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No Logo: Taking Aim At The Brand Bullies

Posted by timothy on Thu Jun 08, 2000 09:40 AM
from the pardon-me-are-those-bugle-boy-jeans? dept.
Quick - how many brand names or logos are visible on the outside of your clothing? Your computer equipment? Have you ever noticed a Red Hat bumper sticker? Warren A. Layton sent us an interesting review of No Logo which will have you examining your surroundings for just such signs. Depending on your bent, you may also be reminded of the character Francisco d'Anconia in Atlas Shrugged when he declares "The coats-of-arms of our day are to be found on billboards and in the ads of popular magazines."

No Logo: Taking Aim At The Brand Bullies
author Naomi Klein
pages 490
publisher Knopf (Canada), Picador USA (US), Flamingo (UK)
rating 9
reviewer Warren A. Layton
ISBN 0-312-20343-8
summary The author takes on the The Big Brands from many different angles.This goes beyond just buying "sweatshop-free" clothes to such issues as reclaiming public space and attacking corporate manipulation.

The Scenario

At first glance, No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies may seem like the same-old rant against Nike. Upon reading the introduction, I realized that this was something more powerful and more interesting. The author picks apart the nature of these brand bullies to give us a better understanding of their mentality, what they hope to achieve and what exactly they're doing to accomplish all their goals. Obviously, some names will come up quite often (such as Nike, Disney, The Gap, Wal-Mart, Starbucks and Microsoft, just to name a few). However, she doesn't just stop at "Nike is bad because of the sweatshop labor practices" - she analyzes the company's marketing strategies, its sponsorship deals, its "charity" work and its influence in the classroom. Klein takes a look at each scenario from many different angles and backs up each of her observations with a multitude of examples and real world experiences.

The book is divided into four sections: 'No Space,' 'No Choice,' 'No Jobs' and 'No Logo.' 'No Space' is about the cluttering of our public spaces with ads; 'No Choice' describes different tactics used by big-name brands to drive independent retailers out of business; 'No Jobs' takes aim at sweatshop labour but with the corporations' "Brand, not products!" mentality in mind (it also includes details of Klein's trip to an Export Processing Zone just south of Manila); finally, 'No Logo' documents the global movement against branding and many of the organizations and people behind the revolt. It is also noted that while globalization is considered by many to be Pure Evil (tm), it has allowed this movement against multinational corporations to spread across the globe much more quickly and efficiently.

What's Bad?

To be honest, there is very little that I didn't like about this book. However, there was one little thing that I did notice, but it was not detrimental to my reading enjoyment.

Although my opinion is obviously biased, I was disappointed that there was no mention of Free Software or some other not-for-profit projects that benefit everyone. I find that many of the corporate ties within the Free Software community are very much along the lines of Klein's notion of an ideal balance between corporations and communities. It should be noted, however, that the most recent example in the book is dated June 1999, so it's possible that the word "Linux" hadn't reached Klein's ears by that time (except for some of the IPO hype).

When Klein starts talking about rebellious movements across North America, Europe and beyond, I was hoping for something like Free Software. In other words, I wanted to read about some sort of alternative that is being offered by these anti-brand revolutionaries. What I found were Adbusters that go around defacing billboards and ravers that take over downtown streets for day-long parties. I'm not disputing the message that these movements began with; they both are tools that are being used to reclaim some of the public space. In the end, though, that's all they are: tools. They can be easily used for the wrong reasons by the wrong people. Fortunately, Klein is quick to point this out and doesn't shy away from pointing out both good and bad aspects of each.

What's Good?

Klein's fluid writing style really shines throughout this book and her arguments are sharp and well targeted. The result is a a text that holds together extremely well. Even when Klein seems to be going off on a tangent, she is really just taking a different perspective on the issue of branding. Dividing the book into four sections also allows for great reading, because both author and reader can focus on a specific issue in each part. This encapsulation is almost flawless; Klein manages to tackle each individual chapter with different arguments without ever losing sight of her primary goal.

Another impressive aspect of this book is the sheer number of examples that Klein discusses. Each chapter is packed with examples that support her claims, with each one being examined quite thoroughly. The amount of research that went into this book is nothing short of phenomenal (although there is no shortage of corporate horror stories these days). Klein's interviews with workers in the Cavite export processing zone vividly illustrate the difference between what we see in stores and what happens behind the scenes. None of this is news to us: we have all read about Nike's sweatshop labour practices. However, this book digs further to attempt to uncover the true motivations behind these practices and how they are still possible despite the public's disapproval.

I found that each section contained one exceptional chapter. In 'No Space,' "The Branding of Learning" (chapter 4) is simply wonderful, especially for people still in school (like myself). You'll read about grade school kids making Nike sneakers as "an educational experience" and a 19-year-old student being suspended for wearing a Pepsi shirt on "Coke Day." In 'No Choice,' "Corporate Censorship" (chapter 8) should be of interest to most Slashdot readers. Much of this probably won't be as shocking to you, but it's really pleasant to read it from somone on "the outside" that truly gets it. In "No Jobs," "The Discarded Factory" (chapter 9) offers the same old shocking facts about sweatshop labour with a fresh perspective which only makes the situation seem worse. The whole "No Logo" section is wonderful, with the exceptions stated above in "What's Bad?"

So What's In It For Me?

If you have been paying close attention to the big brands and some of their dubious business practices, much of the examples won't be news to you. Some of the events that are described have already been covered by investigative TV reports such as 20/20 and Dateline as well as many major magazines. However, I still think you would enjoy the points that Klein raises and how she ties everything together into a well thought-out package.

If you are like me and you're not as familiar with these events, this book is a must read. It will guide you through some of the events surrounding Nike, Disney, The Gap and other multinationals throughout the past decade and let you know where we stand today. Students should especially like "No Space," especially with the commercialisation on campus and in the classroom.

