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Handhelds AMD Hardware

AMD Demonstrates Linux-Based PDA at LinuxWorld 144

Posted by timothy from the continuing-to-fail-to-fail dept.
Misha writes "AMD has demonstrated a new Linux-based handheld at LinuxWorld. The OpenPDA runs on low-power Alchemy chips, with support for USB, Ethernet, UARTS. Here is press release. Among the highlights are: A comprehensive Metrowerks suit as the basis of OpenPDA applications, Qt, Java, Opera browser."
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AMD Demonstrates Linux-Based PDA at LinuxWorld More

AMD Demonstrates Linux-Based PDA at LinuxWorld

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  • Hmmm. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by James A. A. Joyce ( 681634 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:03PM (#6621591) Journal
    This article reads like an advert to me, is packed with buzzwords and doesn't really give any details beyond that it'll be demonstrated at LinxuWorld, booth 647 today and tomorrow. Could those more informed than I enlighten me as to what advantages does this have over current portable Linux system? Or have insufficient details been released?
    • "This article reads like an advert to me, is packed with buzzwords"

      Maybe because it's a press release? hmmm

      But seriously, someone else posted links to some better reviews in another thread.

    • Re:Hmmm. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by softweyr ( 2380 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:32PM (#6621817) Homepage
      Battery life. Check out the power consumption specs on the Alchemy processors, they're way down there, even compared to ARM cpus. I have a Zaurus SL-5500 I used for daily appointment keeping, address book, game playing, and as an MP3 player in my car and at work, and the 8-hour battery life isn't enough. Lower power is better.

      I don't know if this will be a useful device on it's own; AMD creates these things as reference/demo designs to get people to jump on the bandwagon and make commercial products, but I really like my Zaurus. Some competition in this arena, to drive functionality up and cost down, would help make a better Personal Geek Assistant (PGA).

      • Eight hours? I was lucky to get 4-5. Thanks to my new Clie PEG-TG50, now I get *days*. The Zaurus is nice but there are so many forks (offical 2.38, official 3.10, Opie, TKC to name a few) that trying to do anything aside from basic functionality is now a serious headfuck.

        It would be nice if one of them got adopted by a major distro so some semblance of standardisation in sync apps as well as pda software itself could be reached.

        I'm sticking with Palm for now, especially until bluetooth becomes as easy as

    • Re:Hmmm. (Score:2, Funny)

      by Alien Being ( 18488 )
      DRTFA

    • This article reads like an advert to me

      I think the phrase "press release" gives the clue. It is an advert.

  • Handheld? Or just a simulator? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:03PM (#6621594) Homepage Journal
    The submission may a bit wrong. According to the linked release, they're running Linux on a (assumably PC-based) simulator, or perhaps their PDA simulator is running on Linux?

    AMD (NYSE: AMD) today demonstrates OpenPDA, a Linux technology-based software platform running on the latest version of the AMD Alchemy(tm) Solutions Mobile Handheld Reference Design Kit (RDK).

    I don't see any reference to a handheld device -- just to a "software platform". My read of the info was that it was like the Palm OS PC-based simulator.

    Or did I miss something?
    • hmmmm ....
      AMD Alchemy(tm) Solutions Mobile !!!Handheld!!!!! Reference Design Kit (RDK).
      • AMD Alchemy(tm) Solutions Mobile !!!Handheld!!!!! Reference Design Kit (RDK).

        But I'm still confused -- and hoping I'm wrong. But it looks like it can be read both ways:

        Handheld Reference Design Kit = a Handheld Kit for Reference Design

        - or -

        Handheld Reference Design Kit = a Reference Design Kit for Handhelds

        If it turns out I'm way off the mark, hopefully the moderators will put the kibosh on my original post. Karma to burn, baby!
        • Keep in mind what AMD is trying to sell here - they don't sell linux, OpenPDA or otherwise. They sell hardware. And the only way to sell hardware is to show the hardware running software, decently. What you probably get is something that looks more like an old Apple (i.e., screwed to a piece of plywood) than a Palm Tungsten - it probably comes in an openable plastic case (they don't sell the case, either) that looks like a box with a screen and some buttons. After all, they're selling the guts, it's up

    • Re:Handheld? Or just a simulator? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:38PM (#6621875)
      The Alchemy reference board is a huge honking 1'x1'6" piece of hardware with a tiny QVGA touchscreen and a blazing MIPS processor.

      If it weren't that it takes up so much desk space, I wouldn't have anything to complain about. It blows away every XScale-based RDK I've seen so far (even the latest 255 and 260-based boards).

      The Linux that is running on it, is just some stuff thrown together to run on the hardware. AMD is interested in selling Alchemy licenses, so they've already got WinCE and Linux running on the RDK. Next up, NetBSD or iTRON, I guess.

