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Above.net Blackholes, Unblackholes Macromedia
from the I-didn't-know-they-could-do-that dept.
This is a sequel to last December's article, MAPS RBL is now Censorware. For the (very) long version of how the RBL works, and how it sometimes fills the same role as "filtering" software, go take a peek.
The short version is that a small group of anti-spam crusaders called MAPS publishes the RBL, which many ISPs subscribe to. Those ISPs block mail to and from addresses on the RBL list.
Some subscribers, notably the backbone provider Above.net, whose CTO is a MAPS co-founder, use the RBL to block not only mail but all internet traffic from IPs listed by RBL. Thus, to cleints of these providers, sites deemed to deliver spam -- or merely deemed spam-friendly -- just drop off the net.
That CTO/co-founder is Paul Vixie, author of Vixie cron and BIND and all kinds of good stuff. He makes some interesting observations about censorship in a 1997 SunWorld interview.
I checked the RBL's servers Thursday night and found that two of
Macromedia's IPs were actually blocked.
postal.macromedia.com was blocked, which makes sense for
stopping spam; presumably that's where the spam emenates from.
But the other IP blocked was www.macromedia.com, which
is of course their Web address. Blocking this address, I would assume,
stops no spam from reaching anyone's inbox.
What it does do is get Macromedia's attention. Because Above.net blocks all traffic and is a major backbone provider, being put on the RBL effectively takes a site off the net for many users. Taking down a big corporation's website is a good way to show you mean business.
(Above.net's abuse department said I would have to talk to public relations, but their PR contact did not return repeated phone calls.)
I spoke with a Macromedia spokesperson both last week and today. She confirmed that "there were two addresses blocked, one of which resulted in users worldwide not being able to access the website." She also repeated several times that they were on the RBL for their email newsletter "the Edge," saying it "does have an opt-in model, that does not spam."
She also pointed out that "worldwide access to macromedia.com has been restored." That access happened sometime Thursday night or Friday morning. Our Slashdot submissions about the downed site came in on Thursday, and I confirmed the IP numbers' presence on the RBL Thursday during the day.
I've contacted several people at MAPS, but they had no comment and (per their policy) refused to tell me how long those IPs had been on the RBL.
The
rationale
for the RBL is that it tries to "prevent ... our paying, in money and
resources and our own time, to receive and process, or relay, traffic
which is nonconsensual in nature." (Their emphasis.) What is
"nonconsensual" about reading Macromedia's website?
Why was www.macromedia.com on the list?
I'm only running this story because it's Macromedia. After all, one it's of the larger sites on the net, home of Flash animation among other things. If it can be quietly removed from a chunk of the net, who can't? (If you noticed Macromedia missing last week, post a comment!)
Take a moment to go read that stealth blocking statement, issued last week. I signed as a member of the Censorware Project; other signatories were the ACLU, CPSR, EFF, and EPIC. We're concerned that, as the statement says:
ISPs that practice "stealth blocking" are violating consumer protection principles and restricting user choice and freedom in cyberspace.
What do you think?
Noticed the problem, didn't notice the reason (Score:5)
<P>
The important part is that I had no idea why Macromedia's site wasn't responding. Presumably due to some kind of legitimate, undesired situation on their end somewhere. I never would have expected this to be the reason.
<P>
All this blocking by MAPS and Above.net resulted in was me, a user who has never received e-mail from Macromedia, being unable to do what I wanted to. Neither my employer or me are Above.net customers, nor are we users of MAPS. We had no idea of what was going on (that it had been blocked due to "spam"), and we were not in favor of the action being taken.
<P>
Nevertheless, we were affected by the actions of MAPS and Above.net, as were Macromedia. That isn't very acceptable to me. Is this supposed to be for my own good?
Re:People need to pull there head out.... (Score:4)
Readers said the same thing last December; go check the story MAPS RBL is now Censorware [slashdot.org], its updated section, the information about the BGP and so on.
Trust me on this. I read it very carefully in December: some ISPs use the RBL to block all traffic, not just mail. Not all ISPs. But one ISP is enough, if that ISP is a major backbone provider [above.net].