For more information, I suggest that you take a look at the following Web sites:

Table of Contents

  1. No Space - New Branded World
  2. No Space - The Brand Expands: How the Logo Grabbed Center Stage
  3. No Space - Alt.Everything: The Youth Market and the Marketing of Cool
  4. No Space - The Branding of Learning: Ads in Schools and Universities
  5. No Space - Patiarchy Gets Funky: The Triumph of Identity Marketing
  6. No Choice - Brand Bombing: Franchises in the Age of the Superbrand
  7. No Choice - Mergers and Synergy: The Creation of Commercial Utopias
  8. No Choice - Corporate Censorship: Barricading the Branded Village
  9. No Jobs - The Discarded Factory: Degraded Production in the Age of the Superbrand
  10. No Jobs - Threats and Temps: From Working for Nothing to "Free Agent Nation"
  11. No Jobs - Breeding Disloyalty: What Goes Around, Comes Around
  12. No Logo - Culture Jamming: Ads Under Attack
  13. No Logo - Reclaim the Streets
  14. No Logo - Bad Moon Rising: The New Anticoporate Activism
  15. No Logo - The Brand Boomerang: The Tactics of Brand-Based Campaigns
  16. No Logo - A Tale of Three Logos: The Swoosh, the Shell and the Arches
  17. No Logo - Local Foreign Policy: Students and Communities Join the Fray
  18. No Logo - Beyond the Brand: The Limits of Brand-Based Politics
  19. Conclusion - Consumerism Versus Citizenship: The Fight for Global Commons


Purchase this book at Fatbrain.

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  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Eric the .5b (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:52AM
  • Re:Brands etc. by angelo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:52AM
  • Logos around me... by Junta (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:54AM
  • Re:clarification by john_many_jars (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:52AM
  • Car Dealer name on your new car by weave (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:57AM
  • America vs the World by dudeX (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:52AM
  • No Logo logo by Tiny Ant (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:54AM
  • same company by Benjamin Shniper (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:57AM
  • Re:I LOVE..... by Protocull (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:54AM
  • Mallclones and other Vapid People by Eric the .5b (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:58AM
  • Huzzah! by CComp (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:59AM
  • Re:A great resource for this kind of stuff is: by icing (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:56AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by colnago (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:57AM
  • Logos by Stavr0 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:59AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by G27 Radio (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:59AM
  • Re:I confess to be affected by it... by leroybrown (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:00AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Otter (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:02AM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by Bearpaw (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:03AM
  • Re:Ayn Rand - Eccentric capitalism - All that jazz by theologian_on/. (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:59AM
  • What's the difference... by El Volio (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:02AM
  • "Patent"ly strange business model by Pseudonymus Bosch (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:04AM
  • No Logo Art by Indomitus (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:04AM
  • NetZero clothing by British (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:03AM
  • "I am a mallclone!" by Joseph Vigneau (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:05AM
  • Marketdroids by Nexx (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:43AM
  • Re:What's the difference... by vees (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:06AM
  • Logos and clothing by zfractal (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:07AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by Eric the .5b (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:06AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by slark (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:08AM
  • This just gives me more reason by Nidhogg (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:49AM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:10AM
  • Free software: replacing the lost Public Domain by jms (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:11AM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by broken77 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:07AM
  • Re:What's really scary... by Rombuu (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:22AM
  • Armitage Shanks by spiro_killglance (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:08AM
  • Re:Logoff by Rombuu (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:24AM
  • As You Can See From My Name Brand Clothing... by fishbowl (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:25AM
  • think! THINK! (Score:4)

    by kevin lyda (4803) on Thursday June 08 2000, @06:09AM (#1015828) Homepage
    "ew, logos are bad!"

    oh gack.

    you'll want /., the penguin, wilbur, copyleft, the various daemons, mozilla, etc, etc gone too, right?

    some people make pretty doodles, other people buy them and try to associate them with whatever their thing is, and a slew of other people like being able to associate that design with that thing.

    a logo is no more evil then a name - except of course that they have to be sent as attachments.

    logos can be cute, just like any other type of art. now what some evil bastards that use logos do with them and what they've attached to that logo is a whole other kettle of fish.
  • Re:What exactly are we objecting to? by Sloppy (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:09AM
  • OSS everywhere! by bobalu (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:09AM
  • Symbols vs. Logos (Score:3)

    by Some Dumbass... (192298) on Thursday June 08 2000, @07:14AM (#1015831)
    Perhaps we should distinguish between symbols and logos. If I wear the United States flag on my shirt, am I wearing a "logo"? Probably not. A flag is a symbol of a nation, but calling it a "logo" sounds wrong. But patriotic types will still wear stars-and-stripes patterned clothes as evidence of their patriotism.

    Any symbol can be used as "a shorthand for what the wearer/user wants others to think of them". But not all symbols are logos. Is the source code of DeCSS a logo? No, but if it appears on someone's shirt it tells you something about what the wearer wants you to think of them. The Red Hat "Shadowman" is a logo, but I'm not so sure that Tux is, and certainly any old stuffed pengiun is not. But if that stuffed penguin is sitting on top of my monitor at work, it's a symbol, and it's meaningful, without being a logo.

    Be careful when bashing logos. Don't trash symbolism in general just because some companies try to market themselves as a brand and use their symbols to represent that brand.

