Dot-commers Back to the Dorm 181
securitas writes: "This is an interesting story about how many dot-com workers and CEOs left school, went broke, and are now back to their dorm rooms, studies, and keggers, having been through the modern equivalent of the Holland's tulip mania." Free reg. req. Bleah.
So what? (Score:2, Funny)
Sorry, but so what?
They were doing something, did something else for a while, and now they're doing the first thing again.
There's nothing at all special about that.
Re:So what? (Score:1)
Are these students able to get back into these schools?
Do they anticipate problems from not being as fresh in their subjects?
Are the numbers of returning students high enough in some cases that they will compete with current students for resources?
Maybe _I_ should go back to school and study journalism
Re:So what? (Score:1)
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Sailor: Kiss me! It's VJ Day! The war is over!!!
Beautful girl in Times Square: OK... but I don't see what the big fuss is. We were doing something, we did something else for a while, and now we're going to do the first thing again.
I did it backwards.... (Score:4, Funny)
I returned to school at the peak of the market since I could finally afford to pay for that fifth, six, and seventh year.
Whoops, look out Hemos.. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Whoops, look out Hemos.. (Score:2)
Hmmm. Seems Hemos isn't really checking those links!
Since it was me who submitted the "archive.nytimes.com" link (as it appears on the main page), does that mean that I'm the one who has to watch my back?
The next thing you know the NY times will be DMCA-ing /. Look out for the Night of the Long Knives!
Re:Whoops, look out Hemos.. (Score:2)
The most interest part was the last (Score:2, Insightful)
Those in other countries perhaps can't understand of which we speak - a CEO in the US makes about 500 to 600 times the base pay of the lowest paid employee in the US, not the 30 to 40 times common in Europe or the 20 to 30 times common in Asia.
So one day they're living the life of Riley, jetting around; the next I'm watching a film with them at the Film Fest, and they have less than my friends who work part time.
Zam. Icarus, you flew so high
Re:The most interest part was the last (Score:1)
Most of the money was virtual and the stock options weren't worth the paper they were printed on.
Re:The most interest part was the last (Score:1)
Really? (Score:2)
Re:The most interest part was the last (Score:1)
From what I understand, even though a 25-year old was the President/CEO, he also happened to be 1 of only 5 employees. Also working as hard as the rest of them.
If someone would pay the bills, I'd gladly trade work for College. Lots more girls there too!
Off topic... (Score:1)
Heh...
Uh... (Score:1)
No it isn't. Try checking your own links once in a while, eh? :)
-Legion
Bill isn't coming back (Score:1)
Comfort of College.... (Score:4, Insightful)
keggers instead of the watercooler?
sounds pretty good when you aren't making 6 figures and your stock options are worth less than your used college textbook.
A lot of my friends who went to dot-coms and e-business pipe dreams are now going back to school for more. I guess you just try to do the last thing that made you happy. For a lot of us who were beaten in the dot com bust that means school. At least we'll have plenty of doctors and lawyers who can code too.
Re:Comfort of College.... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Comfort of College.... (Score:2, Funny)
>keggers instead of the watercooler?
You obviously didn't read the article. Most of these people are going back to STANFORD. As John McEnroe once said "Nine out of ten girls in California are beautiful. The other one goes to Stanford."
Trust me, I go back there in a week and a half. Damn the wireless startups. Remember when "I work at a dotcom" could get you dates?
Re:Comfort of College.... (Score:2)
Maybe it was a hugely cunning way of making the professional population tech-savvy. OR: Maybe it was a hugely-HUGELY cunning way of making the professional population Microsoft haters.
Progress!
Dave
Maybe these students have something to teach (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Maybe these students have something to teach (Score:1)
I love my job and got offered plenty of those, "80 dollars a hour" jobs. Lets see, offering 80 bucks an hour to someone who is 19 with a year of college and two years of full time work experience as a software developer, Hmmmmmn....
It was just too good. So, I took the lesser paying job because I knew the company I am working for would be around. Yeah I worked those crazy
Jeremy
Not really (Score:3, Insightful)
Firstly, there is a world of difference between the "get-rich-quick" work ethic and that of someone fighting for a real startup--where they actually have to make things work.
Secondly, very few DotComemrs took real risk. Sure, many watched their stock options become worthless, but it was virtual money from the get go. It's not as if most of those kids could have gone to other jobs paying equivalent amounts of "real" money.