Jamie McCarthy
Re:RBL getting out of hand... (Score:5)
I did. I saw documentation of one statement of one incident from one person alleging spam from Macromedia. Perhaps there were more somewhere, but I did not see them. I would really like to go back and read exactly what it said, but when I asked MAPS if I could link to it or just read it for myself, they said no.
MAPS removed their documentation from public view when they took the site off the RBL -- and in several communications with them, they made it clear that (although they presumably had this information archived somewhere) they would refuse to let me look at it again.
Correct. This is because Above.net and MAPS were unavailable for, and refused to, respectively, comment.
I am not sure why you say that. Thursday, I checked the RBL and these were the only two IPs that were blocked (I spot-checked up and down from those two to see if others nearby were blocked; nope).
As Bennett Haselton wrote me when I asked him about this:
Jamie McCarthy
Re:OK, a couple of things... (Score:5)
You completely missed the point. Macromedia's mail server and web server were separate. Their mail server was blocked for alleged spam, OK, fine. But their web server, on a totally different IP number, was deliberately targeted for blocking anyway.
postal.macromedia.com 216.35.148.39
www.macromedia.com 216.35.148.103
Since (presumably) no spam comes from the webserver, the only point of putting it on the RBL is to annoy Macromedia by having the BGP-subscribed backbone providers like Above.net cut off their web traffic.
-1, Redundant :)
The submittor sent that in, I didn't edit it, we generally do very light editing of submissions (grammar and spelling, if anything).
Jamie McCarthy
Re:RBL is opt-in (Score:4)
Consumers have the choice of moving to a provider that doesn't opt-in if they desire to.
Someone always raises this. This would be fine if this was just mail blocking, but this is total IP traffic blocking if you happen to route via above.net. Usually you have little choice as a consumer on who your ISP routes through, and your ISP often has little choice too -- what if above.net is a backup route, and ___Net is down today, so you get filtered IP access? In addition, most ISP's are loathe to disclose routing information, so you have to get what you can from traceroute, and have no idea if above.net is a backup route.
You are missing the whole point in your post -- probably due to not reading the whole article -- in this case, it wasn't just a matter of RBL blocking email. It was a matter of censored access to www sites.
"common carrier" status lost (Score:5)
Re:I think.. (Score:3)
No, you did not think.
So, you believe that your ISP can freely, and clandestinely block anything from you without your permission?
So, you'd be fine if they started secretly blocking slashdot, and didn't let you know right?
If you had _read_ the issue, you would know that the issue is NOT the blocking, but the clandestine blocking, that is the issue. if an ISP wants to say 'we blovk all traffic from the foo domain', that is just fine (and was NOTED IN THE ARTICLE).
Why? Because they told their customers about it. if thay had not done so, that woudl be bad. in this case, Above.net was doing it _SECRETLY_.
Try strapping your legs down so your knees don't jerk them around like that so much.
And backbone providers should _never_ do the blocking. Let the final ISP do it.
In this case, Above.net's policy is to block their own customers before confirming. but there is nothing on their site about blocking websites of cmpanies not hosted by them, or their customers.
now, it seems that hey are NOW trying to cover their arse, and have a 'new' policy in the wings.
Which tells you they will block other providers whenever they see fit to.
http://www.above.net/new_anti-spam.html
current/old one at:
http://www.above.net/anti-spam.html
note that they don't just block the mail traffic, they block ALL traffic. And since they ar enot _Just_an_ISP_, this effects more people than their customers. This is wrong. period. What about the poor sap that unknowingly gets routed through above.net's network?
This type of censorship is viral, for it goes beyond the provider's own network. Thus, the requirements and standards should be higher.
MAPS is so draconian that they could, by their rules, block anybody and everybody. Read their rules.
The net, just as government, should follow the Principle of the Least Rrestrictive. this means you block only the service causing the problem. Their tyrannical policy of refusing to say just how or why a given company, service or address is antithetical to their alleged goal.
I, as an administrator and potential subscriber to the RBL deserve to know how macromedia managed to get into the list. You, as a individual who may do business with Macromedia deserve to know as well. Say you don't like doing business with spammers. Say Macromedia got on the list without their having done anything wrong. You will never know, because MAPS has no real interest in decency. They are a single minded group of people who block more than is necessary, and refuse any responsibility or accountability for their decisions or actions.