  • Re:I don't really mind them by JamesOfTheDesert (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:10AM
  • Re:Wearable Advertising... by alecto (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:10AM
  • Re:Brands etc. by Rombuu (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:25AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by ocelotbob (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:15AM
  • Re:Coke day? by jbarnett (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:15AM
  • You can opt out... by superdoo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:20AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Freedent (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:18AM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by vees (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:20AM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by Golias (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:21AM
  • Re:Quick Test For You by Zagadka (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:26AM
  • How about a graphic designer's perspective? by aka Snowman (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:39AM
  • Recursive language bashing by Pseudonymus Bosch (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:23AM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by Golias (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:44AM
  • Re:Logo removal by Eric the .5b (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:23AM
  • Re:Class Shibboleths by Hard_Code (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:44AM
  • Hypocrite by briancarnell (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:24AM
  • Logo Shirts by Dungeon Dweller (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:21AM
  • Re:It would only be fair... by jbarnett (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:22AM
  • Re:What exactly are we objecting to? by Ian Wolf (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:45AM
  • Why does /. have to quote from Ayn Rand? by Rodney L Caston (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:26AM
  • De Ja Vu -- almost by Trinition (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:22AM
  • Re:No jobs by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:47AM
  • Casual Comfort by DuBois (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:49AM
  • No-brand as a brand in a Salon article by Pseudonymus Bosch (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:26AM
  • We're suckered by marketing as much as anyone by Junks Jerzey (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:28AM
  • Re:Logo removal by LetterJ (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:23AM
  • Re:Logo removal by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:25AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:30AM
  • Re:bumper sticker hack by ocelotbob (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:25AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by Spoing (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:31AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by jbarnett (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:26AM
  • Re:No jobs by LetterJ (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:26AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by hikari (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:27AM
  • by goliard (46585) on Thursday June 08 2000, @09:59AM (#1015865)

    Indeed there is.

    The clever reader will have noted that I mentioned Fussell's schema had 12 classes, and I discussed the four lower classes, three middle classes and the four upper classes.

    The remaining class, "class X", of people who prefer to consider themselves outside the class system. The bohemians, if you will. These people who elect to wear clothing which gives neutral, mixed, or ambiguous class signs.

    Wearing such t-shirts might be indicitive of that.

    However, by Fussell's paradigm, the fact that you managed to work mention of the three brands of T-shirt you value into a conversation of how you don't wear clothing with brands strongly suggests you possess that class insecurity common of people in the middle class. :)


    ----------------------------------------------
  • by Golias (176380) on Thursday June 08 2000, @07:32AM (#1015866)
    Actually, there was a very good book a couple years ago (I wish I could remember the title) about how all this "individualism" and "anti-corporatism" was the direct and intended result of corporate campaigns of the 50's and 60's.

    Specifically, they mentioned the Volkswagon Beetle as one of the products behind introducing the "hippie" philosophy to the zeitgeist. Record companies and other medea corporations provided a lot of the drive as well. We can hear echo's of it in Apple Computer's "for the rest of us" and "think different" ads, and in products like Fruitopia, Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, and CD's from Geffin Records.

    Gather any 10 "anti-corporate" Unix geeks at random, and 8 of them will be wearing Doc Martins. Rage Against The Machine fans pay through the nose for "Free Leonard Peltier" T-shirts. The rise of body piercing has created whole now markets for selling jewelry. Homeopathy and "alternative medicine" rakes in millions by getting people to trust their herbalist more than their family doctor.

    The thesis of the book boiled down to the fact that there really is no revolution, but it is being marketed anyway.

    Counterculture, as it exists today, was invented to sell us stuff.

  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by GeekBird (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:00AM
  • here we go by ^chuck^ (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:03AM
  • Re:What exactly are we objecting to? by bughunter (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:35AM
  • No branding, huh? by ruhk (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:38AM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by 22984 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:No jobs by KnightStalker (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:28AM
  • Re:Logo removal by Happy Monkey (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:39AM
  • Windows Logo in my office by shandrew (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:11AM
  • It's because of trademarks. by Anomalous Canard (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:41AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by robwicks (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:29AM
  • Re:It would only be fair... by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:31AM
  • by georgeha (43752) on Thursday June 08 2000, @07:44AM (#1015878) Homepage
    Actually, there was a very good book a couple years ago (I wish I could remember the title) about how all this "individualism" and "anti-corporatism" was the direct and intended result of corporate campaigns of the 50's and 60's.

    You're probably thinking of

    "The Conquest of Cool: Business Culture, Counterculture, and the Rise of Hip Consumerism"
    By Thomas Frank University of Chicago Press, 287 pages

    The review is at Salon. [salon.com]

    George
  • mmmmm by ^chuck^ (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:12AM
  • ad environment (Score:3)

    by Jamie Zawinski (775) <jwz@jwz.org> on Thursday June 08 2000, @07:46AM (#1015880) Homepage

    There was a great photo in the spring issue of Adbusters [adbusters.org] (but unfortunately they don't have the photo online.) It was a shot of a typical suburban mini-mall intersection, with all of the text and logos airbrushed out, so that all that remained was the shapes of the signs. It was very eerie: it looked almost normal, but something was just not quite right... it took a while of looking at it to realize what was going on.

    Ads are so much a part of our world now that when they're gone, it feels like something's gone wrong. Creepy...

  • Re:Quick Test For You by Ojing Eo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:15AM
  • Re:Logo removal by ocelotbob (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:31AM
  • Coerced? by FascDot Killed My Pr (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:46AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Legolas-Greenleaf (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:31AM
  • Re:Anyone remember? by sammy baby (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:32AM
  • Payment for advetising? by skankydog (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:33AM
  • Re:We're suckered by marketing as much as anyone by sirLOL (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:54AM
  • Re:It would only be fair... by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:35AM
  • Re:"I am a mallclone!" by j_d (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:35AM
  • You know how to fix it by The Cookie Monster (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:01PM
  • Re:Logo removal by Wiseleo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:05PM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by porges (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:05PM
  • Re:Casual Comfort by porges (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:11PM
  • by Fnordulicious (85996) on Thursday June 08 2000, @10:24AM (#1015894) Homepage Journal
    Violence against corporations in the form of destroying or defacing their advertising is a completely useless and indeed inconscionable act. It is akin to the firebombing of corporations in the late 60s, a purely destructive act with no results other than enhancing the perpetrator's ego and harming innocent drones who work for the target corporations. Perhaps no innocents are harmed during spraypainting of billboards (I won't mention overspray ;-), but all this does is show to the public at large that someone doesn't like the company who placed the advertisement.

