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Update on 'Blame Canada' and the Oscars 295

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-read dept.
ahassel writes, "The IMDB has a an update on the controversy regarding the profanity in the song from South Park. It seems that Trey Parker, et al will not censor their own song; they will leave that task to ABC. They also comment on the irony that they are asked to censor a song from a movie about censorship. There are now three words on the chopping block, including "fart," of all things. The original article from today's Washington Post"
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Update on 'Blame Canada' and the Oscars More

Update on 'Blame Canada' and the Oscars

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  • Censorship in other parts of the world... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You know, this kind of discussions is what makes us outside the US wonder what's up with that society you got there...

    (Directed to those who thing that a little swearwords will harm people... the rest of you, no offense)

    I mean, seems it's perfectly ok to blow people's heads off... but farts... now that's going too far.

    It's interesting to see how the diffences between how people judge this sort of content in different parts of the world. Here in Sweden, the age rating for South Park is seven year olds... even Kyle/Kenny/Stan/Cartman would get in.

  • Liberalism and dirty language (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Knowing how to say the word 'fuck' will not lead kids down the dark path to liberalism, nor will it turn them into democrats.

    This is an interesting statement, but I wonder how well you've thought it through. Let me ask you the same question in a slightly different way: do you know a liberal that does not swear? For years, psychologists have been trying to isolate the reason why people turn to liberalism and/or the Democratic party. And for years, the same liberal apologists have attempted to claim that liberalism is genetic, that some children are born predisposed to liberalism by virtue of their hereditary traits.

    Naturally, real scientists don't believe such garbage, and so the consensus is that liberalism is generally caused by a series of environmental factors, the largest of which is family environment. The lack of a strong central father figure often leads children to believe that their needs should be attended to be an outside entity; when they grow up and become politically mature, that belief manifests itself in a political orientation that calls for larger government. In addition, constant exposure to shocking language (such as the word that rhymes with "luck") often de-sensitizes children to other shocking societal problems such as abortion and homosexuality.

    So the result is a person that wants bigger and more intrusive government (and therefore higher taxes) and not only accepts but embraces the horrors of multiculturalism and infanticide. In other words, a liberal. So you can definitely say that there is actual scientific evidence that links swearing with liberalism. However, I doubt you'll accept it.

  • Strange concept (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Years ago I dug a record out of the 99 cent bin at the local grocery store. It had one song suggesting we would be better off if President Nixon would use words like shit instead of megadeath. How come the sensors don't take offense to "ethnic cleansing"? Do they still giggle like school girls when they hear someone fart? It's not like EVERYONE doesn't do it from time to time. I wish what to call a fart was the worst thing going on in my life. A rose is a rose.....
  • Hrm, I suggest you pull your head up on outta your ass. The TV-Ratings system is no where near as restrictive as the MPAA (thank god for that one). Case-in-point, the Friar's Club Roast of Jerry Stiller had more fucks-per-minute (FPM's) than any episode of south park I've ever seen, and it was only rated TV-14. That's right. Hell, watch COPS some time. Bleeps out the wazoo, and that's TV-PG. The TV-Ratings is just a suggestion whenever it comes to bleeped material. If you ever watch Tracy Ullman on HBO, I saw an episode where they said fuck, twice, unbleeped, and it was only TV-14...that might have been for the fact that it's on HBO, but then again it may not have. So, in summation, the TV-Ratings system is just a ploy of the *cringe* *spit* *puke* American Family Association.

    Dyslexic.
  • "art, bart, cart, dart, eeeart... Sounds good to me!"
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
  • but go figure, those are the ones they came up with.

    They? "They" is George Carlin. He sat down and thought about what words couldn't be said on tv. His seven words are the foundation of a supreme court ruling. Somehow his drug induced comedy routine is the basis of the supreme court ruling. At least he gets a good laugh out of it.
  • I, for one, would pay to hear that duet sing "Blame Canada."

  • I moderated you down as an off-topic troll, but then figured that a crude song from the 1940s was probably appropriate to this forum.
    This comment should undo it.
  • From the Washington Post article:

    ...specifically those that rhyme with "luck," "witch" and "tart."

    The only one of these three that does not have a negative connotation is luck. Bitch and witch can be used interchangeably. And tart, in a different context, is not a very friendly word. Couldn't they have used cart?

    You have got to wonder about newspaper editors sometimes.
  • "Original Song" is for music with words. "Duel of the Fates" would fall under the category of "Original Score." Other than DotF, the Phantom Menace score just wasn't that good...

  • I think there is insight in the message for the liberal moderators it is targeted towards. Most of them are so dumb they didn't think of that, and needed to have it pointed out.
    #define X(x,y) x##y
  • I don't know about Canada but I was born and lived in Italy for 30 years and I can confirm that USA is one of the countries with highest rate of censorship in the western world. How this is tollerated, even requested, in a land that poses so much importance on freedom of speech, it's a mistery to me. I used to joke about it and call USA the "Afghanistan of the western world" ;).
    Censorship is just another way of doing control and should not be tolerated by any true democracy.

  • What I'm hoping for is that someone like the independent novie chanel goes online. Thatway we could watch lowbudget (done for the love or fun of it) flicks like we listen to MP3s now.

  • Maybe next they'll paste a blotter over Mona Lisa's cleavage. If the Oscars are about honoring the best in Cinema and if they agree that a SouthPark song qualifies, they should'nt censor it.

    But we all know the truth. The best movie doesn't win at the Oscars. The most popular or lucrative does. I wouldn't be the first to point out that nominating SouthPark is more a tool to draw viewership from the Gen-X crowd than truely admitting that somthing so crude has real cultural value.

  • Please join me in singing "Blame Canada", the Fart Joke's Solidarity Front's theme song.
    --
  • What the fuck? A neutral object is hetersexual in nature? Isn't that an oxymoron? inanimate objects don't have a gender bias. Geesh.
  • Oh please. I was going to write a rebuttal, but it's not worth my time. I'm liberal because I don't have a strong father figure, and I'm gonna become gay. Yep, that's it.

