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Alex Chiu on Science, Religion, and Politics 296

Posted by Roblimo
from the only-on-the-Internet dept.
Almost all Slashdot interview guests are suggested by readers. One week we might invite a physicist; the next week a tech-interested politician or lawyer; the week after that an outstanding programmer. And once in a while we choose someone off-the-wall -- like Alex Chiu -- to keep things from getting too serious around here. Please realize that not every Slashdot interview is going to be your particular cup of tea, but it is someone's. (And, of course, you can send your interview guest suggestion to roblimo@slashdot.org. I read every one.) But enough of that. Let's turn the floor over to Alex Chiu, purveyor of Eternal Life Rings and decidedly non-mainstream opinions on religion, science, and politics.

Question:
If you were to end up dying someday, who should I contact for a refund on my eternal life device?

Alex:
The Immortality Device Inc is a corporation. So if I die, somebody else from the corporation will take over the business.

Question:
Assuming I were to live forever, why should I want to? As many tales have been written, one grows weary of seeing friends come and go and children age and die. It's a heavy burden, what's there to counter balance this need for immortality, other than simple fear of death?

Alex:
Well, if you don't want your relatives and friends to die, help me spread the news. Let people know about immortality device. That way, your loved ones won't die. Why do people fear death? Because in the bottom of your heart, you know death is no good. You become a soul which has no body. Another word, you become a homeless ghost. It might feel good to be out of your body for awhile. But you can't stay like that forever. Then you must look for a new body. That's what we call reincarnation. If you go to Disney world, it might feel fun at first. But after 2 days straight in the campus, you feel tired. You then want to go back home. If you divorce, you feel free at first. Then you start to feel lonely and you want to remarry again. Same with souls. They can't survive without a body for long. Souls are designed to fit inside a body. Souls are not designed to float around in thin air.

Question:
you cite edison, tesla and einstein as people who were "laughed and scorned at," presumably as parallel figures to yourself, but we can't help noticing that you're sort of missing something. edison, tesla and einstein were great scientists who, through a thorough and accurate understanding of the best scientific learning of their day, applied existing principles in groundbreaking and unexpected ways to advance contemporary physics. you, however, are applying your ignorance and lack of understanding of high-school level science - skimming through textbooks, parrot-learning words like "unique frequency," "magnetic flux" and "negative charge" - and producing your own bastardized version of contemporary science via the tried and tested method of 'just making shit up.'

you seem to be mesmerised, rabbit-in-headlamps style, by the magical idea of magnetism. apparently you're an intelligent enough guy, but please for your own magnetic god's sake educate yourself on the basic concepts of science, starting with the other three fundamental forces (or is it two? unification is so awkward!). cells don't cluster together because of magnetism. animals don't run from danger because they are "repelled by the negative energy." hey, maybe some form of teleportation will be possible in the future, but chances are it won't be courtesy of the fantastically well-thought-out "transmitting the unique frequency of an object." a quick vote amongst ourselves decided that gravity isn't caused by static electricity when the earth's core rubs against the crust, and as a race we're fairly certain that the sun isn't hot because of friction between its "layers". while you appear to be sure that you're pioneering, pushing the edge of science and coming up with fascinating and groundbreaking new ideas, it might be prudent to base your fantastic new theories on intelligent observation and existing science (as edison, tesla and einstein all did), rather than just gazing into space and pulling things out of your eternally-young ass. so the sun produces heat via some kind of "rubbing" process rather than nuclear fusion, mm? do you have some empirical evidence for this astounding revelation - which would be required to counteract the huge body of proof and data accumulated over the years for what we'll call the 'Enemy Theory' - or are you (all together now) just making shit up?

how a ufo works? hey, man, slow down! why not read up on how a gyroscope works? why don't you make one and try it out for yourself? it doesn't "defy gravity," it's not magic or magnetic or anything else even approaching alliterative mysticism. no, seriously. trust us on this one. it precesses, resisting any force that tries to tilt its axis of rotation. this is simple - honestly! we'll use italics! - simple newtonian physics; a gyroscope only "defies gravity" when it has something against which to exert a force. an unsupported spinning object will just drop like a stone unless it has astounding aerodynamic properties (which isn't what you're talking about) - try it for yourself! um, with a plate, or something! unless you've got some kind of inbred aversion to deduction by empirical observation!

we could go through your site and identify countless other examples; you're not being groundbreaking, you're not an eccentric genius of science who's thinking in new ways that nobody else would even consider. you're just blinkered and wrong and obsessed with making huge sweeping deductions from your own misguided half-cooked internal reasoning processes. which is a pity, because your conviction and dedication to your ideas is admirable. it just makes us sad - and moderately angry - to see an entire site de lindly concoct enough unfounded shit in your head, independently of any evidence or informed reasoning, it'll become true if you close your eyes and say you believe in fairies.

feel free to respond - whenever the mood of your flux allows.

Alex:
I know my theories and findings are hard for you to accept because they are so original and extraordinary. But one day in the future, you will see that I am right. You will be foreced to accept my invention as millions of people around you tell you that I am right.

Question:
I think that a lot of the people who visit your page think that you are a bit of a loony and a lot of a profiteer. While I like the fact that you offer 'free' rings in exchange for a donation to certain charities, I can't help but feel that you are probably not using the best of peer-reviewed science to back up your ideas.

Despite this, I bet you feel that what you're doing is pretty important.

Tell us then, Why do you think no medical experts come forth to do studies on your devices or reccomend their use?

For some this will be a vindication of your ideas. For others it will be a glimpse into one of the minds that makes the web as truly a strange and wonderful place that it is.

Alex:
Oh there are lots of doctors and medical professionals out there who buy my devices at whole sale price. We have lots of doctors and medical researchers who are loyal customers. They are blended in with the rest of the customers. Immortality Device has been tested and researched by medical researchers all over the world from time to time. They email me and told me what they found. I post their results sometimes on my site.

Question:
magnets have been around in this manner for many years - new age style people, etc. have been encouraging the use of magnets on the feet and hands for as long as I can remember. why is your way better, why didn't theirs work, and what proof and facts do you have? your website was not very forthcoming on that last issue, though you claimed to have both.

Alex:
I didn't say my invention is better, nor did I say other stuff does not work. As the inventor of the Immortality Device, I basically just tell people what I honestly think. I think my device makes you immortal. And I am being honest. My proof is lots of people used the device and gave testimonials. If you don't accept testimonials as proofs, you won't accept any proof as proof.

Question:
Have you ever tested your immortality devices in terminally ill patients in a double blinded placebo controlled study. For example, have you recruited a cohort of cancer patients, applied a randomization technique whereby one group gets your device(s) and the other receives similar, yet inactive rings and braclets? Certainly, if your products provide immortality then none of the subjects in the active group would die. With that amount of statistical power, it would be simple and relatively cheap to demonstrate your claims.

Alex:
Gee. I think some doctor in New York is doing that for me right now. Our company cannot afford to do this kind of expensive research at this stage. This kind of research would cost hundreds of thousands. I rather use that money on advertising. Testimonials are enough to convince people for now. I think even if I did the research mentioned above, it would be a total waste of money because if those people don't believe in the testimonials, they won't believe in the research at all. They would say that I made it all up. So why waste money?

Question:
A discovery as important as yours will not go unnoticed, especially as you publicize it as far and wide as you have in seeking to earn your capitalist profit as is your god-given American right (rooted in the 5th, 14th, and 10th amendments of THE CONSTITUTION). The only question is, who (or should I say "Who"?) will do the noticing?

Government agencies and secret police forces are your first threat, as they are for every righteous individual in this orwellian world of thought police and governmental indoctrination. No government can turn a blind eye to something as fundamentally anti-government as an immortality device. It may be too late for them to make Stalin or Roosevelt (there is no difference) immortal, since they died during the era where man did not interfere with GOD'S wish that we live and then DIE. But it is not too late for CLINTON or BLAIR or any other Liberal deity, and they certainly don't want you to have it in any event.

But the threats to your safety aren't confined to this planet alone. The alien races that populate our solar system and beyond may possess technology superior in every way to our own, but they have not yet perfected immortality. (I know this only through Divine providence and what I have witnessed with my own eyes: an elaborate Alien burial ceremony deep within the UN complex on sovereign American territory.) Your device would be of great help to their intergalactic conquests, and though they may respect you as a man of science, you are but one small pawn on a small blue planet in an undusted corner of their empire.

Be forewarned, cher Alex. Your continued safety is of the utmost importance to the survival of free Americans and the human race (excluding communists). Lead us to the promised land, but tread carefully. They are watching.

Alex:
Well. I just carry this stuff as long as I can carry. It's important to let people know about this invention.