    The general public typically isn't smart enough to make complex assumptions like "Gee, that Nike billboard covered with spraypaint must mean that someone is protesting the advertising saturation practices of Nike." No, instead they think "Gee that Nike billboard is covered with spraypaint. That must mean some evil gang members crawled up there in a drug frenzy and marked their territory." The ordinary populace is, as I keep reminding everyone, the dumbest people you'll ever meet. They don't make logical leaps in their thought processes, but instead try to reform the world in a shape that they're comfortable with. Never understimate the stupidity of the average human being.

    The harmful part of this anti-advertising violence is that corporations, once provoked by such activities, will make attempts to bring the perpetrators to justice for the willful destruction of private property, a crime that is unquestionable in the courts. Anti-abortion protesters aren't allowed to spraypaint nasty messages on the automobiles owned by gynaecologists who perform abortions, and by the same account it's equally illegal to spraypaint billboards. There's no question of free speech rights here. And remember that corporations are absolutely ruthless when it comes to prosecuting someone -- they'll pull out their army of bloodthirsty, slavering lawyers to beat you into a pulp and twist the judge's arms until they sentence you with the maximum possible sentence and award punitive damages to the corporation plus legal fees and your indentured servitude for five years in their shoe factory in Malaysia.

    Violence is, as usual, not the answer. It is nothing but a poor, victimizing form of instant gratification. I'm not going to offer anything as satisfying as violence, however; there is little more satisfying than pillaging an enemy village and raping its women, taking its children as slaves.

    Instead, I offer a more peaceful form of activism. When you see a friend wearing a billboard on their head or chest or the like, mention it to them. Ask them why they feel the need to pay money to advertise for a company that makes much more money than they'll ever see. Ask them why they feel that they need to identify with a corporation that has never given a fid for their best interests, indeed is only interested in the latest profit figures. Convince them that they should do the same for their friends, and actively avoid wearing brand names themselves, even if it means buying a new wardrobe of advertising-free clothing. If enough people actually begin communicating like this the idea of having big corporate brands pasted across your chest will begin to seem ridiculous (it always has to me).

    Obstructionist tactics work well too. When your local city government reviews an application for construction of a billboard, show up at the open hearing if there is one and argue the case against. If there isn't an open hearing, protest against the government for not holding open hearings on billboard construction. When you see yet another billboard that you don't like, give the corporation's local representative (if there is one) a call and complain that the billboard is ugly and lacks taste. Come up with other irritating complaints to waste their time and money. Write letters to the local paper about how the billboards you see are annoying or disgusting. Above all, find some way to waste the corporation's time and money on frivolous complaints about their billboards -- this hits them where it really hurts them, in their profit margin.

    Thankfully, the billboard problem has never reared its ugly head in Alaska. This state has laws specifically targeting billboards. The people who live here enjoy the beautiful scenery of this state and do not wish to be confronted with ugly billboards every time they turn around. In fact, the construction and renting/leasing of billboards is illegal, and signage built on private property has to conform with certain regulations on size and placement. All of this is to prevent the construction of billboards. Places like California are probably too far gone to consider enacting laws such as these, and the community there is probably too complacent to worry about advertising saturation, but perhaps other states with less advanced cases of saturation can look into enacting laws modeled on those of Alaska's. I can't describe how refreshing it is to return home to a billboard-free land after having spent time in the advertising saturated lands of America.

  • Re:You know what? by Ian Wolf (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:29AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by porges (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:20PM
  • I went to school with Naomi Klein... by cprincipe (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:22PM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:56AM
  • Re:Casual Comfort by Golias (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:31AM
  • The Goals of Capitalism by GrayMouser_the_MCSE (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:52AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Golias (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:56AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by zeevon (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:30PM
  • "Free Software" is a brand, too. by Brett Glass (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:34PM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by tastywhitebread (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:40AM
  • Two observations... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:40AM
  • Logos as part of identity by StoryMan (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:59AM
  • What's with the anti-Nike? by randombit (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:52AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by Molly (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:36AM
  • Wow I like your work a lot...... by pHatidic (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:39PM
  • Re:Maybe Irst-fay Ost-pay? by crazyj (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:48AM
  • No name, no slogan by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:52AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by aculeus (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:02AM
  • Calvin and Hobbes by syrinx (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:02AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Shaheen (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:37AM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by titus-g (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:06AM
  • Nike's refutation - possible discrepancies by djneko (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:52AM
  • by xTown (94562) on Thursday June 08 2000, @04:54AM (#1015917)
    ...and you'll be stunned at what you see. Go to a mall, for example. Or a high school or college campus. Start counting all of the walking billboards you see: people wearing clothes that very prominently display the name of the designer or the store they bought it from. Tommy Hilfiger t-shirts and pants are a prime example around here. Gap. Old Navy. Yeah, Nike. Guess.

    Stop counting when you reach a hundred. It won't take long.

    This is all fscked up, AFAIC. People are paying companies large sums of money (ever bought a Tommy t-shirt?) for the "privilege" of advertising for them. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

    Sounds like an interesting book. I'll have to pick it up tonight.

  • Half-life "logo" by MetalHead (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:06AM
  • Class Shibboleths (Score:5)

    by goliard (46585) on Thursday June 08 2000, @06:37AM (#1015919)

    Interesting. There is a very important thesis in the book Class by Paul Fussell which pertains here.

