Conductive Concrete Offers Building Security

zdburke writes: "In a slightly different spin on the electromagnet-protected server room in Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, the folks at the National Research Council have developed concrete that conducts electricity, or 'percolates,' allowing it to serve as an electromagnetic shield. Current uses lean toward heated loading docks, non-freezing bridges, and grounding large-scale electrical equipment, but the counter-espionage idea is cool. The NYTimes has a brief story, and the folks at UN Omaha have some great pictures. It's not exactly new (it won a Popular Science prize in 1997) but it's still cool stuff."

Wow...

Anyone remember the name of that psychologist that put dogs in a room with an electrified floor? I wonder if they'll start putting this stuff into jail cells and mental hospitals. You know, the prisoner/patient/subject mouths off they can give them a jolt. All in the name of science, of course.

HERF hacks ;-)

So, does this mean that in the future, demolition companies could just HERF a building down instead of going inside and setting explosives?

Blocks Cell Phones?

I wonder what kind of cell phone signal I would get in a conductive-concrete building? Probably next to none...

Cool stuff?

"...but it's still cool stuff."

Wouldn't "hot stuff" be more appropriate? :)

Cost and Uses

Is the cost per cubic foot much greater than standard concrete? If not, then I'd be interested in the implications for using it as a residential flooring substrate. Rather than going for a standard radiant heating system, would it be more efficient to employ this?

A great big Faraday cage

I'm not a huge expert in the realm of physics (dammit, Jim, I'm a computer scientist!), but is this anything like a massive Faraday cage, which would prevent electromagnetic waves for entering and exiting?

I shudder to think of the day when we will work in protective buildings like these, keeping company secdrets safe from Van Eck phreakers and war drivers, but also keeping out the mellow, smooth sounds of Office Light Jazz 94.7. :-)

Lightning

Cool! Built in lightning rods, too?

Floating concrete structures?!?

So this stuff can conduct electricity, meaning it could generate a magnetic field, right? So you could theoretically generate a magnetic field to hold a concrete structure made from this stuff in the air. Does this mean that my goal of making a floating castle like all the bad guys in RPG video games have is finally within reach?

Wow!

That unomaha site has one of the worst web designs I'ver ever seen. I guess it's not that important that scientist be designers, but readability would be a good thing to strive for. I don't need every paragraph to be a different color. Is this a side effect of too much exposure to conductive concrete?

Now

to get out my multimeter, or even better, hook a big ass battery up to it and see what I can shock!

music studio

I remember when a friend was recording a radio theatre show, the studio had chicken wire on all the walls (behind accoustic foam in most places) to minimize inteferrence from outside signals. You don't want your microphone cable picking up radio signals when recording a performance. This material could be ideal for construction in applications like that where you want to block out outside signals.

Concrete circuitry?

How about drywall transistors and logic-gate carpets?

I wont be happy till my split-level serves pr0n.

Heated loading docks

Now there is what every trucker needs for those cold winter days.
Brought to you by science.

Nevermind the espionage angle..

the heating properties alone look great to me.. I live on a hill, and my sidewalk is always a nightmare in the winter.. how much do these concrete pavers the article mentions run and where can I buy them? I'm sick of using a sled to get to the bottom of my sidewalk!

No more salt

The best problem this solves (besides saving people's lives by reducing ice-related car accidents) is that it would eliminate the need for salt on bridges. I don't know exactly what salt does to the environment, but I'm sure that dumping a lot of salt on the roads/bridges and letting it seep in to the ground can't be good for the ecosystem.

It kills slugs too. Who knows what good slugs do for our environment? Haha

Non-freezing bridges?

Sounds like these guys have never studied thermodynamics. It takes 333kJ to melt a single kilogram of ice. To melt it in, say, 10 minutes (= 600 seconds) would require 555 watts. Not so bad? Consider the following: Conservatively estimate a bridge to be 10 meters wide by 250 meters long and having 2 centimeters of ice. That's 50 m^3 = 50,000 kg of ice. A mere 28 MegaWatts. Per ice storm. Per bridge. Assuming 100% efficiency. Oh yeah, no problem.

Please study a little science before you post stories from similarly unclued "visionaries".

heating

The most obvious use is heating.

