Justin Frankel On AOL, Subverting The Status Quo 364
linuxbaby writes "Rolling Stone has an excellent feature on Justin Frankel, the creator of Winamp, Gnutella, Shoutcast, Waste, and other projects. The article calls him 'the world's most dangerous geek', and after years of being muzzled by AOL for igniting the pirate nation, Frankel is breaking his silence." The article ends by asking: "In many ways, Frankel's future encapsulates the debate over the future of the Internet itself. Does it become just a distribution system for corporate product or more of a way to subvert that corporate control?"
where credit is due... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:where credit is due... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've written the graphics engine for a 3D visualisation package [viewbuild.com] since then. The sharing of source code benefits the world.
Re:where credit is due... (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:where credit is due... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:where credit is due... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:where credit is due... (Score:4, Informative)
There is a way to be safe on a somewhat public network. I want to see how big it can be built....
Re:where credit is due... (Score:2)
Re:where credit is due... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:where credit is due... (Score:3, Informative)
If you follow the links you get the droid speak...
Re:where credit is due... (Score:3, Informative)
The setup executable [deviantart.com] and The source code [deviantart.com]
Enjoy !
Re:where credit is due... (Score:3, Informative)
or
modwaste [sourceforge.net]
Legalities? hmm, not my department. I only know about source code.
Why does the Internet have to become one thing? (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps I've said too much...
Re:Why does the Internet have to become one thing? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why does the Internet have to become one thing? (Score:2, Insightful)
You are confusing two different things.
Typo? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Typo? (Score:5, Funny)
That makes sense. (Score:3, Funny)
This post was meant to be Informative, not Funny.
Re:Typo? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the people I knew at AOL were pretty smart. There are a lot of extremely cool technologies behind the scenes that make the system as a whole work very well.
That being said, many of the upper level managers have risen from the ranks and "grew" into the position they occupy today. They're frequently much better at the technological end of things and not so good at people skills (e.g. feckless yuppie bastards who think that $$$
There is also quite a bit of trust that whatever is done, the end users will swallow gladly and keep paying WAY too much money for fluff and busy signals. They also pinned too many hopes on people sticking around once they got broadband.
I used to think that most AOL users were idiots. When it comes to technology, many are. Most people are those who don't want to know about computers.
Re:Typo? (Score:3, Interesting)
When the company tried to insist that an AOL icon instantly appear on a user's desktop during a Winamp installation, Frankel hit the roof. "I'd be like, 'Look, our users don't want to use AOL!' " he says. " 'They think AOL sucks!'"
But if you notice the Winamp 5 install [geocities.com], this option DOES exist.
It does show an Add AOL icon to desktop, and what more, the option is checked by default too. Am not saying its right or wrong, Nullsoft can do jollywell what it pleases, but this is just an ob
Re:Typo? (Score:2)
I don't think that was possible in the AOL branded version of Netscape (v6 IIRC?).
So, while not perfect, at least it seems to be a trainable mutt.
Of course, since WinAmp v5 still doesn't support multi-byte ID3 tags (e.g. non-western character sets), I dumped it again and switched to FooBar2000.
Re:Typo? (Score:3, Funny)
Hi there.
My name is Eric, and I use AOL.
I also know what binary is, I used to program in C++ (not so much now since I had to move and don't have my good old linux box), and I'm going start at UF in the fall (hopefully) double majoring in Computer Science 'n' Engineering and Japanese.
I speak enough latin to translate pretty much any text I want to read from the classical into Modern English, and while I may not know every little thing about what exact instructions my x86 machine uses (since there are seve
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:He'd be more dangerous still... (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:He'd be more dangerous still... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:He'd be more dangerous still... (Score:3, Insightful)
Complete bull!
If you wrote a program and released it under the GPL, at any time you can turn around and say that you are going to release it under a more restrictive license.
