MS FrontPage Restricts Free Speech II (It's True!) 763
A mild controvery occured yesterday in a story claiming Microsoft prohibits anti-ms speech if you use Frontpage. Here is a followup submitted by Reyacta from the original author: "Several readers have told me their
EULA for FrontPage 2002 does not contain the no-disparaging-MS
term, or that the term only applies to the FrontPage logo or to the
Web components like the MSNBC news headline component.
Just to be sure, this afternoon I went down to the store and bought
a copy of FrontPage 2002 myself. In the box was the "Microsoft
Frontpage 2002" license on a four-page folded sheet, titled "End- User License Agreement For Microsoft Software." Under Section
#1, Grant of License, the second paragraph headed "Restrictions"
states in part: "You may not use the Software in connection with
any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or
their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other
rights of these parties, violate any state, federal or international
law, or promote racism, hatred or pornography." (Not only a
stunning example of legal overreaching, in my opinion, but very
poor grammar as well.) It appears to me to clearly apply to use of
the program as a whole and not just the logo or Web components.
I suspect that there are different versions of the EULA of FrontPage
2002. Perhaps the license was updated for the most recent SKU,
or versions obtained through different channels don't yet have it.
I'm going to try to get Microsoft to clarify where this EULA does
and doesn't appear, but I'm not sure they will be very anxious to
provide me with that information.
Reply to Ed Foster."
Microsoft's new dictionary EULA (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Microsoft's new dictionary EULA (Score:2, Insightful)
EULA: Photo of Bill Gates above your desk. (Score:3, Insightful)
"All your thoughts are belong to us!"
That reminds me, whatever happened to the Natalie Portman and hot grits posts? And where is signal11?
The EULA of the future will prohibit even thinking a bad thought about Microsoft. The serial numbers will be 100 digits long, and you will be told to post a photo of Bill Gates above your desk. Some reviewers will say that Microsoft was very kind to include a photo in the box, so that users do not have to buy one separately.
What Should be the Response to Violence? [hevanet.com]
Hee - pretty soon... (Score:4, Insightful)
When you get a GPF - you'll be forbiden to yell and holler about those MS morons while you watch hours of work disappear.
When you get a Outlook Express virus, you'll be forbiden to say it's an exploit of MS, but rather you'll have to concede it's a feature.
When your network crashes, you will be forbiden to call anyone and tell them that Microsoft crashed - you'll have to blame it on yourself or proclaim that it's a result of Microsoft ceasing function to end a critical memory leak for your benefit.
When the internet becomes YAMM - Yet Another Microsoft Monopoly - you'll be forbiden to get online and complain about Microsoft in any way - even to Microsoft's own support staff. You will only be able to praise Microsoft's infinite wisdom and grace.
When entertainment centers become YAMM, you'll be forbiden to play any music that uses Microsoft's name in vain.
When toilets become YAMM, you'll be forbiden to fart in any way that sounds like Microsoft or Bill Gates.
When churches become yet another YAMM, you'll be required to... well, we'll wait and see...
what next? (Score:4, Flamebait)
Re:what next? (Score:2)
I know it's a troll, I'll to make it clear to anybody who might be fooled. Open source software can be used to do anything you want. You can use your Emacs editor on your Linux box to write a MS driver or even to write Word itself if you're so inclined. It's only when you're using GPLed *code* that you have to release modifications and addons to that code under the GPL.
Re:what next? (Score:3, Informative)
Even that much isn't true. It's not all "use" of the code that requires you to release your mods under GPL, it's only when you *distribute* the GPLed code, you have to distribute your mods to it as well.
As long as you don't redistribute the GPLed code, do whatever you feel like. If your own code is modularly seperated from the GPL code enough that you don't need to release any GPL code in order to release your own code (if your own code can be released in a stand-alone fashion), then pick whatever license terms you want. The "viral" nature of the GPL only applies to situations where you are passing on the GPL code to others. If you write some software that's modular enough that you can make installation instructions like "First download GPL product Foo, then download my product Bar, then compile Foo, then compile Bar and run it." Then in that case your product Bar can use whatever license you like, because you aren't really distributing the GPL Foo code - you are just distributing your own code and that's it.
This is why, for example, you may distribute a binary you compiled with gcc, without having to GPL your source for it (and this was true even before the invention of the LGPL).
To the idiots who keep trashing the GPL based on this myth, let me repeat: The "viral" nature ONLY applies to when you have to RE-distribute the GPL'ed program as part of your own. You don't have to do that unless you merged your code with the GPL code in some way. If you didn't do that, you wouldn't need to redistributed the GPL code as part of your own.
Re:what next? (Score:2)
It's not like Mozilla, where most developers are employed by the same company. So please stop worrying. Your joke is not funny.