    He presents a paradigm of American society in which there are 12 social classes, which are as much cultures as economic brackets. One of the many things he discusses is the idea of "legible clothing", that is to say, clothing with words printed on it. Displaying the brand names on your clothing is a way of asserting which social class you belong to, or wish to belong to.

    In the four lower classes, "impressive" brands are largely inaccessible because of cost. However, when a member of the lower classes can afford clothing of such a brand, s/he gravitates towards clothing which flaunts its brand, in as big, bold letters and icons as it possibly can; this communicates to other members of the same class "I am more wealthy than you".

    The upper four classes prefer clothing with either no brands apparent or extremely subtle branding. Wearing prominent logos is vulgar. Also, this turns the identification of the brand into a test of the viewer's class: it allows the wearer to test whether they are dealing with someone familiar enough with, say, Versace gowns as to be able to tell one when they see one.

    It is the middle three classes who consume "designer" and "branded" clothing the most. They can afford it, and they are often insecure about their class status: there is nothing worse for someone in the middle classes than to be mistaken for someone in the lower classes. Wearing designer jeans, e.g., back in the 1980s, was a way for middle class school girls especially to differentiate themselves from their lower class classmates.

    For an absolutely fascinating (IMHO) look at this, check out this Salon article "Consumed by Consumption" [salon.com].

    At any point, the reason I mention this is two-fold (beyond the obvious one that it might amuse you, gentle readers).

    First, if you've ever aspired to either climb the class lader or merely become better at your Sherlock Holmes-style disguises, this provides a very nifty little heuristic. Only one part of many, but a vital part.

    Second, brand watching -- wrt people's clothing -- doesn't merely tell you the penetration of corporatism into private life. It also is an at-a-glance rough measure of the class demographics in a social environment. Analysts and pundits are always saying things like "the middle class is disappearing" etc. Well, go collect your own qualitative data. See for yourself what the class distrubution is like in your area.


    ----------------------------------------------
  • Quick Test For You (Score:5)

    by Hrunting (2191) on Thursday June 08 2000, @04:54AM (#1015920) Homepage
    How many companies can you identify by their logo alone (omit word logos, like 'Microsoft' and 'IBM'). How many "open-source" software companies can you identify by their logo alone? How many "open-source" web sites? How many games?

    The 'no logo' idea is a noble one, but one which will ultimately fail. It's not just marketing, but recognition. Man has been doing it for as long as we've been painting animals on our shields so that other armies will know who we are. Self-identification is one of the key pieces of human nature and what we now call 'logos' are simply another manifestation of our nature.
  • Re:"I am a mallclone!" by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:38AM
  • Re:Missing the point by -1inarow (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:08AM
  • Re:Anyone remember? by titus-g (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:18AM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by ennuiner (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:38AM
  • Missing the point by /dev/janus (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:38AM
  • Re:Coke day? by hikari (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:39AM
  • by Frater 219 (1455) on Thursday June 08 2000, @06:39AM (#1015927) Journal
    Unlike billboard vandalism and rioting, the creation and distribution of free software is a productive activity. As such, it doesn't even show up on the radar of many of today's radicals, who are more interested in smashing the existing system than in building anything new. It's my suggestion that mild-mannered, bourgeois Linus Torvalds is far more effectively radical than any spray-can-wielding Adbuster -- and that it is an effect of the nihilism of radicalism that many anticorporatists have ignored free software.

    Too much of the current radical mentality is oriented towards nihilism and violence: even professedly nonviolent radicals speak (or shriek) of "smashing" or "destroying" (rather than "reforming") the regime of which they disapprove. Because of the intensity of their utopian vision, they can see little or nothing in the current state of the world that is worth preserving. From such a view, peaceful and productive reform may seem pointless or even reactionary: a refusal to act "by any means necessary".

    (I consider myself an anticorporatist only in that I object to government granting special privileges to corporations, and to the use of these privileges to evade responsibility for human rights violations and the like. I enthusiastically support free trade and investment ("capitalism", falsely so-called), on the grounds, discussed by von Mises, that socialist command economy cannot work. I consider corporate favoritism by government to be a form, not of free trade, but of socialism, as it represents government entanglement in the economy. "Corporatism" was originally the name of the form of command economy favored by the Italian Fascists: the control of the economy by government, for the ostensible benefit of the people, through the conjoinment of government and corporate management.)

    Free software has been a significant force for progress and reform in the world. It has been essential to the creation of the Internet, which has dramatically increased the ability of individuals to publish their views to a global audience -- a privilege formerly reserved for the Hearsts and Turners of the world. Free software, in the form of email, netnews, and the Web, has enabled people to criticize governments and corporations, to call for reform, and to organize. Free software has also helped keep proprietary-software makers more honest, by giving users an alternative.

    However, free software doesn't break anything. Linus, Alan, Theo, Bruce, Eric, Richard, Larry, Guido, Ian, and company are not found smashing store windows to destroy copies of Windows 2000, nor are they found spray-painting Microsoft billboards. Yet when they do get noticed by radical publications such as Salon, they are discussed in terms of the damage their work may do to Microsoft, not in terms of the productivity it engenders.

    Smashing stuff isn't really radical. People have been smashing stuff they don't like since the cave days. Giving people new ways to speak, to work, and to live -- that's radical.

