Teen Sues MySpace Over Sexual Assault 979
kaufmanmoore writes "A 14-year old is suing myspace for $30 million claiming the site failed to protect her from a 19-year old she met through the site. The suit claims that MySpace doesn't verify a user's identity or age and doesn't do enough to protect users."
Interesting world we live in (Score:4, Interesting)
Rule of law, Rule of man.... I always assumed Rule of Law was better - but now I'm beginning to wonder... the longer and further we walk down this path the worse it gets.
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Interesting)
1) You can't monitor everything they do on the Internet anymore
2) There's still a lot of things they don't know (but should)
3) They think they know enough
Re:mooches mooches (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Require retention of conversations for underage (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What they need. (Score:4, Interesting)
Right. Beacause community-based websites and bulletin boards have been around for such a long time, and there are so-o-o-o-o many legal challenges and precedents in that space.
Face it: The MySpace cesspool is in danger of leaking out and poisoning the well of community-based boards everywhere; the pure, crystal clear waters of SlashDot and its ilk are not going to have a cleansing effect, legal or otherwise, on MySpace.
I am seeing activism on the grass roots level against MySpace like I haven't seen since the early 90's (the kind of awareness that laid the groundwork for all the online child protection legislation). If the "good" community spaces are smart, they will toss MySpace out into the snow with extreme prejudice then circle the wagons before the Clintons and the Liebermans and all the other politicos up for re-election start painting them with the same brush they are currently tarring-up for MySpace.
Right or Wrong, there is a BIG RECKONING coming, and it WILL be impacting business models throughout the 'Net.
My Prediction, based on historical precedent? MySpace goes the way of GeoCities (socially un-cool and retro), and the kids all start gravitating to their own (and de-centralized) unique TLDs, just like their neo-adult blogging counterparts.
Suing for stupidity (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd say I agree with pretty much everything you say, but ...
I really don't think it's any less safe for kids to play outside than it used to be. Incidents (a very non-specific term for the unpleasent events that do occur) are far more widely reported these days, and mostly, I fear, because it sells newspapers. The news reporting seems to be trying to scare the population into becoming hermits. If you don't lock your doors, arm yourself (esp. in the US), wrap your kids in cotton wool, and buy tomorrow's newspaper (!) you won't be safe!
Most of the problem of stupid teenagers is because they haven't been able to learn from their mistakes earlier in life because they are simply not allowed to take risks. It must be tough to let your kids out of your sight when you hear all the truely awful stories of what "sometimes" happens, but the children are missing out on part of their development and this is what makes them think it's OK for them to wander off with a 19 year old when they are 13 or 14. If they'd had some exposure to the real world when they were 8, 9, 10 they'd more than likely realise that there's something suspicious about a 19 year old wanting to spend time with a 13 or 14 year old!
Re:How can they? (Score:1, Interesting)
2) ???
3) 1984!
Re:What they need. (Score:1, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Interesting)
Neither hoping for something nor expecting it means that the thing is in any way obliged to happen. That is, in this case, the 19 year old can *expect* the girl to put out after the things he's done, but she is in no way *obliged* to do so.
Change "expectation [cambridge.org]" in your post for "obligation [cambridge.org]" and you're spot on.
So, calm down, deep breaths, he didn't mean what you thought he meant
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hang on... (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't fear, I'm absolutely not suggesting that. I've met my fair share of teenage kids who show a hell of a lot more wisdom than someone twice their age. I've had my rear legitimately handed to me enough times in online discussions by people who have turned out to be twelve to know not to underestimate the young ones. But a good number of kids that age do have a degree of naivety, and some girls that age may not have caught onto the sheer number of people who will say and do whatever they can to get into someones pants.
Finally, I guess she does now have a 'life experience' from which she can learn, doesn't she?
Yes, and it's sad that she had to learn this way.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Interesting)
He was 19 years old. He told her, instead, that he was a high school senior. High school seniors are usually around 18 years old. So the 14-year-old girl went out with a guy she thought was around 18, but it turned out he was actually 19.
If only she had known ahead of time... Damn you MySpace! Damn you!
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Interesting)
Depends on what the information is. If it's just name, address, DOB kind of stuff, then it's probably not a problem. If they abuse this system (which I feel would inevitably happen here in the US) by tying in all sorts of other info, then you have problems.
Re:Hang on... (Score:2, Interesting)
What's wrong with that? If you spend all night being wined and dined and acting like you want to have sex with someone and you don't, then you're just leading them on and using them. Using people is not nice. A person may not be legally or even morally obligated, but it's a really shitty thing to do. Of course, it's no justification to force the issue; being a cocktease is bad, but being a rapist is worse.
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Interesting)
As long as we have mini-humans with mini-humanity, all such laws are unjust, as far as I'm concerned.