Thirdly, relatively few really were sufficiently high in management level positions to take any real responsibility for what happened. Many of those who were in "management" still do not; their attitude is that they had no responsibility for their investors money--it stinks.
Fourthly, besides the fact that they it was not their own money, by and large, they were living in such an artificial and over-inflated environment that few of them can claim to have any real business experience, other than perhaps to be a little more skeptical of the next fad.
Lastly, why shouldn't they hold their heads high? You think the DotCommers have it any worse than previous generations of college aged kids that were applying for jobs during full blow recessions? I have far more respect for the earlier generations there, they at least can claim to have seen real struggle.
hehe (Score:2)
....
Then, in August, Bluedog.com went under, and Mr. Douglas was suddenly just another unemployed dot-commer. "There was a great deal of grieving," he said. "It was really comforting to come back to school and throw myself into something more stable -- write papers, study for tests, earn my degree. No one can take those things from me." After graduation, he chose one of the oldest professions around: acting.
I think I will let this one speak for itself.
Your daily dose of surreality (Score:4, Funny)
(I guess i'll call this "karma anti-whoring")
Re:Your daily dose of surreality (Score:1)
So, not only do the slashdot readers not read the articles before commenting, neither do the slashdot administrators. I'm shocked.
Sweet deal. (Score:1)
Then you make more money in a day then your parents make there entire life.
Then you go back and drink have sex again.
Yah gosh, those dotcommers have it rough...
Man, go back to college. (Score:2, Insightful)
He was involved in "dot coms" for the past couple years after dropping out of college. To be honest he was hired because we NEEDED people - the rapid growth thing led to some crazy hiring decisions. We hired our share of idiots.
Anyone see this before?
So it's good he's going back to school, and to be honest, he really needs the education. Maybe he'll go into political science or something. He just wasn't cut out for the technology business.
So all this isn't about dot-com CEOs going back to school. It's about the uneducated going back to get an education.
Re:Man, go back to college. (Score:4, Interesting)
Too bad not everybody who comes out of school is well educated. In fact, I'd dare say more than half aren't. School isn't about education, and you've been ass-over-minded if you think otherwise. It's a business. A very profitable business, unlike the Dot-Coms. In fact, I'm not predisposed to the idea that the dot-com failures weren't some elaborate conspiracy to make school look even more important than people already think it actually is.
I'm in college. I'm a double major even. The more time I spend in college the more full of shit I find it actually ends up being. I've taught myself way more than most professors, and the few professors who HAVE taught me something preach that the system is full of shit.
I know what you're going to say, "Your school sucks, then." Probably. But I'm willing to bet yours does too. I'm quite sure they want your money and just like any other monopoly they will hunt down and destroy any system of teaching which undermines their stronghold on the market. You are a head of cabbage to them. A monthly income. A product being tested for loyalty to be sold off in the end to companies that want lapdogs and throw-rugs.
Dot-Coms failed for a large number of reasons, but any education that the tech-workers may have lacked was quite probably not a major contributing factor. I know of a few nice sized tech companies that doesn't have very many people with degrees simply because they want free thinkers who are willing to solve problems, not college grads with elitist attitudes. (Yes, I'm saying that most college grads have elitist attitudes. It's true, and deep down you know I'm right. There are exceptions of course, which is why I say most not all, but...) These companies have some bright schooled kids, there, too, to be sure. But most of the people who work for these companies are either still in college or they never started, and not only do they make good money but they have a stable jobs at companies that aren't dot-bombing.
I think everyone needs to ask themselves just a few simple quesitons...
1. Do I value a degree because I think I'm worthless without one?
2. Does my company value a degree as a test of devotion, or out of a requirement for a "well educated" background.
3. Am I happy working for someone else anyway?
...
I'm getting a degree for only one reason. I have a good job that's paying for it entirely. I realize not everyone is so lucky.
Re:Man, go back to college. (Score:1, Insightful)
Sure, you can go to a good school and get a sucky education. You can get a degree without a lot of learning, and come out not much different than how you went in. Then you can get a mindless job somewhere for the next 45 years, and you're done.
OR, you can go to an average school, and sign up for good courses. You can study hard. You can pick and choose the best professors. In the end, you have the same piece of paper, but you have a real education.
The choice is yours (the student's).
Very few schools actively help people to fail. Perhaps yours is one of them. If you're not getting an education, then just be lazy and squeek by and you get the piece of paper.