They may try the claim of "We just list, we do not block". That is horseshit; they know full well how many places do block based upon their lists 9after all, they have subscriptions which cost quite a chunk of change, and require that you indemnify them), and the impact of even 24 hours of being listed unfairly. They have the arrogance to claim that UCE/UBE is more detrimental than lost connectivity.
Their hosts, they say, will _change_ the DNS entries of certain, routing them to their 'black hole'. THis practice is wrong because it violates what sanctity DNS has. They have noauthority to alter information regarding domains they do not own. how would you feel if the postals ervice, or FedEx, or whomever is in your area, decides to just stop delivering the mail you sent out?
What if you had no choice in the matter?
withte consolidation of ISPs that is currently underway, there will be less and less opportunity for indivudal users to select alternative ISPs. And those that did select a more decent ISP, may get screwed when that company sells to an ISP they left, or chose to not patronize.
They way to stand up to places like abive.net, and MAPs is to stop using them. For this to happen, people need to be told the reality of the situation. MAPS' claims are like the 'for the children' pleas from those who have no real justification for their proposals.
MAPS preference woiuld be a non-usable internet, rather than one that had spam. yeah, that's generlly called 'cutting off your nose to spite uour face'.
Full disclosure. (Score:4)
No shit, Sherlock?
http://www.above.net/anti-spam.html [above.net]
Gee whiz, that is even linked from their home page.
---
Re:"common carrier" status lost (Score:5)
above.net has nothing to lose. The notion that ISPs are common carriers is an urban legend. You do not become a "common carrier" simply by proclaiming yourself to be one. The common carrier status is something that has to be explicitly granted by the FCC, and it comes with stringent standards and regulations. Neither above.net, nor consumer ISPs are common carriers. There is some confusion whether or not ISPs operated by RBOCs (Verizoff, USWorst, PacHell) are common carriers, or not, but that's about it.
And just to clear up another popular misconception: above.net does not have any legal obligation to uphold anyone's First Ammendment rights. The 1st Ammendment only applies to the government. Unless above.net is a federal, state, or local, government agency, they are under no legal obligation to carry anyone's packets.
Although I am not familiar with the details of this particular situation, I strongly support above.net's right to firewall anyone and everyone they choose to firewall for any reason whatsoever. What those pseudo-libertarians around here who are shaking with righteous indignation, right now, are failing to realize is that civil liberties go both ways. If you would like to have your civil liberties respected, you'll just have to respect everyone else's civil liberties too. Blocking network traffic to/from netblocks that you don't want to route traffic to is conceptually identical to not being able to tell people to stop driving on your front lawn. This is above.net's network, their private properties, they have every right to tell anyone that they cannot use it, just like you have the civil right to tell anyone that they cannot drive on your private property too.
---
Re:Don't use Above.net (Score:3)
using BGP blackholing of RBL sites, at all.
I fully support that. Less spam for me, for one.
For two, I fully support the efforts of the RBL,
and know that only struggle and effort on the
part of system and network admins like me, against
the voices of the idiot users who don't see the
full picture, keeps the world as spam-free as it
is. Spammers are winning the battle- They are the
enemy, not the MAPS people, who are providing a
service, and dare I say, a damned fine service,
to the system and network administrators that are
intelligent enough to use it.
Even worse than the spammers are the people who
support spammers and spamming in general, and
the end users who just write off spam as a necessary evil. It is NOT, but if you give up on
anti-spam measures, all is already lost.
-Kysh
RBL goes against the spirit of the internet (Score:4)
It pains me to say this, but the RBL has become something to be abhorred, not loved. The purpose was (is!) noble, but for all practical purposes we have a few elites who are controlling a significant amount of traffic on the internet, based upon their own personal judgment calls. There is no system of checks and balances to make sure that mistakes like this do not occur, nor is there any recourse for someone to take if they do not believe they fit the classification of spammer and have nevertheless been blacklisted.
I hate spam as much as anybody, and hope for a gooey death for all of them. But MAPS is heading towards becoming a de facto totalitarian organization, deciding who gets to see what on the net. This is a dangerous thing, and don't think that there aren't governments out there who will take MAPS' tactics and apply them in even more unsavory ways.