But wouldn't it be cheaper and simpler to embed, say, a PVC 2-inch pipe in the concrete, and run warm water through that? Note that you can use this method with just about anything (dirt, asphalt, etc) and keep it from freezing.

If you want a method to directly heat it using electricity, run stainless steel pipe instead, and use it as a load.

I've frequently wondered why civil engineers haven't implemented either of the above techniques before. Chalked it up to "roads don't freeze enough".

Thoughts?

Finally!

Now even the underprivileged will be able to afford to stop the MLB from reading their minds. No more tinfoil hats!

just don't use Russian contractors...

The Soviets pioneered innovative uses of concrete way back in the '80s [go.com]... though I don't think they were that interested in *counter*-espionage...

Question for a Civ Eng:

Would having conducting concrete make it easier or harder to prevent electrochemical corrosion in reinforced concrete?

Intuition is telling me "yes to both", but I'm not a Civ...

Check this out...

If your intrested in kind of stuff New-Technologies [new-technologies.org] has a good article [new-technologies.org] about it. They also have a bunch of links to related sites reguarding concrete advancements.

Warning: professors at work

"The initial development evolved from a discussion I had with a graduate student,"

Isn't that how everything starts off in academia?

Same as ionized concrete?

Awhile ago there was talk about a government agency that ionized their concrete walls to attract airborn particles, which could then be swept away with a sponge-mop. The result was very clean air in the building (assuming the walls were cleaned frequently).

It sempt like a good idea but I haven't heard anything else about it for quite awhile. Perhaps someday this tech will be common in homes, as people are becoming more conscious of home and workplace health in our increasingly estrogenic society.

What about...

Radient heating. If they can use this to heat loading docks et. al. then how about my bathroom floor? Those stone tiles are so dang cold on the tootsies...

A New Option for the Tinfoil Hat Wearing Crowd

You can now go beyond wearing the tinfoil cap and build bunkers out of this (you want to be physically secure, too, don't you?) where you can run about naked telepathically communing with the trusted few you allow to enter, as well as your 26 cats of course.

Of course, remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...

Power consumption?

How much juice will a cubic meter of the stuff use per degree celsius? Would widespread use of this concrete create a major spike in energy consumption or would it be more efficient than current heating methods. I, for one, am sick of seeing power being wasted and never ending power generator construction.

Conductive Roads...

.....Could give new meaning to the words Information Superhighway

:-)

Interesting ideas

Wow. Could you image transparant conducting concrete. I think it could lead to some very interesting lighting effects.

Static Control

It sounds like the concrete still has a pretty high resistance, so I wouldn't count on a reasonable thickness forming a good Faraday cage. With the conductive stuff costing At 2 or 3 times as much, you could likely get a better cage for less by just hanging metal mesh inside the forms and pouring regular concrete. (The mesh is part of your reinforcement, too.)

And the suggested use of electrically heated payment leaves me wondering where they plan to get free electricity.

But there is one good application for this. Electronics manufacturers need to control static throughout their facilities. Fixed objects are grounded by hooking up wires, but people walk around, circuit boards and parts are carried around on carts, etc., and the only way to ground these while in motion is through the floor. So we paid plenty for conductive tile, and some sort of conductive underlay. If we could have put a conductive layer in the concrete slab itself, it would have saved a bunch (even at 3x the price of regular concrete), and it would be more reliable and lower maintenance.

thank god for EM shielding concrete...

now maybe those alien abductions will stop and I can get on with my life. :)

NYT Random Login Generator

Again, the URL is: http://www.majcher.com/nytview.html [majcher.com]

It's a simple HTML/javascripty thing to automatically generate a random NYTimes login every time you want to view a story. Just cut and paste the nytimes.com url you want to view, and hit the button.

If you could, please try to save the page locally and use it from your server or desktop, to keep the traffic to my server reasonable. Distribute at will.

Cell Phone Proof?

Would be great for movie theaters and the like...

Wireless Guitars

SpinalTap could have really used this technology when Niles was wielding his wireless guitar...

"These go to eleven."

Heated Runways

I thought a big use for these were going to be for heated runways - so you don't have to worry about de-icing them anymore. (I just hope they don't heat them too much and then you have a bunch of lizards just hanging out on the runway warming themselves.)