Re:what next? (Score:5, Informative)
Unless "all the software you write with it" means "all the software that you create that incorporates source code taken from the source code of Linux" (and i would assume it is not, for i would expect that the prestigious StreetLawyer would not be one to make a grammar ambiguity mistake):
In either of the cases described above, you are still free to simply use the older, less restrictively licensed versions of Linux already out there, as the GPL does not allow anyone to retract a license they have given someone under the terms of the GPL.
Re:Microsoft's new dictionary EULA (Score:2)
I.e.
1. Contact your attorney and tell them you're going to recklessy cause trouble and he/she'd better clear some calendar time, since the plaintiff will be Microsoft Corporation.
2. Create a simple homepage (index.html) which states: "Microsoft is a evil, monoplistic company bent on world domination and MSN and MSNBC are their versions of Charlie McCarth and Mortimer Snerd"
3. Place the offensive page on a server and contact them, perhaps take out an ad in the Seattle Times, be sure to include URL and mention you are violating this witty bit of EULA.
4. Make sure as many papers, TV news, magazines know about this, doesn't hurt to post it on Slashdot or Kuro5hin
5. Have lots of fun.
BTW, might be advisable to wait a few weeks, unless you'd like Microsoft to triumph because everyone is busy looking at what CiC Bush is doing to bring justice to terrorists.
This submitter needs to give more info. (Score:2)
"Under Section #1, Grant of License, the second paragraph headed 'Restrictions' states in part: 'You may not use the Software...'"
In the license I saw, an earlier paragraph said:
"For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline component, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component."
The story submitter doesn't say whether this clause is in his EULA or not. If it is, then as previously reported, the site content restrictions only apply to sites that use services provided through MSN, not all sites that are created with FrontPage.
Re:Microsoft's new dictionary EULA (Score:2)
And check the definition of Microsoft in the Encarta... Any dictionary lauding Microsoft that much has to be owned by them...
encarta: (Score:5, Funny)
The Encarta Dictionary [msn.com] says "No matches found for: Microsoft"
The Encarta Encyclopedia [msn.com], however, has a much more fitting definition:
"Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0005', Invalid procedure call or argument,
I think that really sums it up!
On the Plus Side... (Score:2)
Huh. (Score:3, Redundant)
Whoda thunk it?
Re:Huh. (Score:3, Insightful)
Does someone out there want to volunteer to be a test case? Write a page in Frontpage detailing all the (true) nasty things that Microsoft has done, "disparage" them, call Bill names, and other rude things. But be careful to not actually say anything that violates a real law, like libel. A quick check with a real lawyer might be a good idea.
Then send an anonymous tip to Microsoft's Department of License Compliance, or whatever they call themselves, with the url, and see what happens. I would try this myself but I don't have Frontpage. Or even better - maybe a real news organization can do it:
CNN Headline: Microsoft Sues CNet for Frontpage License Violation:
Today, Microsoft announced that they are suing CNet for violation of the terms of use of the FrontPage HTML editor. "The pseudonymous "Spencer Katt" columnist disparaged Microsoft, called Bill Gates a "World Dictator Wannabe", and said Frontpage is crap and generated awful HTML. But he used Frontpage to write the article, and that's a clear violation of our fearsome and deadly EULA, a Microsoft PR lackey told the press..."
Wheeee!
Re:MOD THIS UP! (Score:2)
Grammar (Score:3, Funny)
Where's the verb in this sentence?
Re:Grammar (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Grammar (Score:2)
Or even:
"It's a shortened sentence, which is O.K. when speaking in English."
Can you spot the six corrections?
Re:Grammar (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, the verb in that sentence is the word "is", but it's implied by the context. The word "is" is not in possession of implied, so the possessive form of the pronoun "it" is out of place in your sentence.
On the other hand, poor grammer or spelling is a sure way to look stupid.
Well said. We should always strive for proper spelling and good grammar.
Re:Grammar (Score:2)
A sentence fragment.
Another.
Good way to communicate.
You understood that, didn't you? You were not the least bit confused, and you probably also saw the humor in it. You are, if truly a pedant, now annoyed by my use of the second person.
***NEWS FLASH!***
Formal written English is a dialect that is not commonly used by human beings in informal communications. Furthermore, its rules are guidelines often violated by good writers.
Terrorists... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Terrorists... (Score:2)
I think that proof he is not is that Redmond was untouched by all this mess.
I think no terrorist in their deviate minds would allow not to at least graffiti on MS's walls if they, at some point, had to use any of MS's product.
Re:Terrorists... (Score:2)
chmod a+x
Okay, yes, it's geeky, but it wasn't my creation... :-)
Re:Got Capone on Tax evasion -- why not? (Score:2)
Monopoly separation failed... (Score:2)
"Hey, the government loves us enough to not separate us, lets see what else we can get away with!"