      • Re:Handheld? Or just a simulator? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <revaaron AT hotmail DOT com> on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @11:57PM (#6623019) Homepage
        Roughly, what is the performance of a 400 MHz Alchemy performance compared to a 400 MHz PXA255 XScale at 400 MHz? Do the Alchemy CPUs have an FPU?

        I'm lucky enough to own one of the new C760 Zauruses- the 400 MHz PXA255 combined with a 100 MHz (!!) bus, it's a really fast machine- especially compared to the really slow (30 MHz or so?) buses found in most other PDAs with similar CPUs. I wish it ran WinCE rather than Linux, but soon enough, it won't be an issue. I'm always interested in hearing about possible advances in the speed of my PDA- which these days is my main computer.

        First the Newton MP2100, then the Jornada 720, and now the Zaurus SL-C760... With PDAs like these, I don't need a "real" computer for much!
        • Most 400 MHz Xscale-based Pocket PCs 2000 and 2002 have a 100 MHz bus, and 206 MHz StrongARMs have a 103 MHz bus. The latest PPC 2003 models based on Xscale are faster partly because of a yet faster bus.

          The days of 30 MHz buses are long behind us.

          -Martin

          • 206 MHz StrongARMs have a 103 MHz bus. The latest PPC 2003 models based on Xscale are faster partly because of a yet faster bus.

            It's been a while since I've checked extensively, but most of the 206 MHz StrongARM models I looked up had 30 MHz memory buses, one exception being the Jornada 720, which had a 51 MHz memory bus... It was something signifigant and they put it on the box. (Oooh, super fast memory bus!)

            It's good to hear that the newer 400 MHz XScale PDAs have a faster bus now a days.
    • Software platform is the SOFTWARE, it still needs HARDWARE to run. The software platform is the OpenPDA, and the hardware is Alchemy
    • The RDK is a reference hardware platform. Not sure if it's the same size as a PDA, but it's not an emulator.

  • Articles (Score:5, Informative)

    by NETHED ( 258016 ) * on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:04PM (#6621597) Homepage
    Here are some articles of merit about this PDA.

    Here [pcpro.co.uk]

    Here [linuxdevices.com]

    and here [mobilemag.com]

  • PDA Power (Score:3, Informative)

    by Solokron ( 198043 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:05PM (#6621609) Homepage
    The combination of the OpenPDA suite and the Au1100 processor sounds like a fantastic combo for the PDA market in opening new doors and ideas. "The Au1100 processor is a MIPS32(TM) technology-based system on a chip (SOC) processor, and is available at speeds of 333MHz, and 400 MHz with power dissipations of less than 200 milliwatts and 250 milliwatts respectively."

  • buzzword compliant (Score:5, Funny)

    by gfody ( 514448 ) * on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:06PM (#6621616)
    AMD seems to be using the buzzwords that attract geeks ("linux", "open", any cpu that isn't pentium or athlon) instead of buzzwords that attract money ("XML", ".NET") although they do mention "java" but I think that one detracts from both sides of the buzzword fanbase

    • Re:buzzword compliant (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yeah, I'm sure it's a conspiracy because they are not including a x86 compatible chip in the PDA design. On the other hand, I'd love to see how many minutes (or seconds) a PDA designed with a PIV will last before the CPU overheats, the reviewer's hand sears off, or the battery is fully drained, whichever comes first.

    • Uh (Score:2)

      by autopr0n ( 534291 )
      Java is pretty big in the moble market, dude. Probably bigger then Wince.

  • Cost (Score:5, Funny)

    by Erick the Red ( 684990 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:06PM (#6621617)
    Of course SCO is going to want $699 added to the price.

    • or how i learned to love the karmawhoring (Score:4, Funny)

      by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:23PM (#6621747) Journal
      Remember, In SCO $699 owns LICENSE!

      1) $699 License
      2) ???
      3) PROFIT!

      Pour hot $699 down Natalie Portman's SCO!

      others?
    • Actually its only $32, but I get the point.

      What is the cost of the License?
      The promotional fee for the client (desktop) license is $199.

      The promotional fees for server licenses are:

      Right to use SCO IP in a Linux distribution
      Promotional License Fee

      The promotional license fee for embedded devices is $32 per device.

      http://www.sco.com/scosource/linuxlicensefaq.htm l
    • Of course SCO is going to want $699 added to the price.

      Why, because this PDA's Linux kernel has the Enterprise features that SCO owns?

      Hey, well, since it's a PDA, SCO will lower their license price to only $666.

