc, etc, etc.
Re:Why that's a bogus argument (Score:2)
More importantly, don't you think it's good public knowledge to spread the word that assholes usuall
Re:Why that's a bogus argument (Score:2)
Re:You're forgetting something (Score:2)
Somehow Wikipedia continues to be useful. I understand what you're saying, but whatever criticism anyone has of Wikipedia, no matter how valid, igno
Does it? (Score:4, Interesting)
I actually personally noticed a very curious effect. Articles relating to my native Ukraine are constantly assulted with rabid natonalistic Russian point of view, the vast majority of it comming from a small bunch of trolls. The few Ukrainian are simply outnumbered by the aggressive nationalist Russians editing and the few Brittons or Americans unable to notice the bias. On the other hand the coverage of Ukraine related topics on the Russian language wikipedia, although of course with a clear bias, is actually somewhat more neutral as there are simply more normal people interested in the topic and somewhat familiar with it but without a malicous agenda.
Wikipedia article "Talk" works fine. (Score:3, Informative)
Even though the controversy has not fully ended, it has slowed to the point that we reported it as concluded [chatmag.com]
I am convinced that the discussion feature works in that all parties involved have had more than their share of chances to defend their positions. The self correcting format of Wikipedia, in both the editing and discussions, sets Wikipedia in a class of its own.
What a coincidence ... (Score:3, Interesting)
DIGITAL MAOISM: The Hazards of the New Online Collectivism [edge.org] by Jaron Lanier [edge.org].
While acknowledging Wikipedia's usefuless, criticizes its exalted status among the digitally connected.
Why wiki's can work at work (Score:4, Interesting)
* They center work on a topic around a group of webpages
* They are easy to use. Socialtext is just a double click on a page
* They open up information to the entire organization through simple searches
* Information entered into them for the benefit of the project group is immediately also of benefit to others. So when doing my job, I unintended also help others
* They enable sending e-mail to and from pages, enabling e-mail repositories and lists of useful links on the relevant page.
* By sending an e-mail to the relevant project page, you add both metadata to the page and to the e-mail.
* They are free form, but can be structured
* If one co-worker doesn't update his page, because of time constraints or just being dead, others can.
* They can be about such highly critical information as: Best restaurants in Berlin, travel suggestions to Kiev, the latest law and its implications, biographies of important people, a list of insultants, the next project meeting or the office Christmas party, without requiring a central command and control structure.
* They don't assume where knowledge is in the organization.
For a review of Jotspot, Socialtext and Wetpaint see here [blogspot.com]
It works... and it does not (Score:4, Insightful)
It does not work for scientific purposes. Because of its very nature. Anyone could change a "fact". It could have been edited only once (because aside of me and the autor nobody cares about the subject), and he got it wrong. Not even maliciously, he just made a mistake. If it's a disputed topic, from religious to political matters, and of course to entries about companies, you can not rule out that you'll get incomplete or biased information. Even if you take the whole history and discussion page of the article into account.
What you can do, though, even if you need the info for a scientific paper, is to check the Wikipedia for its reference section. More often than not, you'll find links to "scientifically acceptable" sources there.
difference between en and de (Score:4, Interesting)
It is what it is, and that's quite good (Score:2, Interesting)
About contemporary people and the like, Wikipedia is often far superior to Britannica, due to its currency. Of course, there can be a lot of spin in those articles, as there are still people alive and in many cases editing Wikipedia who benefit directly from that spin. But it
Re:It is what it is, and that's quite good (Score:2)
When I complained to the online editor, he said that he regarded Wikipedia as authoritative, and pointed me at their definition, which indeed was ridiculously expansive. So I went and edited it to something more reasonable, and told him. He then circulated email to all the bloggers saying Wikipedia's definition of "enterprise applications" had changed, and since that was authoritative, their usage should conform to the new definition.
Sounds like Wikipedia needs a short "authoritative" entry about him su
False positives (Score:2, Insightful)
Crunching the Math On iTunes - http:// [slashdot.org]
Its not so great (Score:3, Informative)
The same thing can occur in pushing poit of view in articles, and other agendas people want to push. its a nice read, but there needs to be some reform there to account for people who want to use wikipedia as a soapbox, and other dumbassery.
WTF is a "leading Wikipedia practitioners" (Score:2)
Shedding MySQL? (Score:3, Interesting)
Does that mean they will shed MySQL? Sorry if it sounds like trolling, but quite often Wikipedia problems (and problems at other very high load sites such as /. itself, my email provider etc) are traced back to MySQL. Or is MySQL getting so much better so soon?
Alternative ways Wiki could work (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Ask CmdrTaco!! (Score:2)