Question:
How long have you been making these amazing devices? If fewer than 130 years, please describe how you *really* know they work? If >= 130 years, please prove you aren't one of those bouncing Chinese vampires by eating 5 "bundles" of sticky rice and posting the video on your website.

Alex:
How do scientists know the diameter of earth? Must a scientist walk the equator in order to tell you the exact diameter of earth? How do scientists figure out how far is the sun from earth? Must a man fly to the sun in order to measure the exact distance? I don't have to live 130 years in order to tell you what my device does. We gather scientific evidence (testimonials) in order to base our assumptions.

Question:
Perhaps your only rival on the internet is Gene Ray, the man who discovered Nature's Harmonic Simultaneous 4-day Time Cube.

Despite the fact that his work contradicts much of your research, he also faces similar obstacles in having his work accepted or at least evaluated. No "institution" of higher education will even return his calls. I spoke to him via phone recently, and Mr. Ray believes that this is because they're run by fundamentalists engaged in some kind of conspiracy to keep the truth away from the public. He was understandably very frustrated by this.

I can't help but to wonder if other scientists face the same problems. Can you offer a correlating viewpoint? In your efforts to have your work accepted, or at least taken seriously, do you find that fundementalists are a large obstacle? If so, do you believe that this is out of their own ignorance, or that maybe they do in fact have a sinister motive as Mr. Ray suggests?

Alex:
Oh. I don't think there is any conspiracy going on. I just think that most of the people are very close minded. I show people how to build their own immortality device. I even give out free devices to our members. But still lots of people disbelieve me. They say I don't have any proof. They say I can't possibly invent such a thing. My biggest challenge is the group of close minded people, which is the majority. Honestly, being a doctor could make you more close minded than regular people. If you are a doctor, you think you are better than the rest because you've studied more than 15 years in a famous university. You hate to see a Mr. Nobody like Alex Chiu comes up with an invention which can do 100 times more than what you can do. You hate to see a Mr. Nobody beats you to the ground which makes you the real Mr. Nobody. So some of these doctors would just ignore my stuff in order to save their own faces.

Question:
Alex Chiu, you're obviously very interested in religion, especially things that are written in the Bible or Torah (from your site: http://alexchiu.com/philosophy/beastsign.htm). In fact, on that page, you claim that people who do not believe in the Bible are "Antichrists".

So let me ask you this: are you comfortable selling me some of your rings and giving me, an Antichrist, immortality? How does your God feel about helping me, an Antichrist, live forever? Or will your rings not work on an Antichrist? (I didn't see that exception in your claims.)

Alex:
If you are an antichrist, you won't believe in the bible prophecy from the beginning. Which means, you won't believe that physical immortality will become possible. Therefore, if you are a real antichrist, you won't even consider coming to my site and read what I have to say. You are not a real antichrist. An antichrist is a person who does not believe the bible (old testament only). An antichrist thinks that all bible prophecies are a bunch of crap. They think those prophecies will never come true. Therefore they don't believe that immortality will ever become possible. I live with a whole bunch of these people. None of my neighbors believe in what I say. They refuse to wear the rings. They will never accept my invention until the day they die. That's what I call the real antichrists. Antichrist is a person who disbelieve the bible prophecy (old testament only). They don't believe people will become immortal and that earth will be transformed into a heavenly place.

Question:
On your site you state: "I am not a Taiwanese. I am Chinese, and I wish China will one day take Taiwan back, peacefully or by force, at any cost! A Taiwanese who does not consider himself to be Chinese does not deserve to become immortal." Do you wish for Taiwanese citizens to be exterminated?

Alex:
I came from Taiwan. When I was in Taiwan, I was taught in school that Taiwan is part of China. Everybody back in those days never questioned about that. But now all of a sudden some idiots in Taiwan start to say that they are not Chinese. Their grand parents were Chinese. But for some reason, they feel they are not Chinese. That's very rediculous to me. How would you feel if you are from New York, but now you moved to Florida. One day you heard on the news saying that New Yorkers are asking for independence. The New Yorkers now say they are not Americans. They are "New Yorkans". So because you came from New York, you must be a "New Yorkan"? You are no longer an American? Those Taiwanese who say they are not Chinese should go to hell right now. I don't care what political party is controlling China right now. All I know is we are all Chinese. I am proud to be Chinese, and I do not tolerate any traitor. If the communist party is controlling China, they represent China. The X Taiwanese president "Lee Deng Hui" says he is a Japanese. Well, if he is a Japanese, why does he care about Chinese people's business? I feel that China has every right to take Taiwan back. It's nobody else's business. If you defend Taiwan and fight against the Liberation Army, you are automatically a traitor. Taiwan has been part of China for centuries. Why did Lincoln decide to reconquer the south? I came from Taiwan. But since communist party represents China, communist party is my party. Liberation army is my defender.

Question:
How do you explain your views if You were born in the U.S. and not China are you not an American?

Alex:
I am born in USA. USA is my mother, and China is my father! I love both places.

Question:
China repeatedly abuses and tortures its citizenry, including Chinese forced abortions of Tibetan women? Wouldn't Chinese deserve not to become immortal?

Alex:
I think the Chinese government is doing a great job right now. I support population control. I think USA should do the same. If you want to have more than 1 kid, you should pay more tax. The enemies of China always use "human rights issues" to attack China. But if USA has 1.3 billion people, USA would have the same human rights problem just like China. You cannot expect so much freedom in a land of 1.3 billion people. Chinese government is doing such a great job that China not only feeds its own people, it also feeds most of the Russians. Most of the food imported to Russia came from China. You guys always talk about human rights. But why can't you guys mention about "government rights"? Chinese government has the right to do whatever it must do to protect China. That includes population control and the liberation of Tibet. Do you know that before Tibet was liberated, you can buy and sell slaves in Tibet? In the old Tibet, you can have slaves, you can marry 4 wives, but you cannot take a bath for 1 whole year, and you cannot meet a foreigner. You can skin your slave alive, and you can kill your slave when ever you desire. The entire Tibet is ruled by a bunch of religious idiots. You can't take a bath for the entire year, and you can't trade with foreigners. Cummunists don't allow that! Liberated Tibet and kick out that stupid Dalai Lama, whatever that moron's name is. You guys don't know how much Tibet has changed. Most families in Tibet now has electricity. TV, VCR, stereo, micro-wave, you name it. Everything's made in China! They have shopping malls and super markets there. There's stock market brokers there. In fact, Tibet is one of the most popular European tourist attraction of asia. If Dalai idiot is still around, you be buying and selling slaves there right now! Everywhere would stink like hell because nobody teaches you the importance of taking a bath. If you say Tibetans are not Chinese because they have their own language and culture, let me ask you this: Is Hawaii part of USA? Is Okinawa part of Japan? Okinawa people have different language and culture than the Japanese. So should Okinawa gain independence from Japan?

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Alex Chiu on Science, Religion, and Politics

Comments Filter:
  • by Roblimo (357) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:57AM (#168412) Homepage Journal
    What makes you think there isn't a cheesy Immortality Device Web Ring? :)

    There is [yahoo.com]!

    - Robin

  • by Roblimo (357) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @11:03AM (#168413) Homepage Journal
    I believe Alex Chiu is a living example of the sort of thing you can do on the Internet that you couldn't do without it. I believe Alex Chiu's insights on life, the universe, and everything are every bit as scientifically valid as those of the (late, lamented) Douglas Adams. I believe Alex Chiu has taken online self-promotion to a level few others have dared to try. I believe Alex Chiu has admirably thick skin; that whatever doubt you cast upon his statements, he will tell you that he is right and you are wrong.

    Imagine a software company CEO with a vision and sense of his own rightness as strong as Alex's. Even if that person's company wrote pretty rinky-dink code, I'll bet it could end up dominating the desktop computer operating system market.

    What I admire most about Alex Chiu is that sense of rightness. Most of us, confronted with rational evidence that we are wrong, change our minds. Not Alex! He plugs on no matter what you say about (or to) him.

    Remember, you don't have to believe in christianity to enjoy Handel's Messiah, and as the old ad slogan put it, "You don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's Rye Bread."

    - Robin

  • by jandrese (485) <kensama@vt.edu> on Thursday June 07, 2001 @10:17AM (#168414) Homepage Journal
    If CmdrTaco hadn't put that disclaimer there, you can bet that the first 100 posts (there would be 500 in the first 15 minutes alone) would consist of people alternativly calling CmdrTaco an idiot for believing this sort of thing, and asking why in the world this was on Slashdot. I think that little paragraph really shot up the signal to noise ratio for this discussion (right now the s/n ratio is much higher than I thought it would be, and it looks like most people are taking the time to read the article!).