Some schools are for-profit businesses, but look into it
Re:Man, go back to college. (Score:2)
I've taught myself way more than most professors.
Yes, that is a good sign. I would go so far as to say that it is impossible for anyone but yourself to teach you anything. The secret to getting a lot out of an education is to think of it in terms of learning, rather than teaching. Every class you take gives you an opportunity to learn something. You probably could learn it yourself, with appropriate books, and enough time, but nowhere near as fast as if you have a professor and a class full of other students to help you.
So, you have to approach your schoolwork with the attitude that you are the boss of you. Nobody is going to make you do things the way the professor tells you too, and if you are willing to accept the consequences, don't do things you don't think are beneficial.
A lot of people, some professors included, probably don't agree with this aproach to learning. They may, in fact, believe that professors are sacred fonts of wisdom that bless students with their presence. But it doesn't matter -- you can learn almost as much from those professors as anyone else, more if you count learning to suffer fools gracefully.
Finally, I have gone to a lot of schools and had a lot of professors/teachers. Some were brilliant, some were idiots, some were wonderful people, some were complete assholes, some I loved, some I hated. But I have never -- repeat NEVER -- met a teacher who wasn't willing to help a student learn, if that student sincerly asked for it.
If you get any less than a stellar education, you have primarily yourself to blame.
Re:Man, go back to college. (Score:2)
I disagree. In my experience it is in fact much faster to learn something by yourself. How often do you actually ask someone for help? The only time I remember asking for help because I genuinely didn't understand the material was in the electronics course I had last semester, and that was because the course notes were very poor. When the information is in high-quality textbook form, I find I never need any assistance. The advantages of studying entirely by yourself are much greater: you can study at your own pace and don't have to waste time in inefficient classes. All classes, to some extent, spend too much time on topics you find easy and skim over those you find difficult. I often skipped physics classes -- to study physics!
I would argue that the purpose of teachers is not to communicate information but merely to put pressure on students to study. Most people would never learn anything in academic fields unless someone forced them to, and that's exactly what the school environment is for. I don't take courses on things that are sufficiently interesting that I can and do learn about them on my own (e.g. philosophy), but rather on topics that I hate but want to learn about anyway (math).
Re:Man, go back to college. (Score:2)
School is what you make of it. Learning is entirely your job. You are the only person that can teach yourself. And so on. I hear this all of the time. Given the above, please tell me exactly why I should drop $80,000 on something I should be able to do entirely by myself?
In the end, whatever the justification is for 4 years of bullshit (which may well be fun bullshit), employers want to see a stupid piece of paper. Some people probably believe that this piece of paper proves that they're qualified for their job, but a more common view of the piece of paper is "No one will hire me if I don't have it, so I need to get it, and I need to put up with 16 years of crap to do it".
Granted, this is much more important for some fields like medicine and perhaps law. Unfortunately, as the original poster said, college is big business. You don't have to be a crackpot to believe colleges want to convince every last person on earth to seek "higher education".
As it stands, the only thing a diploma will prove to me that the person knows how to party (and good for them), and that they can memorize. I'd actually be pretty disappointed to hear that someone spent all of that time and money and studied hard instead of attending some Roman style sex/drug orgies.
Skipping college makes things somewhat inconvenient, but it's nowhere near life ruining as everyone will tell you it is. I'm paid very well at my current job, run a computer consulting business on the side (which may become fulltime), and life is actually pretty good.
Another plus is that I don't have huge student loans to pay off.
This may not work for everyone, but I certainly don't regret my decision yet.
Re:Man, go back to college. (Score:2)
good (Score:1)
techienews network [utropicmedia.com] help us beta!!!
Re:good (Score:1)
Unless you're in some kind of management position, or pigeonholed developing in one specific coding language, a cert. may be your only ticket for receiving a hefty raise, moving within your existing company, or crossing the street for a few extra peanuts.
That being said, I also don't think cert. training precludes having the ability to innovate.
So thankful I stayed out of the dot bomb craziness (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So thankful I stayed out of the dot bomb crazin (Score:2)
It's a viscious cycle (Score:5, Funny)
But now that it's over and they're coming back to academia, the viscious cycle begins anew. These students, once they graduate, will have both classroom experience and real-world experience, and it'll simply raise the bar for everyone else. The choice for students arrived from outside the dotcom market will be between either taking time off and taking significant internships during their student years or simply go for more education (most will choose the latter). It'll be an upward spiral of higher education begetting better qualified workers begetting a need for higher education.