Seriously, its like training a Jack Russel Terrier. They are constantly testing their bounds to see what they can get away with. Someone needs to smack MS hard, and fast.
That sucks (Score:2, Funny)
Re:That sucks (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure I've seen a few created that way, so in theory people are violating the EULA, most likely without even knowing it.
How are those people to be punished?
D
the punishment... (Score:2)
Seems pretty stupid... (Score:2, Funny)
(intended as humor)
Re:Seems pretty stupid... (Score:3, Funny)
Hatred? (Score:2)
It seems these argeements tend to get more sweeping. I can understand them actually saying 'don't use our products to disparage us'. Whether or not that's legal or binding, it's understandable.
But "hatred"? That's such a broad term that I'm rather surprised a legal let it in. How do you define hatred? Or rather, where does the definition stop? Many people agree on certain actions being 'hateful' or based on hatred, but others wouldn't be so clear cut. Anti-abortion sites might be considered 'hate' sites by some people- can they not use front page? Hatred (and porn) is in the eye of the beholder oftentimes, so how can a person USING the software determine how OTHERS will classify their use of the product?
Re:Hatred? (Score:3, Funny)
Stupid lawsuits (Score:2)
I could totally see someone deciding that the website creator was not enough money and deciding to sue MS instead for creating the software that allows it.
Re:Stupid lawsuits (Score:3, Funny)
Fuss... (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft Lawyer: "Your honor, I call CmdrTaco to the stand."
Taco: (takes stand)
MS: "Did you, on 9/20/2001, purchase a copy of Frontpage 2000?"
Taco: "Yes."
MS: "Did you, on 9/21/2001, use Frontpage 2000 to create a web site?"
Taco: "Yes."
MS: "And did that web site contain pictures of Mr. William H. Gates III engaging in copulation with half a dozen goats while simultaneously using the Microsoft logo to spank cash out of customers, bent over with their palms on the floor, pants around their ankles and stupid smiles on their faces?"
Nice precedent (Score:2)
In other news: "You may not use this pen to write disparaging statements about BIC [bicworldusa.com], or to commit slander, libel, or any criminal act. BIC explicitely refute any liability for misuse of this kind."
Great marketing move! (Score:4, Redundant)
Show me a scan, please (Score:2)
I'm sure the poster is showing that particular section, but other agreements found on the web had language at the beginning of the section restricting the scope of following sections.
I'm still dubious on this until I see it for myself, in context.
Re:Show me a scan, please (Score:2)
Read the beginning of the section. Does it say something like, "For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline compone nt, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component."?
Well I didn't agree to that license... (Score:2)
Internet Explorer License (Score:2)
"You may not use the Software to view any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state, federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred or pornography. Or Slashdot."
I wonder if the lawyers at various companies have contests to see who can sneak the most outrageous EULA past customers. I can just see it,
"Hey Ted, now everybody who buys our software X has to name their firstborn after me."
"Ha! That's nothing. Everybody who buys our stuff has to GIVE me their firstborn."
Microsoft is bad for the economy (Score:2)
Now they won't sell Front Page to the porn industry? I bet 90% of the porn sites out there were created by it.
Microsoft continues to damage the economy by their actions.
Re:Microsoft is bad for the economy (Score:2)
Damn. Now I'm gonna have to use Powerpoint to create my anti-Microsoft, KKK fetish, pr0n site.
It's gotten so bad that Ron Jeremy [obeygiant.com] even broke down and learned how to use emacs to write HTML
and JavaScript.
Definition of "The Software" (Score:2)
Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
Microsoft EULA: "You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state, federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred or pornography."
I think the part about "racism, hatred or pornography" is only there to get sympathy and to hide that Microsoft is trying to repeal the U.S. constitutional right to free speech.
If Microsoft is allowed to continue this way, it will eventually be: United States, a Microsoft company.
What Should be the Response to Violence? [hevanet.com]
Re:Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
What part of "Congress shall" do you not understand?
Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
Doesn't change anything. Microsoft is saying they are above the law of the land.
Re:Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
Microsoft is operating perfectly within the law of the land.
This is contract law, pure and simple.
Re:Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
Not that this is the worst thing in EULA's. The worst thing is perfectly standard in software and only in software: the combination of clauses stating that they don't guarantee the program will actually work, you aren't allowed to fix it (no modifications allowed), and they aren't responsible for losses due to bugs (e.g. lost data, time rebuilding crashed systems).
Re:Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
Lots of organizations restrict your freedom of speech- like my university, for instance. If you don't like it, you're free to deal with someone else. They can't exile you to Siberia or have you shot for sedition, unlike governments.