    In other words, pull the stick out of your ass and enjoy the little diversion. Maybe in a few months Slashdot will interview Jack Chick or Archie Plutonium or someone other net.kook.

    Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
  • Yes, it's called the Post Anonymously button.

  • by Ben Hutchings (4651) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @12:44PM (#168422) Homepage
    Scientology is based not on science but on the inventions of L Ron Hubbard, a one-time writer who appeared to have trouble distinguishing between fiction and reality. LRH had a similarly weak grasp of science to Chiu but sadly had quite a lot of success in proof by repeated assertion.
  • Mr. Chiu states, "I support population control. I think USA should do the same. "

    If that's so, then why in the HELL do you want to invent an immortality device? If population control is the way to go, isn't it kind of assumed that we need to let the old farts die off? Does he also suggest that we prevent any future conception? I'm sorry, but, "If you want to have more than 1 kid, you should pay more tax," isn't much of an argument against having kids.

    Not that this matters since the rest of what he has to say is out right bullshit. I've never seen such inept and trite replies in my life.

    *cucko* *cucko*

    And that's all I have to say about that.
  • Actually, testimonials are the only form of scientific evidence. The difference being that in his case, he didn't do a controlled study of testimonials. How else would you know if someone feels better unless they tell you? Thinking that there is some way to come up with _pure_ fact without the interference of the human element is plain arrogant. The only difference is that the scientific community requires that the testimonials being randomly selected and have controlled dosages. But remember, even then, the only thing you have proving that the dosages were correct are testimonials.
  • You're missing the point. X-Rays require the testimonial of the X-Ray operator. MRI's require the testimonial of the MRI operator.

    In addition, tests such as X-rays mean nothing. The actual outcome that's being looked for is what counts. For example, getting rid of cancer is not the end we're going for. Living a long life is. If living a long life includes keeping the cancer in some form, it doesn't matter what the actual tests show.
  • This whole interview reminds me of the scene from The Princess Bride when the hero of the movie listens to the rambling, illogical Scilian and then says:

    Clearly, you have a dizzying intellect.
    --
    "In the land of the brave and the free, we defend our freedom with the GNU GPL."

  • by Byteme (6617)
    Our company cannot afford to do this kind of expensive research at this stage. This kind of research would cost hundreds of thousands. I rather use that money on advertising. Testimonials are enough to convince people for now.

    Now that made me laugh... but I do speak from experience. I am one of the many people that put up my referral link on my homepage to get enough clicks for my neodymium eternal life rings (took the link down after the rings arrived). I wore them for a few hours total, while I demonstrated the rings to my friends and relatives. I am still alive! I am not sure if it was the rings, but that is my testimonial. Thank you Alex!

  • But what's really sad is the whole multi-billion dollar fraud-based industry in America.

    It's all well and good to bitch about fraud, but without con artists like Alex Chiu running around, the 20% of his customer base that are actually helped by the placebo effect would be worse off. And the other 80% learn a hard lesson for only twenty-five bucks.

    If he were advising people to buy his rings instead of seeing a doctor, then he'd be a menace. As it is now, he's pretty harmless as charlatans go.

    --

  • by ch-chuck (9622) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:19AM (#168438) Homepage
    but this quote:

    death is no good. You become a soul which has no body

    is remeniscent of the good ol' confusion of the mind/body [crosswinds.net] (or Spirit/Ghost etc vs physical reality (whatever THAT is)) split, which is itself a ghost and purely a fabrication of the rational mind artificially confined to the realm of symbols and speech, which are necessarily dualistic.
  • Alex:
    Gee. I think some doctor in New York is doing that for me right now. Our company cannot afford to do this kind of expensive research at this stage. This kind of research would cost hundreds of thousands. I rather use that money on advertising. Testimonials are enough to convince people for now. I think even if I did the research mentioned above, it would be a total waste of money because if those people don't believe in the testimonials, they won't believe in the research at all. They would say that I made it all up. So why waste money?


    Lots of advertising? Lots of hot air? No R&D?

    Are we sure Alex isn't involved with RAMBUS?

  • I hereby testify that Alex is a nut. As he accepts testimonials as scientific proof, he must now accept his mental illness as a proven fact and get the help he needs.
  • How is it that every single discussion here gradually turns into a MS vs Open Source argument? Seriously, you guys must be a blast at parties ... "Hey, man, you want a beer?" "Speaking of free beer ... "
  • One of the questions contains:
    ...edison, tesla and einstein were great scientists who, through a thorough and accurate understanding of the best scientific learning of their day, applied existing principles in groundbreaking and unexpected ways to advance contemporary physics.
    and again
    ...it might be prudent to base your fantastic new theories on intelligent observation and existing science (as edison, tesla and einstein all did), rather than just gazing into space and pulling things out of your eternally-young ass.

    Edison, OK. However, both Nikola Tesla and Albert Einstein did "gaze into space and pull things out of their asses".

    Einstein, in his own works, specifically disclaims "thorough and accurate understanding of the best scientific learning" and all his work is based on "thought experiments" that he performed while basically sitting on his butt.

    Tesla, on the other hand, was pretty clearly a deeply disturbed man (worse than Edison on that account - descriptions of Tesla's obsessive/compulsive eating habits are pretty entertaining) who made dozens of wild claims and predictions that are quite well documented. Many of his claims have turned out to be true - but they were not based on the "best scientific learning of their day" unless you consider Tesla's childhood hallucinations (look up how he claimed to have hit on the idea of the brushless universal AC motor) to be "scientific learning".

    Sometimes nuts are also visionary. But neither condition proves or disproves the other.

    --Charlie

  • Even contemplating a way to 'live forever' is hersay.

    Did you mean heresy or hearsay? The first is, of course subjective. Cast ye the first stone? Incidentally, you sure make G-d sound like a big bully.
    It's almost like flying. It reminds me of the story of Icarus. Trapped on a lonely island with only his mother and father, Icarus developed a way to fly by encasing feathers in wax, and attaching them to his arms.

    Real religion majors also usually have a basic grasp of classical mythology. You do have the fundamental concept of hubris, here, but Icarus didn't develop anything, his father Daedelus built the wings... and used them successfully without suffering divine retribution.

    Here's a question for you, Mr. Metatron (and if you don't get that reference you should give up now) Why do English-language translations of the Bible translate the word "SHEOL" as "HELL" when it literally means "place of death", as in a graveyard or tomb? And why do the same bowlderized Torahs translate a word meaning "an indefinite period of time" to specific, and inconsistent, periods of time ranging from "a moment" to "eternity"?

    If you really are a religion major, I suggest you change seminaries immediately. You do not seem to be learning religion, but rather basting in your own ignorant zealotry. Seek enlightenment elsewhere, and if you want to grok the Bible don't use the politically-influenced English translations.
    --Charlie

  • by Neon Spiral Injector (21234) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:20AM (#168448)
    An antichrist is a person who does not believe the bible (old testament only).

    How is one come about the term antichrist, if they only believe the old testament?

    --
  • As the inventor of the Immortality Device, I basically just tell people what I honestly think. I think my device makes you immortal. And I am being honest. My proof is lots of people used the device and gave testimonials. If you don't accept testimonials as proofs, you won't accept any proof as proof.

    Self-deception, unchecked (and obviously anti-common sense) scientific-sounding theories (with liberal religious jargon like "soul interspersed), and functionless merchandise. Alex Chui sells billions of dollars worth of merchandise a year. Along with the rest of the Alternative medicine crowd.

    http://www.quackwatch.com/

    What's really sad is not this lone wacko, but the thousands of people be they selling homeopathy, Accupuncture, or Aura/Touch/Aroma/Therapy. These non-healers all make their money the same way, by claiming testimonials are scientific evidence (they are not, and will never be), by claiming wierd non-scientific theories, which are wrong if anyone bothers to look closer than a cursory glance (but most people see the scientific-looking jargon and just stop reading further, satisfied that the producer of the non-remedy thought more about it than they will).

    This man's business is just as wrong-headed as scientology. The only difference is that it is less popular. If he had his way, everyone would buy his immortality device, and would then buy his happiness stick, and his extacy food, and his, well, you get the idea. He could be making up wierd, wrong, theories for his whole life, which is exactly what local tribal healers have always done, and which is why we live about twice as long as most of the ancient tribal cultures.

    But these tribal doctors never really go away, and they have been brought, along with the gullable population, into a world in which most of the people can readily (through the general knowledge dispersal channels) see through such basic, stupid schemes to sell useless junk.

    How many dreamcatchers have you bought?