- Rev.RBL and routes (Score:3)
Tell me something. What kind of idiotic netadmin would use something like the RBL to block routes on a router? That is the most assinine thing I've ever heard of. What happens if your provider's mail server gets listed? Whoops. What happens if the mail server of your DNS registrar gets blacklisted for whatever reason? Whoops. Gee I sure hope we don't need to update any of our records or renew a payment on our primary domain. Good thing I have that Yahoo address for when things like this happen. Oh darn, did the RBL just list keiko.ebay.com and the CEO missed an outbid notice on a gift for his wife. Well he should know better than to rely on such tempermental things as email from a very well known company like ebay to be on time and accurate.
I don't mean to sounds sarcastic but... Wait, I take that back. Yes I do mean to sound sarcastic. I mean to sound very sarcastic. Using the RBL to drop routes on a router is one of the dumbest things I think I've ever heard of. It's even more dumb than the time my super asked why we couldn't just turn off spanning tree in our flat-as-Calista-Flockhart's-chest network. And to think that people actually get paid to be this dumb. I use the DUL and RSS and greatly enjoy the assistance they give me in filtering out eroneous and illegitimate mail. I've even considered the use of RBL or ORBS from time to time. I have to have a certain degree of trust with a group that puts something like RBL or ORBS together. I trust them to filter out mail servers of spammers, spam friendly hosts, or misconfigured/compromised machines acting as an open relay. That doesn't mean that I want to drop all traffic to and from those hosts. I just don't want their damned spam. Does anyone else feel that RBL and routing just don't mix? My views may be skewed coming from an ISP and a university standpoint (separate thoughts and jobs) but this just doesn't make sense to me.
Ok, I just thought of an analogy that describes my thoughts on this. Using the RBL to drop routes at your border routers, hence dropping traffic that someone else deemed to be bad, is like the DMV or DOT using road spikes at on ramps to prevent all vehicles using Firestone tires from getting onto the highway. Someone else said they were bad tires and you automagically believe them and prevent all of them from entering onto your section of the highway, no matter what you tax-paying county/state residents want. That's a good business plan. Make them pay their dues but don't give them any say in what they get in the end.
In all honesty, using the RBL or any other such list to decide my filtering rules goes against every belief I've ever had as a network and/or security professional. Security. I haven't touched on that. It's late and I need my beauty sleep so I'll leave you with this one last thought. Consipiring with others to submit bogus RBL nominations or lightly compromise a machine enough to spam from it to get it on the RBL is one helluva DoS attack, don't you think? It's like probing ports of a machine that's running portsentry (set to drop routes) with their gateway of last resort, mail server, DNS servers, etc... addresses. That makes for a nice DoS attack too. Not only would this make them fall off of the face of the 'Net, but it would quite easily cast the shadow of guilt onto MAPS for accepting the bad nominations, or at least off of your trail for some time. It's an interesting thought...
--
Too bad (Score:5)
;)
Don't use Above.net (Score:3)
It should be up to me what traffic I want to block, not my ISP. If I were an Above.net customer I would be looking for another ISP. I'm suprised their customers let them get away with that crap.
above.net blocked me, too (Score:5)
It's a fine line. Clearly, above.net has the right to do anything they want with their systems, and I fully support that right (it's the only thing that allows us to fight SPAM at all).
However, their customers should know what they're doing so they can make an informed choice about who they get service from.
Dave Rand, the MAPS board member and CTO of Above.net, actually sent me a note threatening to block my employer's class C if I so much as connected to any of above.net's mail servers, just because I was associated with ORBS.
Bottom line - Rand's a dick. But, MAPS does good things and Above.net supporting them helps keep the real SPAM under control.
Re:Noticed the problem, didn't notice the reason (Score:3)
I noticed the problem too. I went to log on to the macromedia university (hosted through elementk) to get some information off their bookshelves (I paid the 499$ fee for a years access). It's actually on a different server, so had I remembered the address, I might have been ok, but as it was, I couldn't get to the main site www.macromedia.com [macromedia.com] for that or for any other purposes (The flash and ultradev exchanges). I've never recieved any spam from macromedia, so all Above.net's military-like actions did was remove some users who genuinely needed to get there.