    Jeff Sand
  • Actually sense you all are being anally (pardon the pun) technical, a gay man could donate his semen to a lesbian couple. So there is no third party "normal person" involved.
  • Well, I think that sometimes slashdot readers mistake really retarded opinions for trolls because they sometimes forget that there are a lot of really retarded people out there. :D

    Now THAT was a troll. *bows*
  • Just because someone is a homosexual doesn't mean that they can't be conservative in some ways. Most likely they don't agree with the extreme right (e.g. Christian Coalition), but that's not surprising, a lot of people don't. I am not in any way saying that Christianity itself is at fault, but the leaders of the CC such as Pat Robertson speak out against homosexuality. Pat Robertson's views however do not represent that of all Christians, despite what he may think. If you honestly have this narrow minded view that all Republicans are good little Christians then you are pretty naive. If all Republicans were united behind your so called "noble cause" there wouldn't have been so many different candidates running for the Republican nomination for the upcoming presidential election, most of whom had very different opinions. Not everything revolves around religion. I really hope you are just trolling.
  • Think trolling as in fishing. You throw out your bait (in this case an argument so silly that anyone who took the time to think about it would realise that no one could actually believe it) I really wish I could agree with that, but to assume that no one could actually believe it is saying that all humans are as reasonable as we are. And that's egotistical in itself to say that my opinions are more reasonable than theirs. However the solution is not to reply with posts like "You are a fucking idiot." etc. like some people tend to do. I don't know what to think sometimes when I see really bizarre posts. Sometimes the tone makes it more evident that it is just a troll/flaimbait/etc., but other times it really does sound like the person truly believes what they are posting, despite how insane it might sound to me or you. :/
  • Well, speaking as a Canadian, I can reassure you that from what I've seen, Canadians aren't offended by ``Blame Canada.'' Not even Anne Murray. :-)
  • It sucked in comparison, but the point was good.

    Besides, how can you top such an instant classic like Uncle Fucka?
  • Trey and MATT, dude... Dunno who Brad is. :-)

    I agree though, bleeping would do everyone good, including, as you mentioned, adding to it's comedic value.

    - 8Complex
  • They should just change 'bitch' to bich, 'cause bich is latin for 'generosity', and they should not say 'fuck' anymore. That'd suffice.
  • I certainly hope that this is meant as parody. "stepping stone words" leading to harder language?! Get real.

    Words are not now and have never been a problem. If a kid has trouble detecting what form of speech is appropriate for a particular time and place, that kid needs some educating. Knowing how to say the word 'fuck' will not lead kids down the dark path to liberalism, nor will it turn them into democrats.

    Again, get real.
  • The song makes fun of American parents, religious-right appropriateness freaks and the politically-correct-enabled. These folks would rather point a finger at ANYTHING, even something as innocuous as Canada, rather than take responsibility for their own actions.

    Remember Columbine? They blamed the Internet, Doom, Goth sub-culture, trench-coats, drugs, ADD, peer pressure, jocks... Few people asked: What are these kids parents like? What about school administrators and teachers? How did THEY treat these (arguably fucked up) kids?

    Several years ago, a kid killed himself. The kid was into heavy metal, so the parents came to the 'logical conclusion', and sued Judas Priest or Ozzy Osbourne, or some other 'artist' whose hm song suggested suicide.

    A couple months later, in a very quiet development, it turned out that the kids parents were both having affairs, going through a messy divorce, and using the kid to score points against one another. Yeah, it was Ozzys fault.

    So "Blame Canada" may be offensive to Canadians, but that's a bonus, not it's intention. :) It might as well have been "Blame Poland", but everyone knows lots of Polish jokes, so it wouldn't be funny. It could have been "Blame Israel", but frankly, the movie would have never gotten made. It could have been "Blame Elbonia", but you can't wage war against the Elbonians without involving Dogbert, and possibly Soctt Adams' army of rabid lawyers (though somehow, I think he'd go along with it).

    Blaming Canada is the right thing to do. They may not warp our fragile little minds as much as we'd like to think, but they must deserve it for SOMETHING. I mean, Brian Adams!! Ferchrissakes!!
  • It's all Peter Jennings' doing. Now that David Brinkley has retired, Peter can get away with pushing his Canadiocentric viewpoint on the US.
  • It's amusing how the only people who ever put out "what is the significance of age" arguements are people who are underage.

    That's because once someone turns 21 they figure they don't have to worry about it anymore and they forget about it.

    I'm 21 and I know there's a lot of bullshit out there...course it helps that my sister is just turning 16 and vents her frustrations to me.......
  • But we all know the truth. The best movie doesn't win at the Oscars. The most popular or lucrative does.

    Its all a conspiracy man. How else could "Shakespear in Love" beat out "Saving Private Ryan" last year.

    That made me lose all respect for the Oscars, and Catherine Keener's nomination for Best Supporting Actress cemented it. She played Maxine in "Being John Malcovich", a really dumb movie.....the only funny parts were hearing Cameron Diaz say "suck my dick!" and the scenes with Charlie Sheen musing on dead lesbian witches.

    That, and Billy Crystal is not, nor has he ever been, funny or a good host of the Oscars.
  • In the IMDB listing for South Park [imdb.com]:

    Mary Kay Bergman [imdb.com] .... Mrs. Cartman/Sheila/Female Body Part/Nurse/Mole's Mother/Little Girls

    I guess they didn't want to say "clitoris." It would probably have all of IMDB.com banned by the censorware.

    _________________

  • yeha i know, guess i'm gona have to take another look at my python code
  • find it odd that the newspaper felt it could not publish the word that rhymed with "tart"?

    *puzzled look* When, exactly, did this word become obscene?
  • Bitch and witch can be used interchangeably

    Ah, but it's not like there are many options:

    twitch,pitch,snitch,ditch,hitch are the only ones
    which come to mind ....
  • Man, what a total bastardizaton of that song...

    PS. Can I say bastardization on TV?