Re:Hi.. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Informed consent (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly..the line was drawn somewhere and most people admit it is arbitrary, yet people like my friend who was 20 and had sex with a 17-year old is a Registered Sex Offender (TM) for committing misdemeanor statutory rape. Nevermind the fact that he's now been married to the girl for 4 years and they now have a little one year old daughter.
The girl objected to his prosecution that was sought by her mother. She refused to testify against him at trial and spent a week in jail and paid court fines for contempt. She turned 18 just a few months after the trial and once she did she left her mother to live with the family of her then boyfriend and has been with him ever since.
Our church has a TaeKwan Do ministry (don't ask) and my friend was an instructor. He was always there with a room full of parents and other instructors and students. One of the parents found out he was a 'sex offender' and reported him to the police, saying that it didn't 'look right' that he was instructing martial arts (some of the students were teen). Due to Georgia's get-tough-on-sex crimes laws he was arrested with only the complain. In Georgia, sex offenders suspected of violating sex crimed laws are not granted bail. They are held until a finding of fact hearing be the court (IANAL but this is what his attorney called it). In his case the court date was a month away and he had a one week old baby at home. The attorney petitioned the judge for a special hearing due to his circumstances (the baby) and the judge released him on a signature bond. This was very unusual as most judges won't do that. At the final hearing the judge ruled that he did not violate any statues (remember: he's a sex offender, not on parole!) and that the claims were without merit. The judge also admonished the legislature for creating vague rules that are impossible to implement and are open to any number of interpretations.
The puritanical nature of our laws is absolutely ridiculous and is in my opinion catering to the right-wing fundamentalists in the republican party. I am a conservative Christian and former republican, by the way. I left the party when I decided the republicans could no longer perform simple addition and subtraction (read: balance a budget) and when they handed defeat to terrorists by encouraging the public to actually be afraid of them (the terrorists' stated purpose).
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Interesting)
I knew several 19 year old seniors - not the brightest bulbs on the circuit - but they were 19 at graduation.
He may have been younger when he created his profile and never updated it. And, if she lied about her age, well...it's easy to see how this occurred. Tragic, but understandable.
I don't condone his actions - not in the least. And, I'm 100% in agreement with another poster that the only reason MySpace is being sued for $30M is because Solis doesn't have it. MySpace was not charged because they are not responsible for what occurred. The case should never be allowed in the first place.
Focus should be placed on the parents who may or may not have known their daughter, at age 14, was being wined and dined by someone claiming to be a high school senior. 15/16 year olds are sophopmores (i.e. 10th grade) - she was a best a freshman or still in middle school. Her parents failed her by not taking enough of a role in her life and knowing what she is doing. Some things happen, but it is possible that this could have been prevented.
As someone who's best friend's husband is now serving an all too short 59 months for having a sexual relationship with an underaged girl over a span of 5 years (she was 13/14 when it started - he was in his early 40's - he claimed he didn't know that having sex with a minor was illegal - it was a consentual relationship. Right.), I saw how easy it is for a young teen to get involved in a situation like this. As a result, my children are not permitted on the internet except to visit a few kid oriented game sights or for school oriented research. Even then, my wife and I are keenly aware of what they are doing, where they are going on the internet and who they are communicating with. Eventually, they will be allowed more freedoms as they grow older - but we will still want to take an active involvement in their lives. That's what parents are supposed to do.
RD
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know about 'wined and dined' (Especially as duh, neither of them can purchase wine.), but I do want to know what the hell she thought they'd be doing at his place.
For real adults, 'come back to my place' is 'let's get cozy and see where this goes'. For teenagers, and even immature adults (And a 19-year old dating a 14 is immature, but more to the point, she is a teenager, so she should expect it.) 'Come back to my place, where there are no parents' means 'Let's fuck'. Well, in a way, it means that for adults, too, but it is more an optional thing, whereas kids have to wrangle a place to go, so it is more 'expected' that it's going to happen when they finally get there.
Anyway, they should teach this in sex ed. It's a perfect howto on how to get yourself date raped: Invite an invite back to the guy's place on the first date.
I would think this was the victim's fault to some extent (And every time I say that, I have to mention that I don't believe fault is additive or subtractive, so he's not any less to blame.), but, um, she's a kid. 14-year olds shouldn't be going out on dates like this. 14-year old dating should be 'We're going out to eat. You and your boyfriend can sit at your own table and talk about whatever you want, and maybe wander around the mall a bit when you're done.'. Letting a 14-year old get hauled around by a 19-year old on a date is just completely irresponsible parenting.(1)
And knowing how fucked up our educational system is, she probably got abstinence-only education that didn't even mention date-rape.
OTOH, there's absolutely no reason to sue MySpace for all this. Like I said, her parents, and probably her school, are both more at fault, and more to the point, legally responsible for her welfare, whereas MySpace is like the mall tht all the kids hang out at that's just where they met.