That's why it's critical, now more than ever, that we abolish universal education. Darwinian sociology tells us that the best will lead no matter what their headstart, so we should do away with unnecessary artificial government intervention in the education markets. Starting from a young age, children should be given strong incentives to go into factory work or indentured servitude, thereby setting a sufficient hurdle that only the truly motivated will enter primary and higher education.
The dotcom boom and bust was an important economic moment in history, but let's not let ourselves lose track of the bigger picture. Education is, one of the most important determining factors in people's quality of life, but we must not allow ourselves to overvalue its function or be irresponsible in its delivery.
There will always be a place for young people to go instead of university. The sooner we pull out of this economic slump, the better for these people.
Re:It's a viscious cycle (Score:1)
(For the clue-impaired: the above said with tongue firmly in cheek, as I hope the parent post was.)
Re:It's a viscious cycle (Score:2)
"Mmmm....Soylent Green."
This is totaly messed up. (Score:1)
I cannot comprehend your vision of society. Education is the best tool against poverty and ignorance. More education is a GOOD thing. It is not a dangerous tool that should be given only to the worthy.
You seem to have some kind of ideals but it is not clear. A system you are suggesting provides education only to those who can afford it. Why should a poor family struggle to provide education to their children, when I rich family can do it without problems. How could this possible be of benefit to society. Education should be available to all people who are capable of being educated, be they rich or poor. This is what will lead to a better society.
Of course I am talking about true education, teaching people to think criticaly, to analyse, to solve problems, to think for themselves. and providing the resources to help them expand their knowledge. I am not talking about a piece of paper that guarentees them a better job than someone else. Perhaps this is what you are talking about.
Re:It's a viscious cycle (Score:1)
Re:It's a viscious cycle (Score:2)
Repeat? (Score:1)
DOT-COM news are over blown as always (Score:1)
Well, this is like seeing a news report on how *someone* wone $M's in the lottery and than everyone jumps on and goes crazy beliving they are *the-one* going to win next no matter what.
Lets face it, the number of the DOT-COM'ers that made a $M+ are propotional to the number of people win the lottery to those who don't. The irony is that news media loves to give you news on such unique situations (and we love to hear them) -- so it ends up sounding as if *every* DOT-COM company is a $M winner where the reality is it's only 1 out of a M just like in a lottery.
Lets regulate the news-media -- maybe
Re:DOT-COM news are over blown as always (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with your point, but when these people were still hot shit, the media- especially, of course, the campus media- couldn't wait to get down on their knees in front of these guys. They had a launching party for their incubator at a nightclub. They were on cellphones all the time. They were quoted as saying that people like me were wasting their time with student jobs.
This was the attitude then, as published by an obnoxious grad student in our student paper:
All I can say is, "Eat me." Most of these people are back among us mere mortals, often after burning through massive amounts of cash. Meanwhile, I've learned four programming languages, gotten my name on scientific articles, and been promoted to positions that at least pay enough to keep the fiendish coffe habit going. I haven't missed any semesters, either.
These guys were full of crap up to their ears, and the only people who realized this were the tech people like me who didn't see the value in sabotaging our educations to buy Aerons and Sun servers. All most of these people had was flair, connections, and Dreamweaver 4, and I couldn't be more delighted to see them get burned.
[ not posting my name, thank you, but if you go to the same school you'll know where I'm from ]
PS. Want a dorm-room dotcom that works? Create an e-commerce site to sell weed to fellow undergrads. Can't fail.
School is anyday better (Score:1)
I know the pain (Score:1)
good stock options (Score:1)
They must be some very good stock options because, I don't know about were this guy lives, but $40,000 is not enough to do all the stuff he is doing were I live
Agreed... (Score:2)
I agree with ya - I make $42k at my day job before any overtime or bonuses. I live almost dead center of the US where the cost of living is fairly cheap (except for gas at the moment.) My idea of vacation (the first REAL non-working vacation in years) was to go to Colorado, and I could barely afford it. And I've got a second income from my game company!
He lived it up and partied on the idea that the stock options were going to be worth a fortune, or that somehow he was going to end up with an even higher salary. Well, I'm sure he's learned his lesson well enough now :-)
No Wonder the Bubble Burst (Score:1)
Next thing you know they'll be throwing millions at the kid down the street with the lemonade stand. I better go talk to the little pip sqeak to see if I can get in on some pre-IPO shares.