Frankly, I think such clauses are absurd. The logo, sure, but the HTML editor? Some junior partner in a Seattle law firm is trying waaay too hard. However, no one is forcing you to use FrontPage, and why would you use Frontpage if you think MS sucks? Duh. I use vi on Linux/IRIX, so this sounds like lots of fuss about nothing.
Microsoft: You cannot say anything bad about us. (Score:2)
Interesting.
The Microsoft EULA is an anti-competitive practice, however, isn't it? In some cases, it could discourage someone from saying they don't like a Microsoft product.
Re:Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
A very good point. Only the government is specifically restricted by the Constitution. Misleading subject to the main article as well, wasn't it?
Re:Microsoft: We are above the U.S. constitution. (Score:2)
Just like PETA, huh?
Here is the Windows XP EULA for review : (Score:3, Informative)
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
(either an individual or a single entity) and Microsoft
Corporation for the Microsoft software product identified above,
which includes computer software and may include associated
media, printed materials, "online" or electronic documentation,
and Internet-based services ("Product"). An amendment or
addendum to this EULA may accompany the Product. YOU AGREE TO BE
BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY
INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE
PRODUCT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL
OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR
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hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, either
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to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions
of merchantability, of fitness for a particular purpose,
of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness
of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack
of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to
the Product, and the provision of or failure to provide
support or other services, information, software, and
related content through the Product or otherwise arising
out of the use of the Product. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY
OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT,
QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO
DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT WITH
REGARD TO THE PRODUCT.
13. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL
AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE
MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE
LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS
SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL,
INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR
CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES
FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR CONFIDENTIAL OR
OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS
INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL INJURY, FOR
LOSS OF PRIVACY, FOR FAILURE TO MEET
ANY DUTY INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH OR OF
REASONABLE CARE, FOR NEGLIGENCE, AND
FOR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS
WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY
WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY
TO USE THE PRODUCT, THE PROVISION OF
OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT OR OTHER
SERVICES, INFORMATON, SOFTWARE, AND
RELATED CONTENT THROUGH THE PRODUCT OR
OTHERWISE ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE
PRODUCT, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN
CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS
EULA, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF THE FAULT,
TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT
LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT OR BREACH
OF WARRANTY OF MICROSOFT OR ANY
SUPPLIER, AND EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY
SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
14. LINKS TO THIRD PARTY SITES. You may link
to third party sites through the use of the Product. The
third party sites are not under the control of Microsoft,
and Microsoft is not responsible for the contents of any
third party sites, any links contained in third party
sites, or any changes or updates to third party sites.
Microsoft is not responsible for webcasting or any other
form of transmission received from any third party sites.
Microsoft is providing these links to third party sites to
you only as a convenience, and the inclusion of any link
does not imply an endorsement by Microsoft of the third
party site.
15. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES.
Notwithstanding any damages that you might incur for any
reason whatsoever (including, without limitation, all
damages referenced above and all direct or general
damages), the entire liability of Microsoft and any of its
suppliers under any provision of this EULA and your
exclusive remedy for all of the foregoing (except for any
remedy of repair or replacement elected by Microsoft with
respect to any breach of the Limited Warranty) shall be
limited to the greater of the amount actually paid by you
for the Product or U.S.$5.00. The foregoing limitations,
exclusions and disclaimers (including Sections 11, 12 and
13 above) shall apply to the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, even if any remedy fails its
essential purpose.
16. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All
Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is
provided with the commercial license rights and
restrictions described elsewhere herein. All Product
provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations
issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with
"Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14
(JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988),
as applicable.
17. APPLICABLE LAW. If you acquired this Product in the United
States, this EULA is governed by the laws of the State of
Washington. If you acquired this Product in Canada, unless
expressly prohibited by local law, this EULA is governed
by the laws in force in the Province of Ontario, Canada;
and, in respect of any dispute which may arise hereunder,
you consent to the jurisdiction of the federal and
provincial courts sitting in Toronto, Ontario. If this
Product was acquired outside the United States, then local
law may apply.
18. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This EULA (including
any addendum or amendment to this EULA which is included
with the Product) are the entire agreement between you and
Microsoft relating to the Product and the support services
(if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous
oral or written communications, proposals and
representations with respect to the Product or any other
subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent the
terms of any Microsoft policies or programs for support
services conflict with the terms of this EULA, the terms
of this EULA shall control.
19. The Product is protected by copyright and other intellectual
property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own
the title, copyright, and other intellectual property
rights in the Product. The Product is licensed, not sold.
Si vous avez acquis votre produit Microsoft au CANADA, la
garantie limitée suivante vous concerne :
GARANTIE LIMITÉE
Microsoft garantit que le Produit fonctionnera conformément aux
documents qui l'accompagnent pendant une période de 90 jours
suivant la date de réception.