  • Looks like a Zaurus, quacks like a Zaurus (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RDPIII ( 586736 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:09PM (#6621643) Journal
    but doesn't use Intel components. The description of the software components is strikingly similar to that of the Sharp Zaurus 5x00 series. If it's cheaper than the Zaurus, I might consider buying one. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to include some of the hardware that's not standardly available on the Zaurus, most importantly 802.11b. What a shame.

  • Suit? (Score:3, Funny)

    by batkins ( 602341 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:11PM (#6621655) Homepage
    A suit? That'll be handy.

    "Hey, are you just gonna walk into this meeting in jeans and a t-shirt?"

    "Actually, no - I've got a suit right......here!"

  • SCO adds $32 to the price... (Score:4, Informative)

    by emacnabber ( 682085 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:12PM (#6621665)

    Well, expect to pay a little more thanks to McBride and Thugs...

    According to http://www.sco.com/scosource/linuxlicensefaq.html [sco.com] "The promotional license fee for embedded devices is $32 per device."

    Yet another reason SCO needs to burn...

  • Question (Score:1, Interesting)

    by tmark ( 230091 )
    Does it function in the grand tradition of AMD products and also double as a space-heater ?

    • Space heater? Hardly. (Score:4, Informative)

      by LionMage ( 318500 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:32PM (#6621816) Homepage
      I'm assuming that you're not trolling or posting flamebait. (You might have been trying to get a funny moderation, but I don't find your post that funny, personally.)

      According to the press release, the Au1100 processor is based on the MIPS processor architecture, which is used in many embedded applications and devices. Most MIPS chips are very power miserly, and hence, don't generate a lot of heat. Bottom line, I doubt this device will function as a space heater, as you suggest.
      • Christ...I think you forgot your sense of humor somewhere....

        He was just trying to make light of the fact that traditionally, AMD CPUs (at least of the x86 variety since the K6) have generated very large amounts of heat. Don't believe me...go ahead, check their specs. [amd.com].

        He wasn't trolling, just being funny, but apparently you missed that.
      • hey, guess what. AMD CPUs generate no more heat that intel chips(since P4). Claimed and Actual heat dissipation is two different things, one is the truth, and the other is bullsh*t.

        Intel claims bullshit is what im saying.
      • It is just a joke based on AMDs history of making very hot chips.

        Now, My last AMD(and I mean that both ways) was an 1400. It is hot, sure it doesn't exceeded its own specs, but its heat causes the case to become very hot and cause other chips to get hotter then there specs. I lost a N. Bridge chip due to heat from AMDs grill^H^H^H^H processor.

        It is very possible that there newer chips are cooler, I don't know.

        And you should not have to add a bunch of extra fans, a degree in Physical sciences and have wri
      • Actually, the Au1100 is made for lower power consumption, but it's "big" brother, the Au1500 (spezialized in multimedia applications) gets well hot. I don't know if you could easily put that in a PDA. Works very well though, fast and stable.
    • ...at speeds of 333MHz, and 400 MHz with power dissipations of less than 200 milliwatts and 250 milliwatts respectively.
      I don't think that could heat my left nut.
    • This may come as a shock to you, but Intel-CPU's generate as much (if not more) heat as AMD-CPU's do.

  • Perhaps I'm out of it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kapok_tree ( 670008 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:14PM (#6621679)
    But I think the best thing about this is the increased integration with the PC platform. The specs read like a low-end PC, and the applications available seem about the same. What this means to me is that a PDA running OPENPDA will function less like a separate platform, and more like a piece of my network. I wonder if eventually PDAs will render laptops obsolete - or, rather, if PDAs and laptops will converge.
    • I wonder if eventually PDAs will render laptops obsolete - or, rather, if PDAs and laptops will converge.

      I personally believe that PDAs, laptops and cellphones will eventually converge, and I hope that the bad joke called Microsoft Smartphone doesn't stop that.
    • Why should that happen?

      PDAs are built for size. Laptops are built to provide you with a full blown PC that you can carry.

      There is no way that I want to carry around a 12" PDA, or be forced to type a report on a 2" screen.
      • What if you oculd have a pocket device with a fold-out screen - or maybe a HUD that simulates a very large screen? The itnerface is certainly an issue, but there are possible workarounds. Eventually, it will become possible to carry the equivalent of a computer in an item the size of a pack of cigarettes or less. At that point the PDA as an appliance will likely be obsolete.
        • At that poiny the PDA as an appliance will likely be obsolete.

          Nah, it would just have more features, but the basic functionality will likely remain. The only thing that might disappear is the architectural distinctions.
    • PDAs and laptops have converged into one form, it is called the tablet based pc. Perhaps you meant to be more specific and say into a smaller form than the laptop.
    • I wonder if eventually PDAs will render laptops obsolete - or, rather, if PDAs and laptops will converge.