Don't throw your wood stoves out yet

This conductive concrete has some interesting properties. The number one use that leaps to mind is EMI protection.

But for heating? Forget it! Two replies to this article mentioned something about how much energy it would require to melt ice. Now add the energy required to heat up the concrete. And know, that while electricity works quickly, it is just about the most expensive way to heat your home/whatever.

You might consider also, that while an abode of conductive material might be a great way to absorb stray radio signals coming your way, what are is your dwelling going to be emitting if you are hooking up AC voltage to it? If a micro-watt cell phone freaks you out, consider thousands of watts pumping through your house :) (I don't think anyone has proven that non-ionizing radiation causes cancer yet, so no worries...)

Radiant heating systems are the way to imbed a heat source in concrete. The technology is gaining in popularity all the time, as it deserves.

Read more about it for yourself at: http://www.radiantcompany.com/ They are for profit, but the prices seem reasonable. They advocate do-it-yourself and lots of good info on the website.

It would be great to hear from an HVAC engineer on this, but I don't think they will tell you much different.

Bollux (a BSME)

i haven't gotten to that part yet! you bastard!

geesh, slogging my way through this enormous book - i haven't read about any 'electromagnet protected server room' yet - thanks for giving it away.

RF Nightmare - buildings as antennas

If large structures are made with conductive concrete, it could create a broad spectrum RF nightmare in cities.

Today, large buildings reflect radio signals, creating interference for many signals in the shorter wavelength (6m to 30cm) bands. Imagine how much worse this would be if the buildings them selves had strong electromagnetic fields, or worse yet, emitted AC fields?

Also, these structures will convert radio signals and other EMF into electric current. Theoretically, it is possible that such current could be in the tens of milliamps or even higher, making for passive RF radiators.

I know we already use a lot of steel in buildings, but this is usually grounded and steel is a really poor conductor compared to something like copper or silver. I'm assuming this conductive concrete has much better electric conductivity than steel.

Vortran out

voltage

Something I discovered with a neon transformer is that most things are conductive to some degree if you apply enough voltage :) concrete included.

Power _cost_ will be irrelevant....

... when we start applying the Seebeck Effect. In fact, we would want the largest possible temperature differential possible, since this would maximize our power gains. Bridges and large buildings would be a fun way to generate power.
So why melt the ice when we can use the temperature difference between an ice-forming-bridge and the temperature stable ground (or even the body of water the bridge crosses) to generate power for pr0n serving apartment complexes?
And we can drive our new electric vehicles slot car style, by drawing power from the road itself.

but What when the whole enchilada cracks?

I have read this, and i understand most of these conceps, but what bugs me is what will you do when the cincrete slab starts cracking? Then we'll end up with uneven disrtibution, crews will have to be called in to make repairs (if possible, nobody mentioned the method of repair) and finally let's not forget the bridges (the hottest topic of 'em all) the article (or someone) said that the conductive concrete will be "sandwiched" between the layers of "standard" concrete, which means that if any cracks are to occur crews will have to be called in to repair anyway (as they would with PVC pipes or stainless tubes) so i wonder if the whole thing will still work in about 15 years down the road... :)

cool!

*throws snowshovel out window*

Cryptonomicon again?!

Sometime earlier this week, I noted that anything can be linked to Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon.

Again, I am proved right. Where can I get my copy of Finux?

Limited use for corporate buildings

Who wants to work in a Faraday cage where your cell phone doesn't work, your pager doesn't work, you cannot listen to radio, and wireless internet doesn't even reach next floor?

Obviously the usage will be limited to high security buildings, but hey, if you want to do that, you can just put metal panels in or on the walls.

Re:Slashdot writers have to learn how to write

First day here, huh?

Re:Slashdot writers have to learn how to write

Do you not have anything better to do with your time than bitch and moan about an informative article because it doesn't use your lexis?

Kindly grab both of your ears tightly, one in each hand, and pull firmly until your head is extricated from your ass.

Re:Slashdot writers have to learn how to write

In the post for this article, the author writes like an enthused teenager, not like a professional.

plz point me to a certain 'rule' which requires people posting articles to use 'professional' terms