Si une garantie ou condition implicite est créée par votre État
ou votre territoire et qu'une loi fédérale, provinciale ou
étatique en interdit le déni, vous jouissez également d'une
garantie ou condition implicite,
MAIS UNIQUEMENT POUR LES DÉFAUTS DÉCOUVERTS
DURANT LA PÉRIODE DE LA PRÉSENTE GARANTIE
LIMITÉE (QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS). IL N'Y A
AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION DE QUELQUE
NATURE QUE CE SOIT QUANT AUX DÉFAUTS
DÉCOUVERTS APRÈS CETTE PÉRIODE DE QUATR
E-VINGT-DIX JOURS. Certains États ou territoires ne permettent
pas de limiter la durée d'une garantie ou condition implicite de
sorte que la limitation cidessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous.
Tous les suppléments ou toutes les mises à jour relatifs au
Produit, y compris notamment (le cas échéant), tous les ensembles
de services ou les réparations à chaud qui vous sont fournis
après l'expiration de la période de quatre-vingt-dix jours de la
garantie limitée ne sont pas couverts par quelque garantie ou
condition que ce soit, expresse,implicite ou en vertu de la loi.
LIMITATION DES RECOURS; ABSENCE DE DOMMAGES
INDIRECTS OU AUTRES. Votre recours exclusif pour toute violation
de la présente garantie limitée est décrit ci-après. Sauf pour
tout remboursement au choix de Microsoft, si le Produit ne
respecte pas la garantie limitée de Microsoft et, dans toute la
mesure permise par le droit applicable, même si tout recours
n'atteint pas son but essentiel, VOUS N'AVEZ DROIT À AUCUNS
DOMMAGES, NOTAMMENT DES DOMMAGES INDIRECTS.
Les modalités de la clause "Exclusion des dommages accessoires,
indirects et de certains autres dommages " sont également
incorporées à la présente garantie limitée. Certains États ou
territoires ne permettent pas l'exclusion ou la limitation des
dommages indirects ou accessoires de sorte que la limitation ou
l'exclusion ci-dessus peut ne pas s'appliquer à vous. La présente
garantie limitée vous donne des droits légaux spécifiques. Vous
pouvez avoir d'autres droits qui peuvent varier d'un territoire
ou d'un État à un autre. VOTRE RECOURS
EXCLUSIF. La responsabilité intégrale de Microsoft et de ses
fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, selon le choix de
Microsoft de temps à autre sous réserve de toute loi applicable,
a) le remboursement du prix payé, le cas échéant, pour le Produit
ou b) la réparation ou le remplacement du Produit qui ne respecte
pas la présente garantie limitée et qui est retourné à Microsoft
avec une copie de votre reçu. Vous recevrez la compensation
choisie par Microsoft, sans frais, sauf que vous êtes responsable
des dépenses que vous pourriez engager (p. ex., les frais d'envoi
du Produit à Microsoft). La présente garantie limitée est nulle
si la défectuosité du Produit est causée par un accident, un
usage abusif, une mauvaise application, un usage anormal ou un
virus. Tout Produit de remplacement sera garanti pour le reste de
la période de garantie initiale ou pendant trente (30) jours,
selon la plus longue entre ces deux périodes. À l'extérieur
des États-Unis ou du Canada, ces recours ou l'un quelconque des
services de soutien technique offerts par Microsoft ne sont pas
disponibles sans preuve d'achat d'une source internationale
autorisée. Pour exercer votre recours, vous devez communiquer
avec Microsoft et vous adresser au Microsoft Sales
Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, ou à
la filiale de Microsoft de votre pays.
DÉNI DE GARANTIES. La garantie limitée qui apparaît ci-dessus
constitue la seule garantie expresse qui vous est donnée et
remplace toutes autres garanties expresses (s'il en est)
mentionnées dans tout document, emballage ou autre communication.
Sauf en ce qui a trait à la garantie limitée et dans toute la
mesure permise par le droit applicable, le Produit et les
services de soutien technique (le cas échéant) sont fournis TELS
QUELS ET AVEC TOUS LEURS DÉFAUTS par
Microsoft et ses fournisseurs, lesquels par les présentes dénient
toutes autres garanties et conditions expresses, implicites ou en
vertu de la loi, y compris notamment (le cas échéant) les
garanties, devoirs ou conditions implicites de qualité marchande,
d'adaptation à une fin particulière, de fiabilité ou
disponibilité, d'exactitude ou d'exhaustivité des réponses, des
résultats, des efforts déployés selon les règles de l'art,
d'absence de virus et de négligence, le tout à l'égard du Produit
et de la prestation des services de soutien technique ou autres
services ou du défaut de fournir une telle prestation, de
l'information, du logiciel, et de tout contenu s'y rapportant à
travers le Produit ou autrement découlant de l'utilisation du
Produit. PAR AILLEURS, IL N'Y A AUCUNE
GARANTIE OU CONDITION QUANT AU TITRE DE
PROPRIÉTÉ, À LA JOUISSANCE OU LA POSSESSION
PAISIBLE, À LA CONCORDANCE À UNE DESCRIPTION
NI QUANT À UNE ABSENCE DE CONTREFAÇON
CONCERNANT LE PRODUIT.