    For the song lyrics, see the following:

    http://www.beef-cake.com/interactive/lyrics/blulyr ics.html [beef-cake.com]
  • Conan O'Brien et al
  • But we all know the truth. The best movie doesn't win at the Oscars.

    With all the American Beauty nominations that might change.
  • Dan Rather is from Texas, so he doesn't qualify. Peter Jennings is from Ottawa, though, so he'd be fine.

    I'd also like to nominate Amanda Marshall or Chantal Kreviazuk to sing this song...not as well known in the States yet, but they're both at least as good Celine Dion or Sarah Maclachlan, and haven't we heard enough from them already?
  • Perhaps /. needs a new Score catagory of (Score: 5 Ironic)
  • They can do it. It's all up to them! M'kay?
  • Is it just me, or has the ability of the average Slashdot poster to discern humour from trolling stupidity fallen well below a healthy level since Jan. 1?
  • Switch, Stitch, Rich, Kitsch, Itch, Glitch

    Also Which, but that sounds like Witch

    Would titch qualify as a word, given that it's slang only people over 50 use? "Move that over, just a titch."

    Anyway...
  • Precisely so. The thing about artists and writers and creative people is that they have the license to create at their free will. If the Oscar people didn't like the song the way it is/was, then why did they nominate it?

    Furthermore, to censor the song would be to alter it from its original & pure state, and to thus make a new entity of it, a lesser entity that doesn't represent the inspiration of Trey's that made him make it.

    Darn upon censorship and those anal retentive peoples....
  • I thought it was funny, and I'm Canadian....

    Well, notice that it *does* make fun of Americans ... I mean, what the **** does our "hockey hullabaloo" have to do with Fatass having a potty mouth?

    I have never said "aboot" in my frickin' life, but then I *am* from the left coast.


  • Kinda makes you wish for an "unsend" button eh? Pretty funny stuff. :)
  • they dont say "fuck no", they say "heck no" =P just a technicality
  • NEVER sing blame canada in front of a croud of canucks. NOT A GOOD IDEA! (am now trying to get shoulder back in socket)
  • The above message contains no insight, just accusations.

    Insight requires, by definition, a revelation or some expository function. The above post merely states an opinion as fact with no supporting evidence. It barely makes sense.

    Don't be fooled.
  • Don't forget that the CRTC loosened the rules enough that you can run uncensored music on the radio, whenever the hell you want to, and television broadcasts don't have to be bleeped at all after 9. I was very surprised when my South Park tapes were full of bleeps.
  • Ever heard of a language barrier? Non-native english speakers don't always follow what you say exactly on the first try.
  • Hmm. Maybe in ten years time, the Iranians (with their new government now) will look at the US as the represive fanatics...
  • I apologize for any offense. That is what I was talking about. The older, conservative religous men who have recently been outsted from power by far less repressive leaders. At the same time, America has more repressive leaders gaining power.
  • Yeah, the CRTC has rules about Canadian content. Of course, we will be seeing the Oscars, the same as we do every year. Too bad they weren't being produced here though. There wouldn't be any issue of censoring or altering the lyrics of the song. God it's nice to live in a free country...
  • Ever since we lost the X-Files, Hollywood hasn't seemed that Canadian anymore.

    As it's not possible for it to be performed live, I suggest getting a medley of Canadian singers to perform the song. Just think of it:

    Anne Murray
    Rita McNeil
    Jim Carey
    Mike Myers
    Alanis Morrisette
    Geddy Lee, and the rest of Rush

    and of course, the one and only

    William Shatner

    And the whole thing could be introduced by Morely Safer or Dan Rather...

    Bravo for bringing the Great White North back to the forefront! :)

  • William Shatner is busy playing Homer Simpson.

    What would that sound like?

    "D'h...... OOOO AHH!"
  • I would point out that this was a PG-13 movie, even if they both need to be censored in order to appeal to network audiences. Wouldn't this be an actual real use of 500 channels, to broadcast two audio streams, one sanitized and one uncut? Hell, with enough synchronization, I bet you could do it through WebTV.

    Walt
  • The Guess Who, Eric Clapton, Paul Shaefer...

  • According to George Carlin's "Filthy Words" [interaccess.com] routine they are "shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, mother-fucker, and tits". Although, I don't think you're allowed to say asshole either.

    --

  • Blah (Score:2)

    by kuro5hin ( 8501 )
    Don't troll for me please. I'm perfectly happy getting my audience through word of mouth, but this is just lame. I don't need people wrecking slashdot on my behalf.

    And, besides, kuro5hin.org is *not* slashdot, and never will be. So if all you want is a replacement for /., you might be disappointed.

    The name won't be changing btw. It amuses me greatly to see people slowly learn how to spell it. :-)

    But please, I ask you, stop trolling. No one needs this.

    --

  • Just out of curiosity: which words are included in the seven?

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • What good does it do when TV/movie characters unleash a torrent of obscenity in front of children? Ask yourself that before you moderate me down. Thanks.

    This poster was completely serious and it's simply disingenuous to moderate it as "funny". Those responsible seek to discredit his view by laughing at him.

    Very well. It's clear from the responses to that post, that in this community at least the predominant view is the wishful thinking that small actions cannot lead to large consequences.

    But no-one is claiming that allowing the use of a mild expletive on TV is going to directly cause someone to murder or adopt a homosexual lifestyle. What the poster does claim is that every tiny antisocial behaviour which is legitimized inevitably lowers the barrier to adoption of the next tiny antisocial behaviour. Those who really want to be rude or insulting then have to go a little bit further to achieve that. Soon, that in turn becomes the norm and any would-be reprobate has to go further still. The process is therefore self-sustaining.

    Look at how over the course of the twentieth century, social rules have been progressively stripped away. Antisocial behaviours which were once unthnkable are hardly even frowned upon by most people nowadays. This increasing tolerance has had both positive and negative effects. With equality for women and racial minorities we no longer disenfranchise entire social groups, but as individuals we do treat each other with far less respect than we did a hundred years ago. Rules of social etiquette have almost completely disappeared.