The key here, is that the released version will still be available, and anybody can improve upon it. However, that is certainly NOT unique to the GPL... Release a program under the BSD license and you have the same effect, but even less chance that it can get shut-down (with
Re:He'd be more dangerous still... (Score:3, Informative)
You're talking nonsense. At any moment, the copyright holder of a GPL licensed program can turn around and say "Okay, I'm closing the source, any further releases will now be under this new license." The authors can't prevent people from distirbuting/modifying the code that is already available, but they can continue their own closed source development and make releases under any terms they wish.
If you hold copyright on a work, then you always ha
How geniuses come to be (Score:5, Interesting)
Rock on, Atarians...
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:2)
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:5, Interesting)
As my moniker suggests, I was in the same boat that these two were in. Programming an Atari was different than programming today, in a sense: Atari's were quite limited; but since the were, expectations were not so high. It was quite easy to get near the "ceiling" of what one could do with the machine. The real geniuses, of course, pushed the envelope. What I'm concerned with nowadays is the lack of such machines; the closest we have are either complex machines with confising API's, or emulators of the previous machines which no one except retrogamers will even notice. How are we going to get our next generation of truly genius programmers without such platforms for them to "cut their geek teeth" on?
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as pushing the envelope, the PS2 is a very interesting machine with a CPU, FPU, VPU1, VPU2, and a big bus. There is alot of potential there for creative programmers. The PS2 is technically inferior to its rivals, but I bet it will blossom over time as the original NES and Sega Saturn did.
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:5, Insightful)
That is so true. I was just daydreaming about the old days where you flicked on the computer and all you had was a flashing cursor. It really couldn't do much at first glance, but a little exploration could make it do some nifty things.
I feel like computers are always trying to make me do stuff now. Download this, install that, configure this, register that. As a Windows user I am so far removed from the actual programming that the programmers and hardware manufacturers are completely out of touch with my needs. A perfect example is that Keyboard and Mouse article on CNet that was just posted. Read the forums and you'll see that only ONE keyboard manufacturer (Kinesis) actual lives up to even a few of the REAL needs people have.
What I need is barely anything. I could use the internet with text-characters only for interface purposes. Hell, I could use my entire computer in text only, and I would if I wasnt so locked in to the decadent lifestyle that I live. I cant help but to depend on corporations for my computing needs, let alone my basic ones.
Justin Frankel is dead on in his assessment. Every aspect of the internet is now controlled by corporations that are gobbling up more and more internet landscape. If you cant connect to the internet without a corporate mediator, that is a problem. On these forums I would give the great majority of the people the respect to assume that they are aware of the problem of freedom of information. You guys all have good brains: so use them for something more valuable than money. Programs like WASTE are revolutionary in their ability to connect people securely. There is currently an effort to port it to linux, and there are many more things like this that need smart people like you guys.
You dont have to be a progammer either. I am finishing my degree this year and plan to go to Law School next year. I plan to dedicate my life to making information free and secure.
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:2, Insightful)
While we don't have a "killer" machine for learning programing, I've found my TI-86 to be a great starting point.
I don't know any programing languages (yet) but through messing around with my calculator, I've learned some of the basics. I don't know if that fills the void left by the Atari, but it's a step in the right direction.
On a side note, his "garage" sounds like the ultimate workshop. Add an arc welder, and it's heaven!
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, you take a geek genius, get him the hell out of the public school system as early as possible and let him do his own thing, he'll manage to "cut his geek teeth" somehow. His nature will see to it.
Keep him in that school system, drug him and send him to counseling until he fits into all the neat little rows and columns of the standarized test, standardized people state of mind that is the highest the mediocre thought processes of those that dream such up can muster, well, it doesn't matter after that what you give him to cut his teeth on. His teeth have been filed down to dull little stumps.
The equipment isn't the key, the enviroment is.
If you wish to protect the next generation of geek geniuses ( and do please bear in mind that "geek" doesn't mean "computer nerd") then do what you can to get them out of school and into a library.
Add a little peace and quiet and they'll manage the rest on their own just fine.
KFG
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:4, Interesting)
The only software that was ever purchased for my Atari 800XL was AtariWriter and Hardball. I wrote everything else myself and was never bored.