    This is what it all comes down to: As long as the internet can allow fraud like alex chiu's website and http://www.scientology.com/ http://www.homeopathy.com/ to make their unchecked, wrong-headed, stupid scientific-sounding logic, than the population who tries to find out how to live forever will be denied finding THE REAL INFORMATION with search engines.

    If half the internet information is lies, than will the internet ever really help advance mankind? Alex Chui was one of the first of a bad breed of liars to take their dis-services to the web. I hope it stops eventually.

    -Ben

  • by Benjamin Shniper (24107) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:34AM (#168451) Homepage

    I don't have to live 130 years in order to tell you what my device does. We gather scientific evidence (testimonials) in order to base our assumptions.

    I think even if I did the research mentioned above, it would be a total waste of money because if those people don't believe in the testimonials, they won't believe in the research at all.

    Well. I just carry this stuff as long as I can carry.

    Shoot, he contradicts himself so many times, it's incredible. But what's worse is that he will keep on selling useless crap and dispensing useless theories and advice until someone stops him. (or people stop buying.) If he should go back to China, he'd be prosecuted there. America's too friendly to alternative-non therapies. But China could actually do something about him.

    But what's really sad is the whole multi-billion dollar fraud-based industry in America.

    -Ben
  • by twoflower (24166) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:18AM (#168453)
    This kind of research would cost hundreds of thousands. I rather use that money on advertising.
    Kind of says it all, doesn't it?

    Twoflower


    --
  • Actually, I thought this one summed it up even better:

    We gather scientific evidence (testimonials) in order to base our assumptions.

    If "testimonials" count as "science" and are a valid substitute for double-blind clinical trials, there's really no point in trying to apply reason to this guy.

    - StaticLimit
  • How dare you invoke Douglas Adams and compare him to this guy. We could power California by strapping magnets onto Douglas's corpse and generating electicity from him spinning in his grave.

    To think that Douglas Adams inspired satire and gift for clever humor are comparable to Alex's writing is beyond just being a stretch...

    I certainly agree that this is an example of how one can advance his ideas through the internet, and I definitely agree that Alex must have very think skin (but not as think as his skull if he actually believes any of the stuff he's saying).

    I frequently enjoy reading online about such silly concepts as "eternal life rings" written by people who think a "testimonial" from Joe in Montana who's been wearing the rings for 6 months and gosh he isn't dead yet are a substitute for actual science. But I think that this is not so much an example as it is a warning. There are a lot of gullible people out there who are willing to believe "reason" issued forth from people who are capable of ignoring science and logic. And while Alex and his "Eternal Life" rings are harmless and perhaps even fun, there are people pushing much nastier philosophies on the web and the power that they and their adherents are able to project using the web are rather frightening. I think that we need, as a community, to actively debunk any serious attempt to propogate such fallacies...

    - StaticLimit
  • by majcher (26219) <slashdot@nOsPam.majcher.com> on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:14AM (#168457) Homepage
    I have one thing to say:

    UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED, ESPECIALLY to COMPUTER BULLETIN BOARDS.

    Seriously, he's mildly amusing, but as whack jobs go, Chiu is strictly third-rate. I'm sure he wouldn't get any play if he wasn't basically offering free stuff [alexchiu.com] to people who put banners on their site. Until something more interesting comes along, I'll stick with the classics, like McElwaine [umich.edu] and Ludwig Plutonium [newphys.se].

  • Well, you could look at it from the same perspective as Judaism. The old testament gives many prophecies for the arrival of a savior. The term "christ" comes from the Greek "christos", meaning anointed..."christ" then is really more a title than a name. So, who THE christ is (and whether or not he's shown up yet) is dependent on your beliefs. An antichrist, depending on definition, can be anything from the devil to simply a person who actively does not believe in the existance (past, present, or future) of a christ.

  • In the words of a great American teacher:

    "We are all stupider for having heard that."
  • If you want to have more than 1 kid, you should pay more tax.

    Limit couples to only 1 kid? Or did you mean per person? His and Hers? Limiting couples to one kid would quickly reduce the population.... hey wait a sec... if we're all going to live forever, why allow any kids? Besides, those of us with more than 1 DO pay more taxes, or more specifically, our kids end up contributing more. You're going to need extra kids contributing to social security if you're planning to retire at 65 and live forever after that...

  • by D3 (31029) <daviddhenning@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 07, 2001 @11:10AM (#168462) Journal
    If magnets are so great to promote long life, why do hard drives DIE!?!
  • Hey flip-flop,

    thanks for your answer. I'd like to refer you to my earlier post, from which I quote: "it's a socio-geographical fact right now that won't change."

    And it is. Tibet has been assimilated into China, forcefully and wrongly, but it has. From a sociological point of view, the Chinese view Tibet as part of their country, and there's nothing anybody else can do about it. From a geographical point of view, nobody has any influence whatsoever over that region of the world, apart from China. It's called empire-building, which is what China has always been - an Empire, made of smaller regions. I abhor what happened to the people of Tibet, but we can't do jack about it. We never could. We never will be. It's not in our power. We'd have to nuke all of China to get them to relinquish anything, and even then, they probably wouldn't without force.

    Do you understand that? It has nothing to do with the Nazis. Invoking the Nazis in an argument and comparing your discussion partner to the people who let them do their thing is a sure way to end the discussion. It's called the 'Invoking Hitler' argument.

    Now it's nice that you ignored my point about Native Americans. How about giving them back their homelands? Or how about giving Northern Ireland back to the Republic of Ireland? Socio-geographical facts, old boy. Big countries, weaker, small, non-developed neighbours. Assimilation. Empire-building. As I said, China's been doing it for longer than people like us have eaten from bowls not made of our enemies' skulls.

    Comments appreciated.

    ATB
  • Hey,

    I hope you get to read this. You made a very well-thought-out argument there, and many of your points (in fact nearly all) are correct. They don't apply to my original view, though - let me explain.

    your response to the last post and your basic premise is not only fundamentally flawed, but actually harmful and insensitive

    That's true. It was never meant to be sensitive - what China did was insensitive, the world's reaction to it is insensitive (making China the US most favoured nation, trade-wise, etc), and everybody's approach to it is insensitive, because in the end, it won't matter. I was using Native American extermination - their culture surviving in much a way that Tibetan culture survives now - as my example. I am not saying that it's right, I am saying that in the long term, the plight of the Tibetans and Tibet will be similar to that of Polynesians (?) and Native Americans; they will be absorbed into a greater whole, and only rudiments of their society and culture will continue to exist.

    That is what I was referring to as a socio-geographical fact. I don't like it. I'm predicting what I think the future will look like.

    you need to protest against it and do your best to both prevent it happening again and rectify the situation if possible

    this is a similar situation. the only difference is that china is a large nuclear power that no-one is strong enough to stand against, for fear of consequences

    That's what makes it a s-g fact. This is why comparing it to Nazi Germany is wrong. Nazi Germany could be beaten or persuaded to change (we saw which one happened). I reiterate my earlier point: without nuking China off the face of the planet, they will forever occupy Tibet and insist that Taiwan is part of China. They won't relinquish that. That is what I was referring to when I was pointing out a socio-geographical fact. We can't change that. I'd love to, but we can't.

    It's a bit like a murder perpetrated by the highest-up General in the US Army, with the Army standing behind him, and refusing to let any consequences affect him, down to protecting him from those in government who should be able to remove him. It won't happen. Police cars don't cut it against tanks.

    and the claim that china has been conquering it's weaker neighbours since before western culture developed still does not justify it

    But you're RIGHT, it doesn't! That won't change the fact that they'll use that excuse, and due to the aformentioned and much-invoked s-g facts we won't be able to do squat about it. That's why the Tibetan will become like the Native American. Hell, in 20 years the Chinese will probably put out a coin or a bill with the Dalai Lama's face on it, the same way that the dollar had a Native American's face on it.

    I could also mention that there is a new 'Dalai Lama', more or less appointed by the Chinese. And that Tibetan religious culture is being assimilated to accept him. And that this will, in the end, (unfortunately) work.

    i think that the argument comes down to: the would may be shit, but you don't have to accept it. shout and stamp your little feet when the would is being crap and eventually it'll improve

    No. You need big feet to stomp. Ideally, to stomp on. Not even many little feet will help, open source methodology fails here. I am honestly convinced that not even a democratic Chinese government would not relinquish Tibet and their claim to Taiwan.

    And yes, it's fucking depressing that some things won't change because that's how they've always been. But that's how many things in life are. Maturity and adulthood means knowing which things in life can be changed, and which can't.

