AOL Opens ICQ? Well, Kinda. 97
daveuserland writes "Dan Gillmor got an email from Yossi Vardi of AOL pointing to a site where they document the API for ICQ. This is quite interesting. They have a long license agreement, so it's not exactly an open spec. I posted the agreement here so it's easy to read (on their page it appears in a tiny scrolling text box). I'm curious to know if their API is XML-based and if it is implemented in SOAP and/or XML-RPC." Wow - I just finished reading the restrictions - my favorite is the "10,000 copies" limit, as well as the continued prohibition against people under 13 years old. With "open" like this, who needs closed?
Re:Is this new? (Score:1)
Merger predictions (Score:1)
Re:So you can use the API, but OTOH... (Score:1)
Re:i love license agreements in editable text boxe (Score:1)
i love license agreements in editable text boxes (Score:5)
why yes, i do agree that Steve Case will do all my laundry for the next decade!
Oh boy... (Score:1)
Oh well, I guess we'll just do it again...
Someone needs to teach AOL what "Free" means, too; *my* IM client doesn't have BANNER ADS on it...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Re:What about contact lists and histories? (Score:2)
http://upsong.hypermart.net/format/icq.txt [hypermart.net]
ICQ2XML is just the kind of thing I'd love too, but I don't fancy coding it on my own.
Thought so too... (Score:1)
And here's Zico [slashdot.org] plugging alternative Microsoft technology.
Jacco (to e-mail me, please remove all yourclothes) /var/log
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Re:Thought so too... (Score:1)
Fair enough. Thanks for pointing this out.
Jacco (to e-mail me, please remove all yourclothes) /var/log
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Re:API has been available for a long time. (Score:1)
"Use of expat - XML Parser Toolkit in the ICQ End-User software is covered by the Mozilla Public License (MPL) version 1.1. The source code of expat - XML Parser Toolkit can be obtained at WWW.Mozilla.org"
Would seem to suggest that they're using XML for something...
Re:ICQ vs. AIM? (Score:2)
THIS IS NOT A PROTOCOL SPEC. (Score:1)
I would like a linux ICQ client that supported their new SMS thingy though....
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Re:SMS (Score:1)
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Re:Interest of Conflict (Score:4)
Some idiot lawmakers in the US passed a law making it illegal to store information about anybody under 13. Including, ironically, the fact that they're under 13.
The only way online services can protect themselves is to forbid anybody under 13 from using the service.
The only thing Americans can do to fix this is vote for better lawmakers [lp.org].
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What about contact lists and histories? (Score:2)
Re:What about contact lists and histories? (Score:2)
SMS (Score:1)
Re:Thought so too... (Score:1)
SOAP is only a pro-Microsoft thing insofar as they have done a lot of work on it while a lot of people have sat on the sidelines missing the big picture and yapping about inconsequential things. As for Bruce Schneier, his thoughts sound pretty outdated — I wonder if he's corrected them since then. See, people already can do funky stuff over HTTP that firewall users that aren't very clueful don't know about. SOAP's nothing new in that aspect. And a good firewall can filter that anyway.
Cheers,
Re:Thought so too... (Score:1)
Oh yeah, and if I were trying to plug something, I'd point to some more informative links than that InfoWorld article. It doesn't really seem like they get it. I only linked to it in case people had never heard of Hailstorm. Couldn't help but mention Hailstorm since the announcment tomorrow is the reason why AOL's doing this all of a sudden.
Cheers,
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
(1) They said users, not usernames. (2) You're free to go ask Media Metrix what their methodologies are. Reuters states that "The Media Matrix data measured only the number of people who used an instant messaging program." Doesn't sound like usernames to me. (3) I have no beef with you, but in the future, don't start off a post with "Uh, you *do* realize ..." and then later on try to come off as someone who's above flaming.
Cheers,
Why now? (Score:2)
Hailstorm and the panic mode that hit them when they realized MSN Messenger now has more users than AIM. They want to get ahead of the game and make sure that the same thing doesn't happen to ICQ.
Cheers,
AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:4)
This gets announced the day before Microsoft's Hailstorm [infoworld.com] announcment, where Microsoft starts letting out some details to show why AOL better get their act together. Combine that with the fact that MSN Messenger now has more users than AIM [cnet.com], and it sounds like AOL's begging for free help from the open source community to save them from Microsoft and Hailstorm.
Cheers,
Reverse-engineered (Score:1)
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
AOL opening something up?!?! (Score:1)
Naaaaah.
