Air Force Seeking Geeks For 'Cyber Command' 524
An anonymous reader writes "Wired reports that the two-star general in charge of the US Air Force's new Cyber Command is looking for hacker-types to beef up its cadre of cyber warriors — no heavy lifting required. 'We have to change the way we think about warriors of the future,' General William Lord says. 'So if they can't run three miles with a pack on their backs but they can shut down SCADA system, we need to have a culture where they fit in.' The Cyber Command is the Air Force's first new Major Command since the early 1990s. Its purpose is to be able to win an electronic war with China and other potential adversaries."
At least I know (Score:1, Insightful)
not a bad deal really (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Barn Door: Already Open (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Barn Door: Already Open (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, China has enough cash on hand to send the US economy into a deep recession, thereby ruining the country before any other steps are taken...
Air Force? (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems to me that we should have a specialized agency, or perhaps even a military branch, for cyber warfare.
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:4, Insightful)
Every single soldier I know would be appalled at the very idea of attacking civilians. Every single one of them would refuse an order to do so.
I cuold already win an electronic war. (Score:3, Insightful)
If an EMP bomb tested out in the Pacific could affect both Hawaii and Japan coasts, one EMP could effectively cover China. We already have the weaponry to win an electronic war.
China ? (Score:5, Insightful)
China and other potential adversaries.
I can't be the only dude from the EU who has noticed a slow rise in anti-China stuff on slashdot?
Do other news sources in the US have this slant? Because looking at it from the outside, it's like the US^H^H^H^H Fox News is seeking a new bogeyman now the cold war is over. Unfortunately some of this is rubbing off on a more intellegent news source like
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not exactly sure if you're referring to just the current or recent wars of the US, or if you're talking about any war whatsoever...
But what utopia do you live in, may I ask? I'm sorry, but war is sometimes necessary. I'm not defending any particular war of any particular nation, but only saying that war is sometimes necessary. If someone is out to blow *your* country to bits, it doesn't do much good to talk to them or give them a philosophical (and well thought out, too) argument about why killing you would really just incite more killing, etc. There are even people that simply enjoy the carnage.
As long as life exists, there is going to be anger, hate, and malice; and as long as anger, hate, and malice exist, there's going to be bloodshed.
I'm all for peace and not war, but it is an unfortunate necessity at some points, in order to save life from those who WANT to destroy it for whatever reasons. It is from those "wanting to be guilty of murder and death" that more moral nations and armies are to protect the innocent.
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I wasn't just speaking of the innocents. Killing begets more killing. You kill them. They are motivated to kill you. Again your side kills members of their side. On and on it goes.
The forever war is just what those in power want - which ever side they are on. The only answer is to stop the killing by all those involved using communication and other methods.
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:2, Insightful)
You obviously have bought the mainstream propaganda about war. War is all about death and power. Killing others so that you have power. That is evil no matter what side you are on.
I don't live in utopia. I live in a world at war. Death and destruction everywhere. Indroctrination into the death cult occurs from birth whether it's into the death cult of a suicide bomber in the middle east or the honor macho death cult of the west. They are the same - death to others at all costs.
Murder, death, kill. There are other solutions and your the one in the dream world if you think that killing is the answer to the problems facing the world.
they do (Score:5, Insightful)
The military wants their tech to work and be way cooler and better than anyone else's stuff, cost to them is no object, and they don't give a fuck what it looks like or whether it "appeals" to the critical 18-25 Facebook demographic. It's going to be painted olive drab anyway, and soldiers will be told to use it, not begged. Fairly ideal working conditions for a really smart technical person, I'd say. The only drawback is the various amounts of bureaucratic bullshit you have to cope with, which tops the level in a good private firm.
Anyway, I've never heard of a good technical job in the military or one of its prime contractors, or one of the defense-associated national labs, not drawing a huge raft of top-notch applicants. It's agencies like the EPA which pay terribly, have hideous civil-service and union rules weighing them down, and which, frankly, involve boring and outdated technology, which end up desperate to hire even third-rate people.
Re:Barn Door: Already Open (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:3, Insightful)
Pothead |= deadbeat. Judge results, not style, shitsuck.