EXCLUSION DES DOMMAGES ACCESSOIRES, INDIRECTS
ET DE CERTAINS AUTRES DOMMAGES. DANS TOUTE LA
MESURE PERMISE PAR LE DROIT APPLICABLE, EN
AUCUN CAS MICROSOFT OU SES FOURNISSEURS NE
SERONT RESPONSABLES DES DOMMAGES SPÉCIAUX,
ACCESSOIRES, EXEMPLAIRES OU INDIRECTS DE
QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT (Y COMPRIS
NOTAMMENT, LES DOMMAGES À L'ÉGARD DE LA PERTE
DE PROFITS OU DE LA DIVULGATION DE
RENSEIGNEMENTS CONFIDENTIELS OU AUTRES, DE
L'INTERRUPTION DES AFFAIRES, DE BLESSURES
CORPORELLES, DE LA VIOLATION DE LA VIE
PRIVÉE, DE L'OMISSION DE REMPLIR TOUT DEVOIR,
Y COMPRIS D'AGIR DE BONNE FOI OU D'EXERCER UN
SOIN RAISONNABLE, DE LA NÉGLIGENCE ET DE
TOUTE AUTRE PERTE PÉCUNIAIRE OU AUTRE PERTE
DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT) DÉCOULANT OU
SE RAPPORTANT DE QUELQUE MANIÈRE QUE CE SOIT
À L'UTILISATION DU PRODUIT OU À L'INCAPACITÉ
DE S'EN SERVIR, À LA PRESTATION DE SERVICES
DE SOUTIEN TECHNIQUE OU AUTRES SERVICES OU À
L'OMISSION D'UNE TELLE PRESTATION , À
L'INFORMATION, AU LOGICIEL ET À TOUT CONTENU
S'Y RAPPORTANT À TRAVERS LE PRODUIT OU
AUTREMENT DÉCOULANT DE L'UTILISATION DU
PRODUIT OU AUTREMENT AUX TERMES DE TOUTE
DISPOSITION DU PRÉSENT CONTRAT OU
RELATIVEMENT À UNE TELLE DISPOSITION, MÊME EN
CAS DE FAUTE, DE DÉLIT CIVIL (Y COMPRIS LA
NÉGLIGENCE), DE RESPONSABILITÉ STRICTE, DE
VIOLATION DE CONTRAT OU DE VIOLATION DE
GARANTIE DE MICROSOFT OU DE TOUT FOURNISSEUR
ET MÊME SI MICROSOFT OU TOUT FOURNISSEUR A
ÉTÉ AVISÉ DE LA POSSIBILITÉ DE TELS DOMMAGES.
LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÉ ET RECOURS.
Malgré les dommages que vous puissiez subir pour quelque motif
que ce soit (y compris notamment, tous les dommages susmentionnés
et tous les dommages directs ou généraux), la responsabilité
intégrale de Microsoft et de l'un ou l'autre de ses fournisseurs
aux termes de toute disposition du présent contrat et votre
recours exclusif à l'égard de tout ce qui précède (sauf en ce qui
concerne tout recours de réparation ou de remplacement choisi par
Microsoft à l'égard de tout manquement à la garantie limitée) se
limite au plus élevé entre les montants suivants : le montant que
vous avez réellement payé pour le Produit ou 5,00 $US. Les
limites, exclusions et dénis qui précèdent (y compris les clauses
ci-dessus), s'appliquent dans la toute la mesure permise par le
droit applicable, même si tout recours n'atteint pas son
but essentiel.
La présente Convention est régie par les lois de la province
d'Ontario, Canada. Vous reconnaissez irrévocablement par la
présente la compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et
consentez à instituer tout litige qui pourrait découler de la
présente auprès des tribunaux fédéraux ou provinciaux ayant
juridiction pour la ville de Toronto, province d'Ontario.
EULAID:WX.4_PRO_RTL_EN
I dunno if that was really necessary, but uh (Score:2)
This is the only weirdness I found. "If you get a key from us, we are permitted to install additional locks."