Robert Dumas (robertdumas@hotmail.com)
ICQ vs. AIM? (Score:1)
magic
maybe this (Score:1)
Nothing new - old news (Score:5)
Are you talking about http://www.icq.com/api/ ? Unless Mirabilis has changed something in the downloadable zip-file since my last visit, it doesn't look like something new has happened.
The ICQ API has been for download for quite a long time, really. I remember trying it out a 3-4 months, but the documentation was nearly non-existant. This link just points to their API, not any documentation, unless it's hidden in the icqapi.zip.
As for their license... yeah, I actually read it back then (I clearly remember the part about 10,000 copies), at that one hasn't changed either.
With "open" like this, who needs closed?
Who said it was open? :)
Working on it.... (Score:1)
Re:API has been available for a long time. (Score:1)
Re:Usefulness? HELL YES! (Score:1)
The problem with OSS is noboddy documents anything(Read: In general, some projects actually DO document their code, atleast up to 5 versions before the current), because there are no customer to satisfy when you don't sell your software. In the real world, if you don't have satisfied customers, they don't buy your product, and you go broke.
-H
Re:Instant Messaging Standardization (Score:1)
Contact me on my email, and lets get started anytime
-H
Re:Instant Messaging Standardization UPDATE (Score:2)
So I guess we just have to sit down and wait, unless you want to make an EEE on an old protocol, like Unix Talk?
-H
Re:Merger predictions (Score:1)
what's the point? (Score:1)
Second, the prohibition on 13 years olds is due to a rather silly law passed a couple of years ago, that the liar in chief managed to sign int he name of "protection" (in other words government trying to parent and butting into our lives further!)
It's rather dumb and pointless, I was using icq at the age of 12, and no harm came to me! I was using IRC, so on so forth at the age of 9! No harm came to me! I'm 17 and it hasn't damaged me, i was never molested...because i used commonsense and had parents who taught me such things, not because the government "protected" (sheltered) me!
UGH!
Derek Greene
Re:nothing new... (Score:1)
(I've written an ICQ clone, and looked into AIM, so I know what I'm talking about)
Re:are you kidding? (Score:1)
Just what we need.
License issues (Score:2)
Of course, AOL is based in VA, so I guess it makes some sort of sense...
This is old! (Score:1)
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
Re:SMS (Score:1)
Re:Instant Messaging Standardization (Score:1)
are you kidding? (Score:1)
I admit, I've never used AIM, but compared with ICQ, Messenger is a sleek and efficient program. If you can't stand Microsoft, admit it, don't slander Messenger for no reason.
-rt-
13 y/o (Score:1)
A Good ICQ Clone for Windows, Linux, Be, ETC (Score:1)
1: Programable Shortcut Keys (Including the "Double click on icon" Shortcut key which I use to my death - Ctrl-Shift-I)
2: Tab - Space sending! Would drive me crazy if it were any different!
3: Be able to get full user info INCLUDING THEIR IP! Starting servers and getting's people's FTPs is a pain without that!
4: Send through server and direct option as well as no character limit
5: Multiple away, online, na, dnd, occupied, and invisable modes with multiple message slots available
5: File and URL send and receive, plus menu integration where available
6: Not available in ICQ but saveable,backup-able and exportable History - I have ICQ messages that are very important that go back 18+mos right now and Ive lost much more then that!
7: Something similar to the "Message Archive" / Address book
8: Plug-in architecture for things like the post-it notes, and SMS messages, etc.
8: ICQ server mode (act as an ICQ server or even better - an ICQ gateway
9: I can live without the AIM like Message Mode but the option there would be nice
10: Ability to use colors and block out incoming colors
11: Better HTML integration then ICQ has (ie be able to paste HTML code in and have it render as a web page - ICQ kind of does that, its really really sloppy - copying and pasting from a web page brings up strange results)
12: Different sounds for different user incoming events as well as being able to turn off all sounds except say for the wife or something!
13: Email checking
Maybe its just me but those are the feautres I can not live without if they are already in ICQ or really would love to see if they are not!
Integration with other messaging systems would be nice - although I would see it as possibly being messy - but I bet it could be handled right. (I know people in aim that send like 3-4 word lines and scroll a lot - if that was coming in as its own message each time, I would get pissed).
If anyone knows of such a program for Linux and/or Windows please lemme know! I would try to write something like this except - I am not much of a programer at all!
Re:Interpolarity (Score:1)
Re:API has been available for a long time. (Score:1)
API has been available for a long time. (Score:5)
As for the protocol being XML based. It isn't if not we'd already know about it because all the ICQ clones would be using an XML based protocol instead of the ICQ protocol [nada.kth.se] (yes, it's available on the web).