    I am ashamed to admit that I have used profanity habitually ever since my childhood. My parents would frequently use mild swearing at home when I was small and I picked up the habit there. It made me feel grown-up to use such special "grown-up" words in the school playground and when my cousin made the naive mistake of telling me about the f**k and c**t words, I could hardly restrain myself from proudly displaying my "maturity" to my peers.

    As a direct result I was continually in trouble at school for swearing. Despite the negative consequences I have never been able to break the habit. Even now, at the age of 37 I still swear regularly and it must be inappropriate because sometimes I do offend people who were brought up under a stricter set of behavioural rules. It has even got me into trouble at work occasionally.

    So it may or may not be true that increasing tolerance in one area of life transfers to inappropriate levels of tolerance in other areas. But it's certainly true that allowing any bad language at all can ultimately lead to further use of even worse bad language.

    So perhaps what the poster should have said is: that to avoid a torrent of profanity we need to outlaw occasional use of mild expletives; to avoid murder we need to outlaw all selfish, disrespectful behavior; to avoid teenage pregnancy we need to outlaw unchaperoned contact; to avoid homosexual "families" raising children we need to outlaw all homosexual behaviour.

    This won't suit free speech advocates, gun freaks, horny teenageers or the gay community of course. Everybody wants to pursue their own self-gratification regardless of its negatives effects on themselves or everybody else. But even so it should be obvious to anybody from numerous extant examples of gradual social change over the course of the last hundred years that concept of "the thin end of the wedge" is more than just a metaphor and needs to be counted as a potentially huge cost of any small increase in personal freedom.

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • Wow, that was one of the funniest things I'd read all year. I can't believe that so many chumps thought it was serious. Must be because it's so late at night, and they're too drunk to get it.

    No wait, it's late here too and,... Yep, I've been drinking. Man, that was f*BLEEP*g funny!

    "Gateway swear-word"... Snicker! "The kids' swearing reflects badly on US" Bwwwahahahaha!!!! Oh s*BLEEP*t, it's so funny, I'm crying!!

    Thank you. Really. Haaa!
  • I think it would be most amusing to change the profane language to references to censorship. That would be much more appropriate than simply muting or toning down the language.
  • ^^;

    I almost didn't realize, either, until I got to the part where you start insulting the Canadians.

    -AS
  • Well, you can't just not play the songs because one song has naughty words in it. That isn't fair to other songs, really.

    And censoring it, IMHO, would be QUITE ironic especially when you consider that SP:BLU is all about exactly that: censorship, particularly in regard to naughty words. I *highly* suggest that you see this movie so that you know what I'm talking about. It's on video, and its been on PPV a few times, and you'll probably be able to catch it on premium cable before too long.

    Now, ABC can't air a song with naughty words due to FCC regulation (although censoring the word "fart" is highly questionable). I wonder if they can play the song after 10 p.m., but air the rest of the broadcast before 10 p.m.? The Oscars typically start at around 9 p.m. anyhow, so at least half the broadcast is after 9 p.m.

    Other than that, censoring with a BLEEP may be the only alternative, although it is not a tasteful one.

  • Contrary to the Washington Post article, the statement "no R-rated song has ever been nominated before" is not true.

    In 1986, the song Mean Green Mother From Outer Space [mindspring.com] from the movie Little Shop of Horrors [imdb.com] starring Rick Moranis and Ellen Green was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Song.

    Some of the original lyrics went like this:

    Ya don't know what you're dealin' with.
    No, you never did.
    Ya don't know what you're lookin' at,
    But that's tough titty, kid!
    ...
    I'm just a mean green mother from outer space,
    Gonna trash your ass! Gonna rock this place!
    ...
    You can keep the thing, Keep the it,
    Keep the creature, they don't mean shit!
    ...
    You better move it out! Nature calls!
    You got the point? I'm gonna bust your balls!
    ...


    When the song played on the Academy Awards show, they had modified the lyrics significantly. I don't remember exactly what the modifications were, but IIRC they eliminated each of the allegedly objectionable words above.

    I remember this clearly because it pissed me off that they sold out and censored this content in advance by going to the trouble to rewrite the song. The question stands... was the song heard on the show even the same song as was nominated?

    I agree that the song as written is what was nominated. If it is changed, then it's no longer the song that was nominated. I hope that Matt and Trey hold their ground on this one. Let ABC bleep it.

    And I hope that the Washington Post checks their facts a little closer.

    Russ
  • Human nature means you have to be very careful about bleeping. We tend to guess what would have been bleeped out, so they may not consider that helpful.

    There's then the problem that they (Trey & Matt) could bleep the song themselves, but bleeping entirely broadcastable terms. Human nature then thinks that something bad must've been in there to get it bleeped out, works out a possibility and the song is perceived as rather worse, despite not actually SAYING anything you wouldn't repeat to your grandmother.

    I can see why they might not want to use the bleeper.

    Greg
  • Spiner?!?!??! As in "Cmdr Data" Brent Spiner? Which voice was HE?!?!?!?!?!

    Hey Rob, Thanks for that tarball!
  • Wow. Would it have been that hard to get the real Conan? I can't imagine he'd cost more than Cmdr. Data!!!

    Hey Rob, Thanks for that tarball!
  • As a dual citizen Brit/Yank now living in the States, I feel uniquely qualified to talk about asses and arses.

    Us yanks don't call asses arses, nor do we call them bums although our northerly hoser neighbors do. An ass is an ass or a butt. Butt is probably milder, more like bum. A bum over here is someone who lies in the street peeing in his pants.

    I hope that cleared it up.

  • "bitch" (Score:2)

    by / ( 33804 )
    I never understood people's problems with the word "bitch". It's not officially one of the seven words, and yet I've seen morning-show-type shows where they bring in some lady from the American Kennel Club to talk about dogs, where they actually bleep out "bitch" when used to describe actual female dogs. The part of Carlin's routine where he talks about how you can get away with sentences like "In the morning, the cock crew" doesn't seem to apply anymore.