I even sent email to Macromedia asking if their site was down, but they were as confused as I was in their reply. They said they were not showing any problems, but that others had reported the same issues.
Oh well..yet another reason to dislike people with too much power that have no conscience about using it.
Re:RBL getting out of hand... (Score:4)
Remember that the MAPS RBL is very strict about entry requirements, and very trusting. A RBL nomination is _very_ hard, and requires a large amount of evidence. I don't suppose Jamie checked the RBL evidence files before writing the article, did he? The only comment's from Macromedia PR, who are anxious to make themselves look good. Sigh.
What the RBL administrators will have done would be to list the entire Macromedia netblock in which the spewing mailserver exists - NOT just two IPs, as Jamie says. This is 216.35.148.0/23, on Exodus - which contains not only the mail server, but also secondary DNS service (primary is on Concentric) and the Macromedia web server.
Today's traceroute to macromedia.com goes into a loop at a border router in Exodusland, by the way.
Remember that Above.net and Teleglobe are two of the VERY few providers that use what is called a BGP feed to the RBL. This is the original RBL - it provides a feed of RBL data to the border routers, where the IPs are cut off. As they are very private networks, they're entitled to do to them what they like - ISPS ARE NOT COMMON CARRIERS IN LAW. When a second tier ISP decides to connect to the above.net backbone (Above don't sell to consumers, but only to big webhosters - ironically, some of which spam loads themselves, like eBay) they KNOW about the RBL BGP feed. It's one of Above's selling points, the network most free of spam trouble.
Of course, BGP is becoming more troublesome than it's worth. But Peacefire, your favoured "hey, there's another example", is collateral too - it is in the middle of a netblock containing a load of spam support sites (Sam Al's Samco, in this case) and was MOVED there by Media3 in August 2000, after the RBL listing for that particular netblock was in place (the listing is dated June). And Media3 is suing MAPS, and so MAPS is not going to remove the listing. I wonder whether Media3 was trying a publicity stunt, and using Bennett as a figurehead?
Whatever. As for Macromedia, they're not blocked now. Obviously, they've been educated. Let's move on.
(Oh, by the way...whichever comment referred to us antispammers [and we are no means a coherent whole - some of us oppose the RBL, some of us oppose ORBS, some oppose both, some of us have HUGE private blocklists of our own] as "spam nazis" is violating Godwin's Law at stage one, as well as being factually inaccurate. We support free speech, just not your right to force it on others at the expense of theirs. Shame on you.)
Backbone Providers vs. local ISP's (Score:3)
When I connect to the Internet as Joe User I have no voice whatsoever as to what path my packets take. I may buy my connectivity from Local.net who in turn buys it from NSP.net who in turn peers with Tier1.net who then peers with Above.net. If it were simply a case whereby I could change my ISP to voice my diapproval with their policies that would be one thing, but as it is I have no way to opt out of using Above.net's pipes.
As a Tier 1 provider it is generally assumed that it is their duty to provide nothing more than an open pipe, anyone with a networking background knows you never apply filters at the core level, that should be handled at the access level. By the very practices of the networking industry in general Above.net is committing several transgressions.
In all honesty they can't afford to commit too many more of these blockings without risking their peering partners dumping them in favor of someone who doesn't apply filters. As a NOC Manager myself I would be horrified to find out I was directly peering with someone who doesn't understand the basics of network topology.
I urge anyone working for the major ISP's to drop Above.net as a peering provider in favor of someone a little more user friendly.
Re:I think.. (Score:3)
If you don't agree with how your provider goes about fighting spam, then don't do business with them.
Just like how ISPs can shoose not to carry traffic from other providers.
Whether or not above.net, macromedia, and you are making the right business decisions is being determined in the market, moment by moment, precisely how it should be - by evaluating the proven profitability of those business decisions.
OK, a couple of things... (Score:4)
OK, back to the facts: Macromedia was listed on the RBL because, after several warnings, they continued to operate their 'opt-in' mailing list in an unsafe way, i.e. without requiring confirmation of subscription requests. The RBL is subscribed to by a large number of ISPs to keep their mailservers free from spam: Abovenet uses it to filter all IP packets from or to RBL-listed destinations from their network, which is a little extreme, but not 'stealth' in any way, since it is their stated policy to do this. (Don't like this? Don't buy transit from Abovenet or get an ISP that doesn't transit Abovenet...)