Re:this is good but (Score:5, Insightful)
You've obviously never been in a maintenance shop before then. LAN parties were the norm most weekends back in the day. Now that almost everyone has broadband most everyone is playing WOW or other online game together. Whole sections go raiding and then talk about it the whole next day. It drives me nuts and cracks me up at the same time since these same guys pick on the "socially inept" for being nerds.
The level of geekdom varies, but the whole spectrum can be found, most are just gamers, many build their own computers, some are digital/3D artists, and a minority are your uber "look what hardware/software creation/hack I came up with this weekend" nerds.
I wouldn't buy the whole "they may not be able to run three miles and carry a pack" the Air Force is kicking people out left and right for being too fat and lazy. They like to call it "Fit to Fight", even though most of our jobs requirements are "Fit to Sit", they're just trying to cut down on the medical bills they have to pay.
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:2, Insightful)
Solving issues like gang violence and the violence of the mafia are similar. While you might think that they are at a smaller scale they are essentially the same, except for scale.
Anyone who chooses violence to solve a problem - except in personal self defense - IS the problem and not the solution.
The cultural shifts needed are many.
It isn't about idealism, it's about moving towards a planet where murder, killing, death and power over others are unacceptable solutions for all human beings everywhere.
There are many steps that you need to take in your deprogramming from your cult of death. If it's acceptable for you to kill someone then it's acceptable for them to kill you. Where we need to get to is that it's unacceptable for anyone to kill anyone for any reason.
Re:China ? (Score:3, Insightful)
It might have something to do with the vast majority of attacks on DoD and other US Government systems coming from China (as reported on Slashdot last year). Just a guess, though.
Come to the Dark Side - We have Cookies! (Score:3, Insightful)
Good luck getting geeks to move to Barksdale Louisiana - nearest major town is Shreveport, and it's about 3 hours from Dallas, 5-6 from New Orleans. They may be building a big shiny building, but if they want to hire geeks, they'd have a lot better luck locating this at Livermore Labs or Moffett Field or somewhere around Boston or NYC.
Re:Barn Door: Already Open (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course it is -- their mission is to protect us. If peace is the better way (say, compared to the shit going on for the past seven years in Iraq), they should just salute and look for the assignments board.
Why do you think the troops spend a lot of time in Iraq building schools, water purification plants, etc.? When he's president, Obama should just tell them, "Get your asses back stateside and build schools and water purification plants for our own people.
So far, to take revenge for some 3K deaths in NY, we've sacrificed nearly 4K of our own troops. Never to mention a good 60K to 100K Iraquis. There's a hell of a start -- do you think there's a single family in Iraq which hasn't had multiple members killed by Bushfuck? That bastard has set us up for a thousand generations of hatred and revenge.
If you think the terrorists haven't won, consider that we're about a trillion into the war, with at least another trillion in future payments for medical and psychological care for our surviving troops and their families. And that's not to count the value our nation will never get back by having these people in productive jobs.
There never has been and will never again be a project with a better ROI for the perpetrates than 9/11.
The terrorists will not have long to hate our freedom -- our own government will take it all away on behalf of the terrorists. They won't have to lift another finger, except for the medial digit.
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:3, Insightful)
Too bad they will throw out around 10% of the most talented computer people right out for not willing to live in suffocating secrecy about their private lives.
There's a lot of very talented GLBT* hackers out there, and the military will have to crawl into this century with its attitudes if it wants this century's warriors. Else civilian contractors it is.
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:5, Insightful)
The only answer is to stop the killing by all those involved using communication and other methods.
Like appeasement? Or bribery? Or lying to avoid conflict? Or global adoption of your philosophy? How do you plan on convincing people to not want "your stuff" or to not want you dead or worse? Are you going to inform them that it is hurtful?
I'll suggest that communication alone may never bring peace, because communication does not address disagreement at the philosophical level. It just defines the boundaries of the disagreement.
You really do eat the propaganda from the military don't you.
Way to communicate. I'm sure your patience, empathy and understanding will bring love and peace to /. in no time.
Oh wait, maybe I misinterpreted that statement as being condescending. Either way, maybe you should consider improving your communication with people you do not agree with.
God I love irony.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:2, Insightful)
Suspicion confirmed. Being in the military makes you an asshole.