    Some of these words might be genuinely vulgar, but it hardly takes a vulgar word to express a vulgar idea, and I personally find most of primetime television to be in poor taste as it is.
  • I don't live in USA so I can hear 'bad' words on tv so I know this.

    When I was last across the pond a year and a half or so ago, I was flipping through the channels and came across a promo for South Park episodes they were going to start broadcasting within a week or so. The promo consisted of having one of the characters standing there swearing with the swears bleeped out. The shock value was entirely lost on me, since I had just finished watching a show with fully uncensored profanity and was able to switch the channel to another show with full frontal nudity.

    What passes for much of American entertainment, especially when taken out of context and in another land, is simply pathetic.
  • Clooney's participation should come as no surprise, inasmuch as he previously did [imdb.com] the voice of sparky the dog in the "Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride" episode. He's been pals with Matt and Trey for a few years now and has supported them and their careers since the beginning.
  • BTW, what kind of regulation is there of Canadian TV on the "obscenity" front? I know they're much more liberal than the U.S. but I don't think they're quite as liberal as, say Brazil, are they? (in Brazil you could make a Coke commercial of a woman masturbating with the bottle and they wouldn't give a hoot, nudity is used in commercials all the time)

    Well, nudity certainly isn't mainstay, but I have seen it recently in a Made-For-TV-Movie on CTV, (The Girl Next Door), however it aired at 10PM and there was a disclaimer right before that segment. It's not unheard of to hear people totally go off on a swearing spree in Canadian shows, and they don't usually censor movies played on TV. Fuck, Shit, Ass, Bitch, I have heard pretty much all of them on Canadian TV during prime time without disclaimers.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • Wha? Whats going on here? Do we need censorship? Cartman was right. What's wrong with fuck? Why do we need to *bleep* every word that might infect childrens minds? Parents complain saying that their kids shouldn't hear those words. Then they go off, when they are mad, and feed the words to the face of the kid when they blow their top or start arguing.

    Right. Anyone claiming to be offended by a particular "profane" word is a hypocrite. Seriously. If you know the word, then the profanity exists within you already. If you know what the word "fuck" means, then any "offense" you may feel is a reaction to the profane knowledge you already possess. If you don't know what a word means, or if it has no profane connotations for you (for instance, Americans using the Commonwealth swear words "bloody" and "shag" without the associated offensive intent) then it's not profane. Little Timmy is not going to be warped by hearing the word "fuck", and more than he would be hearing the same idea in a foreign language.

    Realistically. What makes the damned words bad? For example. Shit. Usual meaning: poo. So, if i say "poo" to someone, does that make it an offensive word?

    An even better example: you can use any number of swear words on TV if they're in a language most viewers won't know. Schmuck and putz are OK, even on shows where calling someone a dick wouldn't be acceptable.

  • Almost, but not quite. Carlin's "Seven Deadly Words" are:

    Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits"

  • and tits doesn't even belong on the list

    No, not in current usage, but back when Carlin came up with his list (1970s) it most definitely was. Of course, Carlin himself had a later routine about all the swear words he had forgotten to include. But his "seven words" became canonical when a Pacifica radio station played his bit and was slapped by the FCC. It went all the way to the Supreme Court, if I'm not mistaken.

  • Wha? Whats going on here? Do we need censorship? Cartman was right. What's wrong with fuck? Why do we need to *bleep* every word that might infect childrens minds? Parents complain saying that their kids shouldn't hear those words. Then they go off, when they are mad, and feed the words to the face of the kid when they blow their top or start arguing. Realistically. What makes the damned words bad? For example. Shit. Usual meaning: poo. So, if i say "poo" to someone, does that make it an offensive word? Eh, you remark? For the song Blame Canada, fart doesn't need censored. Fuck and bitch SURPRISE! don't appear in the song more than twice (once my boy had my picture on his shelf, now when I see him, he tells me to fuck myself) each. Well. My rantings are done. Blame Can... Soccer Moms! SOMEONE FIX EXTRANS!
  • I've always liked John Williams' work, although he hasn't done anything really innovative lately.
    From TPM soundtrack, the music is definitely more complex than the original Star Wars, but I don't think any of it needs to be Oscar nominated.
    That's not to say I don't like John Williams-- he just hasn't done anything recently that made me go "oh, wow, that's really cool." He developed his trademark "fanfarish" sound in the 80's, but since then it hasn't changed much. His style is a meld of lots of other composers with not much added, except the ability to create melodies that stick in your head, which isn't easy to do. Duel of the Fates sounded a hell of a lot like Carl Orff.

    I know that innovative music isn't exactly a high criteria for the oscars, and there are some tracks on the TPM soundtrack that I really like.
    Duel of the Fates is nice in that it builds on one simple theme.
    Anakin's Theme is nice with the way he worked in the touch of the dark side towards the end.
    Track 5 (Sith Spacecraft) is great for showing off my Klipsch Promedia speakers.
    So... what movie scores do I like for being unique, different, and/or highly effective?
    The Fifth Element
    The Truman Show
    Braveheart
    Aliens (James Horner's creepy side)
  • Kyle's mom's a bitch
    She's mom is a big fat bitch
    She's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world
    She's a stupid bitch if there ever was a bitch
    She's a bitch to all the boys and girls

    On Monday she's a bitch
    On Tuesday she's a bitch
    On Wednsday through Saturday she's a bitch
    Then on Sunday, just to be different, she's a superkinkamayamayabeeatch

    Have you ever met my friend Kyle's mom?
    She's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world
    She's a mean 'ol bitch and she has stupid hair
    She's a big big big big big gig bitch
    Big big big big big big big bitch, she's a stupid bitch
    Kyles mom, she's a big fat fucking biiiiiiitch

    Big old fucking bitch ass mooooom
    Yeah
    Chaaaa

    I really don't have a point, but I couldn't pass up the chance to use the word bitch a dozen times and not be offtopic!)
    _________________________

  • If an Oscar-worthy song has BLEEP after BLEEP, then maybe, just maybe, a few more people will take the time to think about what censorship is, and who is trying to protect whom from what.

