Microsoft Developing iPod, iTMS Competitor 304
Software writes "Reuters reports that Microsoft is developing an iPod and iTunes Music Store competitor. Few details are available, but it's known that Robbie Bach (the man behind the Xbox) is heading up the project." From the article: "Most iTunes rivals charge monthly fees to access a catalog of entertainment, but some allow consumers to buy individual songs for about $1 each. Microsoft's service will emphasize the pay-per-download, or a la carte, model, the sources said. A subscription component will also be offered, according to early accounts of the planned service. One source, who has seen a demonstration of the service, said it was an improvement over iTunes."
Vaporous (Score:4, Insightful)
!!?
<grrr
OK... but why (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone seriously disagree with me that Windows Media Player is a bloated piece of shit? Ever since like.. version... 6.4? MS has been trying to add every possible little thing to it... they are trying to make it so that it is the ONLY program you will ever need to run on your PC... personally I am all for decentralization but I realise there are some users who want to open up one program and then start typing an e-mail and buy movie tickets within the same app (a few years off in WMP)...
Easy way to win... (Score:3, Insightful)
Innovation! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Vaporous (Score:4, Insightful)
They're quickly becoming the Jack of all trades, master of none.
Re:XBox/360 integration? (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft Business Plan (Score:3, Insightful)
-Charles
Origami? Urge? MSN Music? Helllooo? (Score:5, Insightful)
sorry MS, not like old times (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought they already had an iTMS competitor... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:3, Insightful)
the article is a troll (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:5, Insightful)
But in the case of the iPod, they want to compete against it for the same reason Apple created it: to introduce people to the Macintosh. Apple doesn't turn much in the way of profit on iTMS; it's just there to drive people to the iPod. The iPod does turn a profit, a pretty good one, but more importantly it gets people used to the idea that Apple products just work.
The iPod has astonishing market share despite the presence of cheaper, better-equipped alternatives. If people jump from Windows to Mac on the strength of that, it jepoardizes Microsoft's market share. At this point they depend vigorously on being the default OS choice. Erode their market share a little, and you open the door to eroding it a lot, as people no longer have to buy a Wintel box just to keep on the same page with their friends.
There's also the fact that a big company can never stand still. Just producing revenue isn't enough; they have to produce more revenue. One way to do that is to diversify, especially if you can diversify and still leverage your products in other areas. MS can do that big time.
For example, if they have a new, stronger DRM scheme (based, say, on Palladium), they may be able to get record companies to give them a price break, or even sign up those companies who don't trust Apple's FairPlay to protect their property.
MS can leverage their OS control (to give their device a performance hack that Apple can't get). Maybe they can leverage the Xbox, perhaps a plug on the side of an Xbox for their music player, or being able to build a handheld game device leveraging both the Xbox and music player platforms.
I don't know what they've gamed out, but basically, MS will try all of it. The downside, of course, is losing focus: it's usually better to make 1 good product than 10 shoddy ones. That's less about technology and more about management. MS thinks it has good management. On that, we'll have to see: the slips in the Vista schedule don't speak well to that.
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:5, Insightful)
One way MS could "support the iPod" would be to release their own, replacement, OS for it that incorporates support for PlaysForSure(tm). When you connect your iPod to Vista it would ask you if you would like to configure your iPod to use music from MSSuperMusicStore(tm), and would flash your iPod with their OS.
There are already replacement OSes for the iPod running Linux, it wouldn't be difficult for MS to make a WinCE-based OS that supported their DRM, etc. I don't know that Apple would have any chance or recourse then...
Re:XBox/360 integration? (Score:1, Insightful)
See also: why get into the browser market? (Score:5, Insightful)
Likewise "Search". There's quite a bit of revenue there, of course, but it wasn't until GMail, GTalk, GExcel (just kidding) popped up that MS really felt the heat from google's platform.