Re:Here is the Windows XP EULA for review : (Score:2, Interesting)
to permit any Device to use, access, display or run other
executable software residing on the Workstation Computer,.. .
Doesn't this mean that you can't connect a monitor to a machine running XP and then use it to display any executable except Windows XP?
Yes, this is taken out of context, but I didn't see anything else that would refute this interpretation.
P.S. I'm assuming that this is the real EULA and not just a joke. But I could be wrong (it's happened before)
Re:Here is the Windows XP EULA for review : (Score:2, Funny)
The only thing missing from this EULA is a statement like, "Do not make illegal copies of this End User License Agreement."
Re:Here is the Windows XP EULA for review : (Score:2, Funny)
So using the CD as a coaster still binds you to the EULA?
Insert witticism here
Amazing what you *can't* do with this (Score:3, Interesting)
No streaming cameras? No X-10? No RTTY?
No web, FTP or gopher servers, apparently including IIS (hooray!), no VNC, probably no SSH or telnet daemons, inasmuch as M$ are certain to define their miserable CLI as a part of XP's user interface.
Now for the scarey bit:
...even if they deliberately or accidentally fail, for example, by refusing to run certain important Open Source products. Remember ``DOS ain't done 'till Lotus won't run?'' Add this clause...
OK, here's the big one: we can change any of your software (the ``Product'' and/or components such as applications built to run on it and containing parts of it (runtime library interface module etc) without notice, and you agree to this. This includes new ``measures'' to prevent ``unlicenced or illegal use'' - and it's no great stretch of the imagination to visualise this including software made illegal by the SSSCA such as Apache, PHP or Screem [screem.org] (does FrontPage things only better, faster, cheaper and safer).
It's not just Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
I think there's a case to be made that End User License Agreements are accepted by users under duress, because there is no acceptable alternative to the software once it's in production and the company is relying on it for its core business processes.
Re:It's not just Microsoft (Score:2)
Re:It's not just Microsoft (Score:2)
Re:It's not just Microsoft (Score:2)
Re:It's not just Microsoft (Score:2)
Taken out of context? (Score:2)
This new article only states that the sentence does appear in the EULA, which was not in dispute.
What was in dispute was whether the sentence was taken out of context.
This new article doesn't provide any new evidence.
The next revolution (Score:2)
Wasn't it Sirius Cybernetic Corporation that Douglas Adams mentioned in HHGG that was predicted to be the first against the wall in the next revolution? He was a prophet...
Re:The next revolution (Score:2)
What is the big deal (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is the big deal (Score:2)
Well duh. We'd all love to see that. We don't like these terms and we just want to make sure everone knows them before they buy a product.
The GPL exists to keep software free and encourage others to create more free software. It's the *whole* point, it's widely advertised, and it's no secret.
Microsoft Walk Out? (Score:2)
I wouldn't mind it one bit if they all took a sick day at the same time, to tell Microsoft that they are sick of the Lawyers and the Marketroids screwing around with the public like this.
This has nothing to do with the quality of the product.
It was for reason like this that people start to sabotage repressive regimes.
This is evil, whoever put it in. And they wonder why people don't like them.
In times like these people and companies should assert and protect their rights. Not try to rip them off.
Restrictive EULAs (Score:2)
It's probably a pipe-dream, but I really do suggest that writers of EULAs, licences, etc, start by reading some books on how to recognise what is mutually beneficial and what is merely abusive.
I suggest starting with some light reading - "For Your Own Good", "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" and "The Road Less Travelled" are probably good places to start. You might notice that none of them specifically talk about EULAs, or indeed about computer software. However, they have a LOT to say about the mind, what stimulates it and what kills it.
I accept that no two people are going to agree on what is a sane policy or attitude, but one thing is certain. Unless people DO start thinking about such issues, we're going to see a lot more EULAs like this. And worse.
...Fool me twice, shame on me... (Score:5, Informative)
- Passport saying "all your info belongs to us" [slashdot.org]
- racketeering of digital photos [slashdot.org]
- Smart Tags [slashdot.org]
- Astroturfing [slashdot.org]
- etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
And this is just the ones where they got caught, the mainstream media cared, and they backed down. There's plenty of other shit they do that slides by.Sorry, but after the same exact set of events repeats itself dozens of times over the course of a decade, you can't chalk it up to accident any more. This is malice.
Re:...Fool me twice, shame on me... (Score:2)
I can usually be found defending MS... (Score:2)
If you don't like FrontPage's EULA, don't use it? (Score:2)
Are they not allowed to say anything negative about Microsoft (like reporting on sleazy things they did in the DOJ trial) just because their IT department decided that everyone's going to use FrontPage to generate web content? What about a news organization?