Re:Useless (Score:1)
Sorry, but... (Score:1)
There are some windows clones:
Miranda ICQ - (http://miranda-icq.sourceforge.net/)
MyCQ - (http://www.mickem.nu/)
AnotherICQ - (http://nikosoft.free.fr/)
I guess they are not really what you are looking for. But hey, they are really small and starts up in no time.
Anyone know of any other clones for Win32, except Jabber and such?
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"I'm surfin the dead zone
So you can use the API, but OTOH... (Score:2)
here comes the spam? (Score:1)
This so-called API isn't one (Score:1)
Second, it isn't an API at all. It doesn't let you do anything, except some kind of remote-controlling of ICQ. What I wanted to do at the time was a PGP plug-in for sending messages, but with this "API", it's impossible. An example of what you can do with this API is sending a message from another program (using the dll), using ICQ. Note that ICQ must be installed for this to work, and even worse, the UIN of the person you're sending the message to must also be on the user's list (you can add it first of course, but you get the idea). It isn't an API at all, just a set of functions to remote-control ICQ. The specs are still completely closed, and this API is all but useless for doing anything with the ICQ protocol.
Jabber rocks (for and against) (Score:1)
Danish: mail- sms (Score:1)
BTW I just swapped to jabber. I like the idea of a serverbased system. It is easier to include icq/msn/aim (and perhaps sms) in the server once and for all, and let all the different clients benefit from it. This makes it easier to make a lot of different clients, so that everybvdy can have the functionality they want. Personally I looking forward for an emacs jabber to arrive.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:1)
http://www.govital.net/~soz/adbusters/index.html [govital.net]
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
(2) How did Media Metrix come by their numbers? The fact that 29 million is the number of paid accounts that AOL currently claims jumps out as either being (a) a coincidence, or (b) a misunderstanding on what exactly AIM is on the part of Media Metrix. Or perhaps the articles that have been written are taking the report out of context. The News.com article that I read the other day was vague at best, and yes, I did read it.
As far as (3) is concerned, I passed the point of engaging in flamewars with people online a number of years ago.
Thanks for your comments.
It's not really new... (Score:1)
Also look at statements like this, from their licence agreement: And this: Really, it's not a big deal at all.
Useless (Score:3)
So I can't use the API for a chat protocol to write a chat program. So what good is it?
AOL? Don't you mean... (Score:1)
Don't you mean AOL-Time Warner? Sad, but true. Soon, it'll be AOL-Time Warner-Creative-CBS-ABC-Microsoft-IBM-Compaq-Dell
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Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
Re:ICQ vs. AIM? (Score:1)
The agreement (linked in the article) also says Israelian law governs the specs (if you're not a citizen of the USA)
Not so fast... (Score:1)
First of all, the ICQ protocol has been well-documented. Look at this address: http://www.algonet.se/~henisak/icq/icqv5.html [algonet.se], for example. As far as I saw, it's quite a primitive UDP protocol which uses magic numbers for coding stuff.
Secondly, how do you think LICQ works? LICQ certainly's got more than 10K users, and it's out of the GPL to sign various NDAs (even liberal ones!).
Thirdly, it's been there for quite a long time, and I think it is to be taken off shortly. ICQ is becoming an adware, and I don't think they'll be so liveral for long.
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
Re:are you kidding? (Score:1)
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
Re:Interpolarity (Score:1)
Been there fore ages (Score:1)
I have had the ICQ developers kit for ages, and it has always had the restrictions mentioned. In other words there is nothing new about this SDK.
While its hardly an open protocol there are Open Source systems which can interoperate with it.
I am currently working with Jabber. This has a open architecture which allows ICQ, AOL, MSN, and other services to interoperate through the use of Jabber servers.
Re:So you can use the API, but OTOH... (Score:1)
The API itself is pretty limited. I was looking to provide a crypto system for it - but the API didn't allow for messing around with incoming or outgoing messages.
If you are looking at interacting with ICQ, download Jabber from Jabber.org. There is a server and client. This system can intereact with ICQ, and you can build your extended functionality without license restrictions.
The ICQ agreement simply means you can't use the API to reate competing clients. They don't really care about having exactly more than 10,000 users - but they don't want a cool application - of say over 1,000,000 users - not paying something for the use of the API.
Whoa! (Score:4)
Re:So you can use the API, but OTOH... (Score:2)
AOL making baby steps (Score:3)
In other words I think they are trying to release it so slow that it will not matter when they fully release it... but all the while releaseing just enough to keep the FTC happy.