Hmm. (Score:4, Interesting)
But, I managed some really cool stuff in the last several months - I started Oomind.com [oomind.com] which is a pretty cool educational concept. The idea is to "open" education: anyone can be a learner and an educator and an accreditor using a sophisticated (some might say complicated) moderation system.
So if any of you out there are thinking about education instead of work, please check out oomind.com. It is set up so that you might even make a little money for your contributions to the system. Check out the following links for more info:
The Philosophy of Oomind [oomind.com]
Introduction to Oomind [oomind.com]
Thanks for taking the time to read my little blatant self-promotion. If anyone has suggestions about the Oomind system, I would love to hear them.
Re:Hmm. (Score:1, Interesting)
that doesn't make sense. Thank you
If I hear ONE more reference to tulip mania (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:If I hear ONE more reference to tulip mania (Score:2)
This may sound weird (Score:1)
Re:This may sound weird (Score:2)
Do what you are happy doing, not what makes you money. You have the right idea, and all the fucks in my CS classes didn't.
The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:1, Troll)
WHOEVER WROTE THIS IS MY NEW GOD
BTW, offtopic I know, but last time a discussion came up about degrees and career paths, boatloads of you hosers were spouting off on how you were l33t and knew you sh1t and made the bux, and how everybody was your bitches. I work in technical HR and I got flamed for posting the real reality of the situation. Well its a different day and just last Sunday there was an advert for a job fair in the DFW area for several dozen companies. Firstly the ad said "all positions require 3+ years and most require a degree". The fun part was actually at the fair. After it was over and a bunch of us HR folks went out for drinks (HR has lots of good loking chicks BTW) we had a good laugh about hot so many of your types are walking around with their tails between their legs trying to get jobs that pay 60% of what they were making when they got laid of 6-9 months before.
Also alot of laughs were had about what qualifies for instant filing in the old circular file. For example: no suit, TRASH CAN; visible tattos or piercing, TRASH IT; any sort of attitude, BYE BYE; no degree at all or incompleted degrees SEE-YA (yes even for IT positions); H1-B, sorry but upper management will not let us even look at the extra legal cost involved; wierd hair, THANK YOU HAVE A NICE DAY! You know how many folks out there have certification of one sort or another? Every single one who came by. Moved jobs around alot, more jobs then years of experience? NOPE not a chance in HELL!
Do you folks have any idea of the wonderful house cleaning that we did? Any lippy or attitude blasting employees, GONE. Not keeping regular hours (in at 9 don't care when you leave), BUHBYE. Making more then we think you should (mmmm, like more then 50k), HISTORY! Ya know they managed to trim over half a mil off the old payroll? Do you also know that as your salaries rose, so did ours? Especially those if us in technical recruiting? Did you also know that as yours has dropped by 10-30%, ours has remained steady? No more palm pilots, no more areon chairs for your fat asses, no more telecommuting (accounting tells me that I would be suprised how much that cut costs).
Do you know how I am making my rep as a kickass tech recruiter? I get well educated, well groomed, punctual, regular, hardworking, loyal, reasonable, candidates and weed from there. We have a long term plan too. If those candidates get hired and work out and prove themselves, they will be back up at their old rates in 2-4 years. If they dont work out, plenty more where they came from.
Re:The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:1)
Re:The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:1)
I hope your not composing letters to present these employees, your spelling and grammer leave alot to be desired.
Re:The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:3, Funny)
You just threw away the resume of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Wozniac, Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, etc...
Great move asshole. Suits and degrees don't give you skills.
Re:The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:4, Insightful)
Jobs should be based on merit, not quotas.
You work for the group of who are in essence communist-socialist. The potential to generate revenue is first and foremost; at best a tertiary concern could be the ability of that individual to conform to the pointy headed boss' work schedule.
My former IT boss/director was a lamer and inept as his job; but because he was punctual, wore a suit, fit the mold and talked the talk. He just couldn't walk the walk to save his ass. I turned down an offer for his jobs for something in California that paid $20,000 more than his job. Last I heard he was still dressed up in his little suit looking for a job.