Since Macromedia apparently used their web server to send mail at some point, the result of their RBL listing was: no more Macromedia web services to Abovenet customers, or customers who receive their transit via Abovenet. Does this suck for these customers? Yes. Does it suck as much as large corporations not being a responsible Netizen? No, not at all.
Macromedia could have fixed this 'censorship' problem in 10 minutes by separating the mail and web services on their server, and assigning the web server a new IP address. One DNS change (and a few cache expiries later: give or take 4 hours) later, all would have been OK, web-wise. Why didn't they do it? Probably for the same reason their mailing list practices still suck: ignorance and/or incompetence.
This is not a censorship issue: it's an issue about weeding out the clueless on the Internet. And Macromedia apparently is the weakest link. Goodbye!
Re:Not quite (Score:5)
This is a crap argument for two reasons. One is that there's no guarantee that even switching to another provider would actually help the situation. Above.net is a big backbone provider, so in practice it may be impossible to avoid using them short of building your own network. Saying that the alternative to accepting censorship is to create your own multinational corporation is not a strong argument.
The bigger point is that getting access to web sites is not an optional service for a web provider. You claim, in essence, that you get what you pay for and that if you want good service you may have to pay more for it. But your restaraunt analogy points out that there are some aspects of a service that we consider to be essential, not optional, and businesses that fail to provide them should be shut down. In restaraunts, we expect that the food and facilities will meet certain minimum standards, and we have periodic health inspections to ensure that the restaraunts are meeting those standards. We are merely expressing the view that the minimum acceptible standard for an internet provider is that they deliver the information that their users request and not censor it because they disagree with the policies of the source.
This is actually a pretty good analogy, because the kitchen of a restaraunt, like the backbone provider for an ISP, is something that's generally hidden from the end user. Most people aren't given the option of inspecting the kitchen of a restaraunt for roaches before eating there, and most users aren't given the option of finding out about their ISP's backbone providers before deciding whether to pick it. This is reasonable behavior in each case, but it means that the companies involved have a responsibility to maintain acceptible standards even when their customers aren't looking.
Newsletters can be spam too (Score:3)
Re:RBL goes against the spirit of the internet (Score:3)
Re:"common carrier" status lost (Score:3)
This is not strictly correct. A common carrier can be declared as such by the courts, however ISPs have already been ruled by the courts as not being common carriers (in CompuServe v Cyber Promotions IIRC) because:
Re:Wow... (Score:3)
I almost feel sorry for the small time trailerpark crowd trying to sell me diplomas or CDs full of e-mail addresses. It's the mainstream spamming which must be simply absolutely not tolerated on the Internet, and I'm glad that there's powerful forces fighting it.
If it becomes acceptable for reputable companies such as Macromedia (or EA or eBay to name a few perpetrators) to spam, do you really think there's any hope stopping bubba19023@hotmail.com from flooding your inbox with MAKE MONY FAST?
Re:hmm..Cubans Truckers (Score:3)
Think about it.
krystal_blade
Re:OK, a couple of things... (Score:4)
I think you are unclear on just what MAPS is for. MAPS plays no significant role in blocking spam. MAPS is a deterrent to spam. MAPS is what keeps big providers and companies from deciding that spam is worthwhile. To work, they have to make it very painful for a company to spam. That means blocking the company. Not just the mail servers.
In April some idiot signed up for The Edge at Macromedia's web site using webmaster@somewhere.com. It took me a month and a half and repeated complaints to get off the list. If MAPS has forced changes so that won't happen again--more power to them.
The internet is not a democracy. It's a battleground between competing interests. MAPS and ORBS both have major problems with the personalities involved, and they've both stepped over the line at times, although MAPS is far more conservative. If you think you can do a better job, then step up to the plate. If you think they've gone too far, then say so. But don't bite the hand that's protecting you.
Re:RBL getting out of hand... (Score:3)
Peacefire's whining over their provider getting RBL'ed for being a pit of spammers, and more importantly their refusal to change providers, even though they were offered free hosting other places, made it quite clear that they're not interested in actually getting along with folks, and merely want to be seen as some sort of martyrs.