      Not for a while, at least. If you still need a 14" screen (for all the GUI design stuff), a >30 GB HDD (for all the big databases, etc.), and portability (to use it all at a client's - or to play games on the road ;), then laptops are the only way to do it. But if you're looking for instant-on, PIM functionality, and a text-based development environment (and MAME ;), we're there. Put the two toge
  • ...is a proof of courage, silliness or both nowadays, and I personally hope it's a proof of courage. Go AMD!

  • Talk about redundant... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This story was all ready posted over 30 years ago!

    HERE [slashdot.org] is the article.

    And here [slashdot.org] is where i found it :) scroll down to the bottom

    There's something weird going on here...

  • oh no! (Score:3, Funny)

    by cygnus ( 17101 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:42PM (#6621901) Homepage
    Among the highlights are: A comprehensive Metrowerks suit

    oh noes! not another Linux lawsuit....

  • No devices, just a reference design and dev kit. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WoTG ( 610710 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:43PM (#6621907) Homepage Journal
    Like a couple others have already posted, there is no actual product being launched for the end user! This seems to provide a good reference platform and development tools for groups looking to create their own non-Palm, non-MS handhelds. If no manufacturers pick up the designs, we may never see this "OpenPDA" platform in use. On the other hand, if just a handful of firms decide to base a product on the platform, we might see a standardized Linux based palm top platform develop to compete with Palm and MS PocketPC.

    I've never seen a Zaurus first hand, so I have no idea how it compares to "OpenPDA" in the grand scheme of things...

    • The new Zaurii are OpenPDA.

      I've got a stunning Zaurus SL-C750 which uses OpenPDA (see the official spec [ezaurus.com] and check out this quote from this article [linuxdevices.com]:

      "Sharp Electronics, the first OpenPDA licensee, had originally included Lineo's Embedix PDA software stack in the Zaurus. But when Embedix was subsequently acquired by Metrowerks last December, Sharp migrated to OpenPDA, which is similar in many respects to Embedix, especially in its inclusion of the Qtopia GUI framework and PDA app-suite, Opera web browser, and Jeode JVM. Additional OpenPDA licensees will be announced soon, Metrowerks said."

  • If it aint got bluetooth to talk to my phone (and through my phone the world) then its a wanky toy.

    independent GPRS i could just about go for, but failing that bluetooth.

  • technology overkill if you ask me. Ive got a handheld organiser which is space efficient, competitively priced, theoretically infinite storage, its components recycle well, and it uses minimum power. Its not quite multimedia but I use it for all the killer apps -- address book, organiser, calendar and diary.
    Its called a sheet of paper.
  • Now if only someone would make a cheap PDA other than Palm that plays nice with my Mac. Just wishful thinking, move along, nothing to see here.
  • AMD seems on the cool mood but now that we have tablet PCs, PDA lags. I mean, it will when a Tablet PC with ATI mobility vidchip will come out.

  • How about trying something completely silly? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ratfynk ( 456467 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @12:33AM (#6623220) Journal
    What would be really cool is if an SMP version of these processors could happen. Just imagine a 4 processor laptop version using lowpower SMP. I wonder if anybody has thought about this possibility.
    • Just imagine a 4 processor laptop version using lowpower SMP.

      I've thought about things like that myself, but it appears that a single fast processor eats less power, and puts off less heat than multiple slower processors that would equal the same performance.

      If you find any exceptions to that rule, I'd like to check them out.

  • it's not going to work (Score:4, Interesting)

    by 73939133 ( 676561 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @12:57AM (#6623323)
    I have really tried hard to like any of the Linux PDAs and I use Linux everywhere else, but they simply aren't competitive as mainstream PDAs; a $99 Zire makes a better PDA than any of the much bulkier and more costly Linux PDAs.

    What Linux PDAs need is a completely newly designed GUI, designed specifically for small screen devices, not some adaptation of toolkits that originated on desktops (Qt, Gtk+, Java).

  • Please don't say things in the headlines like "Metroworks suit". I'm thinking to myself, first SCO, and now this?

    (It's spelled "suite", and pronounced sweet, not soot.)

  • But I wonder, have there been any problems at linux world, I wonder because I see SCO, RedHat, and IBM are all there on the Exibits List.

    Are folks walking by the SCO booth and giving nasty glares? Spitballs? Is SCO giving away any free stuff? Have they left? Has anyone challenged to meet em in the parking lot? j/k on the last one ;o)
  • Among the highlights are: A comprehensive Metrowerks suit as the basis of OpenPDA applications

    While a lawsuit from Metrowerks might be interesting, I wouldn't call it a "highlight," my gramatically-challenged Slashdot editors.

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