    ATB (email me: xugumadNOSPAM@yahooremoveme.com)

  • by at-b (31918) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:32AM (#168465) Homepage
    Well, they do say 'they laughed at Tesla, Edison, and Einstein.' Unfortunately, they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Alex Chiu strikes me as being closer to Bozo than any of the aforementioned.

    However...

    Some of the things he said actually struck very close to the core of things, simply because political correctness nowadays completely prevents many people from thinking them.

    Here's one:
    If you say Tibetans are not Chinese because they have their own language and culture, let me ask you this: Is Hawaii part of USA?


    Reminding me of an old Onion article, that one is very true - Hawaii was pretty much assimilated after being occupied and used as a military base.

    And about the notion of the peace-loving, religious, harmony-seeking Tibet being occupied by the evil Chinese - that's not total bunk, but a lot of it is nonsense. The Dalai Lama may be a nice guy, and a lot of atrocities did happen in Tibet, but Tibet is part of China and will forever be - it's a socio-geographical fact right now that we won't change. Complaining about that is a bit like complaining about Native Americans being murdered.

    Sorry if this came out a bit flame-like, but I feel very strongly about certain things like the US' incessant complaints about human rights when people are being locked up right here and nowbecause they try to expose Scientology as the murderous cult they are [xenu.net]. Human rights are a very complex issue, and China does have more than one billion people living in a country much less developed than the US. The US struggled with overpopulated inner-city ghettoes where human rights are an afterthought, but continues to point out the issues in countries that are struggling with gigantic problems.

    How would the oh-so horrible blackouts in California look like if 300 million people lived there? Compare that to the populous regions of China?

    Again, sorry if this drifted off-topic. I'll read and answer to responses, though. Thanks.

    ATB

  • I was hoping slashdot would interview the guy in the goatse picture, so we could at least figure out how the hell he got into ramming traffic cones up his ass. But really, you're right - any random person would be better. A stiff in the morgue would at least respond with a profound silence rather than this babbling gibberish!
  • by SpinyNorman (33776) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:24AM (#168470)
    I find it hard to believe that some babbling head case with a pyramid marketing scheme was even in the top 1 million people that people on slashdot would have an interest in seeing interviewed.

    How about filing this stuff under "pure shit" so that I can filter it out like I have Katz?
  • by Guttata (35478)
    Is this some sort of cruel fun, to take somebody with obvious mental problems, and gather around them to make fun of them?

    Seems just, well, mean.
  • I really don't care what he says. The fact that I tried to leave and kept having new windows opened made me not want to have anything to do with him.

    He can have his religeous, political, and philosophical views no matter how much I disagree, or how wierd. He can even sell eternal life rings. I don't really care, but when he annoys me with javascript, he needs a good beating.

  • by Hard_Code (49548)
    OMG...this guys is for REAL? I thought it was all some quirky in-joke, like the Church of Subgenious.

    Man, now *this* is scary....
  • by WinDoze (52234) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @10:24AM (#168480)
    We gather scientific evidence (testimonials)

    I had no idea how much scientific evidence I'd been dismissing as advertising all these years!
  • > How do the pr0n and other popup ads on [Alex's] site relate to eternal life?

    Well, I suppose if you put enough pr0n on a male user's screen, something's bound to rise again...

  • > Is this some sort of cruel fun, to take somebody with obvious mental problems, and gather around them to make fun of them?

    Yes, it is.

    Doesn't make it any less fun ;-)

    Schadenfreude [everything2.com] is an art form. For an example, watch Jerry Springer [jerryspringer.com], particularly the last 20 minutes of the show, in which audience members rediscover the Elizabethan art of bear-baiting.

    (Side note. Yeah, we gotta get an interview with Jack Chick. I like this "Loon of the Month" idea.)

  • by Tackhead (54550) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:21AM (#168484)
    > If you don't accept testimonials as proofs, you won't accept any proof as proof.

    The cry of the quack everywhere.

    Yeah, I know Slashdot was just trollin' when they decided to interview Chiu, and I think both the "Ask Alex Chiu" and his responses constitute some of the funniest shit I've read this week.

    But to get serious for a minute: If you're interested in quackery, check out http://www.quackwatch.com [quackwatch.com] for all the dirt.

    In the case of Alex, he hits pretty much all the buttons on How Quackery Sells [quackwatch.com]. Bravo!

    > How do scientists know the diameter of earth? Must a scientist walk the equator in order to tell you the exact diameter of earth? [ ... ] We gather scientific evidence (testimonials) in order to base our assumptions.

    Alex, m'boy, you wouldn't know the scientific method if it propositioned you on the street and asked for a rim-job.

  • I found this one funny:

    Fade To Black: How long can a person wearing your "Eternal Life Device" expect to live?

    Alex Chiu: As long as the user doesn't get killed in accidents or be murdered by someone or die from a severe disease, the person would continue living.

    No shit?

    Q U A C K
  • by Coward, Anonymous (55185) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @10:23AM (#168486)
    Testimonials ARE NOT a scientific evidence

    Maybe not, but it's certainly promising that all the testimonials are positive. Not one person has come forward saying that they have died after using the immortality ring.
  • by joq (63625) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:19AM (#168489) Homepage Journal

    Personally I think people should look into the true findings about the claims of magnetic healing [randi.org] which this guy mentions.

    In human nature many people let their emotions get the best of them and this is what I perceive this guy is doing, feeding off the emotions of people who'd think they can live longer via some device.

    Stepping back take a quick look at life in a realistic perspective if you will:

    Things go round animals of all types come and go through evolution, nothing lasts forever.

    Biblical look; You die and supposedly go to $INSERT_YOUR_HEAVEN/HELL/ETC here.

    People have been making these claims for so long it would take you eons to sort through the bs people have concocted. So while this guy claims doctors have bought my product, etc, etc, I've yet to see documentation from any credible source on this guy's claims.

    So called Psychic Sylvia Brown does the same thing too feeds off the emotions of people. She claims to have been hired by Law Enforcement Agencies worldwide, etc., but cannot back her claim [randi.org] as most of these people can't either.

    Doesn't matter though a sucker is born every minute and as long as no one takes the time to analyze things in a realistic manner the Alex Chuis and Sylvia Browns will always be around to feed off of emotion.
  • But now all of a sudden some idiots in Taiwan start to say that they are not Chinese. Their grand parents were Chinese. But for some reason, they feel they are not Chinese.
    ...
    I don't care what political party is controlling China right now. All I know is we are all Chinese.

    There's a big difference between ethnicity and citizenship. Some people do care what government is controlling China. It's easy for a person living in the U.S. to not care what government controls the lives of the people of Taiwan, but I'm sure it's a little different if you live there.

    One day you heard on the news saying that New Yorkers are asking for independence. The New Yorkers now say they are not Americans.
    The government in Taiwan used to be the government of China. The communist government took over the mainland, but not Taiwan. Perhaps the communists are the legitimate government of the mainland--assuming that the people of the mainland supported the revolution (I don't know the historical details, so I won't comment further on that), but apparently the peole of Taiwan wanted to keep their former government.

    A better analogy than yours would be if most of the U.S. decided to toss out the Constitution and start over, but New York decided to keep it. The rest of the country would not have the right to deny New York the right to keep the Constitution.

    If the communist party is controlling China, they represent China.
    Might makes right? If the people of a region disagree with the policies of a government, then that government does not represent those people.

    I feel that China has every right to take Taiwan back. It's nobody else's business. If you defend Taiwan and fight against the Liberation Army, you are automatically a traitor.
    It's certainly Taiwan's business. By your reasoning, the Liberation army is an army of traitors, because they fought against the government during their revolution. By your reasoning, the goverment of Taiwan is the legitimate government of China.

    Taiwan has been part of China for centuries.
    Does that mean they have to go along with all the policatal changes that people in another part of China choose?

    Why did Lincoln decide to reconquer the south?
    Your best comment yet. I question this one myself sometimes. I will point out one difference though: In the Chinese revolution, the Liberation Army was fighting against the existing government. In the U.S. civil war, the north was fighting for the existing government. Whether that was legitimate, I'm not sure.

    You guys always talk about human rights. But why can't you guys mention about "government rights"? Chinese government has the right to do whatever it must do to protect China. That includes ... the liberation of Tibet. What about the "government rights" of the people in Taiwan and Tibet? Why don't they get to protect Taiwan and Tibet?

    In the old Tibet, you can have slaves,
    So the old Tibet had problems. If that justifies takeover by China, then I guess it would be justified for someone to take over China to solve it's problems. If there were still slavery in Tibet, I'm sure there would be as much noise being made about that today as their is about human rights issues in China.

    you can marry 4 wives
    You could marry 4 wives in the Old Testament, and there are still other places in the world where you can do that. Personally, I don't see any particular problem with that--as long as none of the wives are being forced to marry into that situation. Not that I would want multiple wives myself.