A little too little too late (Score:1)
Also a good windows alternative client Miranda ICQ [sourceforge.net] has been in development for over a year (did I mention it's open sourced?). It has basic messaging without all the fluff and bloat.
Re:Interest of Conflict (Score:1)
(O/T) ESR's Sex Tips (Score:1)
"The most fortunate of persons is he who has the most means to satisfy his vagaries."
Well it's about time (Score:3)
"The most fortunate of persons is he who has the most means to satisfy his vagaries."
nothing new... (Score:1)
Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
But even if I don't create an account in it, will it still contact M$ and count as a installation, if so it is no wonder that it numbers is raising.
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Re:AOL's looking pretty nervous (Score:1)
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ICQ is already relatively open. (Score:1)
It's not even specs! (Score:1)
Silicon Summit II (Score:2)
So, why now are they now "openning" up ICQ? I'm sure they have some truly dark, deliciously evil plan...
Is this new? (Score:1)
IMunified (Score:1)
Harsh Israeli laws? (Score:1)
Ah, yeah. The laws in Israel can be sometimes harsh, but I have no idea how you can know this. (reasoning: israelis are ruthless people -> they have ruthless laws).
Now, seriously. "White-collar" offenses are treated in a somewhat strange (in my opinion, though, as, yes, you guesssed it, IANAL) way in relation to other criminal offenses. You see, such things as copyright violation mean up to 5 years in jail, while rape is up to 3 (?!!!), however, if a new law (labelled "The Der'i" law, since it is assumed to be made to free the political leader / white-collar offender Der'i from jail), may allow people who made white collar offenses to be released after serving half of the time for good behaviour (instead of 2/3).
How is this related to your remark? Well, it isn't, in any way. I am just annoyed when people make statements about stuff they probably know very little about (and especially about Israel).
Of course, if you're an Israeli lawyer then:
a. I'm sorry about this comment, I guess...
b. Ha ha ha good luck finding a job
Cool (Score:1)
Usefulness (Score:2)
Ironically Enough (Score:1)
I'm reading this story and I remember to turn my ICQ on. Oddly enough, it seems that ICQ is down right now. Their site [icq.com] is down as well as their connection servers.
Strangley this is also very close on the heels of the Ceo to CFO [geek.com] logs that have recently gone public, taken from ICQ logs. I would have to say they are having an all time bad day right now.
Re:maybe this (Score:1)
Instant Messaging Standardization (Score:1)
They may have documented the API's but.. (Score:1)
Re:Instant Messaging Standardization UPDATE (Score:1)
Interest of Conflict (Score:5)
This has to be one of the funniest and stupidest statements I've seen. For those who use ICQ/LICQ/MICQ/etc/etc when was the last time anything you did via the client was validated by the server. It sounds all good to parents and law makers who don't know any better, but my info states I'm about 12 years old, I live in Lithuania, etc., so much bogus information it'd make a wanted felon cry with envy. This is like (in my opinion) the case with some of these online cigarette companies, who were selling tobacco to kids under the age solely because they ordered with a credit card. Well sure if they have a credit card they must be legal, just don't verify they might have gotten the credit card number from their parents... Sure.... no need to verify, step right up for your Marlboros
I wonder how those who oppose Israel's (sometimes harsh) laws will feel about this. I think I'll go do some patent research and sue someone, anyone, for the sake of popularity.
vroom vroom [speedygrl.com]
Re:Usefulness (Score:3)
The API was not that very extensive either, and the code that was supplied was simply interfaces defining the methods, no code behind it.
Any slashdot readers that might find this code useful? I'm not entirely sure why it was even released, do they want people to make applications calling these methods?
Re:ICQ vs. AIM? (Score:1)
#47 [slashdot.org]: Wasnt it a Swedish company?
#63 [slashdot.org]: Nope, it was Mirabilis and they're Israelian
#85 [slashdot.org]: that's what he said, dipshit.
This is why you have to be careful when reading at a threshold of 1.
It's old (Score:3)
Why don't people actually check it out before debating what this all means in light of the FTC?!
This is no more open than the Microsoft Win32 API you can find on MSDN.
As for the submitter's questions about whether it uses SOAP and XML-RPC - why didn't you look at the API, with a 10-second look you can tell that it's just a Win32 DLL interface!
Interpolarity (Score:2)
Try this:
Open AIM.
Type in your ICQ number in the login name box.
Type in your ICQ password in the password box.
Hit connect.
The weird thing is you can't add people to your buddy list and you can't see AIM users. You *CAN* message ICQ users though...from AIM!
A bit strange eh?
Netscape (Score:1)