I would not be where I am today if I had not gotten that Atari as a kid.
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:2)
Re:How geniuses come to be (Score:2)
Absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
Poking around that machine taught wonders. Display lists and their interrupts, graphics modes and memory mapping for scrolling and such, the sound chip. Lots of fun hardware ready to play with.
The Atari did lots of interesting things, once you decided to hack around a bit. Joystick ports were bi-directional and latched if you wanted. Great for controlling things.
Most hardware has the really good bits hidden from the programmer. Today this is really true, given the API we almost all work through. (Not that this is a bad thing, it just is.) Back in the day, the Atari was unique in its design. The smarter you were, the more you could make the machine do --true for the game machine as well.
Many years later, people are still finding new ways to get those bits of hardware to do new and interesting things. No wonder people still hack the old machines. It is worth doing.
To me, this is what really appeals about OSS. The hardware hacks are not as common or necessary --to me at least. Hacking your OS to work a specific way is as good as using display list interrupts, creative display memory mapping and complementary colors displayed on alternate scan lines to double your horizontal screen resolution. (Yes, you can get an Atari to display 640x192, though it is a slow beast while doing it. Heck, if you had a broken TV that could display the entire NTSC signal, the Atari was capable of using almost the entire overscan if you wanted.)
Anyway, I only purchased a few pieces of software. MAC/65 -- Best damn assembler/editor/debugger ever for 8bit machines, Star Raiders, and Archon along with a few other disk games. Did the same thing others did. Wrote lots of interesting programs, learning at the same time.
(One nostalgic Atarian thinking about seeing if the old beast still boots!)
Middle ground, anybody? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just ONE advantage? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just ONE advantage? (Score:2)
Re:Just ONE advantage? (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Is international, where lawyers fear to tread
2) Goes where lobbyists can't
3) Google is the ultimate in advertising, and the way to get to the top is to have the public at large endorse you. No corporations advertised Napster, Gnutella, Kazaa, but they are incredibly popular in spit of that.
Tool of corporate control (Score:3, Insightful)
I am surprised Rolling Stone would cover this. Rolling Stone has evolved into a tool for corporate control.
Re:Tool of corporate control (Score:2, Interesting)
I'd say that RS enjoys pissing off the RIAA
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/5640
many thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess I'm just finding it rather humorous, and maybe a sign of fads/things to come where a programmer is in rolling stone.
Nullsoft (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's to Frankel!
It's the subversion thing (Score:5, Insightful)
The Internet subverts and/or disperses power. This frightens corporations, governments, and megamedia because it allows individual people to be who they want to be and it gives them a voice to express that. Worse, it lets them filter the corps and gubmit critters out. Radio and TV? Best you can do is flip the ads. I got almost all of 'em blocked on my browser no matter where I go.
On the Internet, name brand means nothing. Anything you can think of to force your trashy product down my throat, I can think of a way to step around or destroy it. Any way you can think of to try and control my behavior, I can think of a way to step around or destroy it.
Megamedia like CNN, MSNBC, etc. don't want you to get information from the Internet. On the Internet, information can be dissemented from trusted sources directly to the people who need or want to hear it. I remember talking to a guy in Kuwait during the war who was telling us about how things were. Media doesn't like that. They want to tell you how things are as they see it.
Corporates are screwed on the Internet. They can exert some level of control over the Web with advertising and laws, but, frankly, when it comes right down to it, what fucks them most is that people are free to get the information they want and control its flow from start to finish. If I want to proxy out corporate garbage, so be it. If I want to disseminate something you don't want me to disseminate, too bad (Diebold, anyone).
Subversion at its finest. I welcome it with open arms. It's about time people were given the opportunity to really think and act for themselves.
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:5, Insightful)
In theory, this is true. In practice, most people trust the same name brands online that they do offline, and thus type the URL's that are the names of companies that they like and trust. So while there are certainly many new and cool "independent" web sites, etc., morepeople go to CNN.com for news, TVGuide.com for TV listings and reviews, and so on. There are of course some exceptions (Google, Amazon). So while there is an opportunity for people to explore outside of the established brands, the mainstream users stick to brands that they know.