    Liberated Tibet and kick out that stupid Dalai Lama
    Who's more credible, Mr. Magnet who doesn't understand the concept of scientific proof, or a Novel Peace Prize winner?

    You guys don't know how much Tibet has changed. Most families in Tibet now has electricity. TV, VCR, stereo,micro-wave, you name it. Everything's made in China! They have shopping malls and supermarkets there. There's stock market brokers there. In fact, Tibet is one of the most popular European tourist attraction of asia.
    Guess what, the rest of the world has made a lot of the same changes during that same period of time. "Everything's made in China"? So what. If it hadn't been made in China, it would ahve been made somewhere else--perhaps in Tibet. I can't imagine the European tourists are going to Tibet to see the shopping malls and stock brokers. More likely they're interested in see the remains of Tibetan culture before they're completely destroyed. Or the geography. In any case, I greatly doubt that it has much to do with the changes China has made there. Judging from the economies of various countries around the world, I wouldn't be surprised if Tibet would have been better off without communism's "help".

    Everywhere would stink like hell because nobody teaches you the importance of taking a bath.
    Did you know that westerners stink to people from other parts of the world? Stink is totally based on what you're accustomed to. To me, farm animals stink, but some people love the smell of them.

    If you say Tibetans are not Chinese because they have their own language and culture, let me ask you this: Is Hawaii part of USA? Is Okinawa part of Japan? Okinawa people have different language and culture than the Japanese. So should Okinawa gain independence from Japan?
    Again, ethnicity and culture are not the same as politics. Almost every country has culturally and ethnically diverse people. I for one don't argue that tibet should be independant because of cultural differences. I think they should be independant because they once were free to live their own way, but that freedom was taken from them by a revolutionary goverment which they did not support.

    As for Hawaii and Okinawa, maybe they should be independant. Maybe they don't want to be indepndant. (I'm sure there are those who do and those who don't in both places). I don't know the answers to these questions myself, but it seems clear that the people of Tibet and Taiwan do want to be independant, and have good arguments for why they should be.

    "What happens when an irrefutable argument meets an immovable opinion?"

  • by The Musician (65375) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:16AM (#168493) Homepage
    "If you don't accept testimonials as proofs, you won't accept any proof as proof."
    Hah! Proof by emphatic assertion. Nice way to support your arguments.
  • by zappe (65931)
    But at least you repented of it. Thank you for that. It is pretty sad to watch this. Especially to see only two comments that note that this is a deplorable action. Even the questions are cruel. When I first read them, I thought it *had* to be a joke it was so bad. But then I realised, it wasn't a joke, and felt my stomach go down into my legs.

    Also, to a more general audience, if he is actually giving away rings, he obviously believes this, wholeheartedly. So we attack him, rather than the people *selling* cheap ceramic magnets at the store for $10 a pack, with approximately as much "scientific evidence" that Chiu has, and probably less belief in their own product. (I don't understand why he has a patent if he gives them away, but normal logic seems to have left the building a while ago...)

    Man, it sure makes me believe that the Internet is going to produce a "great society" like you always see on here. Not that I believe that gigantic lie anyway, but if you're going to espouse it, at least try and live up to it.

    People don't kick others when they're down in any "great society" that I know of.

    And for a people that have so many stories on mockery and picking on in school, maybe Jon Katz should do a story on how you guys pick on people not in your on clique, and propigate the same old story. This man is heavly decieved, and needs help, not people picking on him, and attacking him cruelly on a public site. I'm sure that all true geeks reading this can remember being made fun of in front of (what seemed like) the whole school. Remember how much that hurt?? That's exactly what you are doing to this man! Maybe it's because you believed something different, and maybe you found out later that you were wrong!

    This whole thing just saddens me. :-( Slashdot must apoligise to this man, this is horrible.
  • Reality Check? This guy? A magnet on a ring is all he's selling, aside from the rhetoric.

    If slashdot if going to start pulling reality checks and recovering their "logical edge" as you say, I suggest they at least get some smart and informed interviews with people like Robert Anton Wilson or Dr. Dean Radin not a Grade-A wacko like poor Alex here.

  • What the heck is going on here? I go to this guy's sight thinking, maybe some new technology or science is out there, maybe some new movie is coming out, maybe some news for nerds, or even some stuff that matters. And I'm looking at this crappy site (which starts to make me dizzy), that starts rapid firing up pop-up ads (aka goatsex) for pr0n. Is this some kind of sick joke?
  • You dont understand. This is the /. vetting process for a new potential editor. Clearly, this guy is Editor-in-Chief material.
  • L. Ron Hubbard is dead, yet he still seems to be writing books.
  • There's a homeless guy at the bus stop near here. I'm positive Slashdot readers would love to hear this guy's outlook on life, death, cardboard, and the edible lifetime of old french fries.

    If you don't want people to make fun of stupid articles, don't post stupid articles. Duh.
    --

  • by SIGFPE (97527) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:35AM (#168526) Homepage
    ...and put a bogus interview between you and some purveyor of 'eternal life rings'. It's a bit embarassing.
    --
  • He's comment on blindfold testing by professionals:

    Gee. I think some doctor in New York is doing that for me right now. Our company cannot afford to do this kind of expensive research at this stage. This kind of research would cost hundreds of thousands. I rather use that money on advertising. Testimonials are enough to convince people for now. I think even if I did the research mentioned above, it would be a total waste of money because if those people don't believe in the testimonials, they won't believe in the research at all. They would say that I made it all up. So why waste money?

    (I just read this far, as I have physics exams tomorrow and need to be somewhat quick)


    A. If a medical journal posted a review of you technique, that told it really did cure cancer, aging or whatever, the PR/marketing value of this would be undescribable. There would not be a SINGLE individual on the face of this planet who would NOT want hi's stuff!

    B. This is a typical way of showing a dissbelive in science and traditional ways of thinking. Although the placebo effect may come into play and help people, this is no better than religion healing, and he HAS to realise this, unless he don't want to, or have no interest in seeing his product's miracle proven.

    C. If he realises the two point abow, how could he affoard NOT to do it? Imagin you sitting on the source of eternal youth, and NOT wanting everbody in the world to have this? He has to be the world's BIGGEST ego!

    Now, the real point of mine is that these things have been seen so many times before, although his claims are quite strong. Non-scientifict stuff sounds much simpler, and many many people buy it. "Religion is opium for the masses" said marx, and this is not far from.

    Have 50000 docors say this is a reality, and I'll buy a 25$ ring.


    Mvh:
    - Knut S.

  • What really bothers me is my brilliant question wasn't moded up enuf to ask him! (briefly sumarized) I asked if he drew any inspiration from the "Power Bracelet" in NES zelda!!
  • luck?
  • by Raymond Luxury Yacht (112037) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @11:34AM (#168534) Homepage
    You shouldn't have read it. The guy can be summarized with two [barnhillbolt.com] words [tomark.com]...


  • Chiu:"No really it just looks like he's on fire and in pain. When it's all done there will be some dust left behind from the "secret process" we use but that's easy to clean up. Really he's being transported to a far away world, that's lush and green and has many naked women. And for 19.95 you too can go, please help us with population control by 'transporting' yourself to a better place."
  • The official stance of the Chinese government on religion is that religion == mysticism == backwards == innefficiency. Workers should never be innefficient in a communist country therefore religion should not be tollerated. Chinese are allowed to follow "religions" or practices that make no mention of miracles, magic, God, etc. If it's science based, it's good (makes me wonder why Scientology hasn't taken off, it's science based right?).

    Chiu is a walking contradiction and the perfect representative for communist china's government and psuedo-moralistic stance.

  • No, no, it's properly under Internet, alright...as in "Heaven's Gate".
    --
  • Population control != population reduction

    True, but

    Population control ==
    fn(births,deaths)
    Even the thought of immorality should send shivers down the spine of population control-freaks, er, proponents.
    --
  • by rjamestaylor (117847) <rjamestaylor@gmail.com> on Thursday June 07, 2001 @11:14AM (#168542) Homepage Journal
    Also he follows the old testament, but claims hes a chinaman pure... funny i thought the majority of chinamen did'nt follow the old testament or most western religions exsclusivly...

    You'd be surprised how many Christians there are in China. There are over 20 million underground Christians in China right now -- these are true believing fundementalists who risk their lives for their beliefs. There is also State run Christian Church (the 3-Self Movement).

    As a matter of fact, a very popular devotional author, Watchman Nee, born in the early 1900's, was a third generation Christian and his grandfather was a native Chinese Methodist minister. He was imprisoned for 20 years and died there(suspiciously -- after one of Nixon's aides inquired about his health). His books are very popular around the world.