Re:In the words of another military leader: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:2, Insightful)
And it's typical of some people to ignore that sometimes, just sometimes, violence really is the answer. or at least the fastest, surest one.
Ironically enough (given this conversation), I'm pretty much a pacifist. I've never struck anyone in anger in my life, I don't understand the obsession with violence, I can talk my way out of most any situation by making an aggressor understand that violence won't achieve his goals (and have, in several different countries across a number of continents). I am happy to simply walk away from most any perilous situation, because it's generally unfulfilling for an aggressor to engage with someone who doesn't resist, and my ego is firm enough that I don't care if some random people I'll never see again think I wasn't "a man" by fighting some drunk or distressed idiot.
But I'm also a realist, and know that there are some situations where a person would honestly have no acceptable alternative but to beat an aggressor to death with whatever blunt object was handy. It's (thankfully) unlikely I'll ever encounter one of those situations in my life, I'm much happier to travel the world providing health care to remote villages where the locals are happy to see me and the greatest danger I really face is robbery by outsiders who see a wealthy westerner (which of course has happened, but a couple thousand dollars in computer equipment ultimately isn't that big a deal to me -- the annoyance is when they get your passport, because that is just a real inconvenience).
I'd love to have a universal solution to violence. I don't expect one to come down the pike anytime soon, though I agree 99% of the violence that occurs could be avoided if people and leaders would just chill the fuck out a little bit.
Re:China ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Get a clue. There's nothing sinister about the discussion of the constant Chinese cyber-attacks, and the possible threat from their economic rise. Your complaint is especially galling considering that you're from the EU - I've seen what passes as "news" in your papers when it comes to reporting on US foreign policy. UK and German papers, at least, are so blatantly biased and "looking for a bogyman" that they make Fox News seem fair and balanced.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is incorrect, looking at ACTUAL history, those who've had the wealth, arms and power were one in the same, an they use fear of punishment to keep their power. We don't have the worker rights we do without our ancestors having fought employers (businesses), and against land owners (slavery), war is ABSOLUTELY necessary to gain your freedom and change society for the better in many instances, just look at the US government passing telecom immunity bill, that shit would not happen if an army of americans was going apeshit and destroying property, but most americans are too passified and too ignorant to understand their rights, easily lied to and mislead. Many things have never come without bloodshed. All wars are in the end mental in nature, an interest vs an interest, whether it be cultural oppression, or oppression based on resources.
Re:At least I know (Score:2, Insightful)
And sure this specific job is for the most part intelligence gathering/tampering... its still just another means to the end of outflanking your enemies, which as harmless as it may appear is still effectively terrorism, they are "attacking" other countries "computers", which inevitably means those countries will retaliate.
The Government is there to (try and) "Keep The Peace" the Military is there to kill them when that fails...or at best, threaten to kill them...
Re:At least I know (Score:4, Insightful)
Then the approvals, and officers sticking their 2 cents in every second.
Don't see it working well unless they truly allow for a different methodology in this "command"
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
While I can understand them (or any employer for that matter) requesting you dont come in drunk/high on the job (thus their time), but short of people on call 24 hrs, I cant see any difference between smoking up for a weekend and getting drunk (thus YOUR time), as neither effects your job!
If my employer asked me to stop drinking milk at home, or to stop buying scotch tape, I would think just as little of them as when im asked to not smoke up at home too.
And no, I dont smoke (only cigerettes), but hell that could be next if we dont keep them in check now!
Re:In the words of another military leader: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ask a variety Airmen about their jobs. You will get the full range of opinions on their AF experience. None of them want to serve with someone who is unhappy and pissed off. Grumpy co-workers make the workcenter uncomfortable.
If you are unhappy after enlisting, there are plenty of easy ways to get out.
"Once they get you to sign on the dotted line," RTFC (Read The Fine Contract) and go in with a guaranteed job.
Don't go in "General Enlistment",
Air Force re-enlistment rates are high for good reason. a comfortable career, utterly insulated from the outside economy, interesting jobs (most of them, choose wisely) and tasty benefits.
There is also a nice carrot at the end. While you can retire with full benefits at 20 years, do a few years over that and you can REALLY retire because of the retirement percentage bumps. I don't have to work again unless I want to, and instead of being 65 I'm in my late forties.