No, the iPod is not a platform. But OSX is, and if there isn't a microsofty competitor to the iPod then that little device's users are eventually going to discover that Macintoshes are -- as a whole -- quite a bit better than XP boxes. (Vista I set aside for the time being)
Just thinking aloud here.
Re:XBox/360 integration? (Score:5, Insightful)
Many Universities require you to own a PC these days. WHen I went to school 5 years ago, the percentage of people who didn't own their own PC or laptop was vanishingly small- under 10%. The computer labs were only used for special software (say a CAD program), alternative OSes (Unix), and people who wanted to check their email between classes.
I can't say I know anyone who doesn't have their own PC at home. And definitely noone who owns an Xbox but doesn't own a PC.
THey still have access to a PC. If mom and dad are going to buy them an MP3 player, they'll let them on for a few minutes to download music.
Thats utter bullshit. Even in the US where Xbox came in second, less than 10% of all Xbox owners ever logged into Xbox Live, by MS's own numbers. You read a fluff piece on the Xbox somewhere.
I'm trying to find more recent numbers, but 40% of households owned a PC in the US in 1998 with 76% ownership in urban middle class households. The telephone was only 93%. This is a decade later. The people who don't own a PC don't have it because they can't afford one. And they sure as hell aren't buying $50 a month internet access for a game console.
There is nobody who does not own even a shitty PC, yet owns an Xbox and is willing to pay $50 a month for internet access to play online with it. MS may have other ways it can push its service, but the market you think it can address just doesn't exist.
Re:Winning in this market will be easy... (Score:2, Insightful)
Give it away.
Seriously, if the most environmentally unsound thing you do this week is throw away a CD, you're doing just fine.
Ah yes... (Score:3, Insightful)
If this takes any significant market share of iTunes / iPod, I will eat my hat. At the end of the day, it has to be more than 'an improvement' over iTunes - we all know how quickly Apple can roll out big changes to their products, and all it takes is one or two small updates to put Apple back on top IF do release a product which is better.. but (and lets be honest about this) I really doubt they will.
Re:OK... but why (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:3, Insightful)
weird.. (Score:3, Insightful)
There ain't no money in it... Apple sells music at a loss to encourage sales of ipods.
The "wildly successful" xbox also sells at a loss (correct me if I'm mistaken).
So, unless they're determined to burn thru all their cash, what does this mean, if not a perpetuation of overpriced OS & apps to pay for the other stuff?
Re:Microsoft Business Plan (Score:3, Insightful)
'Is it just me, or does it look like ever since Steve Ballmer took over the reigns Microsoft's business plan can be summed up as "Whatever Google/Apple is doing, we're gonna compete with that."?'
It's a winning strategy, and has proven effective on all levels of the food chain. It's called scavenging. Example: lions use tremendous cunning and skill to trap and kill their prey. Some are injured or killed in the process, but the risk is worth it.
Hyenas, on the other hand, simply follow the lions.
Re:Vaporous (Score:2, Insightful)
same with xbox (Score:2, Insightful)
BUT, Xbox 360 is now out. The Xbox was eventually established and now the major selling point for the 360 is the same used for the PS2, backwards-compatibility. PS3 is arriving late, and although it will be more powerful, no one will have a good reason to blow $500-$600 when they JUST bought another console that has more content available to it. Nintendo is smart not to directly compete with the 360 because it would lose. You have the Wii for the simple, social, have-your-friends-over games and the Xbox 360 for the hard-hitting immersive action games.
Anyway, Microsoft is not competing with today's iPod. They're going to be competing with tomorrow's iPod, the one you haven't bought yet. I wouldn't be surprised if this product ends up being a loss-leader. Face it, no one is going to throw away their iPods for another service, no matter how much better it is. But they might consider it when the battery dies yet again, the screen is scratched, they're tired of the music they have, etc. and they're ready for something new. Microsoft will still be there, and by then it will be refined, offering more flexibility and giving you the choice of several different devices. Now if only they can make them look sexy and not like a tape recorder from 1986.