Think about if other companies did this. I remember back in 1997 when it fashionable to back Apple, you'd have writers penning very biased anti-Apple articles from their own PowerBooks (hey! I'm talking to you, Wired).
I guess this all stems from the idea that you can't buy software; you only license it. It'll only get worse when they put annual subscriptions into play because they won't have to take you to court; they'll just refused to renew your subscription.
I wonder if this means that Microsoft will someday decide to not renew some Microsoft-investigatin' journalist's subscription to their products because of some condition like this in the EULA.
Taco - Do some damned work already! (Score:2)
I realize that they aren't really journalists, but can't they just show a little bit of responsibility if they are going to keep posting about this?
Re:Taco - Do some damned work already! (Score:2)
"We offer no comment on this at this time."
So let's be practical... (Score:2)
That's a good article you've written here. I'm still wondering about one point: you actually gave Microsoft money, oh my, for a product you disagree with.
I think that the EULA authorises you to get a refund if you can't or don't want to comply with it. Did you use that opportunity to test how respectful of their own license they are? I believe that if they don't refund you, then they break their own license and then you're pretty much free to use the product according to your local laws and not the license. Did you actually give it a try?
License clarification (Score:2, Informative)
I've seen mention of this three times on ./, except that it has yet to be posted correctly or without bias. A paragraph prior to the one currently in question defines the use of the term "the Software" as the FrontPage Server extensions. I have copied the relevant portion of the EULA below.
I am not one who supports M$, their practices often disgust me, and I find their software to be cumbersome. However, I think that there are far too many people who will jump at any opportunity to cry murder. I am dissapointed that no one took two minutes to read the appropriate section of the EULA.
Just watch a user (Score:2)
persoanlly I think you would have to be an idiot to use it...
thus the 'reviewer' would never actually agree to the eula.
This will solve Phil Zimmermans problem... (Score:2)
"Do not use PGP for bad stuff."
This is what my lawyer friend said: (Score:2, Informative)
actually contains that provision, keep in mind that many contracts contain
illegal (or at least overreaching) clauses. My guess is that the provision
was included in the EULA as a scare tactic, and that a court would strike
down the provision if the EULA was ever litigated. "
psxndc
i don't like the taste of this at all. (Score:2)
Open standards (Score:2)
What needs emphasizing is that the standards we use to communicate must be in the public domain. If not, if an industry standard controlled by a company becomes widespread, the company can put in such clauses in effectively prohibit certain unwanted kinds of speech, typically we will see first speech that critizes the company.
Now, mark that The Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org] specifically grants the right to express yourself in any medium. If, say one company owns an industry standard that is the only way to communicate by speech, this human right does no longer exist.
That is why Ogg [xiph.org] is so important. It will make a standard for the public domain, and this standard is the only thing that saves free speech in the multimedia age. No Ogg, no free speech.
Similarily, we must make sure that similar bodies, working on other public domain standards, such as the W3C [w3.org] are successful. Without them, we're screwed.
An for those saying that "just don't use FP", well, you see, we all know M$ wants to control these commodity protocols, and M$ hardly cares about a bunch of geeks anyway, so us boycotting M$ doesn't help. Joe Sixpack must understand the problem, cause if he doesn't, they'll win, and turn the web into their network, and make sure FP is the only authoring tool you can use. It'll be the end of free speech too...
Ensuring that the standards are in the public domain is even more important than that software is Free (as in speech).
Re:Or... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I don't trust it -- but worth a laugh (Score:2)
Re:We don't need no steenking GUI!!! (Score:2)
Re:Very poor Grammar? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH (Score:2)
Text NOT in italics = Cmdr Taco or other staff
Is it really that hard to understand?
Re:Very poor Grammar? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH (Score:2)
thats what makes it funny. cmdrtaco has full editorial review, so why doesn't he exercise it.
Re:Well that language takes out work-around (Score:2)
Re:How Unreasonable is This? (Score:3, Funny)
No, it's called poetic justice...
OT: Sig... (Score:2)
Son, you have _far_ too much time on your hands...
The scary thing is, I agree with you!
You forgot the porn... (Score:2)
Re:Stupid (Score:2)
The big problem with frontpage is it defaults to portraying "this site runs under frontpage". If microsoft were to clean its software of its own filth then these liabilities wouldn't be an issue.
I bet each component is licensed, and the combination of everything has limited use functionality on the basis of the restrictions imposed within the EULA for the simple fact microsoft doesn't want to be liable for its software enabling users to distribute illegal content..
just like napster.. had to lock down until it coudl gurantee it wouldn't be used for illegal purposes.. microsoft doesn't want tthat to happen to front page
Re:Now Get a Refund (Score:2)
Re:EULA returns? (Score:2)
Re:Wow- what a move (Score:2)
Re:Wow- what a move (Score:2)