  • Re:Quick Test For You by webrunner (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:13PM
  • Do you wear vendor T-Shirts? by Shadok8 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:54PM
  • Re:Wear it with pride! by 3Cats (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:54AM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by epgandalf (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:54AM
  • (-1) Offtopic by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:28PM
  • Maybe Irst-fay Ost-pay? by _xeno_ (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:55AM
  • by mosch (204) on Thursday June 08 2000, @08:21AM (#1015934) Homepage
    Personally, I don't consider anything that consists of standard clothing with a logo on it to be designer clothing. The term 'designer' implies, to me, that somebody there's an element of design involved beyond 'embroider a logo there, and use green stitching on the top button'. Designer clothing, to me, on the casual side is stuff in the way of A|X or Diesel or what not, that you can identify without a huge logo on it. As for nicer designer clothing, I think most people who have to wear suits can quickly spot the difference between a today's man suit and a Hugo Boss or a Canali. I personally don't understand how two things came about, first of all I don't understand the urge to wear designer clothing just for it's own sake. Who wears those giant logos? They're always the cheapest things made by that designer anyway, so it's not advertising that you have enough money to wear Calvin Klein or something. They say 'I want to wear designer clothing, but all I can afford is this overpriced low-end item that offers neither additional style, nor quality'.
    ----------------------------
  • Re:I don't really mind them by Silicon_Prophet (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:16AM
  • No Logo's Here by rfisher (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:19AM
  • Re:Car Dealer name on your new car by Spoing (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:21AM
  • Re:Coke day? by Isaac-Lew (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:43PM
  • Oddly enough... by Kintanon (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:56AM
  • Re:Oddly enough... by gonzocanuck (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:22AM
  • I LOVE..... by AntiPasto (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:57AM
  • Closely related Sci-Fi Short Story by zedsdeadbaby (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:21AM
  • refusal by trapkit (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:57AM
  • Re:What's the difference... by El Volio (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:24AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by -Harlequin- (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:27AM
  • interests by KarmaHo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:28AM
  • Re:You know what? by Pope (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:24AM
  • Promos from GIS by ejbst25 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:58AM
  • Brand names and such by Legolas-Greenleaf (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @04:58AM
  • Thanks timothy! (Score:3)

    by drwiii (434) on Thursday June 08 2000, @04:59AM (#1015950)
    Right when I was about to buy all this stylish merchandise [copyleft.net], too. :-)
  • Interresting... by WowTIP (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:27AM
  • I object to... by jibs (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:28AM
  • Re:Logo removal by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:34AM
  • Re:bumper sticker hack(OT) by ocelotbob (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @06:53PM
  • At least the computer industry regulates itself by AK47 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @07:05PM
  • Re:clarification by xmedar (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:30PM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Sexual Display by Malcontent (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:45PM
  • Re:The Goals of Capitalism by xmedar (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:53PM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Sexual Display by AndyChrist (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:37AM
  • Re:Coerced? by bughunter (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:47AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by xmedar (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:09PM
  • by c-mass12 (197383) on Thursday June 08 2000, @04:59AM (#1015962) Homepage
    I've read Atlas' Shrugged, and I also read the article. We must realize that we are living in a society defined completely by material things. That is, our day to day life is molded by what we do, see, wear and eat. Ayn Rand was right, the coat-of-arms of today ARE these symbols. We are divided by symbols and their meaning. Looks at designers, religious symbols, gang symbols - all are means of defining who you are and who/what you choose to associate yourself with. Many of us associate ourselves with geek culture. Caffeine, hardware/software related tshirts - and other symbols that we use to define ourselves by. Just as many of the coat-of-arms represented common ideologies and themes, this holds true today. We use the unrelenting capitalism of our society to define ourselves by. We take these symbols from Mass Culture and adopt them into yourselves - Pop Culture. This semiotical discussion was brough to you by K.Moss, B. Gates, Linus. T and the big H. Anyone interested, John Fiske wrote a great article on semiotics, Pop Culture and Mass Culture and about all this iconography stuff. Try to find a copy online. It's worth the read. CM
  • Actually... by TheCarp (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:00AM
  • Re:Logo removal by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:39AM
  • Logo removal by crow (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:01AM
  • Oh no... by viper21 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:01AM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Self-Identity/Esteem by xmedar (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:47PM
  • Re:Logo removal by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:40AM
  • Naomi Klein on CSPAN by IAmSancho (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:48PM
  • Re:Isn't it ironic? by Woodblock (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:54AM
  • Re:Marketdroids by Mr. Slippery (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:40AM
  • Re:Oh no... by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:41AM
  • Re:refusal by Happy Monkey (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:02AM
  • Awww by pipeb0mb (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:46AM
  • Clothing Logos by John Poole (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:02AM
  • Brands etc. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:03AM
  • Re:/.'ers don't understand irony by Woodblock (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:57AM
  • (WAY O/T) Re:Logo removal by LevenValera (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:03PM
  • image is nothing... by crazy_speeder (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:03AM
  • I confess to be affected by it... by Fat Lenny (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:04AM
  • Re:Quick Test For You by Wah (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:50AM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Sexual Display by bungo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:07PM
  • Re:It would only be fair... by Protocull (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @10:57PM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Protocull (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @11:08PM
  • by RobSweeney (19353) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:04AM (#1015985) Homepage
    A lot of the logos-on-clothes thing is because you can't get intellectual property protection for a design or a "look" (look-and-feel perhaps?), but you can for brand names and logos. Major fashion marketers like DKNY and Tommy Hilfiger were getting killed by knockoff products, so they (skillfully IMO) made their brand and logos the status-conferring thing that people want to wear. Hilfiger couldn't do much about knockoff Tommy-ish clothes, but they can, and do, prosecute knockoff makers who infringe the Tommy logo and trademarks. Being a walking Tommy billboard says to the world, "I can afford to be fashionable", because knockoffs are, in theory, less common. Genius marketing IMO - attacks the knockoff problem _and_ has people walking around promoting your brand - and they pay you!
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by Score Whore (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:04AM
  • Logo Tattoos R KEWL! by amoebius (Score:1) Friday June 09 2000, @02:30AM
  • Re:Logo removal by Mars Saxman (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:31PM
  • Re:Logo Tattoos R KEWL! by amoebius (Score:1) Friday June 09 2000, @02:31AM
  • Re:Interresting... by zantispam (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:33PM
  • Re:Marketdroids by NetCurl (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:05AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by titus-g (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:53AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... (and at this) by -Harlequin- (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:37PM
  • Re:Heh. by geekboy31337 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:38PM
  • Re:Quick Test For You by chandler (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:57AM
  • Maybe you could tell us some content? by abe1x (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:05AM
  • Re:Coke day? by gwalla (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @08:57AM
  • Re:Class Shibboleths by Hard_Code (Score:2) Friday June 09 2000, @08:18AM
  • More than Just a Name? by DoctorD (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:54PM
  • Logoff (Score:5)