Merely mentioning Peacefire made it clear from the outset that this wasn't going to be an objective story.
Censorship is bad. Spam is bad. Censorship is content-driven. The RBL and things like that are not content-driven. They are activity- and method-driven. Censorship is oppressive. Is the RBL oppressive? Sure. Is spam oppressive? Every bit as much as the RBL is.
Anarchy is not about getting rid of rules - it is about getting rid of oppression.
--
RBL is opt-in (Score:3)
Another point I want to add is that RBL works. I once worked for an ISP that refused to secure their mail server, because it meant the pointy head bosses might actually have to understand how their mail works when they were travelling. They ran for a year that way, against advice, and then one day popped up on the RBL list and started getting complaints. Problem fixed in about a day. The Sys Admin had to work his butt off to fix the relay, but he got it up and got off the RBL within a couple days. And he understood the net better afterwards.
Re:you're missing the point (Score:3)
While I agree that there are some things egregeous enough to demand relatively harsh actions, I think it's clear to most reasonable people that the RBL is overkill for what it's reacting to. Combined with the fact that it's relatively ineffective at blocking spam, which is its stated purpose (see cites in Jamie's previously posted article--third-party research indicates that MAPS is one of the worst filtering systems out there) I think that this is more of a witch hunt than a socially responsible act of network defense. Do you honestly think that spam really absorbs a significant percentage of bandwidth in these days of fat pipes and graphics heavy websites? (actually, if anyone knows that stat, I would seriously be interested in seeing a cite for it... I've always wondered). I understand, and share, the common disgust with spammers. I'm all in favor of most anti-spam tactics, even including retaliatory spamming (especially liked some previous posters method of harvesting salesperson's e-mail addresses and hitting them back) which are easily seen as just as evil as the original abuse. But the RBL affects too many people who cannot have any control over it, and operates in too much secrecy to have any broad educational effect. I see all kinds of posters to this story clamoring about how you should shop for another ISP if you don't like one that uses the RBL, but that's both impractical for users who can't track down backbone providers (which is what we're really talking about here) for their ISP options, and flat-out impossible if you don't realize that the RBL is causing your problems--they provide no notification to the end-user. Not everyone has the base level of technical ability that the average poster here does.
And for those here blaring loudly that as a private company, Abovenet can do whatever it damn well pleases with the traffic it carries (quite correctly), I have two comments: one, extend that notion to other commonly provided services you patronize and see if it still sounds good; two, don't bitch about the inevitable lawsuits... that's how matters are resolved when companies do whatever they damn well please.
Thank you.
Re:hmm.. (Score:4)
But they do! The United States does not accept any imports from Cuba because of political differences. You can argue that there are consequences to that (non-)relationship, but don't think that it doesn't happen in the real world.
Re:Don't use Above.net (Score:5)
Unfortunatly, they can. Here's why:
Re:I think.. (Score:3)
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Re:I think.. (Score:4)
I totally agree with you! Well said!
I think I can explain WHY MAPS refuses to justify their decisions with an explanation:
To do so would be to get sued. Why? because they'd have to BACK UP every word.
So, they operate clandestinly, hiding behind the vague "we have the right to block any traffic coming through our network" BS.
Sooner or later, MAPS is going to piss off someone too big to defend against the lawsuit...
Why Macromedia?
I can name THESE sites that SPAM you FAR worse than Macromedia (ie, have "opt out" systems when registering software or signing up for services)... Think MAPS will block THEM anytime soon?
Real Networks
Microsoft
Doubleclick and most other ad servers (sick of all those "cursor upgrades" that pop up and install automatically when using `Doze, one reason why I do all net surfing under Mandrake now).
Or does "who" you are matter more to MAPS than how offensive your tactics are?
Operating the way they do, in refusing comment or to justify their actions AT ALL, MAPS is setting themselves up to be "avove ALL question".
NOTHING offends me more than that attitude! There is NOTHING... NOTHING that is above ALL question!
Above.net no longer uses MAPS RBL (Score:3)
In light of this, I'm confused. Is Above.net using MAPS or not? This notice came a couple of weeks ago.
Where's the journalistic integrity and objectiviy? (Score:3)