1) And I don't care if she 'snuck out'. Engendering the level of mistrust withn your child that she'd do that is also irresponsible behavior. The most important thing for a parent is to be trusted, because being trusted is the only way to keep someone safe.
Ask yourself why, for example, assaults against prostitutes are rarely reported. You shouldn't be, as some people claim, your child's friend, but you should always be their ally, and past a certain point, you should never punish them for problems, even if it's their own fault, that they bring to you to help with. Because otherwise they'll just have the problems and not tell you.
Re:Hang on... (Score:4, Interesting)
Women having sex consensually, and then crying rape afterwards is NOT uncommon...and coule have very well happened in this case.
Re:Informed consent (Score:4, Interesting)
According to this article [usatoday.com] by the age of 15 about 25% of people will have had sex. (It's the nifty table down the page a bit.)
Whether they're ready for it or not doesn't seem to matter if 1 out of 4 of em are doing it.
In my mind it becomes difficult to say why a 14 year old should only be making bad choices with other 14 year olds, or would they be better of with people of other age ranges.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why ?
Really? Could have fooled me (Score:5, Interesting)
1) the girl alone is to blame for getting raped (as is usually the argument in this kind of a situation: a lot of guys seem to be _very_ quick to join in the chorus that there must have been something the woman said, or wore, or just being at the guy's house, or just being in a park alone, or whatever, that _clearly_ absolves the guy of any fault and makes rape entirely the woman's fault.)
2) the girl surely said "yes" and only she or her mother lied about it afterwards
3) (or maybe 2.a.) that for that matter the girl should have known that if she goes to a guy's house she's _expected_ to put out, so that is obviously "yes" enough for any guy, and obviously her fault if she acts surprised if the guy goes ahead and rapes her
4) She obviously lied about her age, probably even had a faked ID at that, and certainly any 14 year old looks just like a 19 year old. (Wonder why the paedophiles don't just go for 19 year olds, then, if they supposedly look the same as a child anyway?)
And several variations of the above. Complete with the usual blanket generalizations (e.g., surely if the guy had a car, the girl wanted to fuck him) that obviously justify the blanket conclusion that in any imaginable case one of the above applies.
Not saying that that couldn't have been the case, but the way they're passed for definitive truth before even knowing what happened there, is... strange.
And at any rate, far from being biased against the guy, I see only a lot of people who are _certain_ that it was the girl that's guilty before even making her case.
Frankly, all that's missing so far, to make the edifice of preconception complete, is the standard Slashdot blanket generalization "there are no women online, and any 14 year olds are male FBI agents." Presumably noone has yet figured how to make that fit a rape case, what with having to be present in court and go through a medical examination or whatnot. Kinda hard to fool all those that you're a 14 year old girl if you were a 40 year old guy. Still, I'm surprised that noone at least tried posting that. Kinda feels like not Slashdot without that being posted half a dozen times in a topic about people meeting online.
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, if he was 18 would that really have made any difference at all? Wouldn't he still be a bit sleazy (even if they had a real, loving relationship at that age 4 years makes a big difference) even if he hadn't sexually assaulted her. Knowing that she was 14 that would typically make her a freshman and a freshman dating a senior would be more or less accurate to the age range here.
Myspace is no more to blame than if she was sexually assaulted by an actual 19 year-old she met at school or any other public place if she met a guy there who claimed to be a senior.
Most tellingly though is that she went out with him and then he date-raped her. She apparently had no problem dating the guy or at least it was never mentioned that she did or that upon meeting him she realized that he was apparently older than someone she'd want to date (and hence, the issue in question since MySpace isn't an age-verification service). She should simply press charges for sexual assualt and be done with it.
Re:How can they? (Score:2, Interesting)
Relevant to this thread in particular and a very interesting read for anyone.
There is a real problem lately with everyone seeing everything in black and white, victims and pedophiles, terrorists and patriots, Us VS Them.
Re:Outlandish, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
Courts are ususally pretty good at throwing crap lawsuits out. You just never hear about those suits. The suits that make the headlines are the ones that have big payouts, and those are usually exaggerated by the press to sound worse than they are. The "hot coffee" lawsuit is a good example of exaggeration at the expense of the victim. Most people agree that it was a crap lawsuit, but they don't really know the specifics of it. If you are one of those people that think it was a crap lawsuit you should look up the details of the case and your opinion may change.
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yea your mom knew who you where friends with but then you didn't have 600 "friends" from all over the world chatting with you on MySpace.
The world is a different place. With the Internet you have almost all the advantages of living in the biggest city in the world with the best libraries in the world. You also have the disadvantages of living in the biggest city in the world with the most adult book stores and peep shows in the world.
Think of the Internet as being like a great kids club with a great library located in a really bad red light district.