    That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw a live performance of Dr. DRE and Eminem on the American Music Awards on ABC a month ago (I believe it was the AMAs..too many award ceremonies to tell apart). It was quite impressive , they had on-the-fly censoring of their live performance for people watching on tv. They did such a good job that often the next 2 words after an explative were also bleeped out, rendering the song unlistenable.

    I have also noticed that censored versions of albums (Fatboy Slim, Korn, etc) are oftentimes $2-3 cheaper than their unedited counterparts.

    Don't let censors take over America. We'll listen to what we want to hear.
  • Anyone else think network censors have outlived their usefulness? In a society where you can just turn to cable and find gratuitous sex or violence (or better yet sex AND violence) any time day or night, is keeping a few obscenities off the airwaves really doing anyone (except maybe the cable people) any good?
  • We're just as free as you, we just have more anal retentive people ;) If there were organized boycotts of advertisers and junk like that in Canada, I'm sure you'd see more black bars and hear more bleeps...

    Esperandi
    BTW, what kind of regulation is there of Canadian TV on the "obscenity" front? I know they're much more liberal than the U.S. but I don't think they're quite as liberal as, say Brazil, are they? (in Brazil you could make a Coke commercial of a woman masturbating with the bottle and they wouldn't give a hoot, nudity is used in commercials all the time)
  • Don't worry, there's a coalition in the Canadian governmnet that makes sure that Canadian TV is not soiled by American thoughts and things, I would guess this Oscar broadcast won't reach any Canadians...

    Esperandi
  • I find it rather amusing that this song could be a source of censorship, when all throughout the movie it is constantly renouncing the idea of censoring.

    Trey Parker must be laughing his irreverant butt off at the whole situation... ABC -> "Yeah, could you make your song that pokes fun at the idea of censorship and remove everything offesnive so we can air it on TV?" ... Oh boy...

    Is it just me, or is the hypocricy in the situation just a bit too stifling ? ...

    -Dextius Alphaeus
  • Censorship on a word like fart?

    This in light of the new law being proposed in Alabama requireing kids to refer to teachers as sir and ma'am
    There seems to be a huge "traditional" movement in this country looking to enforce obedience. Wasn't this type stuff reserved for religious governments like the Ayatola in Iran?!

    Visit uMoo - http://www.uMoo.com/ [umoo.com] like Slashdot, just funnier...
  • what good is profanity? What possible purpose does it serve?

    What good will come out of locking up your children in a dream world where everyone is happy and no one ever says something bad or something that criticizes the standard. I'll tell you (since this is a rhetorical question).. nothing. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

    What good does it do when TV/movie characters unleash a torrent of obscenity in front of children?

    When I hear the *beeep* I always try to figure out what they really said (which is not so hard most of the time, which is partly due to that they put the beep in at strange times.. someone says 'f..*beeeeeep*.k' and with not so advanced lipreading you can get the middle part). Had they just said the word I wouldn't have noticed it equally much.
    I don't live in USA so I can hear 'bad' words on tv so I know this.
    Kids aren't dumb, even if people like you seem to think so "if we don't let them see/hear this, they'll never know what it means!", they'll notice that it's something special with theses words, and especially when the adults around them look really scared and worried when they utter them. And almost all kids will do exactly what you tell them not to do.

    I think that this 'ban all the nasty words' crusade has failed and only created more of them.
    A part of the success for South Park is that they use language not seen in other shows, and that the kids are evil (why are always kids portrayed good? Everyone who's visited/attended an elementary school the last decade knows better. Well except in "Kids" but that's on the same theme). Not saying that SP is bad, but I don't think it would have been as successful if there was alot of other shows similar to it in content.


    ps. what's so radical about getting pregnant? All mothers have...
  • I believe they are - fuck, shit, piss, cunt, tit, cocksucker, motherfucker.

    of course motherfucker is redundant of fuck and piss and tit make no sense whatsoever, but go figure, those are the ones they came up with.

    here's a solution if you don't want to bleep - just dangerouly them. As I recal, comedy central, which usually bleeps, let Johnny Dangerously play with all the "farging iceholes" and "cork-suckers" intact.

    -Kahuna Burger

  • The fact that 'Blame Canada' was nominated in the first place shows that people are becoming more realistic towards language and censorship in the Movies.

    Tiny steps people. Take tiny steps.

    Jailbrekr
  • I'm not trying to flame, but does anyone else think that 'Blame Canada' was one of the weaker songs of the movie? I mean, 'Uncle Fucker' was a million times funnier (not that I expect them to nominate this one for an Oscar!).

    Thoughts?
  • Censorship issues are often fraught with irony. In the early 1990s a California high school actually handed out copies of Ray Bradbury's Farenheit 451 to students with all the "hell"s and "damn"s blacked out. To be honest the only resonable incident of censorship I ever heard of was some teacher banning the Cabbage Patch Kids books because of poor grammar.

  • Re:Thats what a bleeper is for (Score:3)

    by Amphigory ( 2375 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @08:30PM (#1226966) Homepage
    Call me crazy, but I tend to think they have a right to ask for anything.

    Now require... That's another question.

    --

  • Thats what a bleeper is for (Score:4)

    by Gleef ( 86 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @07:40PM (#1226967) Homepage
    ABC has a right to control what they broadcast. They can bleep out the offending part, they could even cut to commercials for the entire award that Blame Canada is up for. I doubt they have a right to tell the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences [oscars.com] how they must conduct their awards ceremony. They certainly don't have a right to ask Trey & Marc to change their song.