Re:In the words of another military leader: (Score:5, Insightful)
I happen to know, because that was the only way I joined. Of course, you have to have the balls to say - "Fine, I quit!" if they don't keep their end of the bargain. But, they don't have a legal leg to stand on if it's in your contract.
So the moral of the story is: If they tell you you can smoke pot and play video games all day get it in writing as part of your contract. Because you will have recruiters tell people all kinds of things but only what's in writing sticks. Kind of like any other employment contract, no?
Re:At least I know (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you really think wars are fought with your "SOP?" Only football games are that organized. There are methods of communication between members of a fire team/squad/platoon, and clear authority lines, that allow them to behave during combat in a way that looks organized...but the fact is, the military is far far more clear than the civilian world on the fact that the enemy (whatever form he takes) is not following procedures, and thus you can't either. The system is very much tolerant of people making spot decisions, shifting to what is occurring, and etc. Are there guidelines? Certainly - none which would hamper a hacker, however.
Somehow, I get the feeling your idea of the US military has either limited scope because you were only exposed to very-low-ranking members of the military. Keep in mind that if someone is highly skilled in an industry, they generally come in as either Warrant Officers, or fully commissioned officers. Alternatively, you just flat out think wars are fought like they were in the 1700s - people standing in nice neat little lines, moving along like pieces on a chess board. That never flied here; we tore apart the British when they did that, and we didn't. Catch up.
Will there be junior positions associated with the group? Certainly. But the meat of the folks - the folks that are now being actively sought out - are those that will fill officer and warrant officer ranks.
//was just a lowly 0311 grunt when I was a kid, myself...now, not so much
Re:Those who join will become killers. (Score:3, Insightful)
Violence and life go hand and hand since day one; when the supply curve is surpassed by the demand curve violence is the outcome. This happens in every single walk of life; go to the oceans and it happens there. Go to the african plains and it happens there. Go to the amazon rain forest it happens there.
Even you madam or sir, are a product of this "cult of death" because you see at some point in the chain of life that lead to the birth of you, there was an ancestor of yours who had to fight over resources. Their ability to win, through the prism of 'the cult of death' has allowed you to be here today.
You want us to evolve beyond the cult of death? Go invent fusion power, and maybe then we'll have the ability to alter the nature of existence for all seven billion of us on this planet so we too can join your "cult of life" but until resources are even and ubiquitous this will never happen. Me, I'm going to go live in the real world, have fun in fantasy land.
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Barn Door: Already Open (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course it is -- their mission is to protect us. If peace is the better way (say, compared to the shit going on for the past seven years in Iraq), they should just salute and look for the assignments board.
Why do you think the troops spend a lot of time in Iraq building schools, water purification plants, etc.? When he's president, Obama should just tell them, "Get your asses back stateside and build schools and water purification plants for our own people.
So far, to take revenge for some 3K deaths in NY, we've sacrificed nearly 4K of our own troops. Never to mention a good 60K to 100K Iraquis. There's a hell of a start -- do you think there's a single family in Iraq which hasn't had multiple members killed by Bushfuck? That bastard has set us up for a thousand generations of hatred and revenge.
If you think the terrorists haven't won, consider that we're about a trillion into the war, with at least another trillion in future payments for medical and psychological care for our surviving troops and their families. And that's not to count the value our nation will never get back by having these people in productive jobs.
There never has been and will never again be a project with a better ROI for the perpetrates than 9/11.
The terrorists will not have long to hate our freedom -- our own government will take it all away on behalf of the terrorists. They won't have to lift another finger, except for the medial digit.
Re:At least I know (Score:3, Insightful)
As an aside, I could use the medical insurance...
Plus military experience never hurt, where do I sign up?"
Well, also, think about it. If you like hacking/cracking into systems, these days in the civvy world, if you get caught, you're in serious trouble with fines and possible jail times.
You do it for the military against other countries, and you've probably got carte blanche to do as you please on foreign systems....no law problems, etc.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:3, Insightful)
We don't let people with ongoing prescriptions for pain killers like Oxycontin in either.
I'm all for legalizing drugs. I'm also all for making people bear the consequences of their drug use (instead of being bailed out by taxpayers when they lose everything), and being excluded from certain jobs due to it.