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:2)
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:2)
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:2)
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:3, Interesting)
Mega-Corps, yes they are such.
The government, likewise.
However, much of the media does genuinely try to give accurate reporting. Have you ever tried to give accurate reporting? It isn't easy.
Also, reporters must be wary. If they step on the wrong toes, they'll be tossed. Then, they can't get out any information. Thus, they are cautious about when they cross the line. Yes, many of them are bad. However, many of them are not.
The media is mostly contro
Re:It's the subversion thing (Score:2)
Is it really subversion? (Score:2, Insightful)
We censor ourselves, generally to those publications that agree with our own views. When was the last time you read research pages at Micro$oft? In the end, the only difference between the internet and traditional media is that the brands online are not as firmly established as in the 'real world'. Given enough time, this space will
How Ridiculous! (Score:2)
This couldn't be more wrong. What ten (or twenty or whatever) websites get the most traffic today? How much different is this list from a year ago? Two years ago? Sure, there are definitely differences, but much is the same. Why do people go to the same website over and over again? Does said website offer a unique service? Hardly, name any website that offers a unique service. No, they go because of the brand, whether that brand is Wal-Mart, Amazon, CNN, Google, The
Anyone been following Winamp? (Score:3, Interesting)
The latest version I have is 2.91 with md5sum:
68f0f87b12306939e7e3c7549db5df5f winamp291_full.exe
Is there anything newer? Why can't I find these on their web site? There's version 5 now available. What is this... slackware [slackware.com]?! (version jump)
Re:Anyone been following Winamp? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Anyone been following Winamp? (Score:5, Funny)
2 + 3 = 5 They're using Winamp's 2.x engine that allows 3.x skins to work with it.
That's what they say. Personally I think they didn't like the idea of Winamp 4 Skins.
Re:Anyone been following Winamp? (Score:2)
You've got to be kidding me! You apparently have no idea just how long Winamp 3 has been around. I downloaded a beta of it (Winamp 3) off their site a long, long time ago. If it wasn't ready with that long of a shelf-life, it never would have been.
Re:Anyone been following Winamp? (Score:3, Insightful)
ahh memories... (Score:3, Interesting)
When I heard aol bought nullsoft I was a little disappointed because I thought Frankel was a sellout and winamp would become bloated and lame. Frankel stayed cool as hell and winamp didn't become lame. Gnutella was the first decentralised file sharing/search network and it scared the shit out of corporations like aol. And he released it after he supposedly sold out. It was opensource. So Justin is still cool in my book. Who cares if he's rich? Shawn Fanning might be a moviestar now (Italian Job) but Frankel is the real revolutionary hacker.
Re:ahh memories... (Score:2)
Re:ahh memories... (Score:3, Informative)
Well, actually it wasn't open source...
Although there were messages that the source would be released "soon", the project was shut-down before the source was going to be released. So, all the Gnutella clients were completely reverse-engineered from the original, closed-source version.
So, Gnutella was technically not open-source.
Re:ahh memories... (Score:2)
Re:ahh memories... (Score:3, Interesting)
In a similar way think the cdparanoia author(s) is very deserving, all before winamp, before MP3...
I remember when I downloaded and compiled cdparanoia on my Amiga; ripped the first tune from a Disney disc for my new daughter. 8 bit, stereo, CD drives were fairly new, didn't necessarily support CDDA, no CD-Rs, no MP3, files were huge to have only several songs, but I KNEW it was only a matter of time before it was practical; I remember thinking that is was a cool new thing to make my CD collection more use
My Hero (Score:5, Interesting)
This man is one of my heroes.
He is pushing what America once was about, shedding the bonds of control on people. The original constitution and Bill of Rights were about removing the bonds government put on people, giving people the freedoms they deserved.
However, the government stopped being the threat: corporations took that over.