    by Protocull (187587) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:06AM (#1016000)
    Logos are not simply about branding. They are aspirational, they are a shorthand for what the wearer/user wants others to think of them, and what they would like to think of themselves. If I buy Nike, it's because I want to feel sporty and a bit rebellious because I like their guerilla marketing tactics. If I buy Prada, it's because I want to feel fashionable and to be admired by people who recognise the brand. If somebody doesn't recognise it, then by definition I don't care about impressing them. It makes me feel like an insider. If I use linux instead of M*crosoft, it may be because it's a superior operating system - or it may be because I want to be in with you guys. And you can bet that I'll be buying a tux t-shirt over at Think Geek and will wear that logo with pride. But guess what - Andover get the money! Not Linus or the other open sourcerers! It's not just the simple spread of the brand that marketing spends all that money on, it's building the image to go with it. And we can kid ourselves that we are too sophisticated or cynical to be manipulated by the aspirational aspect - but we do it every time we make a purchasing decision.
  • Re:Quick Test For You by Luis Casillas (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:54PM
  • Wear it with pride! by gughunter (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:06AM
  • Re:Marketdroids by Eil (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @12:58PM
  • Re:It would only be fair... by Score Whore (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:07AM
  • Re:bumper sticker hack by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:00AM
  • Re:Nike Scam by bitchazz (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:01AM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Self-Identity/Esteem by fourtrackmind (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @09:06AM
  • Re:Coerced? by Error 404 (Score:1) Friday June 09 2000, @10:22AM
  • You're still paying for it by ansible (Score:2) Sunday June 11 2000, @09:49AM
  • This comic is strangely relevant... by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:00PM
  • (offtopic) by tcd004 (Score:1) Monday June 12 2000, @05:51AM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Sexual Display by Malcontent (Score:1) Monday June 12 2000, @08:08PM
  • Re:Brands etc. by -Harlequin- (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:01PM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Eric the .5b (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:10PM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by hardaker (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:07AM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Sexual Display by thomax (Score:1) Tuesday June 13 2000, @01:53AM
  • Re:The Goals of Capitalism by Eil (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:13PM
  • Re:Designer Brand as Sexual Display by bungo (Score:1) Tuesday June 13 2000, @03:02AM
  • Wearable Advertising... by suss (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:09AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Eric the .5b (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:16PM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Eil (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:18PM
  • Re:I LOVE..... by Tower (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:10AM
  • by Bearpaw (13080) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:11AM (#1016023)
    I see you've bought into the silly idea that "advertising-supported = free". It's not free, it's just paid for with a different currency. If that's the way you prefer to pay, knock yourself out, but you should at least have some idea of the price you're paying.
  • Re:(WAY O/T) Re:Logo removal by mcrandello (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:33PM
  • I had RedHat sticker on my Escort by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:11AM
  • What's really scary... by yankeehack (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:11AM
  • Re:Logo removal by mcrandello (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:40PM
  • clarification by Nexx (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:Why no free software? It's productive! (Rant) by mlepovic (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @01:46PM
  • What's bad? by carlos_benj (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by MrEd (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:13AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by TicTacTux (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:13AM
  • by Sway (153291) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:14AM (#1016033)

    First of all, thanks for the review. I actually picked the last book I read based on the book reviews here and I was really pleased. Thanks for the service.

    I just wanted to say that I'm actually a fan of branding. It allows us critique and praise products and services by name. It allows us to evaluate and share our evaluations with others very easily. If I walk around wearing a Pop Tarts shirt, I can make a statement about my satisfaction with Pop Tarts, and, indirectly, Kellogs. Here's the catch, though. Kellogs will happily make Pop Tarts shirts for me to buy and wear to help promote the product. But who is going to make the other shirt? Who is going to sell the "Pop Tarts Suck" shirt for those dissatisfied with the product? Kellogs won't. Random T-shirt manufacturers won't because the market is significantly smaller than the "Yankees Suck" crowd. Maybe Quaker will make them for us while pushing their breakfast bars?

    Currently, brands have a tendency to perpetuate themselves a little too easily. Obviously Abercrombie & Fitch couldn't have gotten every teen in America to wear a billboard without having made something decent in the first place. But now that they have hit a certain saturation point, the brand will keep itself alive. Everyone wears A&F so I must wear A&F to be more like everyone. Again this is because A&F makes it extremely convenient to say "I like A&F" while there is no easy way to say "I don't give a poop about A&F" or "I abhor A&F".

    Maybe technology will find a way for us to easily add logos and crossed out logos to our clothing. Then we will be able to really see the power of the brand to increase ownership and responsibilty of a product. Wear your brands with pride, but try and make your criticism public as well.