I can go either way, California style or NYC Stock market style. Shorts or suit. I want a job to pay the bills. But to not look at me because I don't feel like dressing up for your (recruiter) lame-ass self is real swift. I have always gotten my own jobs, recruiters usually turn up shit jobs. All the recruiters I have ever talked to don't have a f-ing clue what I do for my job - and they clearly suck and finding me jobs because I managed to find myself one here during the
Most of the recruiters called me back a few times, but they failed to turn up any real leads. I feel bad for the guys washing the floors in the mailroom when they could have probably found something better without a recruiter.
I'll stick to work that I cultivate myself. Sure, I'll give bonehead recruiters a chance, but you guys suck at it (always seem to be well groomed, kempt, ex-jock losers who fail to realize taxi-drivers turn a better dime than they do), and you don't make the loot we make because your work is secondary to this business.
Just like the travel agent, your job is contingent on someone actually going out and doing something. When you contribute nothing to the advancement of humanity, you should serve the ones you do without being mealy mouthed cocky pricks.
Re:The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:4, Insightful)
You just threw away the resume of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Wozniac, Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, etc...
Right. But he's looking for EMPLOYEES, not wizards or entrepreneurs. These call for very different skills sets and personalities.
If I owned a company, and was looking for employees, the last thing I would want is a Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs.
Re:The best comment on the dot-com collapse! (Score:1)
Your pal is a bottom-feeder. (Score:1)
When a 24 y.o. agency bimbo asks you what version of MS-VC you have worked with, be sure to mention the *latest* version and to say that you've used it for 2 years even. Don't worry about the truth, just make sure they hear the numbers they want to hear. If you fail to do so : "4.5 ? Oh that's too bad, my customer wants someone with 4.6". Above all, don't even try to point out that 4.6 is 3 weeks old, just lie.
This is just one example among many, the list is too long.
I've sometimes asked an agency who at the employer's firm had written the job spec. It is often the employers' HR dept (who have about as much of a clue as the agency fools) who do that. Great.
Along with the dumb numbers games you also get despicable tactics to get some kind of psychological reading from you. Yeah, sorry, I'm not a fucking super-cool dude, when I go into an interview I'm very slightly on edge. If you deliberately put me in an interview that's rigged to put me at a disadvantage you'll just end up pissing me off.
Check this out : interviewer sits on a design office chair at the usual height off the floor. I'm told to sit on some design sofa with my ass 6 inches off the ground, your knees touch your chin, your smart pants ride up and your hairy shins are on display for all to see.
I hate those recruiter shits with a passion. The only difference now is that I've learned all their stupid tactics. It still doesn't calm my hate for those parasites.
Phew, that was a good rant.
Interviewing Dotcommers (Score:5, Funny)
The good ones just sit down and show their skills. We talk about a real job versus returning to school, etc.
The bad ones explain that they were a CEO/CTO, whatever, and want an equivalent job at our "real" company. We try to keep to a straight face while we explain that, if they are hired, they will have the title of "ultra-junior hire," and will be reporting to a person that left school a year or two before them (but who actually put the effort into learning about a real business.)
The real entrepeneurs aren't returning to school... they're getting decent jobs with good advancement possibilites right now. It's the poseurs that took a flier on cheap VC capital who are slinking back to an education on their parents' money.
Re:Interviewing Dotcommers (Score:1)
Re:Interviewing Dotcommers (Score:1)
Dont knock Experience (Score:4, Insightful)
On the subject of no jobs for dot.com peeps, we have 7 openings in my group (growth), and almost 30 for our department. We cant even find the right people to fill the jobs, it seems hard to find any unix/dba/network specialist or someone with a little experience who would pick it up. We hired one person who started 2 ISP's from scratch and sold them off before the boom, a very rare find. The local head hunters run out of people with any marketable skills quickly.
This is in Seattle Washington, so people in BFE like Spokane Washington would still be out of work.
Depends on the post you want to fill (Score:3, Insightful)
Phillip.
Re:Depends on the post you want to fill (Score:1)
Re:Depends on the post you want to fill (Score:1)
jobs (Score:1)
Don't knock College (Score:1)
-
Re:Dont knock Experience (Score:1)
If you can't find people, you're probably not offering enough money.
Re:Dont knock Experience (Score:2)
Sheesh. You're treating people like machines (Find person with skill X, insert into tab B) instead of biological systems that can grow into a worthwhile employee.
It's amazing how almost all other career fields have something like this, and IT doesn't.