Justin Frankel is a new patriot, fighting in the true spirit of America, and battling against the corporations who are trying to dominate humanity. It has happened in the past. Monarchies ruled men. They were broken. Corporations replaced them. Now, they need to be broken.
We need more people fighting for human empowerment.
Re:When exactly did Government stop being THE thre (Score:3, Interesting)
While we already have some restrictions on the government (they've been slipping lately) we've got jack on the corps.
Hence, the reason to fight.
Also, there is no way for society to function without a government. If you can find a way, do tell. I do not see it, not in the world we live in. Corporations are a slightly different m
Rolling Stone slashdotted. (Score:2, Informative)
Rolling stone appears to be slashdotted, here's a mirror from the author's web site:
The World's Most Dangerous Geek [davidkushner.com]Link to the song mentioned in the article (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.blorp.com/music/Full%20Jams/031115-bren nankushner.mp3 [blorp.com]
waste sapproaching 3 million downloads. (Score:3, Informative)
P
Suspicious.... (Score:5, Funny)
Am I the only person that thinks these two items might be connected?
Actually, it sounds like he is the sort of person who would not need to cheat.
Don't get me wrong... (Score:2, Interesting)
Good for Frankey. (Score:2)
Winamp's a good thing. Gnutella was even better. I think that was his best project yet. The part of this state of affairs that I believe makes the RIAA so upset is that they do not control the technology, and given recent [eff.org] rulings [slashdot.org], containing the technology will prove difficult as well.
In fact, if anything, by decentralizing the technology, Frankel has helped the RIAA spend copious amounts of money on legal fees chasing individuals (I doubt the lawyers are working pro-bono. I also doubt that the entire
Need more "rebels" in the system (Score:4, Interesting)
Not to mention his antics, like releasing WASTE and getting AOL's panties all twisted up (by the way.. what WAS the point of that tool??
Ah well... I hope he puts his mind to good use and develops a truly anonymous P2P protocol on AOL's dollar. That'd be a very nice thing...
David Kushner (Score:4, Interesting)
where is he now? (Score:3, Interesting)
>>a sit-down with his boss and enthusiastically
>>return to a riskier way of life. This could
Where is he working now, has he actually left AOL? I see a lot of comments that he is gone, but last I heard he was still there and his words were:
I don't know when it will be, but I'm not going to last much longer.
Win-An Mp3 Player (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it's short for the Windows port of amp (An MP3 Player) for *nix.
My hero. (Score:2)
The song in the article (Score:2, Interesting)
(this is the same link in the paper version)
Subvert vs Circumvent - also, "piracy vs library"? (Score:2, Interesting)
It's interesting to hear slashdot discuss these matters, but I'm a little taken aback by the choice of wording.
Referring back to the text of the original post: "subvert corporate control." I'd like to point out that there's a difference between subverting and circumventing.
First, "subvert" has a slightly
This Line (Score:3, Insightful)
We have a word for that in the joint: rat-fink.
Another word we use is "shanked".
Justin himself seems a little schizo over the issue. On the one hand, Napster using their servers to promote file sharing is "wrong". On the other, Gnutella is "right". Make up your mind, Justin.
Justin has changed karaoke (Score:5, Interesting)
It's neat because we get to have AVS behind the lyrics. You used to have to buy an expensive JSUB unit if you wanted to "bluescreen" anything behind a CDG song.
We've been using the system for the last year or so. Customer response has been excellent. No more skipping or garbled words. No more confusion looking for songs. It just all runs perfectly.
Translation: (Score:2)
Half a billion?!? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Half a billion?!? (Score:5, Informative)
"He was paid in AOL stock, not dollars. What are 400 million pieces of toilet paper worth? Enough.
400 sheets of toilet paper (Kleenex Cottonelle) on amazon.com go for $3.65
400 million pieces of toilet paper = $3,650,000.
Re:No. 1 punk my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No. 1 punk my ass. (Score:3, Interesting)
Frankel, Carmack, Jobs, Gates. What do they all have in common? They all bet big on PC technology, and changed everyone's life in ways we take for granted today. One additional attribute: They all made a lot of money.