    It's funny what we assume when we don't know. It's also funny for people to see people equate religion to culture - which seems correct but is not absolute. Belief can transcend culture.
    --

  • by rjamestaylor (117847) <rjamestaylor@gmail.com> on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:23AM (#168543) Homepage Journal
    "I support population control."

    Oops. Death is an important part of population control - you're amazing technology is versus this benefit. Destroy your technology now or the earth will be completely overrun with immortal humans who CANNOT DIE and make room for others.
    --

  • Testimonials are enough to convince people for now.

    Translation: Instead of doing something which has a 75% chance of drastically reducing my sales, I'll do something which has a 75% chance of slightly increasing them.

    Remember, it's not how much you spend, it's how much you save... right?

    --
  • We gather scientific evidence (testimonials)

    What thesaurus is this guy using?!

    --
  • As per Gene Ray's Time Cube site [timecube.com]:

    Singularity equates sex with the baby.

    I couldn't put it any more succinctly...

    --
  • Imagine a software company CEO with a vision and sense of his own rightness as strong as Alex's. Even if that person's company wrote pretty rinky-dink code, I'll bet it could end up dominating the desktop computer operating system market.

    I knew Bill had a twin brother! If you have more proof, liberate it for all the world to see!!! :)

    --
  • There was a flood in a large city. As the water rose, everyone climbed onto the tops of their roofs. One particularly religous christian started praying

    Later, his neighbour passes by with a small speedboat. "Hey," he says "Hop on in, and we'll get out of here."

    "No" repiled the man "For I shall be saved by God"

    The water continued to rise. Later, an emergency rescue boat passed by, and stopped by the man.

    "Quick, get in!" says the captain "You have to get out of here. That water's ice cold!"

    "Thank you very much," replied the man "but I still have faith that god will save me."

    Once again the boat left. The water rose further and further, until the water was up to his neck, and he could barely stand on his roof anymore. A federal chopper came through, airlifting the remaining survivors.

    "Come with me!" said the guy on the end of the rope "There's no way you can survive much longer!"

    Sputtering and yelling over the noise of the chopper, the main replied "My faith shall bring me through! God shall save me!"

    And so, the man dies. As part of the process, he is allowed to ask god a single question. He steps up to the blinding light and asks "God, why didn't you save me from that awful flood"?

    "Hey," says god. "I sent you two boats and a helicopter. Don't come complaining to me now."


    Save a life. Eat more cheese
  • by porky_pig_jr (129948) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:03AM (#168554)
    Interview with Ron Hubbard and Jon Katz?
  • Everyone who mailed Roblimo [slashdot.org] asking for this interview, up against the wall. We're very forgiving people here at slashdot, but this cannot go unpunished.
  • Ok fine.. 20 million out of 1.2 billion...thats about 1.6% of the population???

    Yes, but your contention was that being Chinese and a believer in... well, whatever it is he believes in, just couldn't be. The post you're responding to here was trying to point out that love of country (or heritage) and a particular belief system that isn't mainstream aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I'm sure that 1.6% of the population (if the numbers are correct) represents many who are also proud of their Chinese heritage.

  • Apparently he wanted to give immortality to the world. Just think of him as a junk-science RMS.
  • Psychoceramics == the study of cracked and brittle minds??

  • I can't spell

    So shot me

  • by slashdoter (151641) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @10:12AM (#168576) Homepage
    Karma cap here I come!
    I'm not going to link to the everything2.com [everything2.com] nodes, here is the list. [everything2.com]
    [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Question:
    &n bsp; you cite edison, tesla and einstein as people who were "laughed and scorned at," presumably as parallel
    &n bsp; figures to yourself, but we can't help noticing that you're sort of missing something. edison, tesla and einstein
    &n bsp; were great scientists who, through a thorough and accurate understanding of the best scientific learning of
    &n bsp; their day, applied existing principles in groundbreaking and unexpected ways to advance contemporary
    &n bsp; physics. you, however, are applying your ignorance and lack of understanding of high-school level science -
    &n bsp; skimming through textbooks, parrot-learning words like "unique frequency," "magnetic flux" and "negative
    &n bsp; charge" - and producing your own bastardized version of contemporary science via the tried and tested
    &n bsp; method of 'just making shit up.' ..................(it's a really long question)

    &n bsp; Alex:
    &n bsp; I know my theories and findings are hard for you to accept Attacking the Person because they are so original and extraordinary. But one day in the future, you will see that I am right. Proof by Assertion You will be foreced to accept my invention as Millions of people around Appeal to Popularity you tell you that I am right.

    Question:
    &n bsp; I think that a lot of the people who visit your page think that you are a bit of a loony and a lot of a profiteer.
    &n bsp; While I like the fact that you offer 'free' rings in exchange for a donation to certain charities, I can't help but
    &n bsp; feel that you are probably not using the best of peer-reviewed science to back up your ideas.

    &n bsp; Despite this, I bet you feel that what you're doing is pretty important.

    &n bsp; Tell us then, Why do you think no medical experts come forth to do studies on your devices or reccomend
    &n bsp; their use?

    &n bsp; For some this will be a vindication of your ideas. For others it will be a glimpse into one of the minds that
    &n bsp; makes the web as truly a strange and wonderful place that it is.

    &n bsp; Alex:
    &n bsp; Oh there are lots of doctors and medical professionals Anonymous Authority out there who buy my devices Non-Support at whole sale price. We have
    &n bsp; lots of doctors and medical researchers who are loyal customers. They are blended in with the rest of the customers.
    &n bsp; Immortality Device has been tested and researched by medical researchers all over the world from time to time.
    &n bsp; They email me and told me what they found. I post their results sometimes on my site.

    Question:
    &n bsp; magnets have been around in this manner for many years - new age style people, etc. have been encouraging
    &n bsp; the use of magnets on the feet and hands for as long as I can remember. why is your way better, why didn't
    &n bsp; theirs work, and what proof and facts do you have? your website was not very forthcoming on that last
    &n bsp; issue, though you claimed to have both.

    &n bsp; Alex:
    &n bsp; I didn't say my invention is better, nor did I say other stuff does not work. As the inventor of the Immortality Device,
    &n bsp; I basically just tell people what I honestly think Prejudicial Language . I think my device makes you immortal. And I am being honest. My
    &n bsp; proof is lots of people used the device and gave testimonials. Appeal to Popularity If you don't accept testimonials as proofs, you won't
    &n bsp; accept any proof as proof.

    At this Point I would add more but something more important came up Attacking the Person , I got invited to the new supper Walmart. I think I made my point. Circular Definition

  • by slashdoter (151641) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:23AM (#168577) Homepage
    Rather than reply to you, let me just list the Logical Fallacies

    Argument from Ignorance [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Appeal to Popularity [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Style Over Substance [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Coincidental Correlation [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Fallacy of Exclusion [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Joint Effect [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    Failure to Elucidate [everything2.com]
    [everything2.com] [everything2.com]

    There are more so let me just link to the index [everything2.com]

  • by connorbd (151811) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:20AM (#168578) Homepage
    Fads and Fallacies by Martin Gardner. It's an ancient book (1953) but a great read for the student of psychoceramics (of which I have been, on and off, for several years now).

    I also wish to point out two things:

    "'They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Columbus...' 'They also laughed at Bozo the Clown.'" Traditionally attributed to Carl Sagan, but I suspect he wasn't the first.

    Schopenhauer was flat-out wrong. Plenty of truth gets accepted with no struggle at all, and the only people who quote that particular statement seem to be those with axes to grind anyway.

    I actually think this is a good interview for Slashdot because it serves as a reality check. We do need to be familiar with these sorts of people less we lose the logical edge that made us geeks in the first place...

    /Brian
  • by ErikTheRed (162431) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:19AM (#168580) Homepage
    "Eternal Life Rings"... sounds like some sort of religious breakfast cereal (stays crunchy in milk!)...

  • What really bugs me is that big companies, not just crackpots, are using hoo-hah like magnetic healing in their products. Dr. Scholl's sells magnetic insoles, and they bill them as having all these wonderful effects. I wrote a nasty letter to the CEO of the conglomerate, but amazingly enough the products continue to be sold. ;)

    I think that corporations have an obligation to be good citizens, just like people. Too bad so many of both fail at that. Selling healing magnets is voodoo plain and simple.

    I actually tried to get this on /. as a story, under the title "Corporate Witchdoctors," but it was rejected. I still think it merits discussion and I'd love to see all those crappy companies selling magnets and other garbage buried under calls and letters.