Just graduated, very frustrated,
Erik Z
Re:Don't knock Spokane (Score:1)
I returned to school as a teacher. (Score:2, Interesting)
I've since landed a job teaching a Webmaster program for a private post-secondary institution in BC. In a way I'm much happier doing this than I was coding. I get to apply my technology knowledge and also use my social skills and interact with real people every day.
The whole idea of more tech workers being needed is at least partialy because there are not enough really good thorough focused training programs out there. If you found out during the dot com rush that you have a talent in technology and you've always been a good explainer and information sharer. Then perhaps one possible career move would be to go into teaching in a technology program.
Re:I returned to school as a teacher. (Score:1)
Yours Truly, Dot Com Lead Programmer
good timing (Score:2, Interesting)
Make the money while it's good, then go back to college when you probably wouldn't be able to get a job anyway? Sounds like a plan. And what is the big deal with the money anyhow? I mean sure making a decent money is important, but this article basically stressed that THAT is what the tech industry is all about (okay, and yeah it is to some extent). Thinking of my college experience, I saw more than a couple people who were CS type students who didn't even like programming much: they just wanted a high salary. To me, if you're really into tech stuff, the quality of your work will show through. If you're just in it for the money, then chances are you'll probably get the job done and nothing else (if that much), and that's what I think was wrong with the "dot com's" in the first place.
Re: good timing (Score:1)
i recently came to the us to look for a tech related job (bad timing huh). i have 3 yrs c/c++ coding experience with scsi and tcp/ip. explored the unix/linux system files a lot, done some net administration and i know my way around the computer. i'm not an expert in anything but i know where to look for the answers. i'd love to work on embedded linux devices or software development in *nix. (actually, any tech-related job will be fine)
i have been to a lot of job sites but recruiters aren't interested in hiring someone that doesn't exactly match what they're looking for.
would you hire someone who managed to convince your recruiter that he/she is an expert in (e.g. kernel programming)?
when can you call yourself an expert in %insert_specialized_field_here ?
Crappy code (Score:2, Interesting)
Back to school, hopefully they'll learn something this time.
(yes, my company has worked with a couple of "new economy" startups, so I know what I'm talking about).
Welcome to the real world..... (Score:1)
Still Kickin (Score:1)
Forget returning to school, if I can keep this job long enough, my plan is to purchase a franchise of some sort with the money i've been saving from this job so hopefully I dont have to worry about getting laid off anymore.
Hopefully they take a basic econ class this time. (Score:2)
Some of these companies had some good ideas (though most of them didn't), but managed their money so poorly that it shocked me. Everyone was in too much of a rush to get filthy rich that they didn't take it slowly and make sacrifices.
I think the next time around, people should become wise to the following:
-$700 is $700... you don't need that Aeron anyway.
-If you want your company to grow, you're going to have to make some initial sacrifices. That means CEOs of
-If you need to "bend over" for the VCs... you've already lost.
This is good news (Score:1)
And - when they drop out of college more high tech jobs for those of us that did graduate!
Humble them selves back to school (Score:1)
Maybe if people just SPENT less... (Score:4, Insightful)
Let me further preface this comment by saying that I do realize the overinflated tech sector actually collapsed (duh), that I understand that jobs are pretty hard to come by at the moment, and that I'm fairly afraid of what would happen if I lost mine somehow.
But (here comes the comment) I had the same fear back before the collapse. I came in at the tail end of the boom, and I was employed at what everyone around me considered an absurdly low wage (and which, really, was pretty low). I took the job because I believed the work was worthwhile and something I could be proud to have participated in (it was, it is). But despite my relatively low wages, I managed to save nearly half of what I made, simply by living within my means. I simply wasn't comfortable with debt or with living on the edge of my bank account.
Sure enough, I lost that job, through no fault of my own. When it happened, I had enough money to live for just under half a year, but I was still scared sick, because there wasn't more coming.
Didn't take long, fortunately, for me to find a new job. I now make twice as much as I was making before... and I'm saving money at about two and a half times the rate, because I haven't increased my expenses much over what they had been (I lost two roommates, so the rent tripled). It will probably be years before I do, and you can be sure I'll have at least one significant raise under my belt beforehand.
I guess my point is that I don't understand how people can suddenly find themselves making twice what they should be making (often more) and respond by spending it all. Think about how much money some of those people could have in the bank, right now... And it's not for the sake of the money itself, it's the security and peace of mind that having something to fall back on -- or someday build a future on -- gives you. I'd rather have that than a Porsche any day.