Microsoft Service (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember the major record producers originally had their own "stores". They charged a monthly fee, charged for downloading, and then your music couldn't be transfered to other devices and would expire after two or three months. For some strange reason, it wasn't very popular.
Remember that iTunes and the iPod came out before the ITMS. Apple used it as a demonstration on how popular an MP3 player could be, and how easy it was to copy songs from CDs and share them with friends. There was *no* DRM on the original iPods. Jobs turned around and negotiated the store. He insisted that they sell all music for the same price, that the music wouldn't expire, and that users would have some means of sharing it. In return, Apple created FairPlay which made the record executives a bit less nervious about selling electronically.
Apple also made ITMS "Mac Only" as a demonstration product. This way, the music executives could see how it might actually be good for the industry. Once they were satisfied about the security and sales, they allowed Apple to ship the Windows version of iTunes.
Apple recently again did battle against the record industry. Remember a few months ago that the industry wanted to do away with "one price" pricing? Apple insisted that 1). All music would be the same price, and 2). That it would remain under a dollar.
Does Apple do this because they love us? Nope, it's because Jobs has a clue of what people want, and has a vision how things should be done.
Microsoft will simply try to overload the player with features, then use its Windows monopoly to push it upon the market. All PCs will come with the software, and the service. If you put in a CD, the service will be the default way it will play. The Microsoft designed music players will be unhappy on any machine, but Windows, and will insist upon Windows Vista. They'll come up with the service specs, and will design, but not necessarily produce the system. They will put pressure upon their "business partners" to produce the players, and to bundle them with their PCs. You will get the Microsoft approved device and you will love it.
This is a bit old, but explains why Microsoft couldn't make an iPod: .
This should go over well... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'l sure they'll all understand that they were really just preparing a market for Microsoft, and will quietly close up shop. Certainly, none of these companies such as Creative Labs has ever shown any tendency to cause trouble or litigate. I'm sure they can all simply rely on the US Justice Department's oversight and Microsoft's honoring the DOJ settlement and consent decree to ensure that Microsoft won't try to extend it's monopoly here.
Mac fanboys: "fud" does not mean "I disagree" (OT) (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously there are probably better examples of FUD (U and D in particular overlap somewhat).
This is rather like the lamentable practice that some losers have of abusing the moderation system to bury posts they disagree with. Troll and Flamebait do not mean I disagree, nor does Overrated. When you disagree with a post or a story, the proper response is to REPLY. Let's face it, the reason we all come to Slashdot is for the comments. The days when Slashdot was the place to get current news are long gone -- there are a host of other sites that post this stuff days earlier, fail to dupe, and care about accuracy more than sensationalism. The reason that I don't read these much (and my guess is that it's the same for 90% of the rest of Slashdot) is because regardless of how many spelling mistakes there are in the story submission here, the comments are filled with lucid and interesting analyses of anything and everything.
I guess what this means is that you have a choice: you can either be a coward and use loaded tags or abuse the Troll/Flaimbait mods to comment, or you can actually post content that will help keep Slashdot interesting and the Slashdot masses informed.
Despite what everyone says about "the hive mind" and "getting modded down for going against the grain", I personally have never experienced this phenomenon. Have you ever noticed that nearly every lucidly written post that goes against established mantras and includes the magic line "I'll probably be modded down for this" makes it to +5? The whiners who go on and on about how "The Slashbots are against me!@@!!11one" usually can't write worth squat and such fail to inspire any reaction other than "You're stupid" from the Moderators. It's true that the reverse is not true, which is sad: some twat who clearly didn't pass elementary school English can write "M$ is the suxor! Lin0x is the win@!!" and get to +5 if he posts early enough, but despite this unfortunate reality the truth of the matter is that you can post wildly unpopular opinions and get modded up if you phrase your ideas in an interesting, informative, and non-flamebait way.
Since I'm going on about not abusing the tagging and moderation system, it's only appropriate that this be modded Offtopic, which it is. Mods, do your worst.