    ----

  • How Truly Ironic (Score:4)

    by Hrunting ( 2191 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @04:43PM (#1226968) Homepage
    Has it dawned on anyone else that the most offensive part of that song isn't the language it contains ('fart', whatever), but the fact that it completely ridicules Canada? I mean, honestly, if ABC is worried about offending people, why is it concerned with the word 'fart'? Their own shows contain such words as 'bitch', 'ass', and 'fart' regularly (The Drew Carey Show, Whose Line Is It, Anyway, Spin City, et al). For a network concerned about offense, they have the potential to do it regularly. The fact that Canada, the country the song is most likely to offend (both because it makes fun of Canada and because Canadians obviously are sensitive about their big flapping heads, beady little eyes, and tendency to mispronounce simple English words) is a significant of ABC's viewership seems not to have dawned on any of their directors.

    I'd say they were sitting around farting, except that their heads are all up their *bleep*.

    NOTE: I have censored myself to protect Slashdot's younger viewers from potentiall reading bad words like 'ass'.

  • The BLEEP is exactly wha is needed. (Score:4)

    by jabber ( 13196 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @07:51PM (#1226969) Homepage
    Amen! Preach on Brother!

    If the song gets aired but is self-censored, then a whole dimension of WHY it's great will be lost.

    If they (ABC) omit the song because of it's content, then the mind-police win, and the uninformed viewer will miss the humor, and the point of the song (and SP as a cultural icon).

    If they (ABC again) play the song unedited, they will torque-off many parents, religious groups and other purists, and make for a lot of bad publicity. While there is no such thing as bad publicity, there is advertiser retribution (see backlash against ABC after Ellen 'came out'), and ABC wouldn't do well if it's major advertisers suddenly stopped paying for ads, no?

    The best, and last option is to play the song as it was written for the movie, but BLEEP it as necessary (if not more than necessary for comedic effect). This will keep the advertisers and the Falwells satiated since ABC will obviously "Think of the Children" :). It will keep the kiddies from hearing the swear-words. It will make Trey and Brad happy since they won't have to bastardize their creation. AND the adults will be able to fill in the blanks for themselves, and either see the humor of gutter-mouth cartoons and ironic lyrical situations, or not.

    Using the BLEEP will expose what is considered to be profanity without actually showing what is considered profanity. Personally, I think that "Blame Canada" wouldn't make the point as well as "Don't say shit, say poo", or better yet the "Cartman's Mom is a ..." song, since every other word in that song would get the BLEEP, but still...

    If an Oscar-worthy song has BLEEP after BLEEP, then maybe, just maybe, a few more people will take the time to think about what censorship is, and who is trying to protect whom from what.

  • Taking a Stance (Score:4)

    by DgtlGhost ( 155814 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @04:20PM (#1226970)
    I'm not a huge fan of South Park, but damn, I'm glad to see this. Parker has every right to refuse changes made to HIS song. If the Oscar people want it to be used, they should expect that the song they nominate will be the one that gets played.
    How hypocritical are these people? Do they not see that by honoring South Park, either as a bastion of irreverent comedy, as a movie with exceptional lyrics and music, or most likey as a comercial success that refuses to be ignored, they are taking it for what it is. The one thing I have always liked has been the unwillingness of it's writers to back down from a subject or joke just because it wasn't PC. That's the whole damned point.
    Honestly, if Trey had rewritten it to be anything other than MORE offencive, I would have been upset, and very shocked....

    -Earthman

  • ABC is protecting American Families (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03, 2000 @04:30PM (#1226971)
    ABC has a long history of trying to "do right" by American families, so it is not surprising that they are going to edit out some of the material in that filthy song. Similarly, Slashdot readers have a long history of not caring about American families at all, so it is not surprising that these actions are being held up to ridicule by them. No offense intended, but most Slashdot readers are either teenagers or college students, and these people wouldn't have the first clue of what it's like to raise a family in today's world.

    When ABC and the Academy move to block words like "fart", anti-family groups (such as the majority of the Slashdot readership) are quick to lash out. What they don't realize that words like "fart", while they seem harmless, are in fact "gateway" words, or "stepping stone" words that eventually lead children to experiment with harder profanity, such as the other two words described in this article (the word that rhymes with "witch" and the word that rhymes with "luck.")

    Pretty soon you end up with kids that have a real swearing problem, and they end up being labeled as cussards and reprobates. And eventually, those labels end up circling back to us, the parents, and it tells people that we're not doing a good job. Not only that, but kids with swearing problems often end up in a downward spiral that involves them with crime (theft, etc.) and other forms of social radicalism (homosexuality, pregnancy/abortion, liberalism, etc.)

    What ABC is doing is attempting to protect children. And that's what it's all about. We must stop dirty language from reaching our children's ears. The students and "young'uns" here on Slashdot might ridicule this notion, but ask yourself, honestly: what good is profanity? What possible purpose does it serve? What good does it do when TV/movie characters unleash a torrent of obscenity in front of children? Ask yourself that before you moderate me down. Thanks.

  • There's a subtle difference here... (Score:5)

    by Masem ( 1171 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @04:26PM (#1226972)
    While I am all against censorship, (and I admit not having a chance to see SP:BLU yet, but I certainly plan to!), I think that ABC does have a right here. And it has to do with the push nature of television.

    With SP the show or the movie, you are well informed of the upcoming profanity in the show. If you are a parent, you should be changing the channel at that point if you don't want your kids to watch it. You don't have to take them to the movie, and everything else. Again, there are plenty of disclaimers and they make sense here.

    Take the Oscars broadcast; the average person does not know anything beyond the top 5 or 6 awards (movie, actors, supporting actors, etc), so they will NOT know that a song with profanity will be in the works. In addition, the Oscar broadcast has generally been PG, at work; making the entire 2+ hr broadcast a TV-M first means that it can't be aired until after 10pm, and second, they will lose viewers. They (ABC) have no choice to do *something* about Blame Canada.

    That said, I would think that a better way for ABC to handle it is to drop the musical numbers for all songs, such that they don't have to worry about playing it, but not play any of the others, as to be fair. Rewriting the song to avoid censoring is IMO a bad choice, as that can ruin the effect of the song in the first place.