Re:Maybe if people just SPENT less... (Score:2, Funny)
Hey, some of us wish to reproduce.
Re:Maybe if people just SPENT less... (Score:2)
You, my friend, are doomed to become a millionaire like me. We are the invisible ones, who don't spend all our money on fancy clothes and cars, who max out our retirement plans, overpay our mortgages (into principal, natch), and end up with more wealth than all the high flyers.
Yes, it is hubris, the majority of execs spend more than they make, and have little to show for it. You can live quite well on a moderate salary, still afford to go on vacations, and educate your kids quite well - but your attitude must be different.
As an example, my dad and I went on a two-week vacation in France this year. We got cheap seats, flew economy, used Paris La Visite passes and Museum passes, took the TGV, and stayed in one or two star hotels. And we ate in the moderate parts of town.
So, for what it cost some of the people we saw on the rich island in center Paris to live for one day, we had two weeks of travel and fun. And we didn't wait in the lines they did, and got to see the real Paris.
The problem for the ex-CEOs is expectations. They expect to live that way as a CEO. If they were true geek CEOs, they would still live in a shared house, ride the bike to work, and keep their suits at work for when they needed to do the VC rounds. And, like Paul Allen, they would have diversified their investments so that their tech investments were only some of their holdings.
My dad got out of the markets back in February 1999 and went bonds, t-bills, and money market. He's done quite well. I stayed in and rode some IPOs, but cashed out half of most holdings when they got nuts. We're both better off than everyone else is, but we don't live high on the hog, so our natural saving nature keeps us investing for the future and only spending on what we truly care about.
And that, in short, is what makes the difference between a paper millionaire who's in debt for more than he's worth, and a real millionaire who doesn't do debt unless it's a very good idea.
Boom - Remember Aimster? (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, classes started two weeks ago, and Aimster's in an awful lot of trouble. On top of the financial woes stereotypical of most startups, its full-time development staff has been reduced from about 12-15 down to one or two. Why? My personal reason for leaving: after a year away, I realized just how much fun going to school really is, when compared to the "real world," and also how important it is to finish school now, while I'm still motivated enough -- the longer you're away, the harder it is to go back. Several developers are continuing in fairly limited part-time positions while taking classes, but classes are the priority.
The missight that I feel I made when I decided to leave school was this: I chose to believe that a company that hadn't even existed a month yet would be able to give me everything it said it would; also, I leapt at an opportunity for "quick-and-easy" gains without thinking about long-term effects.
This isn't to say that I think working at Aimster was a bad experience, or a waste of time -- I even got more than half of what they said they'd give me(!). But if another company approached me and promised me the world if I would just leave school, they'd have to deliver it up front -- and even then I might not take their offer
By the way: I bear no animosity toward anyone at Aimster, at least no more than you bear toward the rollercoaster after you get off at the end of the ride.
You left Rensselaer for Aimster?? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Aimster allows you to Find New Buddies and Share With Buddies."
Now there's a mission statement worth leaving a great school like RPI to pursue. Still, if you hadn't done it, you would have missed the experience. It would be like missing out on Woodstock. It may have been muddy and crowded and inconvenient, and there was bad purple acid and stuff, but those who went could brag about it for the rest of their lives. Have fun in school and pay attention in economics class.
Beware of enterprises that require new software - Didn't Benjamin Franklin say that?
Geoff Cook and CyberEdit? (Wired article) (Score:1)
Ade_
/
What tulip mania? - (Off-topic :^) (Score:1)
Isn't this some sort of urban legend floating around?
Re:Not me... (Score:1)
(Yes, I know, don't feed the trolls. Feh.)
Re:Not me... (Score:2)
I need a school that offers night classes. I've got 90+ hours (including an Associate's degree) towards a comp. sci. degree but I've got no options except Umsl if I want to take classes at night towards my 4 year degree.
How in the heck was I trolling?
Re:wow (Score:1)
Re:dot.bomb book (Score:1)
The book is a waste of money aimed at b-school dot com wannabes He hasn't regained any perspective at all. I wonder how lonely he'll be when he finds out no one cares about him anymore.
offtopic? (Score:1)
"... back to their dorm rooms, studies, and keggers, having been through the modern equivalent of the Holland's tulip mania."
So how is this tulip mania offtopic now? When was the tulip mania anyway, and who was involved, where did it happen?