  • can you provide more information on the Norwegian medicine laws you mentioned? sounds like a great idea.
  • by pemerson (179241) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:26AM (#168597)
    Almost all Slashdot interview guests are suggested by readers. One week we might invite a physicist; the next week a tech-interested politician or lawyer; the week after that an outstanding programmer. And once in a while we choose someone off-the-wall -- like Alex Chiu -- to keep things from getting too serious around here. Please realize that not every Slashdot interview is going to be your particular cup of tea, but it is someone's. (And, of course, you can send your interview guest suggestion to roblimo@slashdot.org. I read every one.) But enough of that. Let's turn the floor over to Alex Chiu, purveyor of Eternal Life Rings and decidedly non-mainstream opinions on religion, science, and politics.

    I think this "introduction" is a load of crap. It's clear that Roblimo thinks that Alex Chiu is "off-the-wall", but is there really any need for him to push this view on the rest of us? Let us read the interview and decide for ourselves, and give the interview a chance to stand or flop on its own!

    Personally, I'm not convinced that Alex's device works, even after looking at the web pages and reading his reviews. But I am convinced that Alex himself believes in what he is doing. Give the guy a chance, and then if you want to, add your additional comments below. What you've done is equivalent to saying "Here, try this really bad beer!". Yeah, sure, thanks, but no thanks.
  • Hey Rob,

    Serious question: Do you believe in this? (or was that some other slashdot editor you were referring to?)

    Thanks.
  • I vote for Jack Chick.

    Please to do no more linking to websites with onExit javascript where I'm seeing popup windows as I try to leave the site. Thanks!
  • I think even if I did the research mentioned above, it would be a total waste of money because if those people don't believe in the testimonials, they won't believe in the research at all. They would say that I made it all up.

    True enough. I hope that the "some doctor in New York" he also mentions is tied to a somewhat more reputable organization.

  • This guy reminds me of a lot of the girls i've gone out with. Trying to rationalize things and prove they are right about every single thing, no matter how outrageous and insane it might be.


    Unfortunately it doesn't get any better.. in fact.. just wait until your married.. ohh the horrors.. :)
  • by update() (217397) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:03AM (#168611) Homepage
    Not only is this completely without value, but I've probably blown a shot at First post by reading it.

    Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.

  • It's almost like flying. It reminds me of the story of Icarus. Trapped on a lonely island with only his mother and father, Icarus developed a way to fly by encasing feathers in wax, and attaching them to his arms. He then learned God's lesson when his wings of wax melted in the hot sun. With a bright flash God spoke to Icarus, and advised him not to attempt it again.

    Yeah, except that the "gods" that Icarus pissed off were Greek, not Christian. But I agree with you, man. I think Zeus should break out a can of whoop-ass on anyone trying to live forever.

    --brian

  • And that one wasn't half bad.

    --
  • by JohnTheFisherman (225485) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:22AM (#168620)
    How do the pr0n and other popup ads on your site relate to eternal life?
  • If you go to Disney world, it might feel fun at first. But after 2 days straight in the campus, you feel tired. You then want to go back home.

    See now, you almost had me for a second, but c'mon, Disneyworld! Everybody knows you couldn't spend too days straight on the "campus". Soul in a body, or soul floating free, that's an extra 75 bucks to stay overnight, and the reincarnation business is hurting worse than Microsoft's competitors (what with our mass-destruction of all the other cool creatures would used to be able to come back as - minotaur, bibeast, unicorn, etc.)

    1. is this.....is this for REAL? [mikegallay.com]
  • If you were to end up dying someday, who should I contact for a refund on my eternal life device?
    Answer to his first question contradicted everthing he was selling here. There is no reason to continue listening to this loony after that.
  • Real or not, it ends when you're hit by a car.

    (Don't mod this down. Think about it -- it's supposed to be insightful!)

  • His views on Taiwan and Tibet aren't rational. There is no "Chinese" flavor of "rational." The fact that his arguments are flatly logically fallacious is all that should normally need to be said on the subject.

    Personally, I have much more sympathy with the Chinese conceptions of material human rights than most people. However, in most cases, views like Alex's are non-sequitur (not to mention almost direct restatements of what the CCP teaches) because they have a dogmatically Panglossian view of whatever Chinese leadership does to run China. "It is hard to feed billions of people" is simply not a good answer to "why does the government quash political dissent." Billions of people elsewhere in the world seem to get on fine without central control: in fact historically they've done lots better. That China is one large country makes little difference: or at least I've never heard any sort of argument as to why this would make a difference in allowing pluralism.

    And I should further point out that Alex's views represent the sort of jingoistic racialism that is becoming frighteningly mainstream in China. We've heard this this "you are true Chinese, you are not, you are (racially) loyal, you are a (race) traitor" rhetoric before.
  • by dasmegabyte (267018) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Thursday June 07, 2001 @12:40PM (#168648) Homepage Journal
    Please, please PLEASE interview the guy from timecube.com next! He's terribly interesting, but won't answer my email any more (i'm doing a graduate rhetoric project on the internet as an advancement tool for fringe philosophies...time cube was, at one time, my golden example)). Sure, there's none of the political or scientific importance of Alexchiu, but it's still great stuff.
  • Alex Chiu: As long as the user doesn't get killed in accidents or be murdered by someone or die from a severe disease, the person would continue living.

    So basically, as long you do not live in this universe (where all those things occur regularly), you'll remain eternal.

    ROFLMAO!!!!

  • by Patrick McRotch (314811) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @10:46AM (#168663) Homepage
    I wouldn't call it worthless. I bet Taco is feeling pretty good about his grammar and spelling skills after reading that crap.
  • by Sivar (316343)
    "I know my theories and findings are hard for you to accept because they are so original and extraordinary. But one day in the future, you will see that I am right. You will be foreced to accept my invention as millions of people around you tell you that I am right."

    This is a classic logical fallacy called "Appeal to majority."
    While the philosophy of logic defines only 9 basic statements, rules of inference, that decide whether a statement is logical; there are infinite types of statements that are illogical. Alex seems to have hit one that is so common it is named.

    X number of people say it's true, therefore, it must be true!
    Windows 98 must be the best OS! Period!

    Blonde hair must be the prettiest! Period!

    People that put on rings whose magnatism doesn't even penetrate 1/4" of skin say that they are immortal so they must be! Period!

    Don't worry. The scientific method was devised for people just like this.

  • by Reckless Visionary (323969) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:16AM (#168672)
    Haha, I wonder how many dead people have provided testimonials that it didn't work. . .

    maybe we'll hear from them when their temporarily free soauls find new bodies

  • by religion major (325437) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:21AM (#168680)
    The 'enternal life news' should not be spread; it should be banned! Even contemplating a way to 'live forever' is hersay. The Bible tells us that at one time, man lived to incredible ages - far surpassing the lifespan of Adam and Eve. Cain lived to be over 500 years before his death. God originally gave humans an infinate lifespan, but because of our hideous and disgusting ways, he removed from us that most wonderful gift. Now, these life rings threaten to unsurp our punishment. If God wanted us to live forever, he wouldn't have taken that gift away from us. It's almost like flying. It reminds me of the story of Icarus. Trapped on a lonely island with only his mother and father, Icarus developed a way to fly by encasing feathers in wax, and attaching them to his arms. He then learned God's lesson when his wings of wax melted in the hot sun. With a bright flash God spoke to Icarus, and advised him not to attempt it again.


    By far, the ultimate gift to us from God, was Jesus, our Saviour. He gave up his own infinite life for our salvation. How are we to meet him in Heaven if we've got these 'infinate life rings' keeping us here on Earth. Is this another punishment from God? Or just another human tampering with the Almight's Will? Is anyone actually considering putting off their accention to Heaven with one of these rings? Shall we taint that last, final gift from God? Spoil Jesus's sufferings with our own penial desire to stay with our material posessions a little longer? And how do we know these rings even work? Who's to say?

  • He is a fraud, no doubt. Living forever is ridiculous!

    I find it hard to believe the same person who made "Immortality devices" supports population control.

    Doing research would cause thousands of dollars? Yeah right. It shouldn't be that much money for only putting it on patients. and, I'm SURE people would volunteer for something like this.

    And, his fraud seems to be working. How sad. I wonder if ANYONE believes him.

    Pretty clever, though. Playing on people's curiosity....

  • by absurd_spork (454513) on Thursday June 07, 2001 @09:08AM (#168697) Homepage
    You can't take a bath for the entire year. Cummunists don't allow that!

    Given the previous sentence, I don't really want to know what a Cummunist is.

"Your attitude determines your attitude." -- Zig Ziglar, self-improvement doofus

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