  • The Spirit of Conservatveness (Score:5)

    by shroom ( 5839 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @06:26PM (#1226973)
    So let me get this straight. If someones hears the word "fart", bleeped out, it's going to turn them into a homosexual, get them pregnant, make them a liberal? Oh my gosh...

    All: In the beginning, God created the Earth...

    Stan: Wait a minute, aren't you a Democrat, Kyle?

    Kyle: Yeah, I think so

    Stan: You're supposed to be liberal and support civil liberties!

    Kyle: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press

    Stan: (interrupting) That amendment sucks!

    Cartman: Yeah, freedom of speech sucks!

    Kyle: Don't you censor me, fat boy!

    Cartman: Don't call me fat, buttfucker!

    Kyle: Then don't belittle my freedom, you fucking fatass!

    Cartman: God dammit, don't call me fat, you buttfucking sonofabitch!

    [Pat Robertson decends from the sky]

    Stan: Holy shit, it's Pat Robertson!

    Cartman: What are you doing in South Park, Pat?

    Pat Robertson: I come spreading conservative Christian values.

    Kyle: Oh, fuck! I'm sorry, Pat!

    PR: Fear not, a hurricane will kill you and all the homosexuals later. I am looking for a place called The Oscars.

    Stan: We can take you to the Oscars, in fact, we're nominated!

    [They start walking]

    Cartman: Dude, this is gay.

    Stan: Dude, don't say gay in front of Pat Robertson.

    Cartman: Aw, fuck you.

    [They all travel to LA, where Trey Parker is picketing at the Shrine Auditorium]

    Stan: This is it, who are you looking for?

    PR: Him! [points to Trey Parker]

    Trey: So, we meet again, Pat Robertson.

    PR: You are turning this country into a cestpool of homosexuals, liberals, and anti-Christian bigots!

    Trey: And you have attacked the freedom on which this country is based!

    PR: You have taken the Lord's name in vain for the last time.

    Trey: My movies bring happiness to people around the world.

    PR: I'm here to put an end to your blasphemy

    Trey: This time we finish it. [stands] There can be only one.

    Stan: Dude, this is pretty fucked up right here.
    [Pat and Trey fight]
    Kids: Go Trey! [Pat looks at them] Uh, go Pat!

    [Pat and Trey fight more, Mortal Kombat style.]
    Kyle: Oh my god! They killed Kenny!

    Pat: Boys, help me put an end to him once and for all.

    Trey: No, boys, help me, so that I can put an end to him.

    Pat: God is watching you, boys. You know who to help.

    Stan: I don't know what to do, dude. Who should we help?

    Cartman: I say we help Trey Parker.

    Kyle: Eh, you're just saying that because he made you famous.

    Cartman: Hey! I don't need to take that kinda shit from a liberal.

    Kyle: You're such a fat fuck, Cartman, that when you walk down the street people go God DAMMIT that kid's a BIG FAT FUCK.

    Cartman: Oh yeah? Well listen up...

    Stan: Wait, wait, just a second. Now we've got to think here. Now let's see. What would Brian Boitano do?

    Cartman: Yeah. What would Brian Boitano do?
    [Brian Boitano appears.]

    Brian: Did someone say my name?

    Cartman: Brian Boitano!

    Kyle: What incredible irony!

    Cartman: Yeah, it's Brian Boitano!

    Brian: What's going on, kids?

    Stan: Okay, Brian? Who would you help in a fight, Pat Robertson or Trey Parker?

    Brian: Kids...you shouldn't think of things like that. The Oscars are the one time of year when we all try to get along, no matter what we believe in. This is the season just to be good to each other. Bi-eee!
    [Brian skates away.]

    Pat: You fuckin' liberal!

    Trey: C'mere! Come on!

    Stan: Hey, Pat! You have to understand that Trey is keeping the spirit of your religion alive by bringing humor and attention to the evils of Satan and Hell.

    Kyle: Yeah. And Trey, you need to remember that if it weren't for Pat, You wouldn't have a Religious Right to make fun of!

    Trey: You're right kids. I'm sorry, Pat.

    Pat: No, no. It's me who should be sorry. I've been a right bastard. I'm sorry Parker.

    Trey: Thank you boys.

    Pat: Yeah, thank you boys. Come on, Parker, I'll buy you an Orange Smoothie.

    Trey: oooo!

    Stan: *whew* That sucked.

    Kyle: Yeah, but just think. Today we actually met--we actually spoke--to _the_ Brian Boitano.

    Stan: Yeah. And you know? I think I learned something today, it doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democratic or Liberal or Conservative. The Oscars still is about one very important thing:

    Cartman: Yeah, ham.

    Stan: No not ham, you fat fuck!

    Cartman: Fuck you!

    Stan: The Oscars are about something much more important.

    Kyle: What?

    Stan: Money.

    Kyle: Ah.

    Stan: Don't you see, Kyle? Money.

    Kids: "Blame Canada, blame Canada, with all their beady little eyes..."

    Jeff Sand
    shroom@NOSPAMbradley.edu

  • Reagan Sucks (Score:5)

    by cje ( 33931 ) on Friday March 03, 2000 @06:09PM (#1226974) Homepage
    NOTE: I have censored myself to protect Slashdot's younger viewers from potentially reading bad words like 'ass'.

    This reminds me of a stunt the Miami Herald pulled several years ago. One Sunday, they refused to run Berke Breathed's "Bloom County" comic strip because it contained the phrase "Reagan Sucks." To explain to readers why the comic was missing, a brief letter was put in is place explaining that the paper was not running the comic because it contained the phrase "Reagan Sucks" (that's right, they printed the phrase verbatim.)

    Some time later, after several puzzled letters to the editor had been received, the Herald ran an editorial which again explained that the comic had been pulled because it contained the phrase "Reagan Sucks." Apparently, it simply did not dawn on them that they had used .. multiple times .. the very phrase that they intended to censor from the "Bloom County" strip.

    Anyway, the last line of your post made me think of that. Let's see if a conservative moderator moderates this down simply because it has a subject line reading "Reagan Sucks." :-)

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