    Peace. Sway

  • Re:Coerced? by Frater 219 (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:02PM
  • Re:Quick Test For You by Kev Vance (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:06PM
  • Nike's response letter by chandler (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:15AM
  • Re:bumper sticker hack(OT) by mcrandello (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:09PM
  • A great resource for this kind of stuff is: by tcd004 (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:15AM
  • Re:This just gives me more reason by Glytch (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:22PM
  • Re:What exactly are we objecting to? by Wiseleo (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:22PM
  • A cartoon in the same vein by Apotsy (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:26PM
  • Re:Logoff by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:16AM
  • Re:Maybe Irst-fay Ost-pay? by BCW2 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:48PM
  • False Alarm by LittleStone (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:22AM
  • Re:I object to... by elric33 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:49PM
  • Re:It would only be fair... by xTown (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:22AM
  • Re:Coerced? by Disco Stu (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @02:50PM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by Gramie (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @03:21PM
  • "Branding" (shudder) gone bad... by jonr (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:22AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by canthidefromme (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:23AM
  • Re:What's really scary... by / (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:32AM
  • Is all that really free? by Spiral Man (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @03:31PM
  • Re:Yea! I loved Atlas Shrugged! by gribbly (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @03:37PM
  • Re:Quick Test For You by chandler (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:Quick Test For You by MerlinTheGreen (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:32AM
  • Isn't it ironic? by Woodblock (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:23AM
  • Coke day? by Tet (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:24AM
  • Anyone remember? by Ommadawn (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:33AM
  • interesting by Dalroth (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:34AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by ktakki (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:34AM
  • Time to throw out my Slashdot t-shirt by Mark Gordon (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:36AM
  • by FascDot Killed My Pr (24021) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:25AM (#1016062)
    What EXACTLY is the objection to, for instance, people wearing brand names?

    The cliqueishness? Because Slashdot has got that in spades. In fact, EVERY community has this property.

    The customer exploitation? They make Nike seem cool so you want the stuff and then charging you up the wazoo? But surely the problem here is not Nike, but the purchaser, yes? We're not talking about a monopoly situation: there is more than one show manufacturer.

    The ubiquity of advertisements? I can understand this objection, but writing a book or even starting a boycott against a company is pointless. Advertising works. More advertising (than you competitors) works better. Therefore companies are in an arms race to each do more advertising than everyone else.

    But I might also note that "corporate pigs" are not the only offenders in these regards. For instance, next time you are outside count the number of "DARE to keep kids off drugs" bumper stickers, t-shirts, painted minivans, etc you see. Many non-profit organizations (or even non-organizations) do the same thing.
    --
    Wanna hook MAPI clients to your Tru64/AIX/Linux server?
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Legolas-Greenleaf (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:25AM
  • Huh. I thought is was just me. by alumshubby (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:25AM
  • Yes, of course by / (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:26AM
  • LOGO: its in the genes! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:26AM
  • by codemonkey_uk (105775) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:26AM (#1016067) Homepage
    As any good biologist will tell you, it is the cost of a sexual display that makes it attractive. What you say when you buy Nike, Gucci, Prada and the rest is "Look at me! I can afford expensive clothing! I have so much money I can throw it away!"

    This is the same as the peacocks tail, and is the product of sexual selection. The thoery goes, a male with a big tail must be tougher than an apparently equal male with a smaller tail, because life is more difficalt if you have a large tail, therfore to have survived with this handicap you must be a healthy mate.

    Now look around you. Do cheap brands make such a big deal of their logos? No. That because they don't carry the prestege of the expensive brands. The (sub conciose) thinking behing it is "Damnit, if I'm paying Prada prices, I want people to know it."

    Ironicly the proliferation of a brand reduces its value. Campri Ski anyone? (Or was that a UK thing?)

    Thad

  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by georgeha (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Grimpond (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:26AM
  • Re:Logo removal by bornholtz (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:27AM
  • testing the system by geekboy31337 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:37AM
  • "I abhor A&F" by crackd (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:37AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by displaytest (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:37AM
  • by G27 Radio (78394) on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:37AM (#1016074) Homepage
    It annoys me to no end that it's hard to find clothing I like without logo's all over them. It certainly qualifies as one of my pet peeves. Even so I still end up wearing logos. There's a small Chaps/Ralph Lauren logo on my pants and another on my Timberlands. You wouldn't notice them unless you were really looking though.

    It's not logos per se that bother me. It's the fact that if I'm going to wear something with a logo it should be my choice. But when I go clothes shopping (as rarely as possible) almost all of the nicer clothing has prominent logos on it.

    OTOH I don't mind wearing things with a logo of my choosing. For example the T-shirt NORML sent me, or my OS/2 2.1 "Fast pane relief for Windows" T-shirt. The logos you wear become part of your identity when people first meet you. I most definately am not about TH, DKNY, or A&F and I don't pretend to be. Of course I'm not about OS/2 either, but I find the OS/2 T-shirt to be somewhat humorous.

    numb
  • "I want to be a billboard" by MKalus (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:38AM
  • canonical slashdot book review by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Otter (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:27AM
  • Yep, I've had this policy for some time now... by PoochieReds (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:27AM
  • True, but let's not be unfair by jabber (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:28AM
  • Re:Logo removal by J4 (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:28AM
  • No jobs by Benjamin Shniper (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:28AM
  • Re:Really do take a look around... by ktakki (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:What's with the anti-Nike? by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:41AM
  • Re:What's really scary... by xTown (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:29AM
  • Re:refusal by DrTomorrow (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:43AM
  • Re:Logoff by Protocull (Score:1) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:30AM
  • Re:I don't really mind them by / (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:43AM
  • Re:Marketdroids (Score:3)

    by Mr. Slippery (47854) <tms AT infamous DOT net> on Thursday June 08 2000, @05:45AM (#1016088) Homepage
    or do you go to someone like Seagate for the piece of mind afforded by the name brand?
    Maybe so, but when did you last see a tee-shirt or billboard with a Seagate logo on it? Do others geeks envy you because you bought an Seagate drive? Will 31337 h4X0rs rob you at gunpoint because they've be ad-programmed to think that having a Seagate drive is worth killing over?

    It's one thing to have a reputation and stand by it. It's another to relentlessly brainwash the populace.

  • Re:The Goals of Capitalism by arivanov (Score:2) Thursday June 08 2000, @05:45AM