Re:Vaporous (Score:3, Insightful)
Hell, look at google. They became massively successful because they were great at what they did ( search and advertising ). Now what are they doing? Lets see... getting into the email space ( gmail ), buying up calendaring software, mapping software ( Google earth ), Flikr like graphics companies ( Picasso ). On top of that, buying up dark fibre for dog knows why, as of yet. Plus they seem to be trying to push their way into the office suite with their new spreadsheet.
Its the nature of the beast. I could have just as easily picked Yahoo, or Ebay as examples, as they have both made high profile but non specialized moves as of late. Its just what happens, when you tap out your market share, you need to move into new markets. "Breaking even" just aint good enough. Hell, investors would rather see a company lose money trying new shit out then they would seeing the same company break even time and time again. They really have no choice in the matter.
You blame Apple for Linux's inability to play AAC? (Score:3, Insightful)
MP3 is ISO MPEG 1 Layer 3
So because Linux can't play AAC, Apple is at fault? If Linux can't play MP3 files, is it also Apple's fault because Apple also provides you the option of encoding in MP3?
And iTunes originally did support multiple hardware because the iPod wasn't released until 2001, and iTunes is at least as old as 1999. Creative's Nomad did indeed work with iTunes, and it may still if it is a mass storage device, but I don't know anyone who has tried since the iPod was released.
Re:Winning in this market will be easy... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:2, Insightful)
A portable mp3 player with another gig of space that plays ogg for 50 bucks less may be a "better-equipped alternative". But the interface isn't as good, I can't share its accessories with my wife and coworkers, and it won't integrate into iTunes or my car stereo. Those are all features too, and they are more important to me than another 150 songs and ogg playback. (Although ogg playback *would* be a welcome addition to the ipod.)
Dupe! (Past, present and future) (Score:2, Insightful)
This year they're releasing a new version of media player with MTV branded store by default. It'll be the next big thing. Well, we're guessing not because they're already planning the next next big thing. Sounds like this incarnation was a flop.
So they have this one planned. It'll be hyped as the next big thing. It'll likely flop and they'll likely work on the next one. And the next one. And the next one.
Who knows, maybe someday they'll eventually stumble on how to get it right. Unlikely though in a genre where being "hip" is important and they the generic big, grey company that your mom uses to do word processing. Of course Walmart isn't "hip" either and yet they virtually control the music industry because they're everywhere and can simply reach more consumers whilst forcing prices lower.
The point being that it's too lucrative a market for Microsoft to just ignore. There'll always be some project or other in Redmond until they either crack it or the end of days comes when the antichrist steps down from day to day operations and starts walking the earth.
Oh.
Shit.
Reality Distortion Field (Score:3, Insightful)
This is just one more example of MS swallowing their own hype. They think they are good at what they do but they're not - they are just aggressive, lucky and unpleasant and that's how they got to be top dog in one area for a short time. It can't and won't last. History shows that hubris rarely lasts long.
Re:MS good for consumers (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple's approach is to not announce anything, let the speculation build, and then surprise people, usually with a great, well thought out product. Almost every time they release a product it has at least one feature that no one saw coming. Microsoft's approach is FUD, rushing products to market despite issues, and using their monopoly power to try to create other monopolies. Having a long run approach with an inferior product means you have to be cheaper and you have to be considered "good enough." They pulled it off with the computer because it's a big expensive purchase. It won't work with a $150 portable music device.
Re:It'd have to be an unmicrosoft solution (Score:3, Insightful)
Other than the part about Bill and Gil sitting around having coffee and hashing out the details, you're almost right!
The details will never be widely known, but Apple let Microsoft off the hook very gently, compared to what could have happened - from the scuttlebutt at the time, MS was really over a barrel with the QuickTime lawsuit. It also ushered in a new era of "let's not fight" between the two companies, who compete, but have stayed away from suing each other for nearly ten years now.
hey anti-Mac fanboy (Score:2, Insightful)