Of course there are a number of other people who have made huge contributions: Berners-Lee and Torvalds for example, but neither made big dollars from their ideas.
In other words, people like Frankel not only innovated, but they were paid quite well for their efforts. Now that's impressive. It
Re:Overhyped. (Score:5, Insightful)
to someone who contributes 2 lines of code to Apache perhaps but he is way more influential.
As for The Internet is not now, never has been, and never will be about celebrity status I can only suggest that if there is at least two humans involved then any communications channel will become about celebrity status.
What's next, an edgy piece on Marconi? You assume they didn't have them at the time. The early 20th century was not averse to gossip and hero worship. eg Lindeberg. How does this sentence sound
The Aeroplane is not now, never has been, and never will be about celebrity status. Lindy is no more important than someone who hands tools to the guy who is tuning Spirits engine before takeoff.
Yeah, what was his name again.
Re:Overhyped. (Score:4, Informative)
That would have been Charles Lindbergh. Then Lindy double checked the work himself. He also personally oversaw the design and construction of the Spirit personally.
Lindy was a remarkable man. You should read "We" sometime.
George Mallory was another remarkable man, even though he "failed." We don't normally admit that "failures" are remarkable men. George made it impossible not to.
I fully understand the concept that every member of a team is important. I've never understood why the last run batted in is hailed as the "winning run" when the first run batted in was just as much the winning run as any other. There is also certainly a kind of hero worship I find repulsive.
KFG
Re: Edgy piece on Marconi (Score:2, Interesting)
"Many scientists of the day believed that wireless waves travelled only in straight lines from the transmitter and hence range was restricted to line-of-sight. Marconi proved, however, that the curvature of the earth was not an obstacle for wireless telegraphy over great distances." ~ Marconi's Atlantic Leap [marconi.com]
In St. John's, Newfoundland in 1901 Guglielmo Marconi's kite received the letter "s", as transmitted in Morse Code from Cornwall, England.
AT&T, Verizon and AOL received $0.00.
The End
Re:Overhyped. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm always interested to hear what he's doing, since he's usually coding in the unheard of places that the rest of us will be talking about as having been totally obvious next year.
Influence != Celebrity (Score:2)
The point is not that he's a celebrity (because he's really not), but that he's influential. Like Leibniz, or Fourier, or any of those other brutally important innovators that most haven't heard of.
But yes, "there's no end to the good you can do if you don't care who gets credit." Celebrity certainly doesn't equal importance, but nei
Re:Overhyped. (Score:2)
I'd buy a copy to read that!
Re:Just another programmer (Score:2)
I'd been doing live mp3 radio with mp3serv for over a year before Shoutcast appeared.
Still I like the guy.
Re:Just another programmer (Score:5, Insightful)
Hell, my freshman year in high school, just as MP3s were starting their climb to popularity a large question was "What player do we use for em?" and the ONLY answer you would EVER get is "Winamp." Hell, I know some people who thought MP3s were exclusive to Winamp, because no one would even TALK about an alternative to Winamp. Still till this day it works fantasticly, and with Winamp 5 it's even a better VIDEO player than WMP, which I had used for my video needs. It's now the only media player I have on my computer short of PowerDVD.
You could say simlar things about John Carmack. Sure, the guy wasn't the first with 3d engines, but he sure as hell is the best at em.
Re:Just another programmer (Score:2)
Ok, but gnutella really was an innovation (albeit the obvious one). Namely, it was really peer-to-peer. Napster relied on a central server.
Re:The internet? (Score:2, Funny)
It's pretty cool... when it's up, that is. Seems like every weekend lately it's been shut down for cleaning...
Re:I was wondering why he still worked there... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because they're holding his baby(WinAmp) hostage. He leaves, then winamp is theirs to reassign to Joe Newbiecoder (or the indian name for 'joe'). If he stays he atleast gets to play with his baby and make